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Old November 19th, 2004, 07:23 AM   #91
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Ah.... but there is the differance. Disney does CARTOONS.

I'm assuming you, like many many people, see cartoons as for kids. But oh contraire!

Real anime does not fit the cartoon label. In japan, they have a weaker live action film industry. Blame that on literally less box office seats available in japan's smaller population. Smaller population, less box office tickets sold, less revenue, lower film profits. Less money to make feature films.

That's why anime is so varied. It replaces traditional live action films.

Take anime films like Perfect Blue. Its about a woman that is stalked, hunted, and raped. That's not exactly a Disney cartoon.



You would probably love anime. Just weed out the "cartoon anime" first.
Which is why many anime is bastardizised and messed up when U.S. stations and networks buy'em up.

Battle of the Planets was one of the first casualties of changes made to original Japanese Animes. Some Animes benefit from changes, some do not. Even Speed Racer, Astroboy have cuts. Robotech is made up of Macross, Southern Cross and a little known Anime called Galaxy Climber Mospeda. Dragonball, DB:Z and DB:GT are all toned down. I don't know where to begin with Gundam but its huge. "Cut's" it looks like will always be apert of western culture cos certain things from other places just don't mix well in other societies. Even though many Anime movies and series are plagued with stupid cuts! Made by sensitive westerners.

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Originally Posted by potemkin
The first anime i ever saw Akira, well lets just say that i could not believe what they did it was a real eye opener.



It was an eye opener alright.

But the story seemed a tad convoluted to me.

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Thats cos we need to get the huge volumes of 'Akira'. While the Anime was great, the Manga gives you the full uncut vision of Akira.

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Old November 19th, 2004, 07:46 AM   #92
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Kingjason is right.

It's culture clashing that causes a lot of anime to get cut up, or changed somehow over here in the states.

I hate to bring up kiddie anime, but I found this to be the perfect example:

In Japan, Pokemon has different character traits for James of Team Rocket. In Japan, the character of James is a cross-dresser by habit. That would not fly apparently over here in the US on broadcast television at least.

Just a small example of how cultures often dictate what gets broadcast, changed, cut up, rearranged, mangled, dangled, diced, sliced, drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, hung until dead, and beheaded. (gassssppp wheeeezzee!)

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KJ, I will try to check out the manga of Akira when I can. Thanks for the headsup.
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Old November 19th, 2004, 07:59 AM   #93
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Lord Kingjason

Battle of the Planets was one of the first casualties of changes made to original Japanese Animes. Some Animes benefit from changes, some do not. Even Speed Racer, Astroboy have cuts. Robotech is made up of Macross, Southern Cross and a little known Anime called Galaxy Climber Mospeda. Dragonball, DB:Z and DB:GT are all toned down. I don't know where to begin with Gundam but its huge. "Cut's" it looks like will always be apert of western culture cos certain things from other places just don't mix well in other societies. Even though many Anime movies and series are plagued with stupid cuts! Made by sensitive westerners.
Yes I got the Battle of the Planets box set and It has been cut to bits, anyone hurt or killed is nicely explaned away by 7-zark-7 (or the R2D2 want to be).

But I also think that if any animation undertaken by members of CF would keep the style of the original series and that is not that graghic or Violent in any way.
ok the "Murder on the rising star" is the only one that I can remember someone being knocked off.


David Moss can and does produce some great stuff alone and just for fun surly
a group of us and develop something and keep it watchable??


just a few thoughts
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Old November 19th, 2004, 08:10 AM   #94
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I didn’t mean to include anime in with cartoons. I noticed that many here were reacting to the term “animation” to mean cartoon like. CGI is not CARTOONS, we see so much of it in regular programming today.

What I was trying to suggest is with a pure CGI effort we can do for ourselves what the studios will not do. Richard has proven, a quality production can be done on a shoe string budget.

There is of course some risk involved, by pushing the boundaries of CGI film making, we run the risk of actually succeeding.
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Old November 19th, 2004, 08:41 AM   #95
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perhaps we should list the thing that we like as hobbie or our jobs to see what the person and can help with / would like to do.

Like I have Started learning Truespace which can do CGI as far as i know and I am also getting my hands on 3d studo MAX (I hope in the new year).

perhaps be involved in design, story idea etc , I don now how good I am or will be, but I would like to play a part, but as I said I have yet a lot to learn about
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Old November 19th, 2004, 10:16 AM   #96
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I know I’m pushing this project thing a bit but I have grown tired of waiting for some else to do what they say they want to do. Glen has been talking about doing a movie for 15 years or more, Tom DeSanto started to do one, but had it fall apart. Now every time I hear about Tom, he has a new project or more new projects and Battlestar Galactica has been push further back. This just tells me he has little or no control and is not going to able to do anything in the foreseeable future.

I think it is time for the fans to make a move. CFF demonstrated the fans can work together to make things happen, the Sacpers did it and got a great ending for their show. So why can’t we?

I know we have the talent, just look around. We have the desire, we’re here aren’t we? But do we have the will? Are we just all just talk?

Now I’m going to put my neck on the line here. I want to see some action. I’ll start as the center of contact, project manager if you like. I do this professionally so why not here.

If you are really interested in working on a project then contact me, give a brief bio on your background and any ideas you may have. There are no dumb ideas or bad ideas. And no one here is without talent, so PM me or Email me repcisg@earthlink.net.

I want to see my mailbox full of volunteers!

Martok, Potemkin, you two are on my list!
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Old November 19th, 2004, 10:21 AM   #97
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Rep....let's get ta steppin with some story ideas then. I will email you very soon. I am still working on my teaser for Dark Exodus...which won't be too much longer.

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Old November 19th, 2004, 10:43 AM   #98
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Old November 19th, 2004, 10:49 AM   #99
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You will see some mail from me very soon too!

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Old November 19th, 2004, 11:20 AM   #100
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Same here, rep!
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Old November 19th, 2004, 11:30 AM   #101
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There is also the 'Tales From The Fleet' anthology concept. Where you could tell stories of the refugees...

Good idea? Bad? Only your psychiatrist knows for sure.
sounds like a winner!
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Old November 19th, 2004, 02:10 PM   #102
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BTW, one thing I noticed here was alot of people kept making a point that any continuation of TOS would have to have "adult" stories. After G80 I can understand this concern, but what defines an "adult" story. Would that mean you'd want Starbuck to have a four-way with Athena, Sheba, and Cassie?

While I wouldn't define TOS as "kiddie", I wouldn't define it totally as "adult" either. I'd compare it to things like "Star Wars", and "Harry Potter", that appeal most to children, but aren't so childish that adults can't enjoy them. No offence but the moment you take TOS too seriously, is the moment it dies. But keep the right balance of seriousness and escapism, and you've got a winner.
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Old November 19th, 2004, 02:39 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustex
BTW, one thing I noticed here was alot of people kept making a point that any continuation of TOS would have to have "adult" stories. After G80 I can understand this concern, but what defines an "adult" story. Would that mean you'd want Starbuck to have a four-way with Athena, Sheba, and Cassie?

While I wouldn't define TOS as "kiddie", I wouldn't define it totally as "adult" either. I'd compare it to things like "Star Wars", and "Harry Potter", that appeal most to children, but aren't so childish that adults can't enjoy them. No offence but the moment you take TOS too seriously, is the moment it dies. But keep the right balance of seriousness and escapism, and you've got a winner.
I don't think anybody means that kind of "adult", Mustex...



I think the last sentence of your post says it best.

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Old November 19th, 2004, 02:52 PM   #104
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<<But keep the right balance of seriousness and escapism, and you've got a winner.>>

Exactly!
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Old November 19th, 2004, 03:56 PM   #105
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hey Rep, I'm understanding your view a little bit more. Thank you. But I'm wondering what kind of character design are you thinking is reasnable?

Is the obvious cg designs of videogames too cartoony? The Final Fantasy Movie had some hyper realistic moments, but was a little stiff overall due to budget/time problems.

Personally I love the Final Fantasy game look.
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Old November 19th, 2004, 07:30 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustex
BTW, one thing I noticed here was alot of people kept making a point that any continuation of TOS would have to have "adult" stories. After G80 I can understand this concern, but what defines an "adult" story. Would that mean you'd want Starbuck to have a four-way with Athena, Sheba, and Cassie?

While I wouldn't define TOS as "kiddie", I wouldn't define it totally as "adult" either. I'd compare it to things like "Star Wars", and "Harry Potter", that appeal most to children, but aren't so childish that adults can't enjoy them. No offence but the moment you take TOS too seriously, is the moment it dies. But keep the right balance of seriousness and escapism, and you've got a winner.

Indeed. very well stated, Mustex.


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Old November 19th, 2004, 07:43 PM   #107
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yup. That was good.

THough I wouldn't want to see a four-way. And as most would point out, Sheba had a thing for the other guy. There were a few other girls who liked Starbuck though in various episodes.

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Old November 19th, 2004, 08:02 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustex
BTW, one thing I noticed here was alot of people kept making a point that any continuation of TOS would have to have "adult" stories. After G80 I can understand this concern, but what defines an "adult" story. Would that mean you'd want Starbuck to have a four-way with Athena, Sheba, and Cassie?
A possible turn-off, for some folks, may have been Boxey and Muffit. Personally, I think that both would work very well in a show, given the right type of storyline. Sometimes, children are the educators. They see things in a different way than adults and some times with much more clarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustex
While I wouldn't define TOS as "kiddie", I wouldn't define it totally as "adult" either. I'd compare it to things like "Star Wars", and "Harry Potter", that appeal most to children, but aren't so childish that adults can't enjoy them. No offence but the moment you take TOS too seriously, is the moment it dies. But keep the right balance of seriousness and escapism, and you've got a winner.
I couldn't agree more. I'd include the Lord of the Rings trilogy in that group, as well.

Good words, Mustex.

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Old November 19th, 2004, 08:19 PM   #109
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I think Boxey provided some great scenes with Adama and Apollo. And when Boxey was worried and everyone looked after him.

But Muffit or Boxey saving the day was annoying the same way Wesley Crusher was annoying.

That said, I would have enjoyed this scene:

Quote:
DANGER TIME!!!!

Starbuck and Apollo are dismantling a bomb aboard the Galactica. The fate of all of humanity rests on them! If the bomb goes off, there goes the ship, and the last hope to save all of humanity from the cylons!

With nervous shaking hands they take the bomb apart, piece by piece. Until they are left with a critical choice of two identical wires. But they don't know which to cut!!!! Time is running out!!!

10

9

8

7

6


5

4

In walks Boxey and Muffit. Not realizing what was at stake, but hearing just enough, Boxey grabs a spare cutter and snips a wire for them.

Boxey and Muffit go off to play. Apollo and Starbuck have a Coronary, or a good laugh!
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Old November 19th, 2004, 11:48 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by thomas7g
I think Boxey provided some great scenes with Adama and Apollo. And when Boxey was worried and everyone looked after him.

But Muffit or Boxey saving the day was annoying the same way Wesley Crusher was annoying.

That said, I would have enjoyed this scene:
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Old November 20th, 2004, 07:34 AM   #111
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Tom,

I’m not married to a particular style of character, this isn’t just for me. I have noticed many do like the warrior girl on our home page. I know it took a fair amount of work to do but that on one possible starting place.

Anime is another, most Americans have seen the kiddy versions of anime and may be turned off by it. But then King of the Hill and the Simpson’s are considered adult fair, so go figure.

I think will need to experiment a little to find a style that fits best. So perhaps you and Warrior and some of our other artist can put on your thinking caps demo a few different styles. I’m not looking for anything elaborate, just samples.

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Old November 20th, 2004, 07:37 AM   #112
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Something I would like you all to consider and comment on - what time frame are you interested in?

Just after the last episode.

10 years later.

20 years later?

A whole new generation?
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Old November 20th, 2004, 08:19 AM   #113
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Well, if we wanted to hire voice actors for Adama and Baltar, we could have it take place right after Hand of God.

We could creatively find ways to bring people who are new to Classic Galactica up to speed on past events in the story ( Flashbacks, Adama Journals, etc,) without having to say "You must see the entire Classic series in order to know where we're going." Somehow, we have to manage to keep it fresh, while still drawing on necessary continuity occasionally.

Ideally, a new viewer should not have to have seen much of the classic live action show to grasp the new storyline. (However, when they do watch the classic episodes, the animated episodes will click for them even more.) The logic they deduce between the live show and the animated stories should come seamlessly, but not require them to go: "Wait, I don't understand this....do I have to watch the classic eps for the sake of understanding this episode?"

But. the idea IS to get them to appreciate the classic show. The animated eps may intrigue them to watch the classic shows. Awareness of the original series through an animated series helps to heighten further awareness for the larger, big screen, live -action continuation effort.

Ideally, I think right after the Hand of God is good.

On the other hand, if we do a series that is 10 yahrens down the road for the fleet, we can introduce a new generation of characters, while characters like Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer, and such have attained the upper echelons of command on the Galactica.

My God, this has soooo many possibilities.

I think Thomas' Warrior Girl sets a great inspiration for the look.

Respectfully, and AFU (all fired up)
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Old November 20th, 2004, 10:26 AM   #114
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One of the things I think we should tackle is a good Baltar back story , How the Cylons made contact / tricked / manipulated him into betraying the human race.
And even after the colonies fell he remains in their service.
Was he brain washed.
Was he implanted with some device. (Although this is been used in the new show
I like the Idea)
or is he just a head banger with delusions. ???
whatever it is I think that it should be looked at as part of the story build up?


Quote:
Ideally, I think right after the Hand of God is good.

On the other hand, if we do a series that is 10 yahrens down the road for the fleet, we can introduce a new generation of characters, while characters like Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer, and such have attained the upper echelons of command on the Galactica.

My God, this has soooo many possibilities.
ho yes at the moment I am reading your story Dark Exodus to see your style and I like what I have read so far Martok
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Old November 20th, 2004, 12:06 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas7g
hey Rep, I'm understanding your view a little bit more. Thank you. But I'm wondering what kind of character design are you thinking is reasnable?

Is the obvious cg designs of videogames too cartoony? The Final Fantasy Movie had some hyper realistic moments, but was a little stiff overall due to budget/time problems.

Personally I love the Final Fantasy game look.
Once again I feel I'm being overly repetitive, but have you ever seen "Zoids". While the show itself is entirely kiddy (including "Chaotic Century", which was better, but still annoyed me because they gave people great death scenes, and then brought them back shortly thereafter with little or no explanation), the animation style was perfect.
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Old November 20th, 2004, 12:12 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
A possible turn-off, for some folks, may have been Boxey and Muffit. Personally, I think that both would work very well in a show, given the right type of storyline. Sometimes, children are the educators. They see things in a different way than adults and some times with much more clarity.



I couldn't agree more. I'd include the Lord of the Rings trilogy in that group, as well.

Good words, Mustex.

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Well if you mean the movies then yes, but if you mean the LOTR books I'd include them in the "GET THAT PIECE OF ANNOYING, OVERWRITTEN TRASH ONLY A COMPLETE BLOWHARD COULD COME UP WITH AWAY FROM ME!" category.
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Old November 20th, 2004, 12:15 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repcisg
Something I would like you all to consider and comment on - what time frame are you interested in?

Just after the last episode.

10 years later.

20 years later?

A whole new generation?
Technically 20 years is a generation.
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Old November 20th, 2004, 03:27 PM   #118
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Quote:
martok2112 wrote:
I think Thomas' Warrior Girl sets a great inspiration for the look.
Yes the Warrior girl is a great look once the style is picked we can then develop
things further and build the rest around the characters.

perhaps if Thomas did some quick drawing showing samples of Apollo and Starbuck in the style as warrior girl and post them so that those of us who have some drawing skill can learn that style and applie it.
Its just a thought as many of us live in differant parts of the world and can't easly
communicate as persons face to face this is some thing that could cause problems
in , productivity the speed, the look,
perhaps a manual should be put together over the next few months that we can
design to make thing easer,

I was a fare penciler when I was younger.


what do you think
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Old November 20th, 2004, 04:50 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potemkin
Yes the Warrior girl is a great look once the style is picked we can then develop
things further and build the rest around the characters.

perhaps if Thomas did some quick drawing showing samples of Apollo and Starbuck in the style as warrior girl and post them so that those of us who have some drawing skill can learn that style and applie it.
Its just a thought as many of us live in differant parts of the world and can't easly
communicate as persons face to face this is some thing that could cause problems
in , productivity the speed, the look,
perhaps a manual should be put together over the next few months that we can
design to make thing easer,

I was a fare penciler when I was younger.


what do you think
I think a manual of sorts, and perhaps a writers' bible would be great steps in the right direction, Potemkin. Some great ideas there.

I think that perhaps if those of us who were interested in undertaking this thing wanted to conduct communications at a more real-time level, perhaps we could try and schedule meetings in the Fleets Chatroom. I think it would be a little more secure than trying to schedule meetings chat are conducted in Yahoo IM, AOL IM, or MSN IM.

Also, I am glad that you are enjoying Dark Exodus, Potemkin. Most flattering indeed.

And reading those kind words also sparks a sudden concern in me.


Now, to everyone interested, allow me to bring up another valid point of concern. Whatever storyline we choose to run with, we have to walk a very fine line if we wish the stories to be somewhat canonical...that is: true to the established past, and a possible continuation movie.

Keeping them in canon with the past is easy enough. It is the future that is difficult to see (Always in motion, as my boy Yoda would say.) If the animated Galactica stories are to be taken as more than just fanworks, then we have to be careful with a possible established future as depicted by Glen Larson and Tom DeSanto. (I would love to say that Dark Exodus is a good future for the story, but alas it is only a fanwork, and it would be SELFISH of me to ask that we use DE as the possible future. The only way that could work is if we had agreement on two things:

1. That everyone agrees to Dark Exodus (or whomever's fanfic we chose to adopt, given their permission) as a future story to work towards.
2. That everyone agrees that our material in the animated show is a "fanwork" only. If we are to seriously consider that our material is intended to be canonical and flexible enough to accomodate an "official" future under Glen Larson's and Tom DeSanto's auspices, then we have to focus to that end.

Therefore, I think we should work on the series as if Dark Exodus, and other fanfics, NEVER existed.

IMHO, if we were to take the series in the direction of one fanfic or another, there is the possibility of egos coming into play, and causing conflict. That is a very scary step, even for myself.

Or perhaps we can find ways to interject certain little elements from the best fanfics our writers have provided, to add the spice of varying ideals, without compromising the integrity of our overall product.

For example: We could use the chain of command as established in one person's story, relationships between certain characters in another story, how certain loose ends get tied up in yet another person's story. (Do you see where I'm going with this?)

Otherwise, we shall need to come up with a common ground for the ins and outs of the story we are going to come up with...thus, as Potemkin suggested, a manual of style, and a writers' bible.

Let's all remember that the Star Trek animated series from 1972-1973 was NOT considered canon by Paramount studios, or Gene Roddenberry. (except for one particular episode involving Spock going back to visit his younger self in the past).


Ultimately, regardless of how canonical or loosely we want to play with this animated story, the goal should be to raise awareness of the Classic series to a new generation of fans, and to raise awareness for a continuation movie. (That's how I see it.)

Paramount to all of this: Let's just have FUN!

Mustex, I only vaguely remember ZOIDS, so I cannot provide a qualified opinion about the style of that particular show. However, as one can see, we are considering from among several different styles.


Respectfully, and praying to God I made some sense here. (Now I have to go warp my mind by listening to people sing bad songs very badly....and oogle beautiful women)

Martok2112
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Old November 21st, 2004, 04:22 AM   #120
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We could get our heads together and come up with a plot line that could be placed around the time of HAND OF GOD keeping our heros at the age we left them to start of with.

And the story line could be kept within a guild line where it made no comment on the future story and leaving the way clear and hastle free for the Movie.


Quote:
. That everyone agrees that our material in the animated show is a "fanwork" only. If we are to seriously consider that our material is intended to be canonical and flexible enough to accomodate an "official" future under Glen Larson's and Tom DeSanto's auspices, then we have to focus to that end.
that is the best way, it's fanfic to be enjoyed by fans and If if somehow Universal
wanted to do something with it , it could be called something like
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA "THE LOST YEARS" or
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA "THE CHILDREN OF THE STARS
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA "EXODUS TO EARTH
So that it's clear that the work we do is long before the movie time with younger
Apollo, Starbuck and even Adama alive still guiding the "LOST SOULS OF THE COLONIALS.


Quote:
Therefore, I think we should work on the series as if Dark Exodus, and other fanfics, NEVER existed
.
We should absolutly develop something new have the writer's pitching Ideas with each other and the CGI people start experimenting on designs. and what ever need to be looked at. that is why I think the first step is the bible / manual.

those that are in the film business already that can help in this area as they are all ready using some kind of system and that what we need to work on before
another step is talkin??


Quote:
I think it would be a little more secure than trying to schedule meetings chat are conducted in Yahoo IM, AOL IM, or MSN IM.

communication is important thats the one thing that will stop us
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