Which Sucks The Most

[peter noble]

A. The Magnificent Warriors.

B. The Young Lords.

C. Fire In Space.

D. Greetings From Earth.

Choose one and give your reasons for your choice.

[peter noble]

A. The Magnificent Warriors.

I find the fact that recently widowed Adama would try to romance Belloby unbelievable. Brett Sommers' performance is just plain bad and the regulars' seem off the mark performance wise to me too.

At least Hector and Vector only do their dance routine once in GFE!

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by peter noble

A. The Magnificent Warriors.

B. The Young Lords.

C. Fire In Space.

D. Greetings From Earth.

Choose one and give your reasons for your choice.

WOW. This is a tough choice between C and D. A and B, despite their ending up on the "worst episodes" list are actually pretty fun romps as far as I am concerned. Adama never had me laughing harder than he did in Magnificent Warriors, especially with Siress Belloby. The Young Lords was fantastical escapism at its finest back then. (Think Red Dawn before Red Dawn was Red Dawn)

I guess, if I had to choose between C and D, it would have to be D. I think a lot of the acting in it was what killed it for me. The Alliance commander just seemed way over the top for me, and there were a few other acting elements. However, the comedy between Hector and Vector still makes me laugh, and takes off some of the sting.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[Eric Paddon]

Hands down from that list, Greetings From Earth for reasons I've outlined before in the New Twists section. It has terrible acting not just in the guest cast but Richard Hatch gives his worst performance of the sieres, plus the entire story just goes nowhere and if that isn't bad enough a story that goes nowhere then segues in to two more equally poor episodes that I would rate worse than the other three choices on the list.

[ernie90125]

OK, maybe I'll cause offense with the reply. Its not intended, but I feel the 'need' to ask this.

Why has this type pf thread been started ?

If I were a 'man in suit' coming to find out what the faithful TOS fans are discussing, and I saw a thread about why we think the show 'sucks' I wouldn't be impressed or think that a bad decision had been made in not supporting Tom DeSanto etc

I'd go away laughing at the thought of bringing back a show, when its own fanbase thinks much of it sucks.

I think this sort of thread damages TOS, and the chances of us getting a Continuation, or being taken seriously as a fanbase.

[BST]

Originally Posted by ernie90125

OK, maybe I'll cause offense with the reply. Its not intended, but I feel the 'need' to ask this.

Why has this type pf thread been started ?

If I were a 'man in suit' coming to find out what the faithful TOS fans are discussing, and I saw a thread about why we think the show 'sucks' I wouldn't be impressed or think that a bad decision had been made in not supporting Tom DeSanto etc

I'd go away laughing at the thought of bringing back a show, when its own fanbase thinks much of it sucks.

I think this sort of thread damages TOS, and the chances of us getting a Continuation, or being taken seriously as a fanbase.

Ernie,

No offense taken. What follows, though, is my answer to your question.

To be taken seriously, one must recognize his/her shortcomings. We would be considered little more than fanboys and girls if all we did is say "Larson is a genius", "All the actors turned in fantastic performances 100% of the time.", "The FX were always 100% top-notch", etc, and never look at the other side of the coin. Yes, some of the episodes were 'dogs'; some of the same stock footage was used entirely too much; but, overall, the idea behind the show and in general, nearly 3/4 of the episodes were top-shelf. THAT is what we're still fighting for and it's that dream that we'll never lose sight of.

BST

[ernie90125]

BST,

Thank you for your reply.

Your absolutely right that balanced discussion is respectworthy.

However, the thread title is not balanced. It is not about both sides of the coin. Its about 'putting down' the series in a way we are used to from GINO fans. I respect, especially for his contribution to CFF, Peter Noble, but I think this thread was misguided, and a poor choice of words.

[BST]

Originally Posted by ernie90125

BST,

Thank you for your reply.

Your absolutely right that balanced discussion is respectworthy.

However, the thread title is not balanced. It is not about both sides of the coin. Its about 'putting down' the series in a way we are used to from GINO fans. I respect, especially for his contribution to CFF, Peter Noble, but I think this thread was misguided, and a poor choice of words.

Well, that's our lovable Mr. Noble -- shoots from the hip.

[Gemini1999]

For me,

It's a toss up between "The Magnificent Warriors" and "The Young Lords".

Both are episodes of TOS that I loathe to watch more than once a year. They were clearly the "clunkers" of what should've been a first season.

"Fire in Space" is kind of slow in pacing, but when you look at some other shows that have "major damage" episodes, it's almost a given. Space:1999 had theirs with "War Games" in Series 1 and TNG had theirs in "Disaster" (penned by Ron Moore) where the Enterprise comes upon a quantum filament and puts the ship and crew in dire straights while Picard is escorting a group of children on a tour of the ship. The worst part about "Fire" is having Muffit sniff out mushies in the ventilation system.

I like "Greetings from Earth" for the epsiode(s) it tried to be, but the characters of Hector and Vector drag it down in every scene despite the excellent casting of Bobby Van and Ray Bolger - too bad those two didn't get cast in "The Man With 9 Lives" with Fred Astaire, they would've been terrific as a trio, of what I don't know, but it just seemed like a good idea.

Those are my choices...

Bryan

[oldwardaggit]

For me it's The Young Lords hands down. Now mind you there were things I liked about that episode with the eye candy of Audrey Landers and the comedy of Lucifer but over all? Children in feathers on horse back is only one step up from actually seeing the strings attached to the space ships as they fly.

Don't laugh, I've actually seen a sci fi movie one time where you could see the fishing line attached to the ships because they had the wrong guy doing lighting and even though I'm totally into camp when it comes to sci fi ( Due to the fact that I think sci fi most of the time should be fun ) I had to turn the channel once I seen the fishing line that wasn't meant to be seen.

OWD

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by oldwardaggit

For me it's The Young Lords hands down. Now mind you there were things I liked about that episode with the eye candy of Audrey Landers and the comedy of Lucifer but over all? Children in feathers on horse back is only one step up from actually seeing the strings attached to the space ships as they fly.

Don't laugh, I've actually seen a sci fi movie one time where you could see the fishing line attached to the ships because they had the wrong guy doing lighting and even though I'm totally into camp when it comes to sci fi ( Due to the fact that I think sci fi most of the time should be fun ) I had to turn the channel once I seen the fishing line that wasn't meant to be seen.

OWD

Don't forget the Black Hole. You could see the wires on the actors during "weightlessness" scenes...and on V.I.N.Cent. and Old B.O.B.

Reminiscing,
Martok2112

[Lara]

Fire in Space is my 10 on the cringe worthy scale.. In fact it is my least watched ep and practically virgin territory on my DVDs (so forgive me if my memory is wonky..I am not going to re view for the review )

Why?

Some really lame and contrived scenes, and some bad lines that are bravely acted by actors who deserve better :
ie Adama from his life pod: Vipers will be our eyes... as the power is browning out before open heart surgery..

Starbuck and Apollo setting those charges on the hull to suck the fire into the vaccuum of space (EVERYTHING about that..including gaposis in the suits and harness cables...shudder...)

Sheba hovvering around to catch them, and being horribly gilrlie whiney in the process. (Not Anne's fault, its the way it was writ..)

Lassie saving the trapped school marm, er I mean, Muffit and Athena..

Re used fire sequences that were in the wrong ratio (from one of universals disaster movies??)

And there seems to be several cuts of this ep around, pasted into telemovies, etc etc and none of them are better than the others.

The annoying thing is there is some good acting in this, as Maren, Herb and Lorne have to make up for silly dialogue..

The script needed a damn good editing!! (either a major going over with a red pen, or ultimately, a severe Paddonning!!)

But of course, this is all IMHO.. cringeworthy scales are notoriously subjective.

Cheers,
Lara

[Lara]

Originally Posted by ernie90125

However, the thread title is not balanced. It is not about both sides of the coin. Its about 'putting down' the series in a way we are used to from GINO fans. I respect, especially for his contribution to CFF, Peter Noble, but I think this thread was misguided, and a poor choice of words.

maybe the title was a bit provocative in these current times of unrest, but if we only talk about the 'best' or 'fav' eps it turns into a lovefest: unrealistic.

We are asked to justify our choice and that can then be debated, using logic and reason..

Anyway, the four chosen eps are acknowledged 'problem' eps, and even if I was challenged by the most obnoxious, one eyed, slavvering GINO fan to justify the existance of these eps, I doubt I could do so seriously: they have real flaws, don't stand up to the passage of time and could at the VERY best be called a regrettable error in judgement.

Tho perhaps they are someones favourite eps...but I'd really like to hear why..

Cheers,
Lara

[Titon]

Why has this type pf thread been started ?

Because if you cannot look at material objectively you will never improve on said product. Listen even Larson and DeSanto recognize that some of the original material was less than stellar. One of the biggest reasons that it turned out that way was the studios rushing Larson into action without having a chance to keep everything on an even keel. He didn't want to do alot of the shows in perticular but needed material fast. They were writing the episodes as they were filming them to keep up with the studio's demands.

In the original setup Larson wanted to do mini-series type episodes. ABC and Universal pushed the weekly series without giving the producers a chance to hone there product.

Simply put ernie if you can't look at how the product failed in places how are you ever going to perfect it?

[ernie90125]

Titon,

You're right, as BST was earlier, that we should look at both the good and bad.

However, this thread's wording seems more like a derogitory look at the show, than a balanced debate. It could be used against us in arguments, and would not impress a studio exec wishing to know how the fanbase regards the show...if they saw a thread where the own shows's most loyal, were saying how much a lot of it 'sucks'.

Wouldn't this have been less likely to cause arguments, whilst encouraging objective discussion :

"In hindsight, which episode of TOS might be regarded as the weakest ?"

[BRG]

I think I shall have to choose option D- Greetings from Earth.

Part 1 was actually not too bad, but part 2 just fell apart IMO. I really did not enjoy the second part at all. And Hector & Vector Just appaling, give me Spock jamming with the space-hippies over these two singing & dancing anyday!

I find The Young Lords watchable, although I hate Kyle with a passion! Annoying git, and with a very effeminate manner about him to boot!
Magnificent Warriors is a poor episode, but I prefer it to Greetings from Earth. At least Starbuck give you some good moments in this one.

And I genuinely like Fire in Space, and I don't care who knows it! It reminds me of those over the top 70's disaster movies, which I find oddly watchable on a lazy sunday afternoon. Apart from the dodgy wire work in the spacewalk scene, Fire in Space is a pretty good episode IMHO.
BRG

[martok2112]

The editing of Fire in Space into the Living Legend to make the HBO movie "Mission Galactica: The Cylon Attack" wasn't too bad...although it did serve to make a somewhat cringeworthy climax to a great story.

[LadyImmortal]

Oye vey I say.

Those are hard choices but I am going with 'Magificent Warriors' - that's the least watched episode on my dvd set. I'm not sure what it is about it that I dislike so much - the acting? The whole 'Starbuck is sheriff cause he won a badge in a pyramid game?' The fact that people far away from the Colonies play Pyramid?

Take your pick...

--Rhonda

[Charybdis]

I have always thought that "Magnificent Warriors" was the weakest. Just didn't get into those Borays and the fact that the town put one guy out there with one gun to defend the town was simply shameful. Where were the rest of the men? Cowering behind locked doors. And the fact that they tricked Starbuck into the sherriff's badge? Pretty bad and way too simplistic.

And if you think about it, Bogan says that the Boray come and steal their women. Where are they? They didn't seem to hurt Belloby in the time they had her. So what exactly did the boray do with these human women?? Shudder, I hesitate to think!!!

But, there is one cool thing about the episode. If you listen carefully, the background music playing at different times in that cantina is totally awesome!

[mocha2112]

Originally Posted by peter noble

A. The Magnificent Warriors.

B. The Young Lords.

C. Fire In Space.

D. Greetings From Earth.

Choose one and give your reasons for your choice.

All these eps had their problems.

TYL probably would have been at least a little better if the family had come along with the team in the shuttle. It's too creepy to think about a family 6 staying alone on that planet forever. (shutter) Also, for us Apollo fans, the quotient in this episode was very low. However, if you're a big Starbuck fan, you get shoots of him without his shirt. I rarely watch this episode.

FIS ended too quickly. Too much bad happened to be wrapped up in one hour. I've never quite understood the ending - exactly what did Starbuck do to "save" Apollo? If Sheba hadn't found them, wouldn't BOTH of them been "floating in space forever" instead of just Apollo? However, I thought the use of Boomer, Athena and even Boxey and Muffit are worth watching and I thought Hatch did a good job as the worried "everybody" (worried father, worried son, worried brother, worried officer) Not a complete downer in my book.

GFE had a good start but fell flat in the end. Again, for me, another example of too much bad happening and wrapped up too quickly. Plus the inconsistences in the editing I sometimes find annoying now that I've seen the episode too many times. The use of Athena here was not good. Relegating her to a "school teacher" was a bad move. And to just leave the class unattended with Boxey to yell at Apollo? groan. However, I disagree with the assessment on Apollo/Hatch in this episode. I thought it was great character development on Apollo - I guess it helps that I agreed with the sentiment Apollo was making - and I actually watch the first half of this episode just for that. Have to be in a good mood to watch this one all the way through though.

This leaves TMW. Someone else noted how implausible a recently widowed Adama could start dating again so quickly and I concur. The settlement they found is just pathetic and even though I'd help them too even though they don't deserve it because "it's the right thing to do", the ending basically leaves them with a corrupt guy in charge of their law enforcement. What kind of message is that sending? There are only two good things in the entire episode. Apollo's reaction shot to Adama telling Belloby "...not in front of the children" and second, Apollo's ending comment to Adama "...couldn't see myself calling her 'mother'..." However, neither of these are enough to get me to watch the episode.

The Magnificent Warriors wins this contest for me.

later....

[AJMarks]

My least favorite episode isn't on that list, its Take the Celestra.

[Tabitha]

I liked Fire in Space, only because it seems like a fire on a space ship should be a very bad thing. As far as bas shows. GFE has to be it for me just because of the robot Laurel and Hardy act. Sorry, but that was the stink on the cheese. I love TOS, and admit, there are problems, but that episode is fly over country to me.

tabbi

[LadyImmortal]

My least favorite episode is actually Murder on the Rising Star.

It's just a thing I have, though. I NEVER like the episodes where the hero is accused of a murder/crime/etc they didn't commit! It doesn't matter the tv show, either. I don't like any of them!

--Rhonda

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by LadyImmortal

My least favorite episode is actually Murder on the Rising Star.

It's just a thing I have, though. I NEVER like the episodes where the hero is accused of a murder/crime/etc they didn't commit! It doesn't matter the tv show, either. I don't like any of them!

--Rhonda

And here I thought you'd appreciate the episode for those Triad outfits that the ladies swoon over, especially with Apollo and Starbuck in 'em.

Irreverently,
Martok2112

[peter noble]

I chose the list because those seem to be the ones that most fans think are really substandard.

I'm not going to apologise for the title of the thread either, it got people to notice the thread.

I'm a big fan of plain speaking and saying what you mean. Some people may find that offputting but at least you know where I'm coming from and there's no room for misinterpretation.

All the members of this board in its present incarnation, love Battlestar Galactica TOS, but recognise its flaws as well as its strengths.

If you're looking for a sycophantic whitewash you won't find it here.

Peter

P.S. I love Fire In Space, it's my favourite hour-long episode after Hand of God.

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by peter noble

I chose the list because those seem to be the ones that most fans think are really substandard.

I'm not going to apologise for the title of the thread either, it got people to notice the thread.

I'm a big fan of plain speaking and saying what you mean. Some people may find that offputting but at least you know where I'm coming from and there's no room for misinterpretation.

All the members of this board in its present incarnation, love Battlestar Galactica TOS, but recognise its flaws as well as its strengths.

If you're looking for a sycophantic whitewash you won't find it here.

Peter

P.S. I love Fire In Space, it's my favourite hour-long episode after Hand of God.

Well stated, sir. And it's a bloody good thread! One of many that has rekindled the discussion flames of TOS.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[Tabitha]

So should we start calling you Peter No Bull?

tabbi

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by Tabitha

So should we start calling you Peter No Bull?

tabbi

Damn if that doesn't fit!

[BST]

Thanks, Peter. Made this real easy. Hmfph....


Well, rule out FIS....that one is a personal favorite.

So, that leaves me TMW, TYL, GFE.....hoo boy.

All of them had faults but, if I had one episode that I could do without seeing, it would probably be Greetings From Earth. The story which started out good, went completely to hell once they reached Paradeen. Just a combination of misguided thoughts.

The Magnificent Warriors would have been my pick, though, if it hadn't been for the awkward position that Adama found himself in, regarding Belloby and the energizer. It was a hoot watching him squirm.

[BST]

Originally Posted by Tabitha

So should we start calling you Peter No Bull?

tabbi

EUREKA!!