My Apology to All

[TwoBrainedCylon]

For those who were unaware, I'm experiencing a number of personal and professional stresses that have shifted my focus throughout the Battlestar Galactica community. I've stepped away from some things and limited my involvement in others. I've also taken on a few, as yet, undisclosed projects. This has forced me to turn the core of the Cylon.org BBoard to Peter, Erik, and Michelle, all of whom do an outstanding job running the board from day to day. I am very thankful for each of them.

Recently, I've lashed out at several who likely didn't deserve the responses I gave them. More rational minds than mine have illustrated that I've been unduly and uncharacteristically harsh with some over the past couple of months. I am ashamed and I apologize. Whether you might have been the target of my actions or a bystander I give my sorrow. I never intend to be unjust or needlessly harsh to anyone. If my actions have tainted your feelings about the Cylon Alliance then I am doubly sad. I'm very proud of the moderator staff there and don't wish my actions to negatively influence their daily work or limit the interactions of our members.

If you've stepped away from the Cylon Alliance, I humbly asked you to give it another chance. We miss your contributions, your perceptions, your arguments, and your knowledge. Cylon.org is a community center, not any single person's empire. The community is weakened when good people are driven away by my lack of judgement or failure to understand your side of an arguement. Its never my intention to be Imperialistic nor is it in my character. I have always valued contrary opinions to mine, whether they be strong ones or mild disagreements. That hasn't in any way change. If I've given any impression otherwise, I am sorry.

I also hope my poor conduct hasn't alienated anyone from the good work being done through the Colonial Fan Force (www.ColonialFanForce.org). Bill, Peter, and John have worked hard to bring substance to the dream that most Galactica fans share. They deserve our full support and I'm proud to host part of their effort at Cylon.org .

Again, I apologize for my recent conduct and would like to see any whom I've distanced return. For those who might have merely been busy with their schedules, we'd like to see you come back and engage us as well.

Please pass this apology along as freely as possible for all to see.


Sandy
Admin/Owner, Cylon.org
"Saving the Future's Past"

[BST]

Sandy,

I posted a reply at CA.

Welcome back!!

I lurk from time to time at cylon.org. There are some very interesting post over there. Sometimes I wish I could reply. When I first came here I read somewhere that cylon.org was a Gentlemens Club and that they currently were not taking new members. I don't know if its true or not. I was encouraged by a friend on this site to apply. I think I sent the required info to the right places, maybe I'm wrong. All I know is I hope my request is approved but it has been out there unanswered for a LONG time now.

I hope that I made an error or that someone simply has been too busy to review or lost my request. I'll give cylon.org a chance if it gives me a chance.

My home and heart however is in the COLONIAL FLEET.

[BST]

Originally Posted by antelope526

I lurk from time to time at cylon.org. There are some very interesting post over there. Sometimes I wish I could reply. When I first came here I read somewhere that cylon.org was a Gentlemens Club and that they currently were not taking new members. I don't know if its true or not. I was encouraged by a friend on this site to apply. I think I sent the required info to the right places, maybe I'm wrong. All I know is I hope my request is approved but it has been out there unanswered for a LONG time now.

I hope that I made an error or that someone simply has been too busy to review or lost my request. I'll give cylon.org a chance if it gives me a chance.

My home and heart however is in the COLONIAL FLEET.

Antelope,

I'll PM Sandy. (Even though you and I have had our disagreements in the past, you are "good people". I'll be more than happy to let Sandy know that.)

BST


Edit: PM has been sent.

Originally Posted by BST

Antelope,

I'll PM Sandy. (Even though you and I have had our disagreements in the past, you are "good people". I'll be more than happy to let Sandy know that.)

BST


Edit: PM has been sent.

Thank you!

[BST]

You're welcome, Antelope!

[jewels]

Humility is a good trait, Sandy. No fun to practice, but it keeps us thinking better than we ought of ourselves.

Now will you come over here and yack with us sometimes here too?? There's some darned interesting folk that have shown up since you bugged out. Welcome back!

[Gemini1999]

Sandy -

It is nice to have you back.......!

Bryan
________
Infant Paxil

[Dawg]

Yeah. What Bryan said.

I am
Dawg

[thomas7g]

Hey everyone! Man has it been a busy day!

Its good to see you back here Sandy. I thought I was getting a cold shoulder. I wouldn't blame you. I exploded in CA. I normally don't get angry on forums, but there was a CA thread where CF got stabbed in the back. And that led to my losing all the hard work I did on CF. And that pushed me in the red zone. People were basically calling Me and Don traitors to the BG fanbase cause we got tired of the "hate" and decided to move CF away from it. And BOY! people HATED us for that! Losing my forums to that got to me.

This is the first time I ever got a word back from anyone in CA. I'm glad to finally hear something. After all the fallout I had to go through thanks to that thread, it was very disapointing No one from CA apologized or even spoke with me since. Closest was JJ who had argued with me about fan petitions in BGC. Infact it went the other way with signs of unkind opinions directed my way. I believe I get refered to as "feeling superior". For the record: I have a great deal of respect for Sandy of CA. Nathan of BGC, and Lisa of Media Blvd. Running a forum is HARD. I respect anyone who can do that.

As for CF's feeling of "superiority". I don't like arguing online. To me the net is a good place for fun. But any arguing is pointless. It don't achieve anything. Some people enjoy it. I'm not one. That don't mean I don't look down on a good debate. My view of online life is like those Corona commercials. If your beeper is going off, chuck it in the ocean. I don't wanna come here to add stress to my life. I don't see the point. But if I can use this analogy, I hate KimChi. But alot of my friends love that spicy leafy garbage refuse. I don't look down upon them cause they do. I won't let anyone keep it in my fridge cause then EVERYTHING tastes like kimchi. But I don't feel superior to people who like it. That's screwed if anyone thinks I would.

Anyways... I thought those things needed to be said. I'm sorry I took so long to reply. But it took awhile to compose this.

regarding CA: I enjoy talking to you. But alot of your members do not like the changes at CF and see me as the cause. Even though I don't even mod or set the agenda here anymore. I chose to leave that to Don and the Mods who do a great job. I'm burned out on it. I shepherded CF through the BG's fanbase most bitter months. And that's enough for me. But I know people don't like me and they seem to have gathered at CA and MB. And over here I get ALOT of great support and backing from everyone. I really like this place. And I'm hesistant to go where people on a whole may not want me.

But I wish CA, and MB and Moore, Larson, Hatch, Desanto Aaron, and EVERYONE associated with BG, my best. Especially you sandy who went through alot with me.

[thomas7g]

btw- just incase it wasn't clear, I was in a good mood when I wrote that. Busy cheering for my Lakers as they fought Houston. I just tend to sound more serious in posts I'm told.

I just wanted to lay everything on the table. Basically some minor things that bothered me awhile ago that made me stay around the CF ranch more and venture out less.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Not much I can say about this Thomas. You called us all hateful because we disagreed with some miniseries supporters (some of whom were of dubious origin). You told us to go screw ourselves and dropped a few bombs on Cylon.org on your way out. My memory of the comments you're referring to is very different than yours.

I am not hateful and resent being catagorized that way. You were specific in what you saw as my flaws and the flaws at Cylon.org along with the flaws of the mod staff. I am proud of the mod staff and still have ill-feelings about your conduct and comments towards what I see are some very good people.

Since you're "laying things on the table", my continued support of CF has primarily been out of respect for Don. You haven't been getting a cold shoulder. Given your last contact, I'd say that overtures lay squarely on you, not those you insulted.

Nobody at Cylon.org did anything that impacted CF in any way. The CF staff runs the board as they want to run it. There's nobody there that has any control over anything at CF. Don is the owner and makes the decisions. I think you're WAY out of line suggesting that CF's problems are in any way caused by anyone making comments at CA. People simply commented what they liked or didn't like. We didn't suggest making any changes or pulling the plug on anything.

I appreciate the well wishes.



Sandy

[Titon]

Sandy, good to hear from you again. I, like yourself have been extremely busy with personal life and having these forums to try and balance with real life can be just insane. We both have put our trusts with other's to help us balance that and sometimes even the best layed plans can go south. You and i both know how that goes. We've had many discussions along those lines.

Personally i respect you for the person you are. There is no one really in this whole messed up world of BSG that i truely could not get along with. It just the realization that sometimes you got to realize you can't do it all. That's where the mods and the rest of our collective forum patrons need to be asked to help lesson the load. The people of CF have really taken that load off for me. It's wonderful how this place has redirected it's energies to make Galactica visable again without beating the crap out of each other. In the long run it's just not worth it. The CFF has really impressed me with there dedication and hard work so far. Hopefully they'll reach there goals.

In the long run i hope all BG sites can eventually co-exist to make Galactica stronger than it has ever been. As i believe it will be. Personal life can be just nuts and lately that's what it's been like for me. I thank you Sandy for your trust in me for being who i am and that trust goes both ways.

Good luck and remember if there's anything you ever need to talk about you know where to find me.

Don

[thomas7g]

Originally Posted by TwoBrainedCylon

Not much I can say about this Thomas. You called us all hateful because we disagreed with some miniseries supporters (some of whom were of dubious origin). You told us to go screw ourselves and dropped a few bombs on Cylon.org on your way out. My memory of the comments you're referring to is very different than yours.

I am not hateful and resent being catagorized that way. You were specific in what you saw as my flaws and the flaws at Cylon.org along with the flaws of the mod staff. I am proud of the mod staff and still have ill-feelings about your conduct and comments towards what I see are some very good people.

Actually you were hateful. Alot of people at Cylon was. And People at CF. MB. And every forum tos and promini. Me included. There was an insane amount of hate in BG. Saying that specifically about cylon normally would be unfair. But considering I almost lost a huge amount of my hard work over stuff that started over at CA, by CA, well... it may not be a good thing I did. And it shouldn't have included you. But if you suddenly saw CA taken down, you would have been just as angry.

Since you're "laying things on the table", my continued support of CF has primarily been out of respect for Don. You haven't been getting a cold shoulder. Given your last contact, I'd say that overtures lay squarely on you, not those you insulted.

No way. I was offline having a peacefull day. I had never slammed CA in public. And had no plans to. I had believed and trusted in CA and supported it until it started sniping at me. I may not have gone to war against Ted for ya, But I did everything I could to support you and CA in every way I could.

Nobody at Cylon.org did anything that impacted CF in any way. The CF staff runs the board as they want to run it. There's nobody there that has any control over anything at CF. Don is the owner and makes the decisions. I think you're WAY out of line suggesting that CF's problems are in any way caused by anyone making comments at CA. People simply commented what they liked or didn't like. We didn't suggest making any changes or pulling the plug on anything.

That is completely wrong! Though Don was the one who pulled the plug. The problem began over there by CA. It exploded over there. And though they didn't have the intent to take out CF, there was ill intent and the result of those actions caused the members of CF GREAT harm. The actions hurt Muffit, Amberstar, BST, JLarocque, Gemini, CrysWimmer, and dozens and dozens of others who wrote me heartfelt emails of their loss. Legally their is no blame. But ethically if you cause harm to someone out of the consequence of your actions, you should at least be be apologetic.


I am sorry for shouting like an idiot while you were out. I'm sorry for the bad words. (I Don't remember what I said and can't even see the threads now). It was temporary insanity cause well... I was screwed hard.

I was offline having a normal day when the normal BG fanbase infighting took out all my hard work. I wasn't even near a computer.

its in the past. And its water under the bridge. But those actions caused a hell lot of harm to alot of BG fans around january/february.

[amberstar]

It is good to see you Sandy!

I remember that day Tom is speaking of well, it caused Pain to many of us. Without warning CF was gone Words can not begin to express the loss all of us felt.

I don't blame CA, there is not a single person who can take all the blame for what happened, we all played a part and were all to blame. The BSG fan base was torn from within, and we did not see the same vision that Don had. (Which was to unite all fans of BSG and try to heal the fandom).

I think that we have learned a lesson from what happened, and are not ever going to let history repeat itself again. No matter what the issue is, "fan fighting" never solves anything! It only leads to more hurt.
CF has become a " home" for all fans of Battlestar Galactica .
The past is water under the bridge, now we can stand united as a whole fandom.

Amberstar

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by amberstar

It is good to see you Sandy!

I remember that day Tom is speaking of well, it caused Pain to many of us. Without warning CF was gone Words can not begin to express the loss all of us felt.

I don't blame CA, there is not a single person who can take all the blame for what happened, we all played a part and were all to blame. The BSG fan base was torn from within, and we did not see the same vision that Don had. (Which was to unite all fans of BSG and try to heal the fandom).

I think that we have learned a lesson from what happened, and are not ever going to let history repeat itself again. No matter what the issue is, "fan fighting" never solves anything! It only leads to more hurt.
CF has become a " home" for all fans of Battlestar Galactica .
The past is water under the bridge, now we can stand united as a whole fandom.

Amberstar

And I am supposed to be the Great Wise Guru.



Very well said, Amber. Nobody was blameless at that time. And there is a valuable lesson there many have learned. I'm glad you saw it.

I am
Dawg

[amberstar]

Originally Posted by Dawg

And I am supposed to be the Great Wise Guru.



Very well said, Amber. Nobody was blameless at that time. And there is a valuable lesson there many have learned. I'm glad you saw it.

I am
Dawg

Thank you Dawg.

You're still the Great Wise Guru, I just learned from your example

Amber

[thomas7g]

Good words you two. Your wiser than I have been.

Its all past tense. And you are right Amber, its wasn't so much a CA thing as a general crazy feuding fanbase fallout thing.

Some people are still angry, and get very upset with alot that is happening (with good reason) But I think alot of the anger has tappered off. Personally I have had been in nirvana with the way CF has been flowing of late. Life has been pretty dang good here. And once we kick this server issue in the aft thruster we will be cruising sweet.

[amberstar]

I hear you loud and clear Tom! Cf has been paradise, total bliss
Good luck with the server, I hope it is cleared up soon.

Amber

[thomas7g]

Thanks sweet lady. Hopefully soon.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Thomas,

I am not nor was I ever "hateful". If you were, that's your own business. Don't try to drag me into your boat or include me in your feelings of absolution.

Your perceptions seem so far off base that I see no point in discussing them. I believe you were wrong in practically every point you posted.

I posted my apology here to ensure those who should see it had the best chance to do so.

I'm personally tired of your whining about how poor little Thomas was minding his own business and the bad people at Cylon.org picked on him. People voiced an opinion and concerns about your poor judgement in how you were running CF. You didn't like it. Don made the rest of the decisions. If you didn't like what was happenning at CF then take it up with Don. He alone holds responsibility for all of those actions. If you didn't like how people felt, take it up with yourself. You alone are responsible for that. Nobody at CA had anything to do with the management at CF. It doesn't speak well for your character that you insist on diverting blame away from where it should lie. At Cylon.org, responsibility for changes or pulling the plug should that happen begins and ends with me. If I don't like how the moderators run the board I correct them or remove them. If I do, I defend them. People's opinions are irrelevant. I am the sole guy responsible. At CF, Don is the sole guy responsible. Perhaps if you had dealt with him directly instead of trying to sneak around behind his back on so many issues your "hard work" would never have been threatened in the first place. Regardless, the issue lies with you and Don and nobody else. Stop trying to push it off on us.

You were the primary reason I stopped interacting with CF. I have little use for someone intent on portraying me as angry or hateful. I am neither and frankly don't need you to serve as the Ted Gorospe stand-in. I've answered more than enough false charges from him under his numerous personalities. I'm absolutely not going to start defending false claims against my personality from you. Your description of me is totally inaccurate. Your description of others at Cylon.org is equally inaccurate. I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to describe us since you are so completely off-base.

I doubt I have much else to say to you.



Sorry Don, I'm probably pretty well finished at CF. As you know, I'm a busy guy and I don't need this sort of crap.


Sandy

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by TwoBrainedCylon

For those who were unaware, I'm experiencing a number of personal and professional stresses that have shifted my focus throughout the Battlestar Galactica community. I've stepped away from some things and limited my involvement in others. I've also taken on a few, as yet, undisclosed projects. This has forced me to turn the core of the Cylon.org BBoard to Peter, Erik, and Michelle, all of whom do an outstanding job running the board from day to day. I am very thankful for each of them.

Recently, I've lashed out at several who likely didn't deserve the responses I gave them. More rational minds than mine have illustrated that I've been unduly and uncharacteristically harsh with some over the past couple of months. I am ashamed and I apologize. Whether you might have been the target of my actions or a bystander I give my sorrow. I never intend to be unjust or needlessly harsh to anyone. If my actions have tainted your feelings about the Cylon Alliance then I am doubly sad. I'm very proud of the moderator staff there and don't wish my actions to negatively influence their daily work or limit the interactions of our members.

If you've stepped away from the Cylon Alliance, I humbly asked you to give it another chance. We miss your contributions, your perceptions, your arguments, and your knowledge. Cylon.org is a community center, not any single person's empire. The community is weakened when good people are driven away by my lack of judgement or failure to understand your side of an arguement. Its never my intention to be Imperialistic nor is it in my character. I have always valued contrary opinions to mine, whether they be strong ones or mild disagreements. That hasn't in any way change. If I've given any impression otherwise, I am sorry.

I also hope my poor conduct hasn't alienated anyone from the good work being done through the Colonial Fan Force (www.ColonialFanForce.org). Bill, Peter, and John have worked hard to bring substance to the dream that most Galactica fans share. They deserve our full support and I'm proud to host part of their effort at Cylon.org .

Again, I apologize for my recent conduct and would like to see any whom I've distanced return. For those who might have merely been busy with their schedules, we'd like to see you come back and engage us as well.

Please pass this apology along as freely as possible for all to see.


Sandy
Admin/Owner, Cylon.org
"Saving the Future's Past"

I'll keep you in my prayers Sandy for better days ahead

[Rowan]

Sandy



I have to say I was most impressed by your apology. I thought this is great first people are mending their hurt feelings towards each other on various boards and now they are making the effort to mend them between boards. I felt a renewed sense of hope that people were making a valiant effort to repair the damage that had been created. I felt a sense of warmth towards you and Cylon.org . I thought it was vary gracious of you and showed that you could rise above it and do the mature and right thing.

But and now there is a but because you have come back twice now (I won’t count the argument with Eric) to attack Thomas’ perception of past events. As any psychologist will tell you there is no right and wrong remembering of an event only our perceptions, and our perceptions count.

I cannot dialogue on past events as I was not present as a poster, but I can comment on the present and from what I see… from my perception, I have now lost considerable respect for you based on your conduct in these last two posts. You had me now you have lost me. This might not mean anything to you but you did say in your apology which I might add you addressed “TO ALL” (you forgot to list all the exceptions to your “all”) that you were apologizing to bystanders as well. You have now made me a bystander to your present behaviour. I am shocked and deeply upset by your manner and un-gentlemanly conduct in your last two posts and since you said this brought you sorrow I can only hope it is at least causing you to reflect upon your present conduct.

I don’t know how you were raised but I was taught that you don’t come into someone’s house as a guest and insult family members…very bad manners!

And yet I find you here in my home being “unduly harsh” to someone all of us here owe a tremendous amount of gratitude to for providing us with a family away form home and many hours of enjoyment and comradery. Who devotes his heart and time to us on a daily basis.

In your post it is not enough that you should put Tom down but then you suggest that Thomas should be angry with Don now you are instigating in fighting among those responsible for the continuation of our enjoyment of this site.

I don’t need someone else to portray you as “angry or hateful” I think your doing a good job of that on your own and If I look at the way you have conducted yourself in your recent posts here I have considerable difficulty finding any flaws in Thomas’ description of you. It is clear to me why it is that you find yourself apologizing for you past conduct.

Now I hope that you will leave here take your unresolved anger with you and when you are ready to come back and indeed apologise to “all” We will be more than delighted to accept it and welcome you to our home.



Thanks Sandy

[ernie90125]

I agree so much with Rowan. We all find ourselves in a difficult situation, or unpopular with others for something we have said at sometime - we have to try to work though it doing what we think is right....

But coming here and firing all that, when you've obviously made the decision to leave us, does nothing to strengthen CF, BSG or people's perception of how 'sorry' you are. In fact you last post invalidates your apology, and brings great disgrace upon yourself.

I never visited CAForums, I have never met you or Thomas, but having read your last post I am inclined to believe Thomas and Eric Padden, both of whom have been gentlemen at CF.

Can I suggest you back off, do not post further malicious posts on CF, and go back to your very 'happy' life you must lead......

[bsg1fan1975]

just because you like to dirty your yard please think twice about dirtying someone else's. I used to go over to CA occasionally but found that it was not as nice as it is in other forums I frequent.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Rowan,

I'll linger long enough to answer this since you took the time to write it. I respect your opinion and can even understand it. You aren't aware of the long history and stresses. I can understand why you see the things you do.

Thomas is aware of the past. He should be very, very aware of the character of the people he's insulting. Out of moderate respect for him, I haven't drug out the events that made him feel uncomfortable in other circles. He is hardly the innocent bystander he's portraying, nor are the people he's insulting quite a out of line as he's indicating. Since you don't know the history, IMO, you can't judge whether my comments are accurate or not. Consequently, you don't have a basis to indicate whether I am dead on correct or a raving idiot. I'm likely somewhere in between.

I am not trying to get an infighting underway. Thomas knows fully well why I say take it up with Don. I would be very, very, very surprised if Don (the owner) had any different opinion than the one I'd expressed. I've always known Don to take full responsibility for everything at CF. Never once has he ever pointed the finger to someone else and made them responsible for his actions.

Telling Thomas to take things up with Don isn't an insult or a slam. Its simply a statement of fact. Don holds the keys. Don makes the decisions. I have ZERO influence over Don other than just being a guy with an opinion. I respect Don and know he doesn't push his actions off on others. I'm personally tired of Thomas trying to do that with people at Cylon.org .

I came into this "house" to offer an apology. Undoubtedly, I directly that too widely believing that the people who deserved the apology would know who I was talking about. It wasn't an open invitation for everyone to toss blame for their past actions onto me or Cylon.org. I don't intend to insult anyone, Thomas or otherwise. I also don't intend to sit back and watch history be revised in front of me or to be portrayed as "hateful" by someone who actually knows better.

Thomas is correct when he said he was a strong supporter of Cylon.org. He was a very strong supporter and there was a time I valued his opinion and input a great deal.

I was raised to be both respectful and truthful in other people's home. I was also raised to believe that if you come into a home as a guest, you deserve to be treated with a certain level of respect. You're also not expected to conform to a certain opinion and restrict your conversations to send a specific message, which is what we faced once Thomas believed he had certain job opportunites that might open up before him if he were more supportive of the miniseries. Once he embraced that belief, his former associates became inconvenient. For him, we were suddenly a problem and he treated us as one. He now resents us for it. If you're given insults in someone else's home, you leave, which is what many of us did.

Thomas said he was afraid he was getting the "cold shoulder". He caused the situation and he refuses to try to correct it. He refuses to accept responsibility for events that he should accept. In that, he has made a decision and is in a situation he created himself and maintains on his own. I'm glad he enjoys interaction with so many new friends. He's lost a number of them along the way. Hopefully, he finds the new ones better to his liking than the flawed, hateful people he had to deal with before.

I did think your post deserved a reply. I take some responsibility for all of this. I earned that when I returned here against my better judgement. I know that for some, I've come here from out of the blue. I didn't think that Eric and Thomas would use the apology as a platform for their whines. Poor judgement on my part. I blame myself for labeling the thread "To all" and starting any dialog here in the first place.

Now you have some background. Enjoy whatever opinions you wish to form.

You are correct when you said I probably wouldn't care about you loosing respect for me. I don't know you and don't really care what strangers think of me, one way or the other. I do apprciate the comment though. Its about the only thing I've seen written about me in this thread that I thought was even remotely accurate.


Sandy
Formerly fond of Colonial Fleets

[amberstar]

Originally Posted by TwoBrainedCylon

Thomas,

I am not nor was I ever "hateful". If you were, that's your own business. Don't try to drag me into your boat or include me in your feelings of absolution.

Your perceptions seem so far off base that I see no point in discussing them. I believe you were wrong in practically every point you posted.

I posted my apology here to ensure those who should see it had the best chance to do so.

I'm personally tired of your whining about how poor little Thomas was minding his own business and the bad people at Cylon.org picked on him. People voiced an opinion and concerns about your poor judgement in how you were running CF. You didn't like it. Don made the rest of the decisions. If you didn't like what was happenning at CF then take it up with Don. He alone holds responsibility for all of those actions. If you didn't like how people felt, take it up with yourself. You alone are responsible for that. Nobody at CA had anything to do with the management at CF. It doesn't speak well for your character that you insist on diverting blame away from where it should lie. At Cylon.org, responsibility for changes or pulling the plug should that happen begins and ends with me. If I don't like how the moderators run the board I correct them or remove them. If I do, I defend them. People's opinions are irrelevant. I am the sole guy responsible. At CF, Don is the sole guy responsible. Perhaps if you had dealt with him directly instead of trying to sneak around behind his back on so many issues your "hard work" would never have been threatened in the first place. Regardless, the issue lies with you and Don and nobody else. Stop trying to push it off on us.

You were the primary reason I stopped interacting with CF. I have little use for someone intent on portraying me as angry or hateful. I am neither and frankly don't need you to serve as the Ted Gorospe stand-in. I've answered more than enough false charges from him under his numerous personalities. I'm absolutely not going to start defending false claims against my personality from you. Your description of me is totally inaccurate. Your description of others at Cylon.org is equally inaccurate. I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to describe us since you are so completely off-base.

I doubt I have much else to say to you.



Sorry Don, I'm probably pretty well finished at CF. As you know, I'm a busy guy and I don't need this sort of crap.


Sandy

I may be oversteeping my bounds here, but I just can't believe what I have read in your last post.

Sandy I respect you and your opinion, but I must ask this question. This thread was started as an apology to all, now it has become an attack on Tom, and an attempt to re hash past events. Why?
Here at CF we all love and admire Thomas, and will stand beside him. So if I may, I suggest that if you have un resolved issues please do so in private. There is no need to start another feud and rehash the past!
I will always enjoy reading your posts, you have done much to aid our cause and have appeared in the past to be of good judgement, but now I think you need to step back and re think this.

Amberstar

[Gemini1999]

People of the Fleet (I just love saying that...)

I think that Sandy has shown quite a bit of integrity and courage to come forward to issue such a public apology. I've been a member of his board about the same amount of time as Fleets and post just as often there as I do here. I don't know Sandy well on a personal level as much as some, but I do respect what he was trying to do here. Nobody asked him to apologize, nor was it prompted by a group of people that was being overtly treated unfairly.

Sandy openly admitted that he was going thorough some tough, personal issues and those issues may have been an influence in the "color" of his posting as of late. Being that most of the posting he does is at Cylon.org and it is kind of a "lively" discussion site, a lot of people (including me) don't really know what the apology is about. I was more than willing to offer my words of support and openly accepted his apology to show that support to someone I like and respect.

The man is obviously in a low point emotionally - some may seem to perceive that as a weakness, I don't know. Since the thread initially went off track with some unneccesary comments, it was decided to split the thread to show respect for what Sandy was trying to communicate and keep the thoughts in the proper vein of discussion.

Even though I like and respect Tom a great deal (I'm not distancing myself here) I don't really know exactly what Tom was trying to accomplish and feel that his comments should have been done in private so they could work things out without an audience.

Even though some of you may feel that Sandy's response may be unwarranted and you feel the need to respond to show support for Tom, I think that those comments being directed at Sandy should stop and be discouraged to those that may feel the need to comment further.

In short, people - you're kicking a man that is down and I don't understand it.

Respectfully,

Bryan

P.S.: I think that this thread should be closed as it is no longer serving any purpose to keep it open.
________
Cheap water pipes

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Gemini1999

People of the Fleet (I just love saying that...)

I think that Sandy has shown quite a bit of integrity and courage to come forward to issue such a public apology. I've been a member of his board about the same amount of time as Fleets and post just as often there as I do here. I don't know Sandy well on a personal level as much as some, but I do respect what he was trying to do here. Nobody asked him to apologize, nor was it prompted by a group of people that was being overtly treated unfairly.

Sandy openly admitted that he was going thorough some tough, personal issues and those issues may have been an influence in the "color" of his posting as of late. Being that most of the posting he does is at Cylon.org and it is kind of a "lively" discussion site, a lot of people (including me) don't really know what the apology is about. I was more than willing to offer my words of support and openly accepted his apology to show that support to someone I like and respect.

The man is obviously in a low point emotionally - some may seem to perceive that as a weakness, I don't know. Since the thread initially went off track with some unneccesary comments, it was decided to split the thread to show respect for what Sandy was trying to communicate and keep the thoughts in the proper vein of discussion.

Even though I like and respect Tom a great deal (I'm not distancing myself here) I don't really know exactly what Tom was trying to accomplish and feel that his comments should have been done in private so they could work things out without an audience.

Even though some of you may feel that Sandy's response may be unwarranted and you feel the need to respond to show support for Tom, I think that those comments being directed at Sandy should stop and be discouraged to those that may feel the need to comment further.

In short, people - you're kicking a man that is down and I don't understand it.

Respectfully,

Bryan

P.S.: I think that this thread should be closed as it is no longer serving any purpose to keep it open.

Bryan I think that Amber's post has alot of merit. I accept Sandy's apology
but I believe that his differences with Tom should be resolved in private instead of this tit for tat.

Conventional comic wisdom has it that the three hardest words for a man to say are, "I love you." But in my observations of the real world, I think the true hardest three words are, "I was wrong."

Apologies are extremely difficult to make. Pride doesn't go down easy. A man who says, "I am sorry" is doing a very difficult thing.

Accepting an apology is also hard. It is so tempting to feel either a sense of triumph, or of dissatisfaction that the apology was not complete enough. In a way, the person making the apology has an advantage; he has had time to cool off, collect his thoughts, think it through, and choose his words carefully. The person receiving the apology, on the other hand, is taken by surprise, and may react BEFORE thinking the response through carefully.

I like Thomas7g. A LOT. He's a great guy, and he gets a lot done here, including a few personal favors for me. From reading his posts I feel I have gotten to know him, although not as well as some of you.

I thought his response (your response, Thomas, because I know you will be reading this, too) to Two-brain's apology was a bit harsh. Every point he made may have been true, and yet the important thing was not so much who was right in the past as what they are going to do about things now.

Two-brain felt hurt that his apology (he probably felt) was trashed instead of gratefully accepted. So he reversed course and lashed out instead of collecting his thoughts further. And now, because we are Thomas7g's friends, we are rallying to his defense and attacking the "stranger". It makes sense, but I think we can do better than that.

I know without asking that I don't agree with Two-brain on everything. Heck, I don't even agree with MYSELF on everything. But I respect him, and I think Titon's first response was great, as were all the follow-ups until Thomas7g responded. Thomas, I am going to ask AS A FRIEND WHO RESPECTS YOU if you might consider picking that olive branch up off the ground and offering it back to Two-brain. I ask that fully aware that I don't know everything that went on, and it may not be a reasonable request. But maybe it is. You decide.

If it comes to a fight, I'm in Thomas7g's conrner because I know him and I like him. But maybe we can find a way to do the civilized thing instead of the instinctive thing. Peace may not be the MOST important thing of all, but it's pretty high up on the list, and sometimes it's worth the effort to obtain it. I recall the example of Robert E. Lee, who, when his men offered to disband the army, take to the hills, and conduct guerilla warfare rather than surrender to the damn Yankees, advised them istead to return in peace to their land and rebuild their homes and farms. And General Joshua Chamberlain, hero of Little Round Top at Gettysburg, later placed in charge of receiving Lee's formal surrender at Appomattox. Without telling Grant (for fear of being overruled) he gave the surrendering Southerners a salute with full military honors as a sign of honor and respect. It astonished many, angered some, but made a lasting impression on the soldiers in gray.

Theirs are good examples to consider following. That's my suggestion, anyway.