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Old January 2nd, 2004, 06:34 AM   #1
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The following is my response to a post over at CA. The response seemed to take on a life of its own, as I typed it, and I felt that it should also stand as its own separate thread:

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JSC,

I share the same pain as you. The mini-series, for me, epotomizes the culture that we find ourselves in, and that is one of being a "throw-away" culture. Since the 1980's, the "throw-away" concept has blossomed to the point where seemingly everything is considered expendable. It's no longer in vogue to try and "fix" things, just throw the baby out with the bath water and start over.

About a year ago, I had a problem with my 4-year old VCR. The threaded cable jack, on the back of the machine, had somehow broken away from the housing of the VCR. It rendered the unit unusable. I took the VCR to a repair shop and was told it could be repaired. It wound up costing $50 to fix but, that was the ONLY thing wrong with it. I chose to have it fixed, as opposed, to buying a new one that would have only cost another $30 mainly because the unit worked perfectly otherwise. For me, it made sense to keep an otherwise functional unit. It still works well to this day.

I kept with that mindset when the re-imagining of BSG was announced. I could not understand why it was necessary to start over. The story had already been told, up to a point then, as we all know, it stopped. Why couldn't that story have been continued? What was wrong with that story that would not allow it to be continued? Why was it necessary to start over? Why would Moore not avail himself of the availability of ALL of the original episodes when going through the initial information-gathering stage?

I have read many of the multitude of posts regarding the re-imagining and still don't feel satisfied that these questions have been answered. I still feel, deep down, that Moore was so hell-bent on making this HIS story that he would not LOWER himself to "picking up where someone else left off". I am not saying that the original show didn't have its warts but, that a lot of damned good elements were just jettisoned into oblivion, in favor of his "new" concept.

I have also read posts regarding the content for additional episodes, if this goes to series. Some of the initial ideas seem to be culled from some of the original series episodes - re-introducing Cain, re-doing War of the Gods. Doesn't it seem to be a bit disingenuous to say that "scinece fiction is being re-invented" and then, go back to the same well that has been proclaimed (by some) to have nothing but foul water?

Sorry about the lengthy reply, John, and also for straying onto a bit of a tangent.

Like I said, initially, I do share your pain.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 06:40 AM   #2
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In case anyone was wondering here's the post that started BST's response on Cylon Alliance where I originally posted it.

Post subject: The more I watched the angrier I got

I tried to watch the mini. I just couldn't.

I found myself fast forwarding through the sex scenes, but it wasn't enough.

As I watched, all I could think of was all the fans had gone through for these past few years to bring Galactica back. Only to be led over a cliff.

Being ignored by Moore, Eick, and Sci-Fi(and for all I know CONTINUING to be ignored), attacked by clone handles and the Milton Collective for nothing more than sick amusement, having a wedge being permanently driven(most likely) into the fandom because Moore, Eick and Hammer wanted their way and not giving a damn about us. Katee Sachoff's 'deal with it' line which tells us how much respect she has for us and the original series-and by that I mean NONE. Being attacked by the media being labeled as 'militant' or being told what we fought for was crap, and that the 'new hotness' is all great.

How much of this do we have to got through? How much of this do we have to put ourselves through? How many slaps do we have to take?

If I ran into one mini actor, or Moore, Eick or Hammer, and they said that they were sorry for what happened with Galactica, and with its fans. I'd say straight out "No you're not" because I wouldn't believe any of them. They seem to be getting their series, why should I believe any of them?

I sent my Larson/DeSanto letters in weeks ago, but I don't see much hope there. We got screwed over so many times what's another time?

It's not fair, and it's not right.

But hey, life sucks then you die right?

And here's the follow up I did after BST's reply:

And you know what's worse?

If there was a message that the mini gave to the fans who fought to bring Galactica back it would most likely be this:

"You fans can stick it!"

I could see Moore, Eick, Hammer and Katee Sackhoff saying this right now.

End of rant-for now.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 08:44 AM   #3
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I have read many of the multitude of posts regarding the re-imagining and still don't feel satisfied that these questions have been answered. I still feel, deep down, that Moore was so hell-bent on making this HIS story that he would not LOWER himself to "picking up where someone else left off". I am not saying that the original show didn't have its warts but, that a lot of damned good elements were just jettisoned into oblivion, in favor of his "new" concept.

Isn't that exactly what Moore was hired to do?? Reimagine the series? He should have taken the job agreeed to those conditions and then done the opposite?


If I ran into one mini actor, or Moore, Eick or Hammer, and they said that they were sorry for what happened with Galactica, and with its fans. I'd say straight out "No you're not" because I wouldn't believe any of them. They seem to be getting their series, why should I believe any of them?


I can't imagine they would say they are sorry. They are very consistent in their staments. SciFi set out to reimagine a property they owned, hired writers and producers to carry that out, put the show on the air, got good ratings and maybe the greenlight for a show. What would they be sorry about? they clearly don't feel they have done anything wrong. If you imagine that their goal in spending millions of dollars just to piss you off, it seems like a pretty implausible premise.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 08:45 AM   #4
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First of all RDM is not the jerk many of you think he is. He does respect the fan and he does value other people's opinion. As a longtime DS9 fan I can attest to that.

Second, the reimagining was in my mind the most practical way to bring back BSG. No matter what people tell you, you can't capture lightning in the botte twice (Matrix, prequal trilogy for Star Wars). Continuation could have been worse than the mini (remember Galatica '80). This way the old series remains seperate and untouched while RDM can take the new BSG in a different direction. Yes this would alienate some fans, but it certainly isn't planned. Star Trek has proven that fan unity is impossible so why bother.

Finally it's Univeral that owns BSG and they can do whatever they want to do with it. RDM was asked to do an reimagined serious. He did not barge in force the idea down everybody's throat. If Univeral wanted a continuation they would have supported Desanto or brought in Larson or maybe Hatch.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 08:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
First of all RDM is not the jerk many of you think he is. He does respect the fan and he does value other people's opinion. As a longtime DS9 fan I can attest to that.
Yes, he values other people's opinions -- that's why he told us the "popcorn is in another aisle".

btw, I agree that he did some good work with ST. Too bad that didn't carry over to Battlestar.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 09:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by BST
Yes, he values other people's opinions -- that's why he told us the "popcorn is in another aisle".

btw, I agree that he did some good work with ST. Too bad that didn't carry over to Battlestar.
I think he has a point. The fans attacked him even before the mini was shown. These people have already decided to hate anything that isn't what they wanted. Why should RDM waste his time trying to convince them to give his show a chance? Now that the mini is over expect RDM to answer any CONSTRUCTIVE criticism on the show (I already saw his repsonse to the infamous baby-kiling scene ).
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 09:16 AM   #7
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People keep throwing G80 up as a shining example of a continuation.

It wasn't. G80 was the result of the network requirements, not the creativeness of the production team. ABC handed Larson & Co. next to nothing to work with and they had to do the best they could. The conditions were dictated to them. G80 was the sad result.

Quote:
First of all RDM is not the jerk many of you think he is. He does respect the fan and he does value other people's opinion. As a longtime DS9 fan I can attest to that.
Glad you think so, Yminale, but in whole I disagree. He may not be a jerk, but he doesn't care what other people think and has no respect for BSG fans. He did some great work on ST, but he was supervised doing it. He's said, more than once, that the mini was his vision and (to paraphrase) the fans' concerns didn't matter.

Quote:
Second, the reimagining was in my mind the most practical way to bring back BSG. No matter what people tell you, you can't capture lightning in the botte twice (Matrix, prequal trilogy for Star Wars). Continuation could have been worse than the mini (remember Galatica '80). This way the old series remains seperate and untouched while RDM can take the new BSG in a different direction. Yes this would alienate some fans, but it certainly isn't planned. Star Trek has proven that fan unity is impossible so why bother.
Says who? I can give you at least one example where lightning was caught in the bottle a second time - Terminator 2 outperformed the first movie. With the proven track record of Tom DeSanto (another example - X-Men2), a continuation could have been produced that met the expectations of all fans (and we wouldn't be locked in this debate).

To be bluntly honest, Yminale, I don't think there's anything worse in the BSG universe than the mini. In my own estimation, it ranks in the same place as G80. In fact, I would say it ranks lower - simply because G80 at least tried to maintain the BSG universe where the mini ignores it.

You're right that Universal owns BSG (mostly) - but they don't like Larson and so made this travesty in order to satisfy the legal requirements to retain ownership of the copyrights (otherwise they would have reverted back to Larson).

Malachi, I agree with most of what you just said, except for the very last (which sounds like a personal slam, BTW). The producers of the mini did not set out with the express purpose of pissing anybody off - but that certainly was a result. They simply ignored the voices of the fans when it could have been just as easy to create something everyone would have liked (or at least accepted). That disregard is what most of us are pissed off about.

You are absolutely correct when you say there isn't much of the original BSG in the mini. My own opinion is that the mini hijacked the marquee; it is a separate production, a separate story set in a different universe entirely and bears no resemblance to the name it stole (in order to cash in on the name recognition).

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Old January 2nd, 2004, 09:27 AM   #8
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I get you about the coarsening of our disposable society.

My take on things is a bit different.I think the threshold of social acceptance of deviant behavior has slid down a few pegs,but the ugliness it exposes has been here all along.

One question for debate,paraphrasing a libertarian radio talk show host I heard some years ago.
He opined about sex and violence on tv,and watching such with his kid.He questioned why the outrage about sex scenes,but relatively less about gratuitous violence.He explained that he hopes his child will grow up to enjoy sex,but hopes he never commits a violent crime.He asks about a minor child viewing sex acts on tv,and asks "what is the harm?"
But recognizes that the violence is a thing that requires an adult explaination that the behavior is unacceptable.

Many discussions of the sex scenes seem to say that there is merit in "leaving it to imagination" not depicting explicit behavior,and leaving adults and mature adolescents to understand what is going on off the screen.
The cry against the baby scene does not follow this thinking,as the gore is off screen,but we know what happened.I imagine that there are some so sensitive in their sexual mores that even the suggestive sex scenes are offensive to them.

Well,enough on this,I'll wait for a little feedback.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 09:45 AM   #9
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Malachi, I agree with most of what you just said, except for the very last (which sounds like a personal slam, BTW). The producers of the mini did not set out with the express purpose of pissing anybody off - but that certainly was a result. They simply ignored the voices of the fans when it could have been just as easy to create something everyone would have liked (or at least accepted). That disregard is what most of us are pissed off about.


I'm not sure how my post can be construed as a personal slam. But I will clarify that in no way did I intend it to be.
Yes, they ignored the fans of TOS. they obviously has no interest whatsoever in creating something that the fans of TOS wanted. I certainly understand how that kind of disregard when you care so much is extremely hard to take. I just have to disagree with the idea that they cared enough to actually try to piss off the fans. I have worked in this business for 20 years and I have never seen a studio care about anyones feelings. They care about business success and a creative exec/writer will care about it from a creative view. Their creative view. the Producers and writers on BSG are no different than any other producers or writers in this town. They have a job to do and the numbers of the fans who objected just weren't big enough. It would have taken numbers in the millions to make a dent.
That's all I'm saying, nothing personal intended.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 09:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dawg
People keep throwing G80 up as a shining example of a continuation.

It wasn't. G80 was the result of the network requirements, not the creativeness of the production team. ABC handed Larson & Co. next to nothing to work with and they had to do the best they could. The conditions were dictated to them. G80 was the sad result.
Larson could have walked way instead of put his name on such garbage. In fact RDM faced a similar situation during his tenure in ST:Voyager and he walked away which brought him alot of respect. Gene Rodenberry had the same thing happened to him in ST and he walked away. In fact I mistrust Larson after seeing G80 and the second season of Buck Rogers. He seem too willing to compromise his vision in order to satify the demands of the studio.

Quote:

Glad you think so, Yminale, but in whole I disagree. He may not be a jerk, but he doesn't care what other people think and has no respect for BSG fans. He did some great work on ST, but he was supervised doing it. He's said, more than once, that the mini was his vision and (to paraphrase) the fans' concerns didn't matter.
RDM started as mere staff writer in ST: The Next Generation and worked up to Executive producer in DS9. He also wrote some of the best episodes and is very much a hands-on kinda guy. To be honest TOS fans have shown RDM no respect either since the reimaging has been announced. How can you critize a show before you see it? Of course the fans concern don't matter, they haven't seen it yet. I think DS9 taught him to forge ahead and let the older fans either come around or leave. Finally just because it's his own vision doesn't mean he doesn't respect the original. Give the guy some credit, he's only doing this because he find the premise compelling.

Quote:

Says who? I can give you at least one example where lightning was caught in the bottle a second time - Terminator 2 outperformed the first movie. With the proven track record of Tom DeSanto (another example - X-Men2), a continuation could have been produced that met the expectations of all fans (and we wouldn't be locked in this debate).


Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good (once again Matrix and Star Wars). Terminator 2 was completely different from the Terminator (Arnold was the good guy remember) and X-Men 2, well I didn't like the first one or the second so I won't comment.

Quote:

To be bluntly honest, Yminale, I don't think there's anything worse in the BSG universe than the mini. In my own estimation, it ranks in the same place as G80. In fact, I would say it ranks lower - simply because G80 at least tried to maintain the BSG universe where the mini ignores it.
I don't understand how simply because "it isn't a continuation therefore it must be bad" attitude. Enterprise is a continuation and it's crap. A continuation is no guarantee of quality. If RDM made BSG a continuation with six, baby killings , and Starbuck with a sex change, would fans be more forgiving of it's faults.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 11:38 AM   #11
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A continuation may not have been a mark of quality, but it would have shown that they did in fact listen to the audience already in place.

And I believe the numbers were big enough. I remember a Sci-Fi article that said there was a LARGE number of fans that wanted a continuation.

And before there was a re-imagining Richard Hatch was going from town to town, con to con, talking with fans, listening to them. He put forth his own money to get Battlestar on the air, they way the fans preferred it.

Sometimes you don't need to see a show. Fans didn't go in blind on this. The script was leaked, reviews were published. There was so much info released on the web one didn't have to watch the mini. They probably did out of curiosity, or because they wanted to show interest in Battlestar in hopes of getting Tom DeSanto's project back off the ground.

And discarding the original fanbase was a mistake, if not for one reason alone. When doing a production, ANY production, whether it be a stage play, T.V. show, movie, comedy act, anything they are doing it for an audience. It is the producer's, writer's actor's and director's job to bring that audience to see that show. They are to bring in the audience.

There was an audience already in place. Moore and Universal did not want that audience. That was a mistake.

Every production is done for an audience. If you are not in the buisness to do something for an audience you have no buisness being in it.

By that estimation the people in charge of Universal, RDM, David Eick, and the Sci-Fi channel have no buisness doing a Battlestar production, or any production if they are going to discard an already in place audience.

We would have come around to RDM's story if he was willing to compromise. WE WERE WILLING! HE WASN'T! We would have settled for a prequel, sidestory or distant continuation. Something that maintained the original, and would have allowed Moore to do what he wanted and we would have respected his work more. He didn't want to do that. We didn't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater. He did.

By ignoring and disregarding us, he has earned his disrespect, as well as those that pushed forth the re-imagining. We TOS fans were willing to compromise. Moore and Universal weren't.

One needs to work with the audience, not toss them aside.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 12:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by JSC1
A continuation may not have been a mark of quality, but it would have shown that they did in fact listen to the audience already in place.

And I believe the numbers were big enough. I remember a Sci-Fi article that said there was a LARGE number of fans that wanted a continuation.

And before there was a re-imagining Richard Hatch was going from town to town, con to con, talking with fans, listening to them. He put forth his own money to get Battlestar on the air, they way the fans preferred it.
Television production is not a democracy. Fans may have the passion but except for a few exception lack the experience or creativity to judge an idea. When you try to apease a dedicated fanbase you usually get garbage (Enterprise comes to mind). Sometimes you have to alienate the fanbase to move a franchise forward. RDM learned that from doing DS9. I personally don't understand the popularity of X-men, Spiderman and LOTR movies. They are very dull and predictable but that's what the fans want.

Quote:

Sometimes you don't need to see a show. Fans didn't go in blind on this. The script was leaked, reviews were published. There was so much info released on the web one didn't have to watch the mini. They probably did out of curiosity, or because they wanted to show interest in Battlestar in hopes of getting Tom DeSanto's project back off the ground.
I've seen great script reviews which made into poor movies and vice versa. Scripts go through many drafts so the one that leaked may not be the one in production. You can't judge a show by a leaked script only the final product. I don't read script review because they bias you one way or the other (like BSG).

Quote:

And discarding the original fanbase was a mistake, if not for one reason alone. When doing a production, ANY production, whether it be a stage play, T.V. show, movie, comedy act, anything they are doing it for an audience. It is the producer's, writer's actor's and director's job to bring that audience to see that show. They are to bring in the audience.
Brand recognition was more important than the existing audience. You get the best of both worlds. An audience familar with the material but without any preconcieved notions. Trying to grow an existing audience is tough to do.

Quote:

There was an audience already in place. Moore and Universal did not want that audience. That was a mistake.
Was it. You saw the ratings.


Quote:

We would have come around to RDM's story if he was willing to compromise. WE WERE WILLING! HE WASN'T! We would have settled for a prequel, sidestory or distant continuation. Something that maintained the original, and would have allowed Moore to do what he wanted and we would have respected his work more. He didn't want to do that. We didn't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater. He did.
With the amount of effort you need to establish series. You might as well start from scratch. I don't understand how the new series hurts the original. Neith series interact with each other so they can go their seperate direction. I think the real fear is that most of the fanbase will move to the new series and abadon the old one. I doubt that it will happen
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 03:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yminale
Fans may have the passion but except for a few exception lack the experience or creativity to judge an idea.
Wrong. Oh, so very, very wrong. Think about this, Yminale. The fans are the audience. They are the ultimate judge of any idea and its execution.

Quote:
Originally posted by Yminale
When you try to apease a dedicated fanbase you usually get garbage (Enterprise comes to mind). Sometimes you have to alienate the fanbase to move a franchise forward. RDM learned that from doing DS9.
Well, certainly! Why didn't I see that! Maybe Farscape would still be on if they simply turned their backs on the viewers and went in another, unrelated direction, leaving the fans scratching their heads in bewilderment! What a concept!

(That, by the way, was sarcasm. You get nowhere by abandoning your audience; you simply get an empty theater and a really quick closing.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Yminale
I personally don't understand the popularity of X-men, Spiderman and LOTR movies. They are very dull and predictable but that's what the fans want.
My heart goes out to you, Yminale. Do you ever have any fun?

Quote:
Originally posted by Yminale
Brand recognition was more important than the existing audience. You get the best of both worlds. An audience familar with the material but without any preconcieved notions. Trying to grow an existing audience is tough to do.
With all respect (and apologies for the sarcasm above), Yminale:

Bull.

You're dead on right when you say TV production is not a democracy. But as JSC1 said (and so well), it is a mistake to ignore an established audience; if I could guarantee a million viewers (or book buyers, or theater goers), do you think my ideas should be dismissed?

That's what they did.

It would have been very easy to create a new Battlestar Galactica that the established audience could have embraced AND been something you would have enjoyed, too. For all the reasons that have been thrown back and forth over the weeks and months past, though, they opted to turn their backs on the established audience, alienate us.

And with inferior material, which added insult to injury.

What the mini did was to utilize the familiarity of the name to create interest - and it did not deliver. How many of us had friends who, when they first heard a new BSG was coming, thought they'd see more of what made TOS great, only to be shocked and saddened when the truth of the matter was revealed? I had two personal experiences. I know JSC1 had at least one, jjrakman more....

BST is right on. We've become a throw-away society. BSG is just a TV show, true, but this is illustrative of what we've become. Please, go right ahead and overwrite something that had some substance simply because it is more convenient and less expensive to vomit forth some mindless dreck to gain some momentary - and purely financial - gain.

It's become the American Way.

I hope my point is clear. It's been a pleasure talking to you.

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Old January 2nd, 2004, 03:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yminale
Larson could have walked way instead of put his name on such garbage. In fact RDM faced a similar situation during his tenure in ST:Voyager and he walked away which brought him alot of respect. Gene Rodenberry had the same thing happened to him in ST and he walked away. In fact I mistrust Larson after seeing G80 and the second season of Buck Rogers. He seem too willing to compromise his vision in order to satify the demands of the studio.
Glen Larson had nothing to do with Buck Rogers after the initial pilot film. His company produced the first season in name only, but basically Bruce Lansbury produced it.

In the second season, John Mantley took over from Lansbury and tried to make it into Star Trek.

As to G'80, Larson SHOULD have walked away, but he's known for not showing any backbone when it comes to the studio and he always did what he was told to do by them.

Mind you, if you try to screw him out of money or recognition he'll sue you at the drop of a hat.

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Old January 2nd, 2004, 08:49 PM   #15
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The ratings could have always been better. Those numbers could have been higher had the audience wishes had been honored.

And from what I've seen on an AP network news ratings sheet the second night barely broke into the top 15. Had the audience wishes been honored I believe that those numbers could have gone to the 4.0 5.0 range. But now we'll never know.

And the success I contribute to hook and crook. The hook being the name 'Battlestar Galactica, and the crook was in making the unaware fan to think that the show they fought for was coming back.

And those that were aware were probably trying to maintain support for the Galactica concept. We were in a Catch 22. If it succeeded then the mini would most likely go to series, but there would be a possibility of a continuation movie down the line. If it failed Sci-Fi could have said "I guess there just wasn't much interest in Battlestar Galactica" and all hope would have died there.

You're right Hollywood is not a democracy, it's more like a dictatorship. And more times than not dictators are self serving, and do their actions at the people's expense instead of for the people. And the mini is a shining example of that.

And as for Enterprise catering to the fans wishes? I don't think so. If there was to be a prequel series I think fans would have preferred to see a Captain Sulu story where he's in command of the Excelsior. Berman wanted Enterprise.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 11:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dawg
Wrong. Oh, so very, very wrong. Think about this, Yminale. The fans are the audience. They are the ultimate judge of any idea and its execution.
The "fans" (the people who post on boards and write in petitions) are a small part of the audience. You seem to forget that. You don't do stuff to satisfy a whooping 1% of your audience.


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Well, certainly! Why didn't I see that! Maybe Farscape would still be on if they simply turned their backs on the viewers and went in another, unrelated direction, leaving the fans scratching their heads in bewilderment! What a concept!

(That, by the way, was sarcasm. You get nowhere by abandoning your audience; you simply get an empty theater and a really quick closing.)
DS9 and SG1 prove that the fans will return if the new direction is as compelling than the original. George Lucas has basically abadoned the original fanbase and he is raking in the million from the new prequal.

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My heart goes out to you, Yminale. Do you ever have any fun?
I find great joy in reading the original material which has greater depth than any Hollywood movie. I don't need a popular movie franchise to justify my love for any creative work.


Quote:

You're dead on right when you say TV production is not a democracy. But as JSC1 said (and so well), it is a mistake to ignore an established audience; if I could guarantee a million viewers (or book buyers, or theater goers), do you think my ideas should be dismissed?
The point is there aren't a million die hard fans that will justify you're assumption. I believe the lates petition only has 16,000 signature. Compared that to the 4 million that watched BOTH nights of the mini.

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It would have been very easy to create a new Battlestar Galactica that the established audience could have embraced AND been something you would have enjoyed, too. For all the reasons that have been thrown back and forth over the weeks and months past, though, they opted to turn their backs on the established audience, alienate us.
But their only alienating a small number of you to gain a much higher number of new fans. It's worth the risk of you think about it.

Quote:

And with inferior material, which added insult to injury.
I think this an unfair point since this your personel opinion. Many people like the mini-series.

Quote:

What the mini did was to utilize the familiarity of the name to create interest - and it did not deliver. How many of us had friends who, when they first heard a new BSG was coming, thought they'd see more of what made TOS great, only to be shocked and saddened when the truth of the matter was revealed? I had two personal experiences. I know JSC1 had at least one, jjrakman more....
You can't say the mini-series failed or not until the series begins and there is a large sample of ratings. Your personel feelings don't mean anything. My friends and I are die hard Trek fans and we hate Enterprise but it's still on.


Quote:

BST is right on. We've become a throw-away society. BSG is just a TV show, true, but this is illustrative of what we've become. Please, go right ahead and overwrite something that had some substance simply because it is more convenient and less expensive to vomit forth some mindless dreck to gain some momentary - and purely financial - gain.

It's become the American Way.

I hope my point is clear. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
I'm sorry but you're atagonism to mini-series is just unfounded. The original is still out there waiting to be discovered by a new generation of fans. Nothing RDM or Universal or Sci-Fi does will change that. I still believe that Americans are capable of making great works from older works. SG1 is proof of that. Will BSG be next. I don't know because the mini-series can't really stand on it's own. You're cynical view of society maybe correct but it's too early to use BSG as proof.
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Old January 2nd, 2004, 11:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by JSC1
The ratings could have always been better. Those numbers could have been higher had the audience wishes had been honored.

And from what I've seen on an AP network news ratings sheet the second night barely broke into the top 15. Had the audience wishes been honored I believe that those numbers could have gone to the 4.0 5.0 range. But now we'll never know.
Sorry but no one has proved to me that there is the secret population of millions of die hard fan who will reactivate their undying love for BSG once a continuation begins. Let's be honest the vast majority of people who watched TOS only watched because the show entertained them and they formed no long term commitment to it. The numbers speak for themselves. There was no dropoff during the second night so people generally like what they saw. It had higher ratings than the Dune miniseries which has a larger fanbase and was more faithful to the source. It had a larger number than SG1 which is an ongoing series.

Quote:

You're right Hollywood is not a democracy, it's more like a dictatorship. And more times than not dictators are self serving, and do their actions at the people's expense instead of for the people. And the mini is a shining example of that.
If people watch the show than the execs are doing their jobs. They gambled that a reimagining would maximize their return. It's too early to tell if their wrong.

Quote:

And as for Enterprise catering to the fans wishes? I don't think so. If there was to be a prequel series I think fans would have preferred to see a Captain Sulu story where he's in command of the Excelsior. Berman wanted Enterprise.
The consensus among ST fans was "anything but Voyager" outside of that the sky was the limit. Berman and Braga decide to make Voyager2 (but it's a continuation so it should be welcomed by the fanbase )
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Old January 3rd, 2004, 04:12 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Yminale
It had higher ratings than the Dune miniseries which has a larger fanbase and was more faithful to the source.
Scifi in full spin mode was touting it as the third highest rating program after the Taken and Dune minis. You'd think if it did better than the Dune mini, then Scifi would have shouted it to the rafters, no?

Also, again I have to ask: It was the 3rd highest rating mini, out of how many, 3? How hard is it to be 3rd of 3?

If Scifi only made 3 minis, this means that G2003 was its worst homegrown mini to date.

Quote:
It had a larger number than SG1 which is an ongoing series.
If all the Scifi-made minis did better than the other shows Scifi airs that is good news for Scifi-made minis in general, but that's really as far as it goes.

A relatively expensive (for Scifi) mini did better ratings than its best ongoing series. Hmmm, yep, well, given the costs, Scifi would be thinking that as a "special event" (which is what a mini is) it damn well better do higher ratings - otherwise its a crash-and-burn from the pov of TPTB.

To top it off, the ratings for the mini weren't all that hot. A 2.9 isn't amazing by mini standards imo.


Quote:
When you try to apease a dedicated fanbase you usually get garbage (Enterprise comes to mind).
Why does Enterprise come to mind? Enterprise is garbage overall so far (with a few exceptions perhaps), but it has little more than a few tokens in it to appease the fans (the appearances of Andorians and perhaps Tholians come to mind). The substance of the show is no better for Trek than the G2003 is for BSG.

[Edited to correct a spelling error. - Cor]
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Old January 3rd, 2004, 07:25 AM   #19
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I'm thinking they are saying third highest rating at all.Mini, or series.
Pause to concider,this is around the top of the numbers they can realisticly expect.
All the shows they support like SG1,they support with a lower rating than the RDM BSG mini.
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Old January 3rd, 2004, 07:57 AM   #20
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I'm closing this thread for a while, to allow EVERYONE a chance to take a deep breath.

Remember, it's the issue that's being debated.


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