Was Obi-Wan Kenobi heartless and cruel ?

[gpdesigner]

warsies . . . .
TopGun, no problem . . . I am sure Qui-Gon was sore spot for Obi-Wan,
I am sure Lucas would have mentioned it if he knew he was going to to a back story.

But, I still contend that no matter how he felt after the fact, there was a bit of cruelty in Obi-Wans dealing with Anakin. Sorry gang . . this is what I believe.
When I first saw the film and witnessed that scene, I felt like most of you, and said Ohhhh! that's how it was done. But later I really thought about and said, How friggin' cruel was that, then he just walked away leaving him for dead.

Sure he may have felt totally devistated after the fact . . thining OMG what did i do but . . in the monment, he did a ginsu on Anakin and walked away . . .
I mean I squash insects all the time, and later I think "dang I didn't have to do that" However in the moment I 'm thinking . . .
3d

[gpdesigner]

Originally Posted by TopGun

Some Star Wars Fans could be called Bucket-Heads

bucket heads . . . D'oh!

hey wait a minuit, wouldn't those be starbuck fans?
3d

[TopGun]

You're entitled to your opioin offcourse, as are we all.

[gpdesigner]

Originally Posted by TopGun

You're entitled to your opioin offcourse, as are we all.

"so say we all"
3d

[julix]

well, that is not really a saying I use......but "live long and prosper" "may the force be with you"

[TopGun]

they are words to live by

[Lothos]

Why did Obi-wan tell Luke Yoda was the jedi master who instructed him?

<Scene: Hoth - A Half dead Luke Skywalker, exhausted and delirious, stumbles through the freezing frozen wastes of the Ice Planet>

Luke: <Thump>

Obi-Wan: Luke!!

Luke: Ben?!?

Obi-Wan: You must go to the degobah system....

Luke: Degobah system... ?!?! <WTF? (What the Frak)>

Obi-Wan: There you will find Yoda. He was the Jedi Master Who taught Count Dooku, who later went on to become Darth Tyranous who lead the confederate forces in the clone wars. <Luke starts to pass out> HEY!! Wake up boy!! I've got important information to impart on you... So anyway BEFORE he turned to the Dark Side Count Dooku trained Qui- Gon Jinn. Qui-Gon Jinn was the Jedi knight who taught me everything I know <Luke collapses again> AHEM!!! <Luke lifts his head> INCLUDING this ghost thing I'm doing here, which BTW is taking all sorts of hella effort to remain all coporeal!!!! ANYWAYS!!! Qui-Gon taught me how to be a Jedi but he got killed... So did mace Windu and all the other Jedi... But Yoda's Alive still.... And he''s on Degobah... So .. So go there... you still listening?!? Ah well ... Peace Out!!! <Obi-wan fades away.. Luke meanwhile is lying face up and about to swallow his own tongue when Han Solo appears on Tauntaun.>

Much different would be this movie if filmed this dialogue was , Yes?

[gpdesigner]

Originally Posted by Lothos

Much different would be this movie if filmed this dialogue was , Yes?

This is true, I am sure lots of things were cut out in order to make it short . . like the scene were Lea changes into that 2 piece out fit . . .
we didn't really see the footage but we know she changed clothes . . .
would have like to see that . . .

Santee

[Darrell Lawrence]

Give it a while. Lucas will again re-edit the originals and change certain dialogs to match the prequels

[bsg1fan1975]

To answer the matter of the question, I don't think that Obi Wan wanted to adopt the attitiude of "kick'em while their down" towards Anakin because he might have sensed something about Anakin's fate later on that would bring him back to the good side.

Anywho, that's just my take on this.

[kylebell]

My stand on it is that he felt that Anakin needed to be raised right. He wasn't cruel in his own eyes but might have been in Anakin's perception.

[Charybdis]

I think it's more that he thought Anakin was going to die there. After all, he had just gotten three limbs chopped off and been flamed up by lava!!!

and for why Ben says certain stuff that don't jibe with the prequels? the prequels were just gleamings in George's eyes back then!!!

[KJ]

Obi-Wan being a skilled "swordsman" knows the damage he is inflicting on Anakin as he is jumping through the air, in Fact Obi-Wan says, " The fight is over. . . I have the Higher ground." Knowing this . . and then inflicking the damage he did, why did he just kill Anakin instead of making him a basket case. You have to admit there is some sort of cruelty in that . . .

Eh?

Then how come Darth Maul didn't slice up Obi-Wan Kenobi when he jumped over him in the 'Power Generator' shaft in Episode 1? Maul blatantly had far more higher ground than Kenobi did in Episode 3. It's weak writing regardless of the fact Star Wars was once great (face it, its lost that cool edge it once had?).

Personally the battle between Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in episode 3 fell short of expectations most fans were hoping for years. Reasons for Anakin's turning to the darkside weren't that great at all nor was the fact Obi-Wan didn't suffer (wasn't Anakin supposed to be the better swordsman here?) any major injuries himself. His battle with General Grievous should've taken alot out of him, rather than the cake walk we saw in the film where Greivous is out fought easily by Kenobi? Wasn't General Greivous supposed to be a killer of Jedi who's reputation was killing multiple Jedi Knights in battle. Good as Obi-Wan is, Lucas messed up here making the fight so one-sided. Obi-Wan was meant to have a hard time beating Greivous in a lightsabre duel. The best duels in the prequels had the combatants going at it cos the stakes were very high. Obi-Wan Kenobi Vs Darth Maul was probably the best duel in the prequels cos both actors trained their asses off to make the fight something out of this world and storywise, the battle was furious cos the Sith and Jedi finally met once more after long period of time where one-side fought the other was long destroyed.

Palpatine Vs Mace Windu, Master Yoda Vs Count Dooku and Darth Sidious Vs Master Yoda were the other fights that had some meaning to their confrontations and were certain highlights during the series on which the outcome was most serious and had particular consequences afterwards. But the Anakin Obi-Wan duel fell short cos of Lucas' huge ego in making the prequels. No i'm not on another one of those Lucas bashing crusades, hell i saw and shook hands with him at the Episode 2 premiere. But George did mess up on Episode 3 for the reason of showing us how in his mind, Anakin became Darth Vader. I'm sure you didn't wait 28 plus years to see barely 2 minutes of Vader in the suit in Episode 3 and hardly use any dialogue once he was in that black suit and still bitching about Padme did you? I know i didn't, nor did tons of other fans out there. Anakin was supposed to fall like Lancelot and the Jedi Knights were supposed to challenge Anakin who had turned evil like the Dark Knight in medevial times and take him on in seperate duels after he killed his fellow Jedi Knights.

Yet Lucas kept the Jedi Temple slaughter all 'hush hush' and barely seen... WTF?

Obi-Wan was mis-handed in the end just as alot of things were in the prequels. We really didnt see much of Jedi training onscreen in the prequels and whatever was brought up was way too subtle or poorly written to be taken seriously or thought of in hindsight anyways except to the hardcores who love everything about Star Wars. If Star Wars is a modern mythology, why all the nerdy following then? Mythologies don't have geekyness around them.

Orginal trilogy was cool to follow, however too many cooks in the kitchen for the prequels kinda diluted the whole mystical level of entertainment and enjoyment for me and many others out there! That and wayyyyyy too many plotholes covered up by SW fans with poor, pitiful, excuses as to what happened for whatever bizarre reason (just browse through the letter pages of Star Wars magazine for proof?).

Obi-Wan had the highground alright, but so did Darth Maul and look what became of him? Sorry but that line just sucks and a major majority of SW fans and movie audiences knew it last year and all!

Lucas in his prequel years cares about CGI, merchandising and money not decent storytelling! If he did care at all, then they'd be less fan movies of the prequel trilogy by fans wanting to fix all his mistakes in making the new trilogy of Star Wars films. Ask yourself why there isn't as many fan edited movies of the original Star Wars Trilogy as there presently are for the recent prequel trilogy then? Cos its far more flawed thats why. Questions about the storylines and character arcs and behavior patterns in the prequels will always be debated over. Even though you know in the back of your minds the writing and direction of the prequels is just pretty poor to begin with (although i'll admit the action scenes and a few plot points are of interest). And you know that most of whats in the prequels wasn't from his famed "yellow binder" but as in the infamous Clerks cartoon episode, he probably made most of it up on the spot and did it over the weekend! There are way too many plotholes in the prequel for there to be any clear answers for what happened or started in the original trilogy. If George Lucas is starting a new Star Wars TV up, why is it based inbetween episodes 3 and 4? And not something new or set during the "Knights Of The Old Republic" era? And why an all new CGI Clone Wars cartoon series again set between Episodes 2 and 3? Shouldn't have all this been already covered in the prequels anyhow.

Seems Star Wars like Star Trek, has morphed into a greedy "cash cow" to keep pumping out recylced stuff Lucas SHOULD have put into the prequle movies, the same stuff the unfairly and harshly critised 'Star Wars Expanded Universe' does so beautifully well. All in the name of money!

Obi Wan Kenobi is hardly 'heartless and cruel' compared to the shameless cash cow Star Wars has become folks.

KJ

[spcglider]

Originally Posted by Santee

Ok before I get into me statement just a bit about the story line continuity.
I know the saga of Star Wars spans almost 30 years, and I think they really did a splendid job keeping the continuity of the story together . . . . .
However . .
episode 5:
Obi-wan appears to Luke in ghostly fashion, Just after Luke escapes the from the clutches of the Snow-Monster. While Luke is laying there Obi-Wan appears to him and clearly states that he should go to Degoba and learn from Yoda The Jedi Master who taught Obi-Wan . . . . Shouldn't that be Qui-Gon Jinn ?

I just thought I would mention that . . . .

Ok so to my statement: Was Obi-Wan Kenobi heartless and crule ?
episode 3 :
The Battle scene between Anakin and Obi-Wan was awesome to say the least, And I totally realize that Obi-Wan mission was to stop Anakin at cost. But after the movie the events that took place at the close of that battle set me uneasy about Obi-Wan.
What he did to Anakin was un-Jedi I thought. basically he left him badly burned, and crippled, which are injuries he himself inflicked for the most part. But after he damaged Anakin beyond any hope . . . . . he just turns and walks off.
he knew Anakin was still alive or ready to die at best, why would he just walk off and leave him in mortal pain until death considering what Anakin was to him.
Even I would have put a bullet in his head to end it, not just leave him charred and hobbled and waiting to die!
I just thought that was not in character for Obi-Wan

3d

As much as I absolutely hated the prequels, I can say that at the point you describe, Anikin is no longer a Jedi, but Sith. And that makes him unworthy of Jedi consideration. He made his choice to embrace the dark side. It could be that Obi-Wan couldn't feel any good left in him and decided that a firey death was appropriate. Besides... it completely handles the whole funeral pyre problem in one fell swoop.

-Gordon

[spcglider]

Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason

Eh?

Then how come Darth Maul didn't slice up Obi-Wan Kenobi when he jumped over him in the 'Power Generator' shaft in Episode 1? Maul blatantly had far more higher ground than Kenobi did in Episode 3. It's weak writing regardless of the fact Star Wars was once great (face it, its lost that cool edge it once had?).

Personally the battle between Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in episode 3 fell short of expectations most fans were hoping for years. Reasons for Anakin's turning to the darkside weren't that great at all nor was the fact Obi-Wan didn't suffer (wasn't Anakin supposed to be the better swordsman here?) any major injuries himself. His battle with General Grievous should've taken alot out of him, rather than the cake walk we saw in the film where Greivous is out fought easily by Kenobi? Wasn't General Greivous supposed to be a killer of Jedi who's reputation was killing multiple Jedi Knights in battle. Good as Obi-Wan is, Lucas messed up here making the fight so one-sided. Obi-Wan was meant to have a hard time beating Greivous in a lightsabre duel. The best duels in the prequels had the combatants going at it cos the stakes were very high. Obi-Wan Kenobi Vs Darth Maul was probably the best duel in the prequels cos both actors trained their asses off to make the fight something out of this world and storywise, the battle was furious cos the Sith and Jedi finally met once more after long period of time where one-side fought the other was long destroyed.

Palpatine Vs Mace Windu, Master Yoda Vs Count Dooku and Darth Sidious Vs Master Yoda were the other fights that had some meaning to their confrontations and were certain highlights during the series on which the outcome was most serious and had particular consequences afterwards. But the Anakin Obi-Wan duel fell short cos of Lucas' huge ego in making the prequels. No i'm not on another one of those Lucas bashing crusades, hell i saw and shook hands with him at the Episode 2 premiere. But George did mess up on Episode 3 for the reason of showing us how in his mind, Anakin became Darth Vader. I'm sure you didn't wait 28 plus years to see barely 2 minutes of Vader in the suit in Episode 3 and hardly use any dialogue once he was in that black suit and still bitching about Padme did you? I know i didn't, nor did tons of other fans out there. Anakin was supposed to fall like Lancelot and the Jedi Knights were supposed to challenge Anakin who had turned evil like the Dark Knight in medevial times and take him on in seperate duels after he killed his fellow Jedi Knights.

Yet Lucas kept the Jedi Temple slaughter all 'hush hush' and barely seen... WTF?

Obi-Wan was mis-handed in the end just as alot of things were in the prequels. We really didnt see much of Jedi training onscreen in the prequels and whatever was brought up was way too subtle or poorly written to be taken seriously or thought of in hindsight anyways except to the hardcores who love everything about Star Wars. If Star Wars is a modern mythology, why all the nerdy following then? Mythologies don't have geekyness around them.

Orginal trilogy was cool to follow, however too many cooks in the kitchen for the prequels kinda diluted the whole mystical level of entertainment and enjoyment for me and many others out there! That and wayyyyyy too many plotholes covered up by SW fans with poor, pitiful, excuses as to what happened for whatever bizarre reason (just browse through the letter pages of Star Wars magazine for proof?).

Obi-Wan had the highground alright, but so did Darth Maul and look what became of him? Sorry but that line just sucks and a major majority of SW fans and movie audiences knew it last year and all!

Lucas in his prequel years cares about CGI, merchandising and money not decent storytelling! If he did care at all, then they'd be less fan movies of the prequel trilogy by fans wanting to fix all his mistakes in making the new trilogy of Star Wars films. Ask yourself why there isn't as many fan edited movies of the original Star Wars Trilogy as there presently are for the recent prequel trilogy then? Cos its far more flawed thats why. Questions about the storylines and character arcs and behavior patterns in the prequels will always be debated over. Even though you know in the back of your minds the writing and direction of the prequels is just pretty poor to begin with (although i'll admit the action scenes and a few plot points are of interest). And you know that most of whats in the prequels wasn't from his famed "yellow binder" but as in the infamous Clerks cartoon episode, he probably made most of it up on the spot and did it over the weekend! There are way too many plotholes in the prequel for there to be any clear answers for what happened or started in the original trilogy. If George Lucas is starting a new Star Wars TV up, why is it based inbetween episodes 3 and 4? And not something new or set during the "Knights Of The Old Republic" era? And why an all new CGI Clone Wars cartoon series again set between Episodes 2 and 3? Shouldn't have all this been already covered in the prequels anyhow.

Seems Star Wars like Star Trek, has morphed into a greedy "cash cow" to keep pumping out recylced stuff Lucas SHOULD have put into the prequle movies, the same stuff the unfairly and harshly critised 'Star Wars Expanded Universe' does so beautifully well. All in the name of money!

Obi Wan Kenobi is hardly 'heartless and cruel' compared to the shameless cash cow Star Wars has become folks.

KJ

I agree, but in a much less locquacious fashion.

My eight-year-old imagination was MUCH better than what the movie prequels showed us. Lucas ruined the entire mystique of his own creation because he was lazy and had blown his wad in the so-called middle trilogy. He didn't have anything, so he raped his own backstory for a script... and a poor script at that.

Not to put too fine of a point on it. Just my opinion.

-Gordon

[KJ]

Originally Posted by spcglider

I agree, but in a much less locquacious fashion.

To each his own then.

Originally Posted by spcglider

My eight-year-old imagination was MUCH better than what the movie prequels showed us. Lucas ruined the entire mystique of his own creation because he was lazy and had blown his wad in the so-called middle trilogy. He didn't have anything, so he raped his own backstory for a script... and a poor script at that.

Not to put too fine of a point on it. Just my opinion.

-Gordon

Surrounded by way too many "yes men" and not enough strong willed producers like Gary Kurtz or a Harrison Ford type on set demanding bigger and better changes to the scripts was another issue. Most of the actors just simply wanted to just be in Star Wars movie, can't blame them really but look what mindless devotion did to somebody like Ahmed Best playing Jar jar Binks? no wonder the poor guy hasn't done a signing tour with the rest of the actors/extras? at conventions. The reaction to him might be beyond "sub par" to say the least.

I often ask myself why talented artist 'Doug Chiang' lefted after Episode 2? how come he didn't see this thing through. John Dykstra and Gary Kurtz on the original Star Wars films didn't see the trilogy through to the end either due to creative differences. Wonder why Chiang left midway through the prequels.

On the earlier Qui-Gon Jinn debate here. I say he wasn't mentioned before cos Lucas didn't workout his so-called epic backstory enough or bother to mention him in the original trilogy for whatever reasons at the time? He could've mentioned Mace Windu on the other hand, as his name appears in the early drafts of Star Wars. Personally like Darth Maul, both of them needed more backstory told cos they only appeared once in Episode 1. Maul needed a hell of alot more lines and Qui-Gon Jinn could've had more elaborated on him since George Lucas wasn't even sure if he'd bring him back as a "force ghost" or something or other.

Heck Qui-Gon's knowledge of this which he teaches Yoda later on should've be referenced in the movie. And i always figured Obi-Wan Kenobi's past as a young Jedi in training could've dealt with more backstory and all.

Far as the Sith goes, all that Sith Empire, Sith Witch, Darth Bane, Exar Kun, the Sith Lord's fall, Aura Sing, Asai Ventress, Prince Xizor, Grand Admiral Thrawn EU stuff could've been added and referenced had Lucas adaptated the story to be more flexible and include all new concepts. But he stole Exar Kun's "double bladed" Lightsabre outright and gave it to Darth Maul though? (so why not reference some more stuff?). Seeing and reading all of this in novel, comics, graphic novels and playing video games is all neat, but since anything thats in the films is treated as "canon" i'd prefer it if all of that mentioned was put into the movies instead.

Yeah Lucas missed the boat with alot of stuff we saw in the prequels besides cocking up the Jedi and Sith. We all know Naboo was probably an early attempt to shove Alderaan into the films before it morphed into Naboo. Alderaan still is that mere planet thats unknown to us, unvisited which happens to 'blows up' in Episode 4. Surely the backstory to the original trilogy was supposed to include Alderaan as a major element in the first 3 Episodes. and we all know the clone wars meant just that, not a battle between Clones and Droids (isn't that more or less along the lines of the Droids Vs Clones War then?)

I suppose the upcoming TV series will expand on the errors of the prequels too. But lets hope the writers and show runners for the show are smart enough to fix'em though.

KJ