Enough is enough, damn it!

["T"]

Speaking as a fan of both series,

I think Ron Moore did a good job with new series, the new more violent BSG actully to me made more sense than the original pilot of the TOS how any group of military vessels could stand there and not fire back untill destroyed made me totally sick (the fact that I was 8 when I first saw BSG in the late 80's) it made me turn and ask my dad "Why wont they shoot back?"

I thought the pilot was the weakest attribute to the BSG series, and the fact that the New BSG showed that although the colonials DID try to fight (And not sit there giving peace signs to everyone) just came accross more real to me.

If I was at a convention I would congratualte Mr, Moore on a fresh take on BSG while probably beeing pelted with vegtables for my crimes

I think (And it is a personal humble opinion) that to many people wanted a continuation of a late 70's Idea, and I dont think that is commericaly viable nowadays people dont watch ST. Enterprise because unlike the last series of DS9 its not dark and "edgy" enough BSG 03 has brought forward a huge boost to people looking for BSG related material on-line and it shops and I wonder how many BSG'ers really thought that a 1970's show could keep running for ever? you and I both know that eventually the re-runs would stop, the Fanbase dissolve slowly and that would be it.

I think the new Remake has legthened the life span of an ageing idea, and as was said earlier its brought new interest to the Community new people discovering the delights of TOS as well as the interesting Edgy re-make.

At teh end of the day even if you never decide to watch the remake I put TOS to one side the new series in the other and im thankfull for both I get to watch the new I suppose "re-hashed" episodes with a 21st century spin and I get to see the Classic series withits original thoughts best of both worlds

-"T"-

[Dawg]

"T", I agree with you that if the 1978 Saga of a Star World were attempted now it would fail. The audience has changed, expectations are different.

But the story created then could be told in a way that is acceptable to today's more sophisticated audience.

That's been my point for the past year.

Instead of actually recreating BSG for the 21st Century, the Hydra (Hammer/Moore/Eick) ignored it and created an entirely new universe, based the characters on the characters in a WWII movie, put them in Vipers and a carrier ship named "Galactica".

I'm not going to say it was poorly executed - there are many who actually liked it, and many of them, like you, are TOS fans. It's just that I still fail to see a whole lot of BSG in the "new BSG".

Perhaps you can show me what I'm missing.

I am
Dawg

["T"]

LOL you cant take TOS out of BSG but I doubt neither can you add to it.


To me The Hydra as you put it (Most amusing!) has created a different perspective on the entire BSG stance and senarios, I mean I still think that the 1978 Pilot's begining was awful a fleet of full military Cap ships sit there and get wrecked without firing a return shot.

If they re did the pilot to todays standards with that storyline there would be outcry about how unlikely that was. (By new BSG fans, old fans would be dribbling as the Atlantia blew up in 03 tech CGI style)

I watched the pilot again today (gotta love DVD's!!) and in my head put in the new cast and ship, it does work but only partly. (I prefer the old Bridge BTW!)

Perhaps were not to look into the new BSG with old BSG eyes but look into the new BSG as a different chapter a way that it could have happened, after all if the new Series does well and shakes off the curse of previous incarnations (Cancelled after one series) we might be looking at a future viable franchise, what could be better than having a big BSG prequel in the cylon war time!!! (Lots of Battlestars fleet actions and such)

Screw ST + SW, BSG may finally come of age (About bloody time to!)

I dont intend to try to change your views, Old is good we can learn from old, but...and this is probably a poor analogy, you would not buy a brand new PC system if it had the same parts in from a 1978 PC's workings.

-"T"-

[Dawg]

I follow that, "T", but it neglects the option of taking the '78 raw data and placing it in 2003 technology.

Moore didn't even try to do that.



I am
Dawg

[Raymar3d]

"To me The Hydra as you put it (Most amusing!) has created a different perspective on the entire BSG stance and senarios, I mean I still think that the 1978 Pilot's begining was awful a fleet of full military Cap ships sit there and get wrecked without firing a return shot."

Two words: PEARL HARBOR

[thomas7g]

Yeah... I was going to mention Pearl Harbor.

I actually thought the first hour of BG was probably the best of the whole series. I actually thought the new one lacked cause until the last ten minutes, you never actually saw the cylons in any large quantities. You saw explosions from nowhere. No ships. Agreeably as the one attack that's normal, but cinematography wise it was really missing. You never got the feeling that there was this huge military armada that the colonials needed to run from was out there until the last few minutes. So WHY would they consider running? I kinda feel like EJO gave up the colonies too easily.

Just my opinion though.

["T"]

Pearl harbour Well ok I suppose in a way but those Battlestars lasted long enough to return fire....it just does not sit right with me


Damn bald git I hated that head council dudes voice anyway

-"T"-

[thomas7g]

Which one? President Adar before the destruction or Alfred Hyde White's character afterwards?

I kinda relate President Adar to President Carter. Both were extremely good hearted noble men at a time when a someone who could see darkness in others were needed. Both saw goodness in everyone and lacked the ability to handle powerful evil forces.

Though BG1 predated President Carter I think...


I agree with you about the Battlestars, but battlestars throughout the series tended to be kinda useless without their fighters. Maybe that's makes sense cause if you take a modern aircraft carrier without fighters its an unarmed sitting duck. All the firepower and the defense is in the fightercraft.

[jewels]

Carter was contemporary to BSG: elected in 1976, Innaugerated Jan, 1977, Camp David Peace Accord signed by Begin and Sadat: Sept. 17, 1978 10:30 pm EDT (why would all of us know that?? ) and the hostage crisis in Iran would start a little more than a year after that....444 days before Ronald Regan's Innaugaration in Jan, 1981. And Anwar Sadat would be assasinated with in a few years of the peace accord signing.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by T

Pearl harbour Well ok I suppose in a way but those Battlestars lasted long enough to return fire....it just does not sit right with me


Damn bald git I hated that head council dudes voice anyway

-"T"-

Actually Adama wanted to return fire but was DENIED permission by the
President who was fooled by Baltar. That is what caused the death of his
son Zac who was just coming withen reach of the landing bay. It was the
council of twelve that caused the holocaust by the cylons by refusing the
battlestars permission to defend theirselves and their homes/colonies.

["T"]

Battlestars were not bad although big pasty targets Galactica did get quite a few cylon fighters........I dunno what we need is using a Recent Game (Bridgecommander?/Freespace2) get an accurate rep of a Base Star and a Battlestar and start slugging it

-"T"-

["T"]

But bagsie me in the NEW BSG then I can use those groovy weapons and Turetts
(Which even the most LOYAL TOS fan would have to say shooting up all those Cylons and thier missiles were sweet, BSG bears its teeth!)

"T"

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by thomas7g

Which one? President Adar before the destruction or Alfred Hyde White's character afterwards?

I think the reference was to Sire Uri.

Originally Posted by thomas7g

Though BG1 predated President Carter I think...

Not if the premier was interrupted on the west coast by the mideast peace news, it didn't. Carter was President then.

Originally Posted by thomas7g

I agree with you about the Battlestars, but battlestars throughout the series tended to be kinda useless without their fighters. Maybe that's makes sense cause if you take a modern aircraft carrier without fighters its an unarmed sitting duck. All the firepower and the defense is in the fightercraft.

Actually, the old girl had some firepower herself, as witnessed by the end of Greetings from Earth and the end of Living Legend - just not really great against individual fighters. Meant to fight other capital ships, not individual fighters.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this....

I am
Dawg

[amberstar]

"Twenty years after the destruction of the colonies, the Galactica is nearly hopeless for finding the mythical earth, and the people are ready to settle somewhere hospitable and forget Adama’s insane quest. A new generation of warriors has grown up alongside of the veteran warriors who are now moving into command positions on the Galactica, and the young warriors have never faced a real cylon, only simulations. It’s not real to them. But it will be when the cylons return to attack again. That’s what I want to see. That’s what I worked on with “Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming.” For all intents and purposes, I’ve got my continuation already. I just wish everyone could see it whenever they wanted to, not just at conventions."

Raymar, How I wish this could be! I understand that there are legal issues that prevent this, but I would LOVE to see The Second Coming.
From what I have heard it is what we have been wanting, and everyone could see that a continuation would really work.

Amber

[kingfish]

Originally Posted by thomas7g

Which one? President Adar before the destruction or Alfred Hyde White's character afterwards?

I kinda relate President Adar to President Carter. Both were extremely good hearted noble men at a time when a someone who could see darkness in others were needed. Both saw goodness in everyone and lacked the ability to handle powerful evil forces.

Though BG1 predated President Carter I think...


I agree with you about the Battlestars, but battlestars throughout the series tended to be kinda useless without their fighters. Maybe that's makes sense cause if you take a modern aircraft carrier without fighters its an unarmed sitting duck. All the firepower and the defense is in the fightercraft.

From what I recall a Battlestar does have teeth as witnessed in The Living Legend episode where Cain uses the Pegasus' missiles to destroy two Basestars. Sadly the Pegasus isn't heard from again. :laugh:

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by kingfish

From what I recall a Battlestar does have teeth as witnessed in The Living Legend episode where Cain uses the Pegasus' missiles to destroy two Basestars. Sadly the Pegasus isn't heard from again. :laugh:

BSG never came out and said that the Pegasus was destroyed. As a matter
of fact Commander Adama and those under his command went out of their
way to say that COmmander Cain and the Pegasus could have survived and
was simply maintaining radio silence as he had when he escaped the cylons
before and went into deep space.

[kingfish]

I was just having some fun.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by kingfish

I was just having some fun.

Sorry I had that dream again about BSG and OPPOSITE commands and
such ........woke up with ONE MOTHER OF A MIGRANE ........I'm a little
Sllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww on the
jokes tonight

[repcisg]

Wow for a few minutes I thought my screen was going to catch fire, this is one hot thread. Glad I have my hot coffee to put out the fire.

all kidding aside, relax guy’s its only a TV show.

Richard, Dirk, Herb and all the others are reasonably smart people. The have a fairly good handle on how things work by now. Richard has already made it clear he’s not interested in anything to do with RDM or his mini. And I don’t see Dirk running to join up either. Herb is nowhere to be seen. So relax.

Lets enjoy the evening air, smell the roses, or your favorite adult beverage, which ever floats your boat. Now for me a nice old single malt scotch, cut with spring water, served neat. Ah, to smell the heather of the highlands once more.

Ops - sorry, drifting there.

Lets see, oh yes. One other thing - Pegasus. When Glen wrote the original story he signed a separate contract for that story, he owns it I do believe, lock stock and oak barrel. It was his plan to spin Pegasus off from Battlestar. Universal & ABC could run Battlestar Galactica the way they wanted and he would a Pegasus series. Well as we all know it didn’t work out that way. But rest assured, the Pegasus did survive and now orbits Glens heart.

[jewels]

But rest assured, the Pegasus did survive and now orbits Glens heart.

I think that is possibly the best way that's ever been explained. :laugh:

I keep telling Titon that our ships have a Phoenix complex.....rising from the ashes.... to fight Cylons once again.

[repcisg]

Indeed they will!

Why?

Because the fans have heart and the story a soul.

["T"]

He made it, Either that or lloyd bridges nicked the model and ran for it


-"T"-

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by repcisg

Wow for a few minutes I thought my screen was going to catch fire, this is one hot thread. Glad I have my hot coffee to put out the fire.

all kidding aside, relax guy’s its only a TV show.

Richard, Dirk, Herb and all the others are reasonably smart people. The have a fairly good handle on how things work by now. Richard has already made it clear he’s not interested in anything to do with RDM or his mini. And I don’t see Dirk running to join up either. Herb is nowhere to be seen. So relax.

Lets enjoy the evening air, smell the roses, or your favorite adult beverage, which ever floats your boat. Now for me a nice old single malt scotch, cut with spring water, served neat. Ah, to smell the heather of the highlands once more.

Ops - sorry, drifting there.

Lets see, oh yes. One other thing - Pegasus. When Glen wrote the original story he signed a separate contract for that story, he owns it I do believe, lock stock and oak barrel. It was his plan to spin Pegasus off from Battlestar. Universal & ABC could run Battlestar Galactica the way they wanted and he would a Pegasus series. Well as we all know it didn’t work out that way. But rest assured, the Pegasus did survive and now orbits Glens heart.

Thanks for the Info!

On the Jimmy Carter posts:
TOS in general and Saga of a Star World in particular were obvious analogies to the Cold War situation at the time (1978), especially growing up in a military family as I did. Our view of the "Peace" Movement, the weakness of the President, and fear of being destroyed in a Soviet first strike was all played out in Saga of A Star World. As Moore mentions it is also part of the reason Saga of A Star World could not be made today. The mini is 9/11 while TOS was the Cold War turned hot.

A positive thing about the Desanto Continuation versus the mini:
As long as Moore's series ends before or without finding Earth the Desanto Continuation could fit into either Battlestar universe. The only difference would be the last names and uniforms. I could see a Desanto continuation in 4 or 5 years where a woman named Kara Thrace or a man named Tyrol is Orin's (Boxey's) mentor and everything else is exactly as the script reads now. If the Moore series is a success this would be the more likely outcome anyway. We would all be one happy family or Desanto would be the newest sell out depending on your view of things.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by jewels

I think that is possibly the best way that's ever been explained. :laugh:

I keep telling Titon that our ships have a Phoenix complex.....rising from the ashes.... to fight Cylons once again.

They certainly do Jewels. I never thought of it as a 'Phoenix complex'
before ...........well said.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by repcisg

Indeed they will!

Why?

Because the fans have heart and the story a soul.

Repcisg ...............You said it BEAUTIFULLY!

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by thomas7g

Maybe not. But wouldn't it have been FUN to make him face thousands of angry fans!?!?!?

If I thought it would make a difference with him ........................

I'd say Yes.

[repcisg]

Just a passing thought. We all know how TV exec's like to copy what works. Well for BG there is nothing to copy from. They don't know what to do, but turn to SciFi wanabee's like Moore.

Why not get behind Richard and find ways to help him bring Magellen forward. Let the Exec's see what we realy like and why they are missing the boat on BG.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by repcisg

Just a passing thought. We all know how TV exec's like to copy what works. Well for BG there is nothing to copy from. They don't know what to do, but turn to SciFi wanabee's like Moore.

Why not get behind Richard and find ways to help him bring Magellen forward. Let the Exec's see what we realy like and why they are missing the boat on BG.

My 'THOUGHTS' Exactly!

[amberstar]

That sounds great to me repcisg! Magellen is AMAZING!!!!!!!!

Amber