Why are TOS 'fan films' not even mediocre when compared to this?

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by TwoBrainedCylon

Don,

This is why I don't think the challenges are technology. I think its time, copyright, and fanbase support.

Lastly, glad you like Exodus. I'm pretending it doesn't exist. It was a good learning project but now just thinking about the bad quality of the piece makes me wince. That's why I hire professional actors these days.

I'll stop babbling now.

All my best,


Russell

It is as you say Fanbase support that will make a fan film effort worth while. Copyright is something outside my knowledge and know very little about.

Star Trek new voyage have done a incredible job and even as you are sure to know have the support of many of the actors and writers of the original show.

I tend to focus on the CGI aspect for the reasons you mention "geographically near the right resources" it would have to be in the USA for it to work.

I would love to see a live action BSG related story done.

Lastly, glad you like Exodus. I'm pretending it doesn't exist. It was a good learning project but now just thinking about the bad quality of the piece makes me wince. That's why I hire professional actors these days.

wha, I think it a excellent self contained story. it carried me along very well.

[martok2112]

I agree. A lot of stuff in sci-fi film making that looks so sophisticated is really very simple. It's a lot of light, shadow, smoke and mirrors, and an ingenious redirection of audience attention that makes simple effects appear to become larger than life.

I get amazed at what I see done by the average Joe in terms of VFX these days, stuff that easily compares with visuals on at least a television standard of sophistication (on the level of Firefly or new BSG). I become envious of their computing power. Even with the powerhouse computers I have, I can't quite render anything on that level...of course, I'm sure that has to do as much with my very amateurish skills at this point.

To deal with some of the limitations I have, I use a technique I like to call "Neo-Old School". Using old school techniques to workaround new tech limitations to achieve a sophisticated result. (Example: when shooting a fleet shot, I can only put a couple of high poly ships on screen at once...so I set up the entire fleet shot against a virtual blue or green screen. Then, after saving the project, I delete which ships I do not need for the first pass, shoot the ships that remain, reload the project, delete the used ships and the ships I don't need for the next pass...lather, rinse, repeat. After all shots have been completed, I shoot the background pass, and then composite it all in a movie editor. It is the same technique used for physical models in the old ways...and I get a surprisingly good result out of it.)

[Titon]

Thanks for the kudo's Sandy...it's appreciated. I agree on one thing. After Effects CS5 is a pretty amazing piece of software. In fact it's taken a step closer to being a stand alone package for modeling as well sorta speak. It's even more advanced with the newest 5.5 update. It provides a "warp Stabalizer" that basically takes the ability to take shaky camera movement out of the picture. Pretty amazing stuff.

Again i guess it's what is best for each individual and i've spent to much time trying to be perfect...quite frankly i don't see that as a need at this point.

[peter noble]

As Russell and Don know, I'm not a big fan of CG, it's overused and looks far too cartoony for my liking, though just lately, I've liked the stuff in Thor and Captain America.

I think Russell's getting too hung up on the copyright issue, I don't think Universal have come down on the guy who made the video I posted, it is what is, a piece of fun, a tribute, not a commercial enterprise.

To me, without knowing the technicalities, it had the look of the new series, the music was well chosen, there was some good animation/choreography and the editing was okay.

It was all done by one bloke in Australia. One bloke!

All I've read in this thread is a lot of excuses why everyone can't do anything.

Get off the pot and do something.

Don's the best 'amateur' CG modeller of TOS BG there probably is. David Kerin is by far the best animator and some of the patience he's shown and technical trickery he's pulled off in doing his re-edits are as good as some of the greats of Hollywood VFX.

Russell has a wealth of production and post production knowledge.

How long as this board existed now, how long is it going to exist with the apathy towards TOS and 60-odd active members? Professional results are possible with the tech you've got at your fingertips right now!

Somebody rise to the challenge and knock my socks off for five minutes.

You've all got an imagination, if you want to recreate TOS models there is more info out there now in the last four-five years than there has been in decades. You don't even have to follow the screen models, extrapolate what a Viper might look like 30 years on, or what the Galactica might look like, or what the Cylons might develop.

Don, as regards your G, I think the scenario you've come up with to further your model is the way to go.

You've got the basic shape exactly right and most of the major shapes. Embracing what CG can bring to the table can only free your imagination and cut down the time to finish the bloddy thing!

Plus, you don't have to spend thousands of $s on Ebay buying old model kits!

Best,

Peter

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Agreed about the copyright thing. IIRC, only Paramount/Viacom really had their insipid slash and burn policy regarding Trek-related fan-made efforts, be it in the form of video, blueprints or garage kits. Don't think Universal got hung-up on such things and may have even considered it as an effective form of free advertising, as it should be. George Lucas also generally embraced the "Extended Universe" concept, allowing others to flesh out the empty spaces in his world, with the understanding that he has final say on what becomes canon and what stays fanon. As a result, fan projects have flourished and have come out looking like high-quality studio productions (anyone remember the I.M.P.S. project?)

So, it may be more do-able than we realize.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by peter noble

All I've read in this thread is a lot of excuses why everyone can't do anything.

Get off the pot and do something.

How long as this board existed now, how long is it going to exist with the apathy towards TOS and 60-odd active members? Professional results are possible with the tech you've got at your fingertips right now!


Peter

These are not excuses but facts as they stand. I don´t
have time for any other cgi projects until I finish my
own. its more important to me. I don´t have time
even for the project I started up here ie the tech manual


why don´t you get of the pot and you do something
instead of telling us to.

who is going to lead the way on it, as pointed out
that´s what we need,
I have been involved in 3 fan films and none of them
have reach .. anywhere !!! they died a death.
14th colony was in operation for 3 or 4 years and
they vanished as did the site, and not a word was
given so my enthusiasm for such is at the lowest ebb
for fan films,

I do enjoy looking at the works done by others.

unless some core members here (this been the
home BSG fan forum) get involved, I won´t be its
simple as that.

I would want to see the completed draft story first before anything else.

touching on the CGI aspect.
As far as I can see it would be the cheapest route to go down
as it would be all in a HD. its the main reason I support it over
live action.

Live action you need costumes, power to run electronics,
cameras, make buy or build blue-screens, build sets. buy the
wood to build sets. etc.

Star Trek is much easier to work on than BSG ..... it just a bigger beast to handle. the Bridge alone

who has the money for that at this time I know I don´t?!

just my thoughts on this

[peter noble]

Originally Posted by Taranis

why don´t you get of the pot and you do something
instead of telling us to.

I can write five minutes and 49 seconds of action but have no desire to learn CG, in fact, I'd rather watch paint dry.

Besides, what's the point of writing five minutes and 49 seconds of action when no bugger's going to animate it?

[TwoBrainedCylon]

To be fair, I may have shifted this more towards the abilities of the known members than the video in question. I apologize for that.

I concur with most of Gerard's statements. I differ in him in one aspect but need to refine my perspective to explain why.

He's right that an animated video would be the cheapest and easiest route to take to make a video. I still contend that live action would be the easiest and quickest route to make something at the level of quality in which I'd want my name attached to it. That's just me and I'll not pretend I have answers that work for anyone else.

As for the copyright issue, I'll leave that tabled for another time.

All my best,


Russell

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by peter noble

I can write five minutes and 49 seconds of action but have no desire to learn CG, in fact, I'd rather watch paint dry.

Besides, what's the point of writing five minutes and 49 seconds of action when no bugger's going to animate it?

lol

you can write, something I cannot with any success having
tried

Nor can I animate, I tried it years ago and now I only model.
its a skill I would have to redevelop. and in modelling I am captain slow.
having been a painter in my past I would like to be a CGer over watching the paint dry .

I would love to see a BSG production of what ever style.

Live actors would be a lot better.

If I could write or suggest to be written idea for such a live action fan film. I would (to save expanses) move the story away from the Galactica itself.

perhaps to another ship in the fleet perhaps a smaller military
ship that herds the slower ships and build a story around them. with appearances from Adama or Apollo etc over the course of the story.

just another thought

Originally Posted by peter noble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfBHDBtMFs8

Thanks for posting that
very well done, and it's from oz Had to watch that a few times.

As far as fan based endeavors go, I'm on my own. Out of all the people I know
personally, none of them know anything about BSG or what it is. Others that
do, only know of what was briefly on free to air TV, 5 or so years ago with
Moores mash up, who didn't know an original series in the 70's existed.

It's literally unheard of. There's another reason why it's difficult to do a fanfilm. living in a sheltered country town .... ;-)

I'm not going to go into why i cant do mine, that's already been previously said in this thread.

cheers.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by TwoBrainedCylon

He's right that an animated video would be the cheapest and easiest route to take to make a video. I still contend that live action would be the easiest and quickest route to make something at the level of quality in which I'd want my name attached to it. That's just me and I'll not pretend I have answers that work for anyone else.

Russell

It would be a lot easier to have real people act out a scene rather than having an animator create the movement and facial expressions necessary in cgi to tell the story.

It would be interesting to see what the members here thing of doing a live action film, seen how much support could be gained
by this forum alone.

how about an experiment to see what could be done ::?
Perhaps a Poll could be held to see what the response would be,
in addition to see how many would be interested, we would need to know where they live in the world.

Live action film would need to be done where the greatest amount of members live within a few hours of each other.

I sure some acting parts could be arranged out side the fan base.

Its the behind the scenes crew that would have to be filled before anything could be done.

Oh and a complete story draft.

This is how I see it at the moment.

A general question to all members ..... want a friendly Poll to see if this fan forum can rise to a fan film challenge set down
by Peter.