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Old December 2nd, 2006, 05:07 AM   #1
skippercollecto
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Default Why watch a show if you don't like it?

As I've mentioned elsewhere, my favorite show this fall is Jericho. Like all shows, it is flawed. No series will ever be perfect. But this isn't a question about Jericho specifically. It's a question about TV viewing and Internet participation.
I realize that Internet discussion groups can be wonderful time-wasters--I'm VERY guilty of this myself--but I don't join discussion groups for topics--whatever they might be--of things I don't like or don't agree with. But I've discovered that there is a very large cyberspace population that goes out of its way to complain about something they don't like. I'm not talking about big political topics such as the war in Iraq, abortion, the economy, etc. I'm talking about pop culture.
I've tried joining several different discussion groups in the past few weeks for the show, and at least two-thirds of the members DON'T like Jericho, and go out of their way to mention the show's flaws. They outnumber the fans at least two to one. These folks--this is particularly true in the Television Without Pity group--watch the show, and I think many of them record it to watch it a second time just so they can pick it apart. They never have anything nice to say. TWoP encompasses many, many programs, and its members complain about EVERYTHING! It's why I unsubscribed to that web site.
There have been many, many series over the years that I didn't care for. Some of them I made an effort to watch because everyone else was talking about them, but I either got bored or didn't like the characters and so went on to something else. I have better things to do with my time than force myself to view something that annoyed me. I certainly don't have the time to watch something twice that I don't like and then get on the Internet to write about it every day or every week!
Are there that many people out there who have enough time to do such a silly thing as regulary critique a show they cannot stand? Or are their more masochists out there than I realize?
Again, this question isn't about any show in particular. It's a generic question.
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 05:35 AM   #2
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Good Question .. some people can be quite miserable.. getting pleasure belittling the enjoyment of others .. I one the other hand don't watch at all what I don't enjoy .. but I also don't go around saying I don't enjoy it .. that's just me.

Example .. FireFly .. I don't really like it , I have been trying to the last few week to get in to it.. I cannot .. most site I hang out in .. the member love it .

But I don't search out these threads saying how much they enjoyed it . to have me come long saying its rubbish. (which I am not , it just does not appeal to me )


What ever floats your boat .. it cool with me ...
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 08:22 AM   #3
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Spme times it takes 2-3 weeks to start to catch onto a show. Sometimes it is a matter of keeping peace in the family.
For myself, it is a rule of thumb test. If I watch a show for 2-3 complete episdes and it does not get taken off, I figure there must be something I am missing on. Take friends. During its regular run, I doubt if I watched three complete episodes. But after it went into syndication, I started to catch on that there was usulally one five-minute skit buried in the show that was absolutely hilarious good. The rest of the show was junk, but the skit was a riot, and I could see why poeple liked it in the first place.
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 02:47 PM   #4
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Going out of ones way to belittle a show simply because one doesn't like it is pretty lame. However when a show goes out of its way to belittle an existing audience (like Gino) then I say it is fair game. Fans of a show that is built on controversy should not in my opinion be surprised when discussions of said show become controversial.

There is also a difference between going out of ones way to come down on a show as opposed to telling someone "you're missing out!" That is expressing love for a show and in a way shows a certain amount of respect for the other person. It is something they enjoy and wish that someone they are talking to to enjoy as well. It is the exact opposite of saying "your show sucks." With that in mind, it is important to see the difference between the two when talking to other fans. I know some Gino fans that bring up their show to me not to slam the original series (indeed they may know very little about it) but to say "you're missing out". I just tell them it is not for me, I'm a die hard fan of the original.

Now a fan that says "it is better than the original"... the gloves are off and they asked for it.
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 03:02 PM   #5
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Monolith21

If we could possibly continue this discussion without dragging TNS into it, it would be much appreciated. We set that policy almost a year ago and we expect all our members to adhere to it.

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Old December 2nd, 2006, 03:24 PM   #6
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Mary,

That's a good question.

That question has several answers and, unfortunately, one of them is just simple mean-spiritedness. Some people are simply miserable and just cannot tolerate anyone else getting any type of enjoyment out of anything, whether it be a TV show, a book or song, or a sunny day.

I pity those people....yes, pity.
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 04:37 PM   #7
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I am a compulsive buyer of TV on DVD because I like to try things on a blind buy now and then. Twice, I have realized I made a giant mistake in doing that. The first was with "Murphy Brown" where I wrongly thought it's first season from 1988 would be less political than it became in later years. Wrong! It was so in-your-face obnoxious that I finally had enough and threw the set away, figuring why should I stick with this.

I also tried to get into X-Files when the season sets were discounted and bought several seasons on blind buys. Other big mistake as I found the show deadly dull and devoid of any real suspense because if you run into the supernatural *every* week then frankly you can't possibly generate terror or mystery because you're stuck in a rut. But ironically, what finally made me decide after going through 1.25 seasons worth that it wasn't worth going further was when I started watching more episodes of the old "FBI" series with Efrem Zimbalist (which I have become hooked to), and I realized that the thing I couldn't stand most about "X-Files" was its total lack of authenticity regarding the FBI and FBI procedure.

So to bring this back to the question of the thread, I did something about it and I'm auctioning those DVD sets off on e-bay if anyone wants them (they've got bonus discs!). The upshot is one should *not* watch a show that they find a tedious chore to get through and if they think there's an obligation to do it just because the video's on the shelf. If you're not liking it, don't watch it and get rid of the video.

An unmentionable show I treat differently, because there is an element of evaluation one day I would like to do based on marathon viewing, which I view more in the context of a research project like I've done with movies I know I hate. That *general* reason, is I think the only legitimate one one has for watching something they don't like, if there is a broader research goal behind it.
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 06:36 PM   #8
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Mary -

I'm going to attempt to address your question while sticking with the particular show you mentioned, namely Jericho.

I've been watching the show from the first week with a friend of mine. After the first few episodes, we started questioning the direction of the show and the stories each week and noted some plot holes you could drive a truck through. I kept watching despite the flaws, but my friend bailed on the show after 4 episodes. I still see the flaws and don't enjoy the show as much as I did in the beginning, but then again, it's not a re-run and it's on at 7pm here in Sacramento, so it doesn't interfere with other prime time programming that I might be tempted to watch. Basically, it's gone from the "must watch" category, to "If I care to watch" category. I've only missed one epsiode completely, but it's easy to catch up in the first few minutes of the following week, so it didn't hurt any.

My friend has asked about the show and I keep her updated on the "high" points, but her continued interest is only casual and probably won't go past that point.

Jericho isn't necessarily a "bad " show, it's well intentioned, but it's not as good of a show that it could be. I'm still watching anyways, go figure.

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Old December 2nd, 2006, 08:55 PM   #9
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There are a lot of reasons to watch a show you consistently find problems with.

It's possible that you have a well-developed sense of the absurd and you find either it's so bad it's funny (Batman, for example), or it's so over-the-top that making any kind of sense is just out the window and you enjoy it for what it is (Batman works here, too).

But - to address the specific question you so artfully dodge around - if you're held up as an expert on a particular subject (say, science fiction) and you need to speak intelligently on that subject, you need to keep up with what's being produced. You need to speak to what you find right and wrong with the new work being produced by whatever source, as with any real-world issue of society (politics, Iraq, gun control). And, you need to have adequate information to do so. Just like in any real-world issue.

So, pursuing this example, if you care about the state of sci-fi as entertainment you must watch it, and then speak out on what you like and dislike, what you expect to see in your sci-fi entertainment. If you don't, you never will see what you want to see. For most of the viewing public, that's done with the TV remote and their theater dollars. For some of us, though, that includes various internet discussion boards, which always narrow the focus so minutely that it sometimes appears we're all hopeless, mean-spirited fanboys.

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Old December 2nd, 2006, 10:51 PM   #10
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My 2cents worth is most people find it easier to be critical and negative than to have a positive discussion, which is compounded by the current fashion which equates wit with rudeness, but I guess I'm showing my age on that one!

Just why someone would watch something several times just to pick at it (if they are not a professional reviewer who gets paid for such things) is beyond me, too. All I can think is they are 'stirrers' who get off on the reactions they get and the hurt they cause.

This is not to be confused with someone who might watch a show they are ambivalent about, just so they can join into the conversation, or watch something they don't like to be socially active with their friends who do like it. They generally don't seek to purposely hurt those other people and will stop distressing them if asked.

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Old December 3rd, 2006, 01:07 AM   #11
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Sure thing Gemini, sorry about that.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 05:39 AM   #12
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Default critically watching a show

I want to thank everyone for your responses. I liked reading your different opinions on why you watch shows that bother you sometimes--some of those ideas I hadn't thought of before, which was why I asked in the first place.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 01:44 PM   #13
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Here is on logical reason which popps up all the time.

In the UK, the TV channel ITV are remaking Agatha Christie's Marple. I enjoy them, they are darker and more comical than the old BBC ones, and they take a few big liberties with the novels in order to give a more modern twist, while retaining the feel of the original work.

But most of the message boards I have seen discussing this show are full of hard core Christie fan's who seem to delight in wailing about how bad the show is, how it can't compair to the 80's BBC versions, and stating that Dame Agatha will be turning in her grave.
And I guarentee that every one of these moaners will sit down and watch all of the next episode like a hawk, just so they can tear it to peices on the internet as soon as it has aired!

The same thing is happening with the new Robin Hood series on the BBC, with hordes of fans of the 80's show Robin of Sherwood watching for the only purpose of hating it and bashing it online afterwards.
Dare I say there will be a few fans of the original BSG doing the same.

I know as a Superman fan, I first tuned into Smallviile expecting to be outraged, but soon discovered I actually really enjoyed the show.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:10 PM   #14
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As a Science Fiction fan that was absolutely thrilled when the Sci Fi channel came into existence, the channel basically became the only one I really wanted to watch whenever I sat down to watch TV. Ten years later it is still hard to shake that habit and thus I end up watching all sorts of programs that I really don't like. Mind you I don't watch the whole shows, but some of them.

Nothing is on so I turn to the Sci Fi channel. Some lame movie or tv show is on that they have produced like "Mansquito." I watch about half an hour of it making excuses for it like "oh it's just like one of the old monster movies. I like those, why not this?" Then it hits me that I'm making excuses about a program to myself!

I think a good point to make is that this trend of people watching shows they don't even really like has a lot to do with a big nose dive in the quality of programming on the air. That's why a half way decent show is such a major hit these days. It also doesn't help when a channel that used to be pretty good sacrifices good programming for low quality junk in the name of quantity and not quality. Take a look at MTV. There are now three MTV channels and out of the three, music related programming takes up very little of their air time.

Remember when the Sci Fi channel first started making original programming? Things like Dune? Now I prefer the David Lynch movie (even though it wasn't as close to the book), but at least that mini series was of decent quality. They then saw the opprotunity to run only movies that they made to make a buck. They kick off the good programming to make way and then when it doesn't work all that well they have to resort to showing professional wrestling...on a science fiction based channel.

I have a problem with 90% of what I see on TV. The good news is that I very rarely even watch tv for 10% of any given day. I LOATHE reality television with the exception of I Pity the Fool (because it has a positive message). I hate programming that relies on the "Stupid husband with smart wife that puts up with him" crutch. That rules out most sit coms. The love triangle bit is fairly over done these days which rules out most primetime programming. So here's the problem. If I'm going to watch two hours of television and 90% of what is on I'm not all that into, what are the odds that if I sit down to casually watch some TV that I'm going to find something that I actually enjoy?

So, I sit down with two hours to watch TV and watch a half an hour or even an hour of programming that I dislike before coming to my senses and just popping in a DVD. I will say that DVR has been great to catch that 10% of programming that I like.

BRG, I'm totally with you on Smallville. I didn't watch the first season thinking it was just some pretty boy Nsync version of the Superman legend. My best friend turned me on to it and I was hooked! I was actually ready to just give up on it given the last two seasons but this season has been really awesome! I love that they brought Green Arrow on board!
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRG

The same thing is happening with the ne Robin Hood series on BBC, with hordes of fans of the 80's show Robin of Sherwood watching for the only purpose of hating it and bashing it online afterwards.
Dare I say there will be a few fans of the original BSG doing the same.

Does the new Robin Hood have anything to do with Robin of Sherwood? I freakin' love ROS! I think that is a little different though, Robin of Sherwood itself was sort of a new take on an existing story. I mean that as the story based around those characters and that setting and not just the premise. In the end everything is based off of something.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 05:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monolith21
Does the new Robin Hood have anything to do with Robin of Sherwood? I freakin' love ROS! I think that is a little different though, Robin of Sherwood itself was sort of a new take on an existing story. I mean that as the story based around those characters and that setting and not just the premise. In the end everything is based off of something.
Hi Monolith. I'm afraid you would be dissapointed if you saw the new Robin Hood.

The new Robin Hood on the BBC has nothing to do with Robin of Sherwood, which again seems to be the main problem with the show, it is stuck in RoS shadow.

This Robin Hood is a very trendy, family orientated show. It has flashy camera work, the guy playing Robin and his best mate Much look like they belong in some late 90's Britpop band, and Marion looks suprisingly trendy for time period and has been written as a fiesty "Girl Power" chick!

Judged on it's own for what it is- Saturday night family viewing with some action & comedy in the Dr Who time slot, it is just fine, indeed it is quite enjoyable.
But for fan's of Robin of Sherwood, it is an outrage, and can't hold a candle to that series. And they are really savage in their views on the new show.
BRG

PS- They even left out Friar Tuck from the show, just not trendy enough for the 21st century apparently. But roumur has it he will be included in season 2.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 10:33 AM   #17
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No room for a big fat guy with religious beliefs on trendy television eh? Figures.

I love Robin of Sherwood, but I also enjoyed Robin Hood Prince of Thieves with all of it's accent dissapearing acts and historical innacuracies. I guess mostly becuase neither had anything to do with the other and didn't pretend to. Ya know? From what I can tell most long term Dr. Who fans aren't dissapointed with the latest seasons of that show which is cool.

I've been late to the table on a few shows. Heroes is one of them. Got into it about two weeks ago and it is about ten episodes in. I'm diggin' it! At first I thought it was going to be super corny but it is pretty darn good.
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Old December 5th, 2006, 07:55 AM   #18
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I hear ya, monolith. That's why about all I watch anymore on the tube is sports! And even THAT is over for me since I"m a big Nascar and baseball fan and both of those seasons are now over. I"m pretty bored right now. The news is the most entertaining thing on!!
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Old December 11th, 2006, 09:51 AM   #19
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Why watch something you don't like? Excellent question.

Several reasons spring to mind. First, it gives you the ability to genuinely criticize the property. Frankly, I don't tend to waste my time doing this, considering that there's far too many things I'd rather do than watch a show that I don't like. now, this should be considered in contrast to someone who DOES like the show, but offers up ideas on how the show could be made better. We do this a lot here on Fleets. many of us have authored threads about how we'd change a particular episode to better suit our vision of how things should have played out. But none of us have sat around simply saying "TOS sucks".

Second, it gives one the ability to repress those of a different mindset. Overall, we have gone quite far in this country towards an attitude of "You're either WITH us or AGAINST us". A very unhealthy polarization of mores, attitudes, moralities, and policies based on minutia that are nearly inconsequential. That polarization extends to the pop culture realm... and is exspecially prevalent on the internet where one isn't "burdened" with actually adressing another human being. Studies have shown that people act VERY differently while using the internet than they do in face-to-face socialization. And that includes a somewhat remorseless agressiveness at times. Sometimes its also just a popular acivity to jump on the "slam bandwagon"... to obtain a sense of belonging in a community. The way to turn that around is to fight fire with fire. Bring together people who LIKE the show and bury the people who don't like it in a shower of positive attitude. The detractors will eventually get the message and realize how they are wasting their time and either join the positive side or simply give up and go away.

And third, I would bet that the overwhelming majority of those who are complaining about a particular show don't REALLY watch it and are simply using the internet as a tool to vent their own angers and inadequacies. It doesn't have much to do with the show's merits in that case. There are just people who enjoy being incensed or outraged or just plain angry and they are using a show as an excuse to complain. Whether or not they are actually raising valid criticisms of a show is irrelevant. Its the excercise of complaining that they are stuck in. And that is a personal issue... not an issue with the show. They'd be complaining about something else if they weren't complaining about the show they ARE complaining about.

So the answer? The answer is to rise above. Because that is the only thing you can do.

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Old December 12th, 2006, 02:37 AM   #20
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We had a HR seminar today which called to mind this very question, in fact I posed it to the facilitator (Tho not quite in scifi terms) It turns out people like this are 'confrontational" and are occupying their 'insecure' part of their personal development. Now I think we all got to that without a Masters in Psychology (congrats to us), but people like this are alive and kicking in the workplace, objecting for the sake of it, arguing as a way to exerting their limited power, and feeding their self worth at the expense of others and of the group.

These behaviours are some of the things HR needs to weed out, to keep an organisation healthy.

so.

Think of them as weeds, growing amongst the useful plants, always there, but needing some control when they get too aggressive or numerous (mods & list rules as gardeners with herbicide??)


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Old December 12th, 2006, 08:23 AM   #21
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Excellent analogy.

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