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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:57 PM   #1
Griffworks
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Default BSG Kitbash - Hades-Class Destroyer

This was originally going to be another Single Entry for the Starship Modeler BSG contest. However, me being the slow builder/finisher that I am, I just never quite made it. I thought it was ready, but got to looking at the attached pics and decided that I wasn't about to enter it as it looks in these pics. She needs too much cleaning up.

I based this design off of the fan-produced Cheetah-class light cruiser. I just don't like the idea of a class of ship named "Cheetah" in TOS BSG, so decided to call it the Hades-class, giving a better idea of the role to which I'd assigned the design. My version of the ship is meant to portray a destroyer - but not in the traditional Wet Navy Terminology that we know. Instead, this is mean to designate the ship as devoted to one purpose - destroying Cylon Basestars.

The basics: the kitbash is a merging of the "gator head" and main engine section of a Revell-Monogram battlestar kit that I picked up somewhere. I added the Timeslip Creations Battlestar Detailing Set side pieces, as well as the nose piece. I cut off the kit bridge, made it a bit larger with the use of sheet styrene and then re-worked the mounting point so that it no longer angled down as it originally did.

During the construction phase, I decided to add some guns to the hull. I always thought that this large ships should have more visible weaponry adorning their hulls, as seeing the laser beams come from "nowhere" in the long shots just sorta bugged me. I can understand the small AAA/Anti-Starfighter guns not being as visible, but the anti-basestar guns?

During this phase, I also decided to add some big-ole honkin' guns. I toyed around w/the idea of scratchbuilding something or even adding some 1/700 scale warship main guns, but eventually decided on something different. The guns I chose are from Ravenstar Studios.

My rationale is that these guns are along the lines of the Pulsar canons that the Basestars have. They don't have a high cycle rate, only firing once every five or so seconds. That would mean that these ships would have best work in conjunction with other destroyers and/or as a fleet action w/battlestars and other support ships in the mix. So, these are Big Ole Honkin' Guns, but they aren't BFG's!

The smaller guns adoring the hull are a mix from two sources. The rounded and funky rectangular/angled guns are from some small, 1/2500-ish scale StarBlazer's kits I picked up from various places, most from eBay and Federation Models. The rounded guns are meant to be anti-ship/missile defenses, while the larger guns are purely anti-ship. The small, square guns are some I picked up from BamBam Productions as a lot on eBay, made for his 1/9600 scale TNS Pegasus kit. I figure them for heavier anti-starship guns.

I also added two different sizes of missile hatches to the hull. There are some small hatches which are meant to deliver anti-starfighter missiles. The larger hatches are anti-ship nukes. The thinking is that, if necessarily, one of these ships could close with a basestar under flank speed, let loose w/her canons and anti-ship missiles while doing a fairly decent job of keeping any Raiders at bay with her anti-starfighter weapons.

There are also some odd-ball greebly parts in various areas. These come from a variety of sources from my spares box. I just sort of put stuff where I felt it looked best.

I'll get to the painting at some point tomorrow.

Pic One

Pic Two

Pic Three

Pic Four

Pic Five

Pic Six

Pic Seven
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 06:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: BSG Kitbash - Hades-Class Destroyer

Hi Griff!!!

The guns seem "odd" to me. I concur with the basic idea .... big guns to take out big ships ... but the mounting threw the tech-geek side of me into a spin because I associate these with realistic guns. Psychologically, I think that a gun the size of these, which have bores about 30 feet wide if my rough math is correct, would have one Hell of a kick to them. Logically, they'd be mounted into the hull framework for support, which would then rattle everything when they fired.

In the BSG universe, the pulsar cannon seemed to have a similar effect but logically, that could have come from the entire mountain powering the thing and the release of energy from the charger rather than the cannon itself.

My suggestion would be that if this is something you want to address, you should strengthen up the gun mounts with some sort of trailing support that distributes the shock of the cannon firing more evenly across the hull. In my mind, I'm thinking about dual beams with cross supports, pipe framework, or something running along the length of the hull or something similar to that. An alternative could be to have a spiderweb structure around the mounts sending out the shock in a circular pattern although off-hand if you got this technical I'd wave off that since that would send the force racing up towards the bridge where it would collide from each side.

I know that's super-geekish but to my super-geekish mind, it seems that such obvious protrustions would have a corresponding support structures. At least that's how I'd do it if I were modeling the thing in Lightwave.

Otherwise, an interesting and fairly logical concept.

All my best,



Russell
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 06:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: BSG Kitbash - Hades-Class Destroyer

Hi, Russell! How've you been? Good, I hope!

I get what you're saying about the big honkin' guns - and they honestly kinda bug me, too - and agree with you up to a point. That point is that they're energy weapons. My understanding is that even a plasma weapon wouldn't have any "kick" to it. That's why I didn't do much in the way of reinforcing it with additional structure. I do like the idea of some sort of spider-web type of reinforcement, tho can't think of a way to produce it so that it'll look alright, off the top of my head.

I've given some thought to possibly taking these off and replacing them w/some 1/700 scale US Navy battleship guns, ala how the Defender-class was designed. I was thinking to add two under each side of the "chin", just like on the Defender. That route would loan itself much better to some additional reinforcing structure, IMNSHO.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 07:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: BSG Kitbash - Hades-Class Destroyer

Well, just to show off my inner ubber-geekness!

The show's continuity really only had one really big pulsar cannon. That one seemed to have a shockwave kick to it.

However, all dogs are not German shepards and a low-kick plasma gun could theoretically have a low recoil. However, for the sake of technical savy, I'd then suggest changing the barrels to something that is better designed for spewing balls of plasma. The cannons you're using now are largely projectile cannon barrels, needed to aim a shell and send it spinning. It needs length to ensure the uniform spin as it leaves the barrel.

Anything of that length is useless for a ball of plasma because the plasma pushes on itself when its not confined. The barrel only keeps it in tact for another 200 feet or so, using your scale. After that, it scatters. That's useless in space warfare distances. However, good Sci-Fi conventions say that if you, for example, had an energy magnifier on the end of shorter barrels, they'd cause the plasma to be super-reactive, which would then cause more damage on the basestar when it hit it.

You wouldn't do this further inside the weapon because who wants super-reactive plasma eating away at the inside of your cannon.

Otherwise, I've been good. Working hard on a couple of audio projects which I hope will start hitting the streets around Mar and trying to gather up some more cash for an indie film. (Possibly more on that later).

Sooner or later, I've got to spend the time working up the studio scale viper and raider I have sitting in the bonus room. After seeing Mark Bradley's workup of the same raider model, I've been in love with it but never quite got the gutts to dive in and do it myself. I intended to grab about ten or so Star Wars fighter models and try out the weathering and paneling techniques before I took a chance on the raider. Whenever I do get to that point, you might get some frantic e-mails from me.

All my best,


Russell
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 02:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: BSG Kitbash - Hades-Class Destroyer

I have to agree that the big turrets look out of place, but I like the idea. I've always liked the idea of fixed lasers in the nose section of the Battlestars, firing the big anti baseship "rounds" out.

but I've also been a fan of the idea that the laser turrets we see in the series are more versital then they have been given credit for.

These are energy weapons, and have really only been seen in an anti Starfighter role. But who says they are powered fully when operating as anti-Starfighter lasers. What if they were operating at 20% power, this would drastically increase the rate of fire for them (recharge rate) since the capasitors that hold the energy they fire never are depletated. But when you come to go against a basestar, you ramp the power up to 100% This gives you a ship killer laser in the same positions.

just my take on the weapons of a battlestar in TOS.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 07:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: BSG Kitbash - Hades-Class Destroyer

I really, really like those.
I've gotta try some myself.
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Old January 24th, 2009, 06:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: BSG Kitbash - Hades-Class Destroyer

Thanks again, folks. I appreciate it.

Russell - I still agree w/you on the size of the guns, as well as w/Reaper63. I just don't necessarily agree that there'd be any recoil. You make some excellent points, regardless, and it's pushing me even more towards taking out the big ole honkin' guns and adding those US Navy battleship guns in their place. In fact, I dug four of the barrels out and started shortening their length. I plan to pull out my pin vise set and hollow out the barrels a bit.

Hope your audio projects go well for you, too!

Reaper63 - I've always thought that a battlestar would fire all her batteries when engaging a basestar directly, regardless the energy output of those weapons. Good point about them perhaps operating at a lower power setting for anti-starfighter use.


Thanks again, all, for the kind words. I'm going to likely replace the main guns on this model, along w/a few other parts being replaced and/or added. I'll post more pics in the next couple days once I feel I'm at a good point. 'Course, that means I've got to do some touch up painting.
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Old January 24th, 2009, 09:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: BSG Kitbash - Hades-Class Destroyer

Griff,

I'm a major tech geek for this sort of stuff. In Lightwave, you just start modeling up a new setup and then duplicate the parts which means you can experiment along the way with a lot of ideas. Even when its just decorations on a machine, I've always tried to work out some purpose for the nurnies in my mind. I figure its a bit more complicated with the real models since you can't save previous versions and can't just electronically pull or shift what you want.

From what I recall, in both Living Legend and Hand of God, the battlstar did fire some pretty hefty energy blasts. Like you said, they seemed to come from nowhere but the basic concept is there.

The audio is going well, thanks. I spent part of yesterday dumping the rough drafts into the production sheets and was happy with where it was going for the upcoming stuff. I also got the music samples from the composer for EP1 and EP2 of Myths of History and was very happy with those.

All my best,


Russell
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