The Canon of Battlestar Galactica

[Dawg]

I’ve been thinking about this, and decided I want to start a discussion about just what is the canon of Battlestar Galactica; that is, what is it about BSG that makes it BSG? What can’t be screwed with if you are trying to tell the story? What is the basic essence of it?

Rather than just say “I know it when I see it,” I want to quantify it, put it into words we all can use.

Here are my thoughts, taken from my memory only (it’s been a long time since I’ve seen Saga). Please add to, detract from, or discuss as you will:

1. In the beginning (to borrow a phrase), under the guidance of the Lords of Kobol the 13 tribes of man flourished on the planet Kobol.

2. While man inhabited Kobol, they first encountered the Cylon race, a non-human race who were diametrically opposed to all that mankind was and strove to be. The Cylons began to augment themselves with mechanical components until they became more machine than biological, and in the “image” of man.

2a. Alternatively, in the series they were purely mechanical beings who had been constructed ages ago by the biological Cylons, who had ultimately been destroyed by their creations. (I note that Richard returned to the original cyborg premise in his books.)

3. As the planet Kobol began to die, the Lords disappeared, and the 13 tribes of man left the planet, each to colonize a world of their own. The first 12 tribes settled on 12 habitable worlds within the same general “star system”, while the 13th set out for Earth. The course and location for Earth were lost in the millennia that followed.

4. The entire “sixth millennium” was taken up with the war with the Cylons.

5. Baltar deliberately betrayed his fellow humans in order to have the whole of Caprica subjugated under him. The Cylons destroyed the planet instead, along with the rest of the colonies.

6. Upon learning that one Battlestar had survived the massacre and gathered as many human survivors together as they could, the Cylons give Baltar a basestar to pursue the survivors and destroy them.

7. Baltar’s motivation began as greed and lust for power, and eventually became hatred; it became directed at Adama in particular when Adama was forced to leave Baltar in the ancient pyramid on Kobol (in LPG) when Lucifer prematurely attacked.

8. The names were Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer, etc. Their names had no resemblance to earthbound names like Lee, William, etc. Their names are the roots of our own, not the other way around.

9. The designs of the Battlestars, Basestars, Vipers, Raiders, etc. (Although arguments for updating those designs might be made.) That would carry over to the designs that incorporate influences on our own pre-history (Egyptians, Greek, etc.).

OK, that’s as far as I’m going to go. I think that, for me anyway, any Battlestar Galactica story must be based on these basic premises; the rest is really just window dressing. Did I leave anything out? Did I screw any up?

Oh, and please, moderators, if this isn’t the correct forum for this discussion, feel free to move it!

I am
Dawg

[LadyImmortal]

You got a lot of it, Dawg!

I also have to say that it's a fight for survival. And it's a fight to stand up for what you believe in.

And it's about the ability to keep going even when you've lost everything - which the Colonists did.

It's about faith - and trust - things which a certain re-imagining lacks in entirety.

--Rhonda

[Sept17th]

A small point and I may be incorrect I thought the human race incountered the Cylons after they established the Colonies.

[kingfish]

It is an epic journey to survive. It was meant to last many years. Larson even said so himself in the Sciography special.

[BST]

Originally posted by Sept17th
A small point and I may be incorrect I thought the human race incountered the Cylons after they established the Colonies.

Help me to remember:

Adama recounted to the "new" Quorum of Twelve at the Council meeting where they were debating the destruction of their weaponry, that the Colonists did not encounter the Cylons until the Colonists came to the aid of the Hassari, , correct?

"Memory cells coming online, ... slowly. 10% reactivated."

[Sept17th]

Originally posted by BST
Help me to remember:

Adama recounted to the "new" Quorum of Twelve at the Council meeting where they were debating the destruction of their weaponry, that the Colonists did not encounter the Cylons until the Colonists came to the aid of the Hassari, , correct?

"Memory cells coming online, ... slowly. 10% reactivated."

That was when "conflict" started with the Cylons I believe

[BST]

That's right!

So, there must have been "contact" prior to that, something TOS just touched on. (One of the items that would be nice to see 'expanded upon' in a Continuation).

[kingfish]

I believe that the Hassari conflict was the beginning of the Thousand Yahren War.

[Dawg]

And, by that time, they had already mechanized into the "human" form. Right? That would validate the thought that there had been human contact before, and prove my memory isn't completely shot.



I am
Dawg

[BST]

Originally posted by kingfish

I believe that the Hassari conflict was the beginning of the Thousand Yahren War.

Now that I think about it, didn't Adama say "run-in with the Cylons". If that was the case, perhaps they had 'first contact' at a prior time and the Hassari conflict was the first military tangle. That could explain how the Cylons knew of the human form and then had emulated it, by the time they met in battle (re: the Hassaris).

Originally posted by Dawg

And, by that time, they had already mechanized into the "human" form. Right? That would validate the thought that there had been human contact before, and prove my memory isn't completely shot.

Dawg, hope you know I was referring to activating my own memory cells...some things I remember just like they happened yesterday, other things, forget it!! LOL...

BST

[kingfish]

The Colonials did have contact with them before the war.

[Agelastus]

From the pilot (roughly.)

"True, we did not have conflict with them until we helped our neighbours, the Hassaris, take back their world - unjustly taken from them by the Cylons." (Adama)

So - the Colonials had contact with the Cylons before the war, but for how long is unknown.

From "War of the Gods" (roughly.)

"For my essence to have been inscribed upon their machine leader, this would have had to have occurred a thousand yahrens ago" (Iblis)

This gives a very interesting timeframe for the dominance of the machine creations in Cylon culture.

[Flamingo Girl]

It kind of seems like the Cylon Centurions (human form) were created to fight the humans. Maybe the Cylons created the technology that eventually destroyed them, and then the technology created the Centurions?

[Dawg]

My recollection is that the original Cylons used a human form because it was more efficient that their own (Apollo's explanation to Boxey, as you will recall).

Iblis was being disengenuous with Apollo, as I recall, when he made that comment about the Imperious Leader's voice. Of course, he was/is the devil figure, so his influence on the Cylons may have begun well before the start of the Thousand-Yahren War.

Didn't Armaggedon address this, too?

I am
Dawg

[Agelastus]

Yes, that's what Apollo said - one does wonder just how humano-centric he was being! A bipedal form may be adaptable, but the Cylons sure were clumsy.

Iblis was talking to Baltar = the only person present with the fleet who would recognise Imperious Leader's voice. Disingenious or not, he's nailed down the point of machine dominance in Cylon society pretty firmly.

His influence may well have been felt earlier - the Cylons seem to have been a deeply paranoid species in their original (apparently reptilian) form.

Armageddon................................as I've strongly hinted before, Hatch's novels are no more a real continuation to me than Galactica 80 was.

[SpyOne]

Blasting this back from the past because .... well, I really like it and only just found it.

This "canon" contains one of my beefs with the new thing, but this isn't the place to talk about that.

Anyway, below I have what I think of as a "corrected" version:

Originally Posted by Dawg as edited by SpyOne

1. In the beginning (to borrow a phrase), under the guidance of the Lords of Kobol the 13 tribes of man flourished on the planet Kobol.

2. As the planet Kobol began to die, the 13 tribes of man left the planet, each to colonize a world of their own. The first 12 tribes settled on 12 habitable worlds within the same general “star system”, while the 13th set out for Earth. The course and location for Earth and Kobol were lost in the millennia that followed.

3. The 12 Colonies encountered the Cylon race, a non-human reptillian race who were diametrically opposed to all that mankind was and strove to be. Eventually war broke out between them.

3a. The Cylons began to augment themselves with mechanical components until they became more machine than biological, and in the “image” of man.

3b. Alternatively, the Cylons constructed humanoid mechanical servants who continued to fight the humans long after all the biological Cylons had died out, perhaps destroyed by their own creations.

4. The entire “sixth millennium” was taken up with the war with the Cylons. The war started around the time the Cylons died out.

5. Baltar deliberately betrayed his fellow humans in order to have the whole of his Colony subjugated under him. The Cylons destroyed the planet instead, along with the rest of the colonies.

6. Upon learning that one Battlestar had survived the massacre and gathered as many human survivors together as they could, the Cylons give Baltar a basestar to pursue the survivors and offer them peace, but Baltar decides to destroy them.

7. Baltar’s motivation began as greed and lust for power, and eventually became hatred; it became directed at Adama in particular when Adama was forced to leave Baltar in the ancient pyramid on Kobol (in LPG) when Lucifer prematurely attacked.

8. The names were Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer, etc. Their names had little resemblance to earthbound names like Lee, William, etc. Their names are the roots of our own, or vice-versa.

9. The designs of the Battlestars, Basestars, Vipers, Raiders, etc. (Although arguments for updating those designs might be made.) That would carry over to the designs that incorporate influences on our own pre-history (Egyptians, Greek, etc.).

[justjackrandom]

And thus I too just saw it...

Dawg, I think you nailed it as far as premise goes. I’m not too sure as to the timing of some of the earlier events you list, but as they were never made clear, and your presentation does not contradict anything in the series that I am aware of, then I’m totally cool with it. However, to me there is so much more that goes into canonical BSG. I am something of a purist and anything that contradicts what was on the screen, either directly or indirectly, tends to bother me. That’s one of the reasons I don’t care much for Richard’s books, or many of the attempts to describe BSG’s technology.

Just my tuppence – JJR

[Dawg]

Ye Gods - this is a blast from the past.

SpyOne, I agree with your switching 2 and 3. Having seen Saga since I first posted that list, I realize that this is the correct sequence.

6 and 7 - The motivations of giving Baltar a baseship were unclear. It's equally possible that Lucifer was actually in command and Baltar was a dupe; but after Kobol it was definitely personal between Baltar and Adama, and it was a fight to the death.

But you kind of missed the point with 8. I wrote:

Originally Posted by Dawg

The names were Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer, etc. Their names had no resemblance to earthbound names like Lee, William, etc. Their names are the roots of our own, not the other way around.

You wrote:

Originally Posted by SpyOne

The names were Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer, etc. Their names had little resemblance to earthbound names like Lee, William, etc. Their names are the roots of our own, or vice-versa.

There is no vice-versa. My point was that the names of TOS were supposed to be based on the cultural roots that the Colonies sprang from - and were the same roots as the earliest names of our ancestors, which we recognize from Earth's various mythologies and histories. Apollo. Sheba. Iblis. Even Adama.

It ties in with 9, with the architecture and design being evocative of ancient Egypt and Greece. Designs with similar roots to ours (pyramidal, for example), but different, developed along different lines.

So, in the canon of BSG, the roots of our culture and the Colonial culture sprang from the same roots, but diverged seven millennia before - the Exodus from Kobol - so no Earthly name could possibly be the root of a Colonial name.

I am
Dawg

[larocque6689]

http://members.tripod.com/john_larocque/tns/BG-FAQ.html

Here's some excerpts:

E7. What are the Cylons?

According to Commander Adama, the conflict with the Cylons began when they intervened on behalf of the Hasaris:

Adama: We did not initiate a conflict with the Cylons until we helped our neighbours, who the Cylons wish to enslave. And until we helped the Hasaris get back their nation, taken by force by the Cylons.

Thus began the thousand-yahren war. Why were the Cylons willing to exterminate some races, like the humans and the Delphian Empire, when they were willing to subjugate others like the Ovions? According to Adama:

Adama: They hate us with every fiber of their existence. We love freedom, we love independence -- to feel, to question, to resist oppression. To them, it's an alien way of existing they will never accept.

On Carillon in the premiere, Apollo explained the Cylons to Boxey:

It's not what we did to them [which began the Cylon war]. It's what they fear we could do. They're not like us. They're machines created by living creatures a long, long time ago... a race of reptiles called Cylons. After a while the Cylons discovered humans were the most practical form of creature in this system. So they copied our bodies, but they built them bigger and stronger than we are. And they can exchange parts so they can live forever... There are no more real Cylons. They died off thousands of yahrens ago, leaving behind a race of super-machines, but we still call them Cylons.
A dialog between Count Iblis and the imprisoned Baltar in "War of the Gods" suggests a more sinister theory behind the original Cylons demise, that the biological Cylons made a pact with Count Iblis before their machine servants overthrew their masters and spread out across the universe.


Baltar: I know you.
Iblis: Do you?
Baltar: I remember that voice, the voice of the Cylon Imperious Leader.
Iblis: The Cylon is a machine.
Baltar: Now. But once they were a race of beings who allowed themselves to be overcome by their own technology.
Iblis: And when did this happen?
Baltar: A thousand yahrens ago, at the onset of the thousand yahren war against the humans.
Iblis: And for my voice to be the voice of Imperious Leader, it would have to be transcribed into machine leader a thousand yahrens ago. I'd have to be a thousand yahrens old.

In "The Man with Nine Lives," the Maitre D' made a reference to "before the War," indicating that for many people, it referred only to the final intensification of the conflict, something that was relatively recent. The attack on the Thorn Forest on Caprica in 7322 in Starbuck's youth was one of the first times in living memory that the Cylons had directly attacked a Colony. This was the environment under which the Cylons "sued for peace" prior to the peace conference at Cimtar.

There are several kinds of Cylons seen in Battlestar Galactica:

Imperious Leader - The leader of all the Cylons, Imperious Leader is the only Cylon who physically resembles the original biological Cylons.

Cylon Centurions - A humanform Cylon warrior. Most Centurions have silver armor, though senior officers, such as Vulpa from "Gun on Ice Planet Zero," have golden armor.

IL-series Cylons - Lucifer and Spectre are IL-series Cylons, and resemble walking light bulbs. These Cylons are more intelligent then Centurions, and have personalities. The current Imperious Leader is also an IL-series Cylon. The phrase is a play on words for John Dykstra's Industrial Light and Magic, which provided special effects for Galactica's initial episodes.

Civilian Cylons - The Cylon outpost on Gamoray in "The Living Legend, Part 2" introduces for the first time several new types of Cylons, in addition to the first three.

E8. Who is Count Iblis? What are the beings inside the Ship of Lights?

In the episode "War of the Gods," the Colonial fleet picks up a passenger stranded on a red planet, Count Iblis, who alone has survived the crash of a great starship. In the course of the two-part episode, Iblis peforms miraculous feats, and becomes so influential he nearly takes control of the Fleet. All the while, light entities, invisible to Colonial scanners, were manifesting themselves, while several flight patrols had mysteriously disappeared. Baltar is delivered unto the Council, Iblis' true nature is revealed, the flight patrols are freed, and Apollo, who was struck down by Iblis and "only dead by primitive measures," is revived by the mysterious beings aboard their Ship of Lights.
In a conversation with Apollo, Commander Adama suggested that Count Iblis and the light entities are members of an advanced civilization. He speculated that they could in some way have been responsible for the original founding of Kobol.

Adama: The ancient ones, the Lords who first settled our Kobol, spoke of visitations from what they in their primitive way referred to as angels.
Apollo:Angels...
Adama: Think of them as custodians of the universe, advanced beings, very highly advanced, whose mandate it is to make certain that their powers are never abused by any one of their own kind.
Apollo: And they're watching him [Iblis], meaning he's one of them.
Adama: Or was.

Answering questions from Starbuck and Sheba aboard the Ship of Lights, they revealed their nature and mission to him:

Sheba: I think maybe we're dead.
Starbuck: Is that right? We're dead and you're angels?
Entity: Oddly enough, there is some truth to your speculation.

And later on:

Starbuck: Why are you doing all this?
Entity: Because we fight a common foe, the forces of darkness and evil throughout the stars.
Starbuck: But why are you bothering with us? We come from a simple handful of human survivors.
Entity: Because, as you are now, we once were. As we are now, you may become.
Starbuck: When?
Entity: After you've seeded and nurtured new civilizations, after you've evolved.
Starbuck: On Earth?
Entity: Perhaps.
Starbuck: Will you show us the way?
Entity: Perhaps we can give you a beginning.
Starbuck: And what about Count Iblis, is he one of you?
Entity: He now uses his powers to corrupt and lead others away from the truth.
Sheba: Why can't you stop him?
Entity: Because we cannot interfere with freedom of choice. His, yours, anyone's.
Even Count Iblis is bound by these laws. In his final confrontation with Apollo on the red planet, Apollo revealed his true identity:

Apollo: You command no one who does not willingly give you dominion. You have no power over me.
Iblis: You know who I am.
Apollo: Yes, I finally know. Sheba, think back to the ancient records. The names Mephistopheles, Diabolis, the Prince of Darkness.
In this same scene, Iblis promised to return:

Iblis: There will come another time, another place we will meet again.
Members of this mysterious race include John ("Experiment in Terra") and Angela (from Galactica 1980's "The Return of Starbuck.")

[SpyOne]

Originally Posted by Dawg

But you kind of missed the point with 8. There is no vice-versa. My point was that the names of TOS were supposed to be based on the cultural roots that the Colonies sprang from - and were the same roots as the earliest names of our ancestors, which we recognize from Earth's various mythologies and histories. Apollo. Sheba. Iblis. Even Adama.

Well, what I was trying to point out is that we aren't sure what time frame Battlestar took place in.
While it is possable that the fable they have about the origin of mankind is the truth (we all came from Kobol, some went to Earth from there), it is equally possable that they've gotten their history confused, and millennia before Kobol had been colonised by people from Earth.

While BSG hinted very heavilly at being set in the present-day, nothing on screen excludes the Colonies having been descendants of Earth so far in our future that they've forgotten where they come from.
(And if you exclude "Hand of God", there's no proof they aren't in our distant past either.)

Their names are different from ours, but it's unclear where they are in time relative to us. That's all.

[AJMarks]

Actually there is no proof in 'Hand of God' that the events of BSG don't take place in our past. Remember Boomer says that the 'video' could be very, very old (it was sent using the 'gamma' freq.).

[SpyOne]

Originally Posted by AJMarks

Actually there is no proof in 'Hand of God' that the events of BSG don't take place in our past. Remember Boomer says that the 'video' could be very, very old (it was sent using the 'gamma' freq.).

Well, that only works if time is a circle, or something.

It seems pretty clear that "Hand of God" establishes itself as taking place in-or-after 1968? . If you have a plausable explanation for how Galactica could have recieved that broadcast in 3000BC I'm all ears.

[Dawg]

No, no.

If the Galactica doesn't receive the 1968 transmission for years & years - which, depending on where they are in the galaxy, is likely, then the events of 1968 would be in the far past when they finally to see the transmission.

I think it's a mistake to automatically assume we know when the events of BSG take place. The easiest to assume is that it's taking place contemporaneously to our watching it - that is, it's happening now. But it is equally probable that the events of BSG occur in our (Earth's) future.

Your statement above, SkyOne, about the timing of the events of BSG, are true, but I believe that it is generally accepted that in BSG canon humans developed on Kobol then migrated, one of the 13 tribes going to Earth and contact being lost. This fits with the "ancient astronaut" theories that were popular in the '70s, so the basic idea is that we are also the decendants of Kobol.

The "time is a circle" felgercarb is a TNS invention.

I am
Dawg

I would ad only a couple things:

Baltar's motivations originally to betray the colonies may have included more than lust and greed. It may have included fear. If as some speculate the colonials were losing the war and Baltar feared eventual defeat his deal was simply his way of ensuring his status in the new order he expected to come either way.

The cylons were a biological species destroyed by their robots. They did not become robots over time. Apollo mentioned that a similar problem started to happen with human built robots but rules were created that limited the use and development of human built robot.

Mention of the war in the Man with Nine Lives Episode does not fit in well with how the war is mentioned and portrayed in other episodes. Although this may be a continuity error it may also be that those not directly involved in the colonial service simply did not view the war as something that effected their lives until the war reached the later stages. (Much like the war in Iraq is not "real" to most Americans without friends or families fighting there accept in a peripheral way like how it effects the budget deficit.

The show is definitely set at some point past 1969. It should be well into the future (unless you include BG80 in canon)

[AJMarks]

I've always considered that the Cylon robots rebelled against the biological Cylons, much like a Terminator or Matrix movie. As a result of their encounters with their creators they might have a dislike of all organic lifeforms. (I have no backing for this just a personal opinion.)

As for the moon landing transmisison I've usually viewed that as if the signal had traveled years, possibly even a hundred years or more before the Galactica picked it up. For me the Earth would be more advanced when the Galactica and her fleet finally arrive, possibly in the year 2100-2500.

Just my $.02

[SpyOne]

About the "Hand of God" signal:

A guy I work with had a heated arguement with me about that episode. Because of the footage used for the planets, and the similarity they bore to certain familiar ones, and the fact that the Vipers never completed their search of that system because they encountered the Base Star, He was quite firmly convinced that Galactica had indeed found Earth, right at the time of the first Apollo landing, but the Cylons had a Base Star around Mars and chased them off, and they never investigated further because they were convinced that signal was a trap.

All I'm saying is, I can't prove he's wrong.

Originally Posted by SpyOne

About the "Hand of God" signal:

A guy I work with had a heated arguement with me about that episode. Because of the footage used for the planets, and the similarity they bore to certain familiar ones, and the fact that the Vipers never completed their search of that system because they encountered the Base Star, He was quite firmly convinced that Galactica had indeed found Earth, right at the time of the first Apollo landing, but the Cylons had a Base Star around Mars and chased them off, and they never investigated further because they were convinced that signal was a trap.

All I'm saying is, I can't prove he's wrong.

That is a very interesting take on that episode. It's also the first rational explanation that puts the events of the Galactica near our own timeline. If you assume that is true it would also explain the later Terra Arc, in that the Galactica basically passed Earth and then went on to find other members of the 13th tribe who continued on past Earth and named the world they settled on "Terra", which after all is just another name for Earth anyway.

[Fragmentary]

Originally Posted by Antelope

That is a very interesting take on that episode. It's also the first rational explanation that puts the events of the Galactica near our own timeline. If you assume that is true it would also explain the later Terra Arc, in that the Galactica basically passed Earth and then went on to find other members of the 13th tribe who continued on past Earth and named the world they settled on "Terra", which after all is just another name for Earth anyway.

You lost me. Hand of God was the last episode of the original Galactica run. So, I'm not sure what you mean by later Terra Arc. You might be transposing a couple of episodes. Or I'm illiterate and can't decipher your post. Both are very possible.

[justjackrandom]

Originally Posted by Fragmentary

You lost me. Hand of God was the last episode of the original Galactica run. So, I'm not sure what you mean by later Terra Arc. You might be transposing a couple of episodes. Or I'm illiterate and can't decipher your post. Both are very possible.

I think he is thinking of War of the Gods, rather than Hand of God. By odd coincidence, however, it appears from looking at the deleted footage for WOTG that the majority of the scene in HOG where Apollo, Sheba, and Starbuck are scanning the planets was actually shot for WOTG.

--JJR

[AJMarks]

Originally Posted by SpyOne

About the "Hand of God" signal:

A guy I work with had a heated arguement with me about that episode. Because of the footage used for the planets, and the similarity they bore to certain familiar ones, and the fact that the Vipers never completed their search of that system because they encountered the Base Star, He was quite firmly convinced that Galactica had indeed found Earth, right at the time of the first Apollo landing, but the Cylons had a Base Star around Mars and chased them off, and they never investigated further because they were convinced that signal was a trap.

All I'm saying is, I can't prove he's wrong.

I recently watched Hand of God and paid attention to this detail. The system that Sheba, Starbuck and Apollo were investigating had five planets so it could not have been Earth's system.