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Old September 5th, 2004, 08:33 PM   #1
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Default Did battlestars have deflector shields?

I remember the big door that went over the bridge windows. But I can't recall if they had deflectors like Star Wars,Star Trek,etc. I know the vipers and shuttles didn't. Seems like they would have at least had something to protect there always open landing areas!
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Old September 5th, 2004, 08:46 PM   #2
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The consensus is yes that battlestars have a shield enhanced armor. Kind of like the hull plating on Enterprise maybe.

Through out the series the armor on battlestars is seen absorbing and deflecting “laser torpedoes”.

I always enjoyed the “positive shield” which was the blast doors on “the big window” something the “dark and gritty” crowd probably doesn’t appreciate.
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Old September 5th, 2004, 09:49 PM   #3
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I assume there was no shields. And that's how I like it. Who cares if shileds are down 70%? Its kinda whimpy.

Now if you saw corridors and rooms getting shot to hell.... THAT is WAY more dramatic!

Shields are kinda like a facade for a real dramatic situation.

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Old September 5th, 2004, 11:30 PM   #4
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Yes, battlestars do seem to have some sort of force shield that deflects somewhat the impact of the charged particle beams from the Raiders. There's a blue glow in Saga when this happens but you can only see it with frame grabs!

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Old September 6th, 2004, 02:55 AM   #5
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I would have presumed that there would have been some kind of shielding, but I think the shield enhanced armor is most likely. We know the colonials had shields as they used it to protect Terra from itself....

If there was a force shield, then it can't have lasted very long, because the Battlestar always seemed to be taking hits, and the raiders flew through it enough times to ram her...

A development for a Continuation might be a fleet wide shield, with generators on each ship, used to create a huge force shield to protect every ship.....
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Old September 6th, 2004, 03:36 AM   #6
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http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/.../Debating.html

Go here and scroll down and you'll see the Big G's shields in action!

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Old September 6th, 2004, 05:31 AM   #7
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ah..ha.. maybe so, but if it only lasts a few frames, how are we supposed to know for when 25 years we are debating it on a worldwide communications network that didn't exist at the time ?

The text on the page is a good reminder of how some people can really take debates about a TV show too far !
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Old September 6th, 2004, 05:38 AM   #8
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I would presume the entrances to the landing bays have some sort of force shield, that prevents the vacuum of space from entering. I have the Revell model sitting on top of my computer. If you look into the landing bay at the front you can see down it and out the other side !!!!!!!
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Old September 6th, 2004, 10:47 PM   #9
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I think Glen Larson did want to include shields and stuff in the world of Battlestar Galactica. And you could argue the Battlestar Galactica did have shields. But I think its important to keep this in context. Those guys writing this stuff weren't Nasa engineers. Logically things were often more like fantasy that fact. Remember Fire in Space? And Vipers that don't fly according to physic?

It was a TV show produced with a haste that creates lots of mistakes. I don't think it was meant to be held up to scrutiny. Especially since VCRs weren't common yet. And you couldn't even watch a show over again, unless it repeated on TV. So effects could be looser with facts since unless your mistake was big, it probably wouldn't be caught.

As for that shield effect scene... I think if you want to argue that the BG has shields you could. Visually it kinda looks like it. And there are shields mentioned in the show. The show could easily say the ship had shield generators.

But I agree with Ernie that this wasn't the original intent of the creators of BG. And they were just trying to do a special effect of a cylon ship shooting at galactica. Shields were not something they were concerned with. Especially since doing a shield effect was hard to achieve with state of the day special effects. Remember, that there was no CGI created explosions. Or any CGI beyond the level of Tron. You had to to do something with a miniature model and pyrotechnics. OR you had to do it with hand animation and film exposures and superimposing.

Since they couldn't blow up a chunk of the model. And they couldn't superimpose a small partial explosion on a moving tilted surface... They probably did it the only way left that would't cost a bundle. Hand animation. As is that effect probably cost $1500 or so in 1978 dollars.
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Old September 7th, 2004, 01:45 AM   #10
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Thanks for the cool link Peter!
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Old September 7th, 2004, 06:12 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by viperdriver
Thanks for the cool link Peter!
Anytime. It took a while to remember where it was!

Best,

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Old September 7th, 2004, 06:36 AM   #12
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Vipers show a similar effect. In Saqa, you will see raider beams impact on something behind vipers. Interestingly, I like the idea that since shields are never specifically mentioned in the sense of energy shields, and the term sheilds seem to equate to armor, that what we are seeing is a defensive 'bonus' of drive fields.

BTW, it is interesting to note that 'shield depth', seen on sensor displays when scanning other ships, and which I equate to armor thickness, seem to be subject to relativity effects...it increases when the ships are in motion (seen in TC).

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Old December 29th, 2005, 09:01 PM   #13
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You can also see some kind of shielding in action when both the Atlantia and Carillon blow up. If you watch the debris from the explosions, it gets stopped at a definate distance before impacting the Galactica.

Also, in the novels, they talk alot about various camoflage fields and shields which Apollo set up to hide the fleet.

I've always assumed that the Colonials had shields, in fact, Adama ordered the Galactica's shields extended to protect a planet from being bombarded....I don't know why this is being debated about still....heh The Colonials knew how to

shield air from escaping into space (landing bay entrance)
hide RTF's electromagnetic emanations (camoflage fields)
block incoming debris (explosion debris)
ray shielding over ship armor (incoming cylon laser fire)
shield against physical projectiles (extended shields over a planet)

Seems pretty conclusive to me what it all means. I'll give it this though, IMO all these technologies aren't not by any stretch 100% effective...hench the massive armor plating over Galactica's entire surface Shields probably work best in contrived or controlled conditions ?
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Old December 30th, 2005, 01:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernie90125
ah..ha.. maybe so, but if it only lasts a few frames, how are we supposed to know for when 25 years we are debating it on a worldwide communications network that didn't exist at the time ?

The text on the page is a good reminder of how some people can really take debates about a TV show too far !

Maybe they have little else?
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Old December 30th, 2005, 08:33 AM   #15
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It is certain they have some kind of force field. Otherwise, what keeps the air in the landing bay. Several of the novels make reference to this.

Also, one can assume that ghe battlestars themselves have forciefields that can absorb vast amounts of kinetic energy.

Otherwise a single Cylon raider could destroy a Battlestar by accelerating to a high percentage of the speed of light and ramming. The energy in suich an attack would destroy even something the size of a battlestar.

The times we've seen the Cylons resort to ramming attacks, they seem to have required high explosive to do the damage.
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Old December 30th, 2005, 09:32 AM   #16
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Exactly! As has been said, any ship wanting to travel at speeds approaching light speed needs some sort of deflector shields/ navigational deflector array, or it could be destroyed by impacting objects barely larger than grains of sand.

There are clearly force-fields preventing atmospheric loss at the hanger bays, and it would follow that these are an extension of the main shields, and would offer protection to some degree in the event of hull breaches, depending on how much power was available, and how 'stretched' the system was.
It can be sumised, that the system is extremely versatile, allowing for extension out forwards from the hull when flying at light speed, to deflect particulate matter, dust, small rocks etc. And as is seen when the Galactica shields Terra from a global missile strike, the forward energy array is massively powerful, able to project an energy field that is large enough to encompass the upper atmosphere of an entire planet. From the language that Adama uses when talking about it in that episode, I always assumed that it can also be focussed into a destructive 'beam' or Laser (as they'd say). So it's clearly a multi usage energy focusing system.
It seems obvious, that the system would be very power intensive, and is possibly better against matter than energy. Which is why in battle, it seems to pull in very close becoming almost part of the hull's skin, in almost an augmented structural integrity field, to allow outward fire from the defensive turrets, and two-way traffic from shuttles and vipers without the constant dropping and raising of shields that we see in Star Trek.
But lets not forget how important such a system would be on a ship like Galactica.
Another facet of it would probobly generate the artificial gravity. Another would be the inertia dampening that the ship would need when performing high speed manouvers, or accelerating to light speed (no use being fast, if you crew gets turned to puree!).
Seeing as Galactica's 'thrust' comes from traditional backwards facing 'burners', then the structural integrity field would need to stop this huge 'push' from turning the ship inside out!

All the ships have something of a similar system of shields and energy/gravity focusing systems. From the Vipers, with their massive thrust, right down to 'Colonial Movers' and 'Valley Forge' (the argo ship) with its delicate bio-domes.
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Old December 30th, 2005, 03:16 PM   #17
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I've always thought that the Galactica had two different types of shielding. The first one is similiar to a window with almost no defensive qualities. These are seen in the landing bays where there is at least one or two scenes where a Cylon raider is flying into the landing bay. A true defensive shield should prevent something like this in a real attack. The second shield is the defensive shield that I feel is linked with the armor of the ship. The shielding enhances and spreads out an impact of and enemy weapon.

Just my two cents!
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Old December 30th, 2005, 06:20 PM   #18
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By the way, at the end of "The Living Legend" when Cain is preparing to move in an finish off the two baseships doesn't he say words to this effect...."Arm all air to air missiles and prepare them for point blank launch. Not even their shields can protect them"............

I assume if the Cylon baseships at shields then battlestars did as well.
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Old December 30th, 2005, 06:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton3
By the way, at the end of "The Living Legend" when Cain is preparing to move in an finish off the two baseships doesn't he say words to this effect...."Arm all air to air missiles and prepare them for point blank launch. Not even their shields can protect them"............

I assume if the Cylon baseships at shields then battlestars did as well.
And mere seconds before that he ordered 'electronic defenses to maximum'.

Yeah, battlestars had force shields of some kind - they were just never discussed.

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Old January 3rd, 2006, 03:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Dawg
Yeah, battlestars had force shields of some kind - they were just never discussed.
Never discussed and not overly relied on to get them out of every bit of trouble to come their way like on some other shows...which adds more realism IMO.

I read up above here someone mentioning structural integrity fields and inertial dampening fields. I can possibly go with the inertial dampening fields, because they did have artificial gravity, but I can't buy into them having structural integrity fields at all. When the Galactica maneuvered, you could tell that she was massive, moved exactly and overall was majestic, she was not like the Enterprise....completely weightless, could turn on a dime and cheap looking in movement....again unlike certain other shows (ok ok...star trek!).

Star Trekian technologies aren't a good thing...too many lame ways to get you out of trouble, also they give the show more a sense of fantasy than realism. Sure...it can look neat on screen, but I always thought the Enterprise jumping around like it does...doing all those turns and stuff....makes the ship look more like a ballet dancer than something mean that can blow stuff up.
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 06:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Westy
When the Galactica maneuvered, you could tell that she was massive, moved exactly and overall was majestic, she was not like the Enterprise....completely weightless, could turn on a dime and cheap looking in movement....again unlike certain other shows (ok ok...star trek!).
Ok, now, quit pickin' on Trek..... that's the 2nd half of me name!!

****

This is an interesting thought, though, about the ships being weightless. Technically, both ships would be weightless in the vacuum of space but, I think what you may be referring to is 'mass' or perhaps a better word would be 'displacement'. Similar to ocean vessels, the ship's size would have a bearing on it's maneuverability, or turning radius, -- a PT boat would be more maneuverable than an aircraft carrier.

When comparing the Galactica to the Enterprise-D or -E, the Galactica was either just slightly longer than the Enterprise or up to 3 times as large, depending on which Galactica ship measurement is used. I've seen some peg the Galactica size at 2000 ft and some say 6000 ft. (Does anyone have the 'official word' on this?) According to the following website, the Enterprise (Galaxy class) measures out at 643 m, a bit more than 1900 feet.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...chart-1060.jpg
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Old January 5th, 2006, 03:16 PM   #22
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Default Earth Alliance type Energy web?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter noble
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/.../Debating.html

Go here and scroll down and you'll see the Big G's shields in action!

Peter
I've been looking for visual evidence for the Colonials using a form of "electric armor" for quite some time!

http://dfn.dnmediagroup.com/story.ph...845&C=thisweek

As for "projected" shields? There is a point diverter mentioned in BSG literature that I've always figured was a working magnetic diverter or MASER scanner;

You would build both in tandem to get this to work;

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclo...ar_ramjet.html

Thank you.

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Old January 5th, 2006, 03:51 PM   #23
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Default That is a good analogy for ships, but..............

................we are discussing ROCKETS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
Ok, now, quit pickin' on Trek..... that's the 2nd half of me name!!

****

This is an interesting thought, though, about the ships being weightless. Technically, both ships would be weightless in the vacuum of space but, I think what you may be referring to is 'mass' or perhaps a better word would be 'displacement'. Similar to ocean vessels, the ship's size would have a bearing on it's maneuverability, or turning radius, -- a PT boat would be more maneuverable than an aircraft carrier.

When comparing the Galactica to the Enterprise-D or -E, the Galactica was either just slightly longer than the Enterprise or up to 3 times as large, depending on which Galactica ship measurement is used. I've seen some peg the Galactica size at 2000 ft and some say 6000 ft. (Does anyone have the 'official word' on this?) According to the following website, the Enterprise (Galaxy class) measures out at 643 m, a bit more than 1900 feet.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...chart-1060.jpg
For matter in micro-gravity, or on a ballistic trajectory; you refer to its inertial mass as the measurement.

Displacement is the acceleration of gravity measurement(weight) on a given mass to produce neutral buoyancy(float) in a given volume of displaced water.

Maneuvarability in space is strictly based on the ratio of thrust to inertial mass involved.

A unit with a ratio of 4/1(thrust to inertial mass) is more maneuverable on its vector than a unit with a ratio 2/1. That is a function independent of SIZE.

As always;
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Old January 5th, 2006, 04:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles
................we are discussing ROCKETS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
Ok, now, quit pickin' on Trek..... that's the 2nd half of me name!!

****

This is an interesting thought, though, about the ships being weightless. Technically, both ships would be weightless in the vacuum of space but, I think what you may be referring to is 'mass' or perhaps a better word would be 'displacement'. Similar to ocean vessels, the ship's size would have a bearing on it's maneuverability, or turning radius, -- a PT boat would be more maneuverable than an aircraft carrier.

When comparing the Galactica to the Enterprise-D or -E, the Galactica was either just slightly longer than the Enterprise or up to 3 times as large, depending on which Galactica ship measurement is used. I've seen some peg the Galactica size at 2000 ft and some say 6000 ft. (Does anyone have the 'official word' on this?) According to the following website, the Enterprise (Galaxy class) measures out at 643 m, a bit more than 1900 feet.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/s...-chart-1060.jpg
For matter in micro-gravity, or on a ballistic trajectory; you refer to its inertial mass as the measurement.

Displacement is the acceleration of gravity measurement(weight) on a given mass to produce neutral buoyancy(float) in a given volume of displaced water.

Maneuvarability in space is strictly based on the ratio of thrust to inertial mass involved.

A unit with a ratio of 4/1(thrust to inertial mass) is more maneuverable on its vector than a unit with a ratio 2/1. That is a function independent of SIZE.

As always;

Agreed. I used the naval analogy only because more folks might be familiar with it than with space vessels.

Much thanks on the explanation of maneuverability.

So, if I understand correctly, a Battlestar would be just as maneuverable as a Viper as long as the Battlestar matched the Viper's 'thrust to inertial mass' ratio?


Hmm...

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Old January 5th, 2006, 04:48 PM   #25
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Default Water versus Space

Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
Agreed. I used the naval analogy only because more folks might be familiar with it than with space vessels.

Much thanks on the explanation of maneuverability.

So, if I understand correctly, a Battlestar would be just as maneuverable as a Viper as long as the Battlestar matched the Viper's 'thrust to inertial mass' ratio?


Hmm...

Correct.

As long as the roll, pitch, yaw, rotate thrust axes as well as the main engines' thrust vectors maintain a constant equivalent ratio to inertial mass to that of a Viper, an Alligator should have equivalent moment of arc and acceleration to a Viper. If the thrust to inertial mass ratio is greater(and in a bigger rocket you can design this into it more easily than you could in a small rocket) the Alligator would out-rotate and out-accelerate a Viper.

The moment of inertia is the primary matter impedence property to overcome in space.

You don't have the friction of drag of air as you would have with aircraft, or of water as you would have with ships.

In space, its simpler; you have a vacuum, therefore minimal drag.

1. Moment of inertia
2. Gravitational tractor
3. Thrust to inertial mass

Are the primary physical parameters on the rocket.

Note that because of the(current) need to expel mass to obtain thrust that the ratios increase as the rocket's mass decreases?*

* This holds true as your relativistic mass increases over the delta vee as the constants for thrust mass expelled increase correspondent; as with the mass of the rocket at .9c+ when the inertial masses seem to approach infinity. Remember that this thrust to mass function is a directly proportional ratio, and is an observer viewpoint derived measurement. If you are inside the rocket you won't measure the rocket changing mass, nor would you detect a relativistic increase in mass expelled thrust.

As an extenal observer? You would be looking at the formation of a hypermass as it zipped by you at .9(bar)c^10


As always,
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Old January 6th, 2006, 02:16 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by BST
Ok, now, quit pickin' on Trek..... that's the 2nd half of me name!!

LOL! Nothing personal! I still love TOS Trek though. And some of TNG...and a couple Voyager too. I lost interest when the focus moved from the people to whatever tech the writters could think up to save the day, that's all I was basically saying.
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Old January 6th, 2006, 02:35 PM   #27
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No problem, Westy.

I just have to stomp my feet every now and then. Sometimes with my shoes on. But, I never do it when I'm holding a cup of coffee.

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Old January 6th, 2006, 06:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
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LOL! Nothing personal! I still love TOS Trek though. And some of TNG...and a couple Voyager too. I lost interest when the focus moved from the people to whatever tech the writters could think up to save the day, that's all I was basically saying.
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Old January 7th, 2006, 05:32 PM   #29
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Default Detour; bad SCIENCE fiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion Draco
'Like a Balloon...And something bad happens...'
In science, its called a pin.

Berman Trek.

Yuck.

It kind of grates on the nerves to be ;

holodecked,
timelooped,
particle of the weeked,
and technobabbled ad nauseum.

Plus; to have to endure Patrick Stewart, or Kate Mulgrew acting (Mrs. Columbo). Or see Scott Bakula miscast as an actor(Best actor on that show was the dog.) Avery Brooks(Old Stoneface) at least tried.

Bring back Kirk!

As always;
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Old January 7th, 2006, 06:49 PM   #30
Centurion Draco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles
In science, its called a pin.

Berman Trek.

Yuck.

It kind of grates on the nerves to be ;

holodecked,
timelooped,
particle of the weeked,
and technobabbled ad nauseum.

Plus; to have to endure Patrick Stewart, or Kate Mulgrew acting (Mrs. Columbo). Or see Scott Bakula miscast as an actor(Best actor on that show was the dog.) Avery Brooks(Old Stoneface) at least tried.

Bring back Kirk!

As always;
You must remember the Futurama episode with the original trek cast, and the energy field alien? I think it's 'Where no fan has gone before'.
They go on about how it always ends up with some incredibly complicated science solution, that then gets summed up in an incredibly simple analogy.
At which point I think Leela comes up with the plan which involves reconfiguring the energy-motron and using the ships phasers, tuned to the energy field's frequency to overload his molecular quantum matrix (or something)
And Bender turns around and says: 'Like putting too much air in a balloon!'

But when it invariably all goes tits up, Fry in a panic refers to the plan as 'like a balloon... and something bad happens'.

hmm, guess you had to be there, it's not funny reading it

So saying, I did love the next gen! Even though the last season or so wasn't up to scratch.
Yesterday's Enterprise, Inner light, Tapestry. You just can't fault them!
DS9 was OK.
Voyager I kind of watched until Brad Dourif got killed off, but never really liked it.
Enterprise I only watch if I want to make myself angry for the rest of the day.

Weirdly, I'm half way through watching the DVDs of B5 at the moment.
I'm savouring every moment, as we are nearly mid-way into season three. Which of course is some of the greatest TV sci-Fi ever written.
In fact, just watched my personal fav (or one of them) Severed Dreams.
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