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Old May 31st, 2004, 07:33 PM   #1
CaptainApollo
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Default Reconquest of the Twelve Colonies of Man

Reconquest of the Twelve Colonies of Man

If the Battlestar Galactica and the Rag-Tag Fleet got to Earth,
evaded the Cylons,
and gave there advanced technology to us....

After we had populated new Worlds, and spread humanity back across the Galaxy,

With a built up Battlestar Fleet,.... should we Humans go back to the Twelve Colonies of Man to reconquest them?

The Twelve Colonies of Man are humanities birthright,
its not right to have them as Cylon Worlds....


Take care,
CaptainApollo
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Old May 31st, 2004, 08:18 PM   #2
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With the exception of BSG 1980 which most people discount as never happening in BSG cannon there is no time referance to when BSG takes place. Adama's stated that he hoped that Earth may already have the technology to resist the cylons. Since the series was cancelled before this idea was fully developed we'll never know for sure.

The point I'm making is Earth may have equalled or surpassed Colonial Technolgy by the time the fleet arrives.

Either way Earth becomes the front lines. Victory on Earth could and should lead to counter attack and the reclaiming of the Colonies. A question is have the cylons fouled the Colonies to the point that recolonization is impossible?

So many storyline possibilities remain - too bad hollywood can't see that.
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Old June 1st, 2004, 09:55 AM   #3
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We do know that the events of BG are supposed to take place sometime after Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon in 1969. This scene (from "Hand of God", I think) invalidates G80 since 1980-1969 = 11, which is less than the 30 yahrens that were supposed to have passed prior to G80. Unfortunately, it still doesn't give us a better idea of when it was supposed to have taken place.

Hopefully, we on Earth will continue to develop, so if something like BG actually happens, we'd be able to marshall resources and knowledge to do something about it.

Since so much was left undone, there's no telling what happened in the Colonies. TommyBoy70 is right, it's a shame those stories aren't being told.
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Old June 1st, 2004, 03:21 PM   #4
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The colonies are lost. Cain wanted to run the colonial flag up on Gamorray and use it as a base from which to launch attacks. In 1980 Adama even asks Zee when seeing the Zero-Gravity ship for the first time about retaking their worlds. Zee responds no since the colonials only had enough materials to build one. The only way the colonials could retake their worlds is if Larson had had a BG/Buck Rogers crossover since the Earth of the 25th century is advanced enough to do it.
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Old June 1st, 2004, 07:14 PM   #5
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Actually the transmission of the moon landing was traveling at light speed over a vast distance.....how far nobody can know. Much time may have passed on Earth while that transmission traveled into space, decades at least, perhaps centuries.
The Earth could be very advanced indeed by the time the rag tag fleet arrives.
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 09:05 AM   #6
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If the Twelve Colonies were located in the Proxima Centauri solar system then the moon landing broadcast would only take about 4.3 years, but I would think that they would be much further away, otherwise they would never have lost contact with Earth in the first place. Interesting question: where are the Twelve Colonies?
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 11:32 AM   #7
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Assuming that the Galactica hasnít traveled too great a distance between WOG and HOG, they are probably somewhere in one of the smaller galaxies between here and Andromeda, such as Andromeda III or IV, or NGC185 (based on the idea that a sectar = 41.67 Terran days = .1142 Terran year: 19 million sectars is approximately 2,200,000 light years). This might put their home galaxy as Andromeda, or perhaps Triangulum.

This suggests, however, that there is something about the nature of certain radio frequencies that act differently than higher EM frequencies in the deeps of space. This is supported by Boomerís statements in HOG that the signal from Earth could be intergalactic, and could be 100, 1000, or 10,000 yahrens old. If the frequencies in question were subject to the same laws of the universe that we assume light is, then even an age of 10,000 is too young for intergalactic travel (the closest galaxy to us is about 80,000 ly)

All of this is of course an attempt to reconcile what we are told and shown in the series with our world. In order to do that, we must assume that our understanding of the nature of the universe and its laws is fundamentally flawed, or at least grossly incomplete, and that the Colonials know a very different universe than we do.

None of this really tells us how long it will take them to get to Earth, nor at what point of development they would find Earth when they did arrive. We might as well assume that they will find Earth much further advanced than we are today, and that with a little shared technology, the colonies will be reclaimed...that is after all what Adama said they were going to do.

JJR
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 11:50 AM   #8
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Einstein's Theory of Relativity is only right until someone disproves it. I would like to live to see that. After all, no one thought that man could fly even as recently as 150 years ago, and now look at where we fly to and how fast.

So, the laws of the universe as we understand them are limited by what we are capable of understanding and how far our technology has advanced. Neither the sky nor even the universe is the limit. It is only our current understanding of the universe that has a limit.
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 12:57 PM   #9
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All great points, however I believe the answer for the discrepancies could be that Larson couldn't get Hatch and Benedict back for 1980. Setting the show 30 years ahead gave him the opportunity of getting a believable storyling. Kent McCord as a grown up Boxey aka Captain Troy and Barry Van Dyke as Dillon. I always wondered about the origins of Dillon. Could he have been Starbuck's and Cassi son?( Hatch changed the character to Dalton in the novels.) Could he have been Cain and Cassi's lovechild?
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Old June 3rd, 2004, 02:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unowhoandwhy
Einstein's Theory of Relativity is only right until someone disproves it. I would like to live to see that. After all, no one thought that man could fly even as recently as 150 years ago, and now look at where we fly to and how fast.

So, the laws of the universe as we understand them are limited by what we are capable of understanding and how far our technology has advanced. Neither the sky nor even the universe is the limit. It is only our current understanding of the universe that has a limit.
Very succinct! Can I quote this on my BSG site?

Thanks,

JJR
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Old June 4th, 2004, 07:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justjackrandom
Very succinct! Can I quote this on my BSG site?

Thanks,

JJR
Sure. What's your site, I love checkng out BSG sites.
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Each smallest act of kindness reverbrates across great distances and spans of time, affecting lives unknown to the one whose generous spirit was the source of this good echo, because kindness is passed on and grows each time it's passed, until a simple courtesy becomes an act of selfless courage years later and far away. Likewise, each small meanness, each expression of hatred, each act of evil.

This Momentous Day, H. R. White


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Old June 4th, 2004, 01:45 PM   #12
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Default Web page.

http://www.geocities.com/gilesdancer/index.html

Its still under major construction, and I am more concerned with content right now than looks, but I'll address its look once I've got all of the content up. I'm still doing research as well (think I figured out what "lason" is!)

A great deal of what is or will be on there may contradict current ideas of how things work in the Colonial world, but they all fit the information given in the series. This includes things like the idea that the Colonials don't use a special star drive, and are limited to a "relative" speed of just past C, yet are able to consider travel on a galactic scale reasonable; and that Vipers and Raiders fire projectiles.

JJR
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Old June 4th, 2004, 07:41 PM   #13
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Hello folkes,

Thanks alot for all the great comments, I appreciate them alot. As for Galactica 1980, I personally, don't even count that in my "Battlestar Galactica". For me, (and this is just me), I only count the original BSG season (although I must admit the "Return of Starbuck" with Starbuck, and "Cy" was a fantasatic episode, a first-class one ).

I guess what I'm asking is if the Battlestar Galactica makes it to Earth, (whether we are advanced or not), wouldn't we join with our Human Bretheren, and wnat to re-claim the Twelve Colonies of Man? Those Planets are Humanities birthright.


One angle that could be used, is the Legend of Atlantis. The Legends says that Atlantis destroyed itself about 12,000 years ago.

The BSG Calender speaks of "the 7th Millenium of Time" (7000 years) at last man will know Peace (after the 1000 Yarhen (Year) War with the Cylons).


Anyways.... just an angle "perhaps Atlantis was the 13th Tribe of Kobols settlement"....?


Food-for-thought eh....

It could explain, storyline wise.... how we Earthers' "lost our Kobolian Advanced Knowledge"....

It was lost during the destruction of Atlantis....



Take care,
CaptainApollo
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Old June 5th, 2004, 09:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainApollo
Reconquest of the Twelve Colonies of Man

If the Battlestar Galactica and the Rag-Tag Fleet got to Earth,
evaded the Cylons,
and gave there advanced technology to us....

After we had populated new Worlds, and spread humanity back across the Galaxy,

With a built up Battlestar Fleet,.... should we Humans go back to the Twelve Colonies of Man to reconquest them?

The Twelve Colonies of Man are humanities birthright,
its not right to have them as Cylon Worlds....


Take care,
CaptainApollo
Absolutey
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Old June 7th, 2004, 07:06 AM   #15
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Default the 13th tribe, Atlantis, and The Day After Tomorrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainApollo
Hello folkes,


One angle that could be used, is the Legend of Atlantis. The Legends says that Atlantis destroyed itself about 12,000 years ago.

The BSG Calender speaks of "the 7th Millenium of Time" (7000 years) at last man will know Peace (after the 1000 Yarhen (Year) War with the Cylons).


Anyways.... just an angle "perhaps Atlantis was the 13th Tribe of Kobols settlement"....?


Food-for-thought eh....

It could explain, storyline wise.... how we Earthers' "lost our Kobolian Advanced Knowledge"....

It was lost during the destruction of Atlantis....

Trying to sync the Colonial Calendar with a Terran one based on any canonical info is nigh on to impossible. It should be noted however that this idea is one that Larson considered a possibility when doing the show. He was very influenced by von Daniken, who's first work was something of a sensation at that time ( he talks about this on the DVD).

Earth, however, might have proven to be a bad place for the 13th tribe to settle...and still might be. If you haven't seen The Day After Tomorrow, check it out, then read the Popular Science article on it.

I haven't been able to sleep since...

JJR
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Old June 9th, 2004, 04:22 PM   #16
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The colonies would have to be somewhere inside the Milky Way galaxy. There is I believe a reference in Hand of God that the colonials are leaving their galaxy (I am not sure--DVD friends--Is that correct?). This reference has to be a continuity error are a semantic script mistake. Throughout TOS the only ships that move at "light speed" are the Battlestars. As such it would be impossible for the rag tag fleet to EVER traverse the distances between two galaxies. Without knowing where Earth is it would also be insane to attempt a trans-galactic voyage. Assumming that this is an error therefor the colonies and Earth lay in the same galaxy.

During Battlestar TOS I don't remember them ever making reference to travelling beyond light speed so I will assume for the sake of a hypothesis that at most the Galactica is travelling at the speed of one light year per year. If we assume that the original colonist from Kobol reached Earth in just a couple years and that they are the ancestors of Egyptian civilization (and everything we know about evolution is not true <unless Earth is really also Kobol>) then roughly 7,000 years ago Kobol and Earth were probably only 2 to 3 light years apart. If we assume the colonies were in the opposite direction they were probably about 4 to six light years from Earth. However since stars orbit the galactic center of mass in different orbits and may be moved over time by chance encounters with other stars it is likely the distance between Earth, Kobol, and the 12 colonies have been separating ever since. Since no star is moving faster than light speed and all stars tend to move around the center of the milky way in the same general direction it is likely that the colonies and Earth are separated by at most 1,000 light years. Although this does not seem far on the grand scheme of things it would mean the colonials would need probably 500-1,500 years to reach Earth.

Since we know they received transmissions of the Apollo moon landing and that it could have originated either fairly recently if they are actually close by or up to 1,000 years in the future, Earth technology could be anywhere from our current level up to a 1,000 years advanced from today.

My personal guess is that Kobol, Terra, Earth, and the colonies are in the same local group of stars in the spiral arm of the milky Way Galaxy we reside in. We probably orbit a common center of gravity in our local group and travel at similar speeds about the galaxy. As such the colonials and cylons are probably no more than 50 light years away at most. The Earth during TOS is probably any time from 1975-2025. If they actually headed straight here they would probably make it to Earth anywhere in the 1980-2040 time frame.

Something for TOS actor fans to cheer. No matter how far away the Galactica is, as it's speed approaches light speed, time relative to the Galactica and the warriors slows down. It is possible that the colonials could travel a vast distance like 300-400 light years on a 500 year trip but age to the point that the actors as they appear today would be scientifically conceivable as they age only 35-50 years. You could have the current crew of Galactica finding Earth after a supposed "24 yahren" trip and find the Earth in the year 2244 located 200 light years from the colonies. As long as the colonies can move at .9 light years they could cover a distance of 600 light years but seem to themselves to cover the distance in two generations.

Once you spread this much time and distance between you and the cylons all possibilities become open. A chasing cylon fleet could end up fighting the Earth forces and the colonial remnants 600 years in the future, return to the cylon homeworld to report the status of the conflict only to find out the cylon empire collapsed hundreds of years earlier. The effects of time dilation seem to make interstellar wars beyond about 10 light years logistically impossible to sustain from a homeworld.
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Old June 9th, 2004, 04:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justjackrandom
Earth, however, might have proven to be a bad place for the 13th tribe to settle...and still might be. If you haven't seen The Day After Tomorrow, check it out, then read the Popular Science article on it.

I haven't been able to sleep since...

JJR
Man has been waiting and living in fear of global calamity since man's time began. The Aztecs sacrificed tens of thousands to keep the sun in place. We may live in a time of science but people take their deep fears and recast them into a modern form. Sleep well at night. This pseudoscience movie is about as ridiculous as anything out there. Since the turn of the last century global temperatures actually DECLINED for most of the previous 100 years. There MAY have been a slight up tick in the final 10 years of the last century. This uptick coincides with the implementation of clean air standards in the Western industrialized countries. It is increasingly appearing that the first 80 years of the 20th century the Earth suffered from a decrease in light that reached the surface as a result of pollutants in the upper atmosphere. This slightly reduced global temperature. As these pollutants were cleaned out the temperature rose back to previous levels. we see no evidence however of green house gass temperature increases actually occurring despite all the various computer generated models. If the third world industrializes without environmental standards we may see a return to the lower temperatures of the last polluted century.

Even if global warming was a reality it is just as likely that the result would be an expansion of the area of the Earth that humans could farm into more Northern latitudes thereby increasing the overall food supply. It could also open commerce through the NorthWest passage greatly reducing world wide commerce cost.

Currently we are in what climatalogist call an interglacial warming. This is a warm (hot) period in an overall cold time. The biggest climatic threat we face is a return to the normally cold weather throughout most of this geological time period.

The only constant on the Earth is change. Sleep well at night. If things change significantly during our lifetimes I am sure we will adapt and I can bet you it won't occur "the day after tomorrow".
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