In Harm's Way

I've mentioned this in a few other threads but haven't heard much discussion on the subject. Usually I post on the pro-mini forum but think this is more of an anti-mini subject.

Does anybody other than me realize that the mini is more of a remake of "In Harm's Way", a black and white classic John Wayne movie than it is a reimagination of Battlestar Galactica?

After watching the mini I realized this instantly. I also found that this subject is partially censored at SCIFI (Reply OK/Thread NO). I did an internet search on "Battlestar Galactica In Harm's Way" and found an interview where Moore speaks about both Adama and Tigh being based on characters from "In Harm's Way".

What Moore does not say but is obvious to a fan of "In Harm's Way" is that nearly all of the characters and all the combat sequences come from "In Harm's Way". If there is any interest in this subject I will write the details later. Most of the character problems in the mini are where Moore sloppily shoehorned two or more characters from "In Harm's Way" into one character or split characters in the mini. The biggest example of combining and splicing a character from "In Harm's Way" poorly into the mini was Starbuck.

The other question I believe this will raise is what will the series look like if there is one? Since Moore basically plagarized "In Harm's Way" with no credit what will he do next? There is no "In Harm's Way" series to copy. Maybe he will follow TOS from here on out or maybe he will continue to copy other classic naval movies and put them into the Galactica mythos. The whole concept of "reimagination" may be nothing but spin. I saw little beyond the special effects I hadn't seen before. Even the enemy within concept is stolen from "In Harm's Way".

I am a pro-mini person but unlike most those nights I was looking forward to seeing an old friend, Battlestar Galactica when unexpectedly another old friend came instead!

If you never saw "In Harm's Way" go rent it. Most of what Moore was trying to do will suddenly become clear.

[Sept17th]

Originally posted by antelope526
Does anybody other than me realize that the mini is more of a remake of "In Harm's Way", a black and white classic John Wayne movie than it is a reimagination of Battlestar Galactica?

Most of the character problems in the mini are where Moore sloppily shoehorned two or more characters from "In Harm's Way" into one character or split characters in the mini. The biggest example of combining and splicing a character from "In Harm's Way" poorly into the mini was Starbuck.

Maybe he will follow TOS from here on out or maybe he will continue to copy other classic naval movies and put them into the Galactica mythos. The whole concept of "reimagination" may be nothing but spin. I saw little beyond the special effects I hadn't seen before. Even the enemy within concept is stolen from "In Harm's Way".

I’m aware “nothing new has been written since Shakespeare”. I’m aware Harms Way influenced Moore.

If the above is all true then once again I ask what has Ron Moore fixed about Battllestar Galactica? The two problems with TOS overuse of FX shots and “poor” writing.

The mini-series gave us boring space battles with slow moving nukes, bullets and muffled sound.

The gripes about original series writing lack of good science and derivative scripts of movies for example The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, which I screened last night.

So in the grand “re-invention” of the space opera what was fixed? Not much but everything else that worked was sure “jacked up”.

[shiningstar]

Good thread antelope. Thanks for posting.

At the start of "In Harm's Way" (Battlestar Galactica 2003) Captain Rockwell Torrey (Commander Adama) and his XO, Commander Paul Eddington (Colonel Tigh) discuss that they are on an obsolete warship (battlestar). I believe the word museum piece is used in both movies. Torrey's heavy cruiser (Galactica) is a remnant from an earlier war, World War I (First Cylon War). It does not have the latest technology, RADAR (networked computers). It is referred to as bat blind. The Day is December 7, 1941 (Day of Cylon Halocaust). The cruiser (Galactica) is alone in the Pacific (space) far enough from the fleet moored at Pearl Harbor (Picon). It is not attacked during the initial strike.

Soon it becomes apparant that the heavy cruiser (Galactica) is the only surviving capital warship. It is joined by a destroyer (obsolete vipers). The destroyer (vipers) under command of LTJG McConnell (Starbuck) screen for the heavy cruiser (Galactica) when a Japanese (Cylon) submarine (raider) fires a torpedo (missile) into the hull of the cruiser (Galactica). LTJG McConnell's destroyer (Starbucks viper) destroys the submarine (raider). The hull breach threatens to sink the cruiser (Galactica). Water tight doors (airlocks) are closed. The XO takes personal charge of the hull breach situation. The cruiser (Galactica) is saved.

As time warrants I will try to slowly but surely show a comparison of all the major characters and subplots of the mini and and their twins in "In Harm's Way".

Captain Rockwell Torrey (Commander Adama) is the commander of an obsolete heavy cruiser (Galactica) prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor (Cylon Halocaust). Captain Torrey (Commander Adama) is a divorced father late in his military career. He is estranged from his son, Ensign Jerrod Torrey (Captain Lee Adama). He meets his son after years as a result of military orders. He has an awkward scene where he tries to talk with his son for the first time. To break the ice he asks his son about his son's mother, his former wife. His son replies that she is remarried. They do not patch up their differences at that time.

As a result of the war and Captain Rockwell Torrey's military knowledge he is promoted to Admiral and made Operational Commander of Operation Skyhook (Commander Adama takes over as "Fleet Commander"). Admiral Torrey starts a relationship with a Nurse Commander named Maggie (Laura Roslin). The fleet deploys to the Gavavutu theatre (Ragnar FTL jump). Admiral Torrey leads the fleet in a climatic surface battle against a numerically superior enemy force (Adama fights the Cylons at Ragnar prior to the final FTL jump.). Admiral Torrey (Adama) lay wounded in a hospital ship (in the bay with the dead warriors) with Maggie (President Roslin). An Admiral gives a speach to Admiral Torrey that says he is not defeated but successful and that he will stomp on to Tokyo (Earth).

Commander Paul Eddington is the first character from "In Harm's Way" to be spliced into two charcters in the mini. It is this splicing and combining of characters that weakens the writing in the mini.

Commander Paul Eddington (Colonel Tigh) is the XO of the heavy cruiser (Galactica) at the start of the movie. He is an alcoholic as a result of issues with his philandering (deleted scene in the mini) wife. He starts a fight with other officers when off duty. He saves the cruiser (Galactica) during the hull breach subplot.

Commander Eddington (Starbuck) is placed in the brig after starting a fight with other officers. He (She) is released by Captain Torrey (Commander Adama). Commander Eddington (Starbuck) flys his (her) aircraft (viper) prior to the battle of Gavavutu (Ragnar) in the clouds. He (She) discovers the extent of the Japanese (Cylon) fleet and the desperate situation they are really in.

[kingfish]

As I stated in another thread Eddington has his reasons for flying the mission. Sadly they aren't heroic. Eddington in a rage rapes the woman that Rock Torrey's son plans on marrying. Burgess meridith asks if Eddington should be considered for a metal and Torrey states no. Look for a young Caroll O'Connor in this flick and a very youthful Larry Hagman of Dallas fame as well.

Good thread antelope.

I caught In Harm's way again recently. Besides the irony of using a movie from 1965 to 'update' Battlestar Galactica, I really think Moore used the wrong movie to draw inspiration from. It's also interesting that Moore looked to a movie about the attack on Perl Harbor to draw parallels between his version of BSG and 9-11.
I still get the feeling that the script and the production were overly rushed. I wouldn't be surprised if he caught In Harm's Way on TCM one night while trying to meet the deadline to write the BSG mini and thought "Oooh, this looks gooood!"

[larocque6689]

I caught a bit of Harm's Way recently and found that Jamie Bamber's Apollo in his earlier scenes with Daddy were actually MORE LIKEABLE than the character's equivalent scenes in In Harm's Way. In the son's conrontation with John Wayne, The Duke wanted to pick him up by the neck and throw him in the water. So did I!

Congratulations to Jamie Bamber for actually improving on the script with a good performance and playing a more likeable character than the original, if it can be believed.

Eddington is the perfect "flawed hero" that Moore said he was looking to do. I think Moore messed up however by splitting Eddington out into two characters. The Colonel Tigh of the mini appears to have all the dark flawed side and none of the heroic wild side. Starbuck as a combination character who contains the positive sides of Eddington just doesn't come off well to me. Kingfish is right that Eddington had his reasons to pull the recon in the clouds mission. I wish they could have killed off the dark Tigh somehow using the same scene. With Starbuck pulling the mission it was just "following orders". As I said in other places the goal of preserving characters for a series really hurt the mini.

As for Moore using "In Harm's Way" because he was rushed, I don't think that was an issue. I read an interview where Moore made it clear he is a big time naval historian and fan of "In Harm's Way". He states openly that Adama and Tigh were based on Admiral Torrey and Commander Eddington. What I have come to conclude however is that the entire project was a remake of "In Harm's Way". I think the only changes were done to facilitate a possible series in the future and shoehorn the mythos. I think this would be a touchy subject to Moore since it stabbs straight into the heart of the overall "reimagination" issue. I think Moore knows exactly what he did but doesn't want to publicize it. Whether those people who funded this project understand what he did I can only guess. The bottom line is that Moore loves making SCIFI shows and he loves "In Harm's Way". This was probabaly the easiest way he could fund the "In Harm's Way" SCIFI remake project he probabaly dreamed of doing for years. I think he fooled a lot of people but I don't think he was in a hurry.

As mentioned earlier in this thread the character of Ensign Jerrod Torrey is the base for Apollo in the mini. Apollo however is another composite character. Apollo is Jerrod Torrey at both the beginning and the end of the mini but his role with President Roslin on Colonial One and the subsequent MIA and reuniting subplot is based on the character of LTJG McConnel. I'll mention LTJG McConnell in more detail later.

Ensign Jerrod Torrey (Lee Adama) is an elitist Ivy league (college background of Lee Adama unknown) junior officer who shows open disdain for the military and the chain of command. He is estranged from his father, CPT Rockwell Torrey (Commander Adama). CPT Rockwell Torrey did not even know his son was in the Navy until CPT Torrey discovered he was stationed in Hawaii through another officer (Lee Adama was sent to the Galactica as a result of military orders). The estrangement is based on CPT Torreys divorce from Jerrod Torrey's mother many years ago (Although Lee Adama's mother is divorced from Commander Adama the estrangement is based on the death of Zack<shoe horn the mythos>). Ensign Torrey (Lee Adama) is obviously bothered by the respect and defference shown his father by the crew and sailors who have been with him. By the end of the movie Jerrod Torrey (Lee Adama) grows as a man and as a son. He comes to respect and understand his father. He has also come to respect the military and the sacrifices it entails. There is positive hope the two would be close in time. Unfortunately Jerrod Torrey is killed when his PT boat is rammed by a Japanese destroyer while screening for the fleet at the climatic battle of Gavavutu (Lee Adama's final scenes with the viper screening for the fleet at Ragnar are pretty similar. Since he was needed for a series his viper was damaged not destroyed and he was rescued).

Some of the issues that hurt the mini is that Jerrod Torrey was an Ensign not a LT like CPT Apollo. As such Apollo is a seasoned officer, Ensign Torrey was not. The early snotty Apollo does not match a man of his rank but it could reflect an ensign. In order to fix this problem they had to enhance the character. I will save that for another post.

Two of the most noble characters in "In Harm's Way" are LTJG McConnel and his wife. They tried in the mini to preserve their storyline through the characters of Apollo and Starbuck. The way they spliced and combined characters however weakened the potential it had.

LTJG McConnel (in this case Starbuck) commands the destroyer (viper) that defends the cruiser (Galactica) during the initial attack. He (She) destroys the enemy submarine (raider) but can not stop the torpedo (missile) strike starting the hull breach.

LTJG McConnell (now Apollo) goes missing in action. His wife (Starbuck) now fears he was killed. LTJG McConnel (Apollo) turns up alive. He and his wife (Starbuck) are reunited in an emotional scene.

Personally I think this was a wasted opportunity for Moore. He could have modeled Apollo 100% on LTJG McConnel and made Mrs. McConnell into Serena and gave them a kid named Boxey. At the end of the mini we would have been close to where we ended "Saga of a Star World". To keep the Jerrod Torrey story intact Moore could have made Jerrod Torrey into Zac, picked any reason for the estrangement and ended the mini with Zac's viper being destroyed screening for the fleet at Ragnar. We would have Apollo, Serena, and Boxey intact. Zac would have died in battle as the young heroic warrior he was..... what could have been.

The character that CPO Tyrol is based on was played by Carol O'Conner in "In Harm's Way". I forgot the characters name so any help from the fleet on this is appreciated. Both Tyrol and the character played by O'Conner were the head maintenance man on the cruiser (Galactica). Both were envisioned as fairly minor roles. Our own Aaron Douglas mentions this fact (originally a minor role) in his Q & A thread. You have to pat Aaron Douglas on the back however because he mentions that he improvised and modified his character to bring him out during the hull breach scene. As such he took a designed minor character in both the mini and it's source and transformed him into a fan favorite. Whether you are pro or anti-mini you must be pro-Aaron Douglas.

If this goes to series I think Aaron Douglas guaranteed himself a job and a fan base, something I don't think was guaranteed by the original script!

[repcisg]

This is a very good thread, I like the parallels you have drawn here.

Moore did not do Sci-fi any favors using In Harms Way as a model, for the remake. In Harms Way was it self is a composite of a number of battles and personalities drawn from the Guadalcanal campaign. As with the movie Battle of the Bulge (another composite) it did not do well at the box office. If Moore is the historian he says he is then he could have drawn his inspiration from the naval battle of Nov 11/12, 1942. Often referred to as the naval equivalent of a bar room knife fight between Cruisers and Battleships. Or he could have used the slug-fest of Nov 13/14 1942, between Japanese and American Battleships. Imagine if you will Battleships duking it out in the dark at point blank range! Or the Cruiser engagement of Nov 30.

There is no shortage of material from that period to draw on for the mini. Besides who said the Galactica had to be the only warship present at Ragnar? One of the criticisms of TOS is the lack of escorts, only Battlestars were present at Cimtar. Moore had the opportunity to introduce us to Colonial Cruisers and or Destroyers, fast ships going in harms way.

Just doing a little free association here, suppose he had drawn his inspiration from the Nov 13/14 battle. Two American Battleships with four destroyers engaged a Japanese Battle squadron with one Battleship two heavy Cruisers, two light cruisers and nine destroyers. The US lost three destroyers, with one Battleship and one destroyer shot up and one Battleship undamaged. The Japanese lost one Battleship and one destroyer.

We could have had the Galactica and her sister the Pegasus escorted by four Colonial destroyers at Ragnar. As the fleet escapes we see the Galactica undamaged and the Pegasus and one destroyer with her in need of serious repair. We are left with the basic story intact but with a greater opportunity for dynamic story interplay.

And as for Aaron - I think his charactor was the strongest and most believable of all the charactors.

You have some great ideas there. It's too bad Moore didn't work with them. Even in "In Harm's Way" the final battle included a variety of American ships against a large Japanese surface fleet. Since Moore has stated if the show goes to series he would like to redo "Living Legend" it would have been great if the Pegasus and at least a few colonial warships were at Ragnar. You're right, they could have had a much better final battle. Caine could have fought a rear guard battle as the Galactica and the rag tag fleet escaped. It would have been beautiful. Of course it would lay the work for a reunion episode down the road since the fate of the rear guard would be unknown to Adama and the Galactica.

The original "Living Legend" episodes always seemed to me to be a combination of the Battle of Midway and Patton. I would bet good money that a Moore version will be very similar to the movie "Midway". You only need 2 Battlestars and a lot of vipers versus a large cylon fleet with 4 (?) Basestars and their escorts. The whole Pegasus story was one of my favorites. They could retell it the same but improve the battle part to reflect the entire Midway experience. It would be a great three hour episode or miniseries.

[repcisg]

I am curious to see how Moore would explain Pegasus's appearance. It could not claim to have been cut off during 40 years of peace.

I thought the easiest way at this point would be to say it or any other surviving warship FTL jumped on it's own initiative beyond "the red line"--whatever that means. They could claim they were under "radio" silence or "radios" were knocked out when Adama ordered the fleet to meet at Ragnar. They could also write a script where they say they went to Ragnar late because of damage and found nobody there. Since Caine had no rag tag fleet he has been fighting his own war against the cylons since that day (Adama's original plan before he got stuck with the civilians and the President). He heard rumor of the Galactica from cylon transmissions but without the FTL coordinates of the post-Ragnar jump had no way of finding them.

[PlaidSquadron]

Excellent posts.

I, too, find it pretty amazing that there would be so many parallels if it was not intended. It is an easy way out, though. The target audience for the mini is probably least familar with movies from the 60s....

[dvo47p]

Originally posted by PlaidSquadron
Excellent posts.

I, too, find it pretty amazing that there would be so many parallels if it was not intended. It is an easy way out, though. The target audience for the mini is probably least familar with movies from the 60s....

THESE TWO SHOWS HAVE ABSOLUTELY & UTTERLY NOTHING IN COMMON, PERIOD

Ronald D. Moore liked Otto Preminger’s movie ‘In Harm's Way’, Ronnie even went took NROTC @ Cornell, so what’s with all the saluting on deck felgercarb?

‘In Harm's Way’ Capt. Paul Eddington was Kirk Douglas portrayed Adm. ‘Rock’ Torrey’s Chief of Staff, his wife cheated on him but was killed with her AAF boyfriend near Pearl by the Japanese.

NOBODY & I mean NOBODY crossed Capt. Paul Eddington & walked away! Patrick O'Neal’s character Cmdr. Neal Owynn crossed Rock Torrey, once, that was it, Eddington drank but, never on duty, he was no Col. Tigh. Eddington would not start a fight, because nobody WOULD EVER CONSIDER IT PERIOD!

Lt. j.g. Jere Torrey was estranged from his dad Adm. ‘Rock’, but they made up before Jere was KIA. Eddington raped Jere’s fiancée, took out a PBJ-1 medium bomber on a one way suicide recon mission after Jere’s fiancée killed herself when she found out she was pregnant from Eddington’s rape, & OD'ed.

Ronald D. Moore is no Otto Preminger and I positive he never will be mentioned as such.

Watch out Ronnie also invoiced Alfred Hitchcock, for Sagan’s sake!

Your original statement about these two movies have "absolutely nothing in common" I hope was meant as sarcasm.

Ron Moore in an interview I have read specifically states that he was inspired by "In Harm's Way" when writing the mini. He also specifically states that the characters of Commander Adama and Colonel Tigh are based on Rockwell Torrey and Paul Eddington from "In Harm's Way".

On some of the specific differences you state:

Colonel Tigh's wife was cheating on him. This is a deleted scene from the mini. It is the reason for his alcoholoic depression.

The "In Harms Way" scene of Tigh's wife fooling around was redone in the mini in the now famous (or infamous) red spine scene.

I assume just like "In Harm's Way" Colonel Tigh's wife was killed in the cylon attack.

Commander Eddington did start a fight, was thrown in the brig, and had to be signed out into the custody of Rock Torrey.

The scene of Commander Neal Owyn being slapped around by Eddington then thrown off the island was redone in the mini when Colonel Tigh had the human cylon abandoned to his own on Ragnar.

Just like Jerrod Torrey, Apollo made up with his father before the climatic battle. Jerrod died in battle --- Apollo is needed for a series.

Patricia Neil's character Maggie crossed Rock Torrey once...so did President Roslin. The final scene in "In Harm's Way" is between Rockwell Torrey and Maggie in the mini it's between Adama and Roslin.

The mini is a remake of "In Harm's Way" not a duplicate.

The whole Enemy Within subplot of Baltar and Cylon 6 is based on the Enemy Within subplot in "In Harm's Way" of Admiral Broderick and Commander Neil Owen.

Admiral Broderick (Baltar) is a highly respected member of the establishment. Both are sought for advice by the leaders of society at large (In the case of Admiral Broderick. He gives advice to CINCPAC after Pearl Harbor). Both make stupid decisions and although book or position smart neither have any street smarts. Both are primarily motivated by their personal situation not what is going on to society as a whole. Both are morally challenged.

Admiral Broderick (Baltar) has a sidekick named Commander Neil Owen (Cylon 6). Commander Owen (Cylon 6) is the real brains of the duo. Both manipulate their superior for their own personal benefit not the benifit of society or the military situation. Commander Owen (Cylon 6) although a military officer (human-cylon) is primarily motivated by how he will appear after the war in his position in the American (Cylon) government.

Commander Neal Owen (in this case represented by the cylon thrown off the Galactica at Ragnar) is fingered as an "enemy within". He is slapped around by Commander Eddington (brig scene with Colonel Tigh) and then forced to leave the operational theatre (left on Ragnar).

In addition Cylon 6 got to play the scene of Paul Eddington's cheating wife to include the naked back and the body of water background. No glowing spine in "In Harm's Way" but most of the "modern" sex scene was there in the 1965 version. Some people have asked on another thread if that was Cylon 6's picture Tigh destroys in the mini? I couldn't tell if it was but don't think so but it does add something to the "In Harm's Way" similarities if it was.

[kingfish]

Originally posted by antelope526
The character that CPO Tyrol is based on was played by Carol O'Conner in "In Harm's Way". I forgot the characters name so any help from the fleet on this is appreciated. Both Tyrol and the character played by O'Conner were the head maintenance man on the cruiser (Galactica). Both were envisioned as fairly minor roles. Our own Aaron Douglas mentions this fact (originally a minor role) in his Q & A thread. You have to pat Aaron Douglas on the back however because he mentions that he improvised and modified his character to bring him out during the hull breach scene. As such he took a designed minor character in both the mini and it's source and transformed him into a fan favorite. Whether you are pro or anti-mini you must be pro-Aaron Douglas.

If this goes to series I think Aaron Douglas guaranteed himself a job and a fan base, something I don't think was guaranteed by the original script!

Caroll O'Connor played Burke in the film.

[repcisg]

Actually there is very little that is new these days, I am still trying to get my mind around the dried up armadilo look. The gater just seemed to work better.

[dvo47p]

These two productions are not even ships that pass in the dark of night, the comparison is only a daydream of Ronald D. Moore, do not make the mistake of taking his ridiculous analogy at face value.

Originally posted by antelope526 Your original statement about these two movies have "absolutely nothing in common" I hope was meant as sarcasm.

Sarcasm as in mockery, RDM’s dubious claim to have used ‘In Harm’s Way’ is a best an analogy, albeit a piss poor one. WW II was fresh in the American consciousness. ‘In Harm’s Way’s’ end, we see Wayne broken and depressed in a hospital, with an amputated leg, a dead son, a dead substitute son (Eddington).

Dead friends, and a dead crew. What has he gained? Guilt and probably irremediable loss. Well, he still has Neal, but one gets the sense that he's hanging on to her like a life preserver rather than as a life-mate. Victory and its attendant glories have come at too high a price for Wayne. Even the cast credits at the end are somewhat shocking, with its roiling sea storms and explosions, finally ending with a detonation of an atomic bomb! ‘In Harm's Way’ may be the subtlest anti-war picture ever made. Those who think otherwise weren't paying close enough attention, so in this Ronald D. Moore is asinine, at best.

Originally posted by antelope526 Ron Moore in an interview I have read specifically states that he was inspired by "In Harm's Way" when writing the mini. He also specifically states that the characters of Commander Adama and Colonel Tigh are based on Rockwell Torrey and Paul Eddington from "In Harm's Way".[/B]

Ronnie ‘said’ he studied it and like it in school, only the simple could confuse ‘In Harm’s Way’ with The Scifi Channel’s original production of Battlestar Galactica 2003. Sure if you actually think Otto Preminger & Ron D. Moore have anything in common. Preminger made great pictures, Moore to the best of my knowledge & the imdb.com has never done an original program. He is a pick up guy, as in picked up by Star Trek: TNG executive producer Michael Pillar right out of college to write for ST: TNG, not and original production on his resume.

Originally posted by antelope526 Colonel Tigh's wife was cheating on him. This is a deleted scene from the mini. It is the reason for his alcoholic depression. [/B]

Douglas sinks into the bottle after the death of his cheating wife until the American fleet rebuilds and calls upon Wayne to lead one of the initial invasion forces. What does Tigh do to redeem himself, apologize to Starchick, and quit drinking, why not go out and take as many Cylons out in a blaze of heroism? POPPYCOCK! Ron D. Moore’s Tigh has only one redeeming value, Adama’s friendship.

Originally posted by antelope526 Commander Eddington did start a fight, was thrown in the brig, and had to be signed out into the custody of Rock Torrey.
The scene of Commander Neal Owyn being slapped around by Eddington then thrown off the island was redone in the mini when Colonel Tigh had the human Cylon abandoned to his own on Ragnar.
Just like Jerrod Torrey, Apollo made up with his father before the climatic battle. Jerrod died in battle --- Apollo is needed for a series. [/B]

Jere could be a Zac/Apollo but this is a Larsen creation, hardly Otto Preminger'. Ronnie never delved into Zac, this Cylon #6 outed was pure TV slock. Cmdr. Owyn was a spy of another US Navy Admiral, hardly a Jap.

Once Eddington was drunk, fought AAF guy, the same service of his adulterous wife died with, that was it, Rock got him out of the brig, then rescued him from oblivion when Nimitiz made Rock Admiral. He failed once more by raping young Jere’s fiancée @ a beach party, he then did that suicide mission not so much as to end his life but to rescue Operation SkyHook. Wayne/Rock knew what Douglas/Eddington had done ergo his curt NO when a decoration for Eddington was mentioned.

Originally posted by antelope526 Patricia Neil's character Maggie crossed Rock Torrey once...so did President Roslin. The final scene in "In Harm's Way" is between Rockwell Torrey and Maggie in the mini it's between Adama and Roslin. [/B]

Maggie loved Rock Torrey & Torrey reciprocated, Adama didn’t care for “That School Teacher”, any comparison is specious.

Originally posted by antelope526 The mini is a remake of "In Harm's Way" not a duplicate. [/B]

The mini is a remake of "In Harm's Way" get real antelope526, not by a long shot, except in the mind of Ron D. Moore, it is only a remake of “Saga of a Star War”, a creation of Glen A. Larson.

"In Harm's Way" a novel that was Preminger's sprawling World War II drama packs a lot into it, beginning with the attack on Pearl Harbor and ending a couple of years later with America's return to the South Pacific in force. John Wayne and Kirk Douglas star as a career naval captain and his self-pitying commander in the peacetime navy who are thrust into battle when Pearl Harbor is bombed while they are on maneuvers.

Soon into WWII, they are already scapegoated and passed over by the embarrassed Navy brass. Wayne/Rock romances a nurse and attempts a reconciliation with his estranged, spoiled son while Douglas/Eddington sinks into the bottle after the death of his cheating wife until the American fleet rebuilds and calls upon Wayne to lead one of the initial invasion forces. With a flawed but reformed Eddington that chose suicide for personnel failure, that saves the day!

Eddington is on the cruiser with then Captain Torrey prior to the death of his wife and prior to the attack at Pearl Harbor just like Colonel Tigh on the Galactica. Commander Eddington is not shaven, dressed properly, or ready for duty. Captain Torrey has a talk with him where he politely but firmly puts Eddington into his place. We are told Eddington was already busted from Naval Aviation prior to his assignment with an old friend, Captain Torrey. The situation with Colonel Tigh is pretty much the same. If anything "In Harm's Way" goes into far greater detail in the explanation. Both Tigh and Eddington have the put down/destroyed picture scene with the wife's photo on board the ship. This was prior to Eddington's knowledge of her death on December 7th.

Moore says he was inspired by "In Harm's Way". Moore himself says Adama and Tigh are based on Torrey and Eddington. This is not my theory or speculation. I just think this is far more than inspiration (bordering on plagarism since no credit is givin at the end of the mini). If you don't see it that way we can agree to disagree.

Moore did change aspects of "In Harm's Way" to fit the Galactica mythos. Obviously this is more a pilot than a stand alone movie. He did change things to facilitate a future series and I speculate may have intentional tried to put the relationships at the end of the mini so they reflected the situation between characters at the end of season 1 of TOS.

When I am done putting up my "In Harm's Way" mini comparisons I will try to elaborate on the mythos merger. I had a nice conversation with Dawg on the subject on the mini good forum.

Thanks for reading my thoughts on this even if we disagree!

The character played by Burgess Meredith (once again forgot his name) in "In Harm's Way" was the basis for the character Boomer in the mini.

Both were intel officers. Both were very unsure of themselves on the eve of battle. The conversation each has about going into battle is very similar.

The Burgess Meredith character however has no "enemy within" potential. Of couse if you delete the last Boomer scene in the mini, neither did she.

Boomer got the job of fixing the Galactica mythos by ensuring the landing on Caprica scene from "Saga of a Star World" was redone in the mini.

The Burgess Meredith character died in the final battle but of course we need Boomer and her cylon subplot for any potential series.

[dvo47p]

Originally posted by antelope526 Eddington is on the cruiser with then Captain Torrey prior to the death of his wife and prior to the attack at Pearl Harbor just like Colonel Tigh on the Galactica. Commander Eddington is not shaven, dressed properly, or ready for duty. Captain Torrey has a talk with him where he politely but firmly puts Eddington into his place. We are told Eddington was already busted from Naval Aviation prior to his assignment with an old friend, Captain Torrey. The situation with Colonel Tigh is pretty much the same. If anything "In Harm's Way" goes into far greater detail in the explanation. Both Tigh and Eddington have the put down/destroyed picture scene with the wife's photo on board the ship. This was prior to Eddington's knowledge of her death on December 7th.Moore says he was inspired by "In Harm's Way". Moore himself says Adama and Tigh are based on Torrey and Eddington. This is not my theory or speculation. I just think this is far more than inspiration (bordering on plagarism since no credit is givin at the end of the mini). If you don't see it that way we can agree to disagree.Moore did change aspects of "In Harm's Way" to fit the Galactica mythos. Obviously this is more a pilot than a stand alone movie. He did change things to facilitate a future series and I speculate may have intentional tried to put the relationships at the end of the mini so they reflected the situation between characters at the end of season 1 of TOS. When I am done putting up my "In Harm's Way" mini comparisons I will try to elaborate on the mythos merger. I had a nice conversation with Dawg on the subject on the mini good forum.Thanks for reading my thoughts on this even if we disagree!

Originally posted by antelope526 The character played by Burgess Meredith (once again forgot his name) in "In Harm's Way" was the basis for the character Boomer in the mini.Both were intel officers. Both were very unsure of themselves on the eve of battle. The conversation each has about going into battle is very similar.The Burgess Meredith character however has no "enemy within" potential. Of couse if you delete the last Boomer scene in the mini, neither did she.Boomer got the job of fixing the Galactica mythos by ensuring the landing on Caprica scene from "Saga of a Star World" was redone in the mini.The Burgess Meredith character died in the final battle but of course we need Boomer and her cylon subplot for any potential series.

This is a waste of bandwidth & time.

TheEnd

[Proximo]

Fair do's, you obviously don't agree. But... am I the only one who sees the irony is wasting your bandwidth to find these choice quotes so you can declare this a waste of bandwidth?

[jewels]

dvo, that was rude, hun. There were a couple of folks interested in discussing this--at least I saw some discussion in another thread. Just avoid the thread if you are not interested.

[dvo47p]

Sorry jewels, yes I did bad.

Originally posted by jewels
dvo, that was rude, hun. There were a couple of folks interested in discussing this--at least I saw some discussion in another thread. Just avoid the thread if you are not interested.

That guy really got on my nerves, he was juxtaposing just about every character in “Harms Way” to that “mini”, RDM only used Tigh?