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Old September 13th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #181
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Interesting question.

Although we have had some test aircraft that had rather stubby wings, I don't think they were "take off" capable. They almost always (as far as I know) had to be deployed from larger aircraft.

I don't think a Viper in its current physical configuration could fly, at least atmospherically. In space, you can have a box and make it travel with maneuvering jets, but in atmo it would be about as flight worthy as an elephant.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 03:51 AM   #182
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Default Re: CG Galactica

I wondered because some planes, e.g. the F-117, look totally unlikely to fly, but do so.
Just curious.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #183
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Hehe ..... good point.

In truth, at least the F-117 still seems to possess the characteristics of an airfoil...albeit, a singular foil (like a flying wing).

A Colonial Viper, at least to me (and yes I am FAR from an aerodynamics expert) just looks a bit too.....blocky, and has too small of a wingspan to begin with.

But, like I said, we did have some test aircraft (IIRC) that had very stubby wingspans....but, they still had airfoil characteristics.

Again, I am far from an aerodynamics expert, so, as with all things, take my opinion with a grain of salt....or just take the whole durned shaker.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #184
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Default Re: CG Galactica

The lockheed f-104 Starfighter flew pretty well with short wing span.

A wind tunnel test would be cool.

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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:04 PM   #185
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Default Re: CG Galactica

I messed around with some different camera angles... Also I threw in some extra Vipers just to get a feel of density.


Last edited by Matador; September 15th, 2012 at 02:15 PM..
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:04 PM   #186
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Basically for the viper to fly properly you'd have to taper the leading and trailing edges of the wings and add a forward Canard. I think were still dealing with an aircraft that would have a ridiculously high landing speed, even more than an F104.
You dont really need to have an airfoil that generates lift to fly, especially at higher speeds, but of course you trade off low speed capabilities and high G turns.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #187
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Added some floor detail and areas around the launch tubes.



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Old September 17th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #188
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Default Re: CG Galactica

That landing bay just keeps looking better and better with each element you add.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #189
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Actually, that's the Hangar / Launch deck that sits bellow the landing deck.

(Landing deck)



(Hangar / Launch deck)


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Old September 18th, 2012, 01:10 AM   #190
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Default Re: CG Galactica

LOL! Sorry, was in a rush....didn't have time to differentiate.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 12:48 PM   #191
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Taking a break from the Hangar deck scene. I wanted to add some detail for a laser turret.
They were never clear on the original show where these guys were, but I'm assuming they were tucked away, nice and protected near the launch tubes to protect the ship and the birds.
So here is what I've started so far...



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Old September 21st, 2012, 07:08 PM   #192
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Default Re: CG Galactica

That is actually looking pretty hefty for a low poly lookin object lol


Teeeeesa...


Nah, is sexy and sleek like any old ship of the fleet.


Regards,

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Old September 21st, 2012, 10:56 PM   #193
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Thanks... I haven't figured out where I'm going with this yet. But that's why it's a work in progress...

Trial and error. Experimenting until I find what works.



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Old September 22nd, 2012, 04:20 AM   #194
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher454 View Post
Basically for the viper to fly properly you'd have to taper the leading and trailing edges of the wings and add a forward Canard. I think were still dealing with an aircraft that would have a ridiculously high landing speed, even more than an F104.
You dont really need to have an airfoil that generates lift to fly, especially at higher speeds, but of course you trade off low speed capabilities and high G turns.
But if the Viper has VTOL capabilities, would it need such a high landing speed?
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Old September 25th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #195
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Interesting points about flyability of the vipers.
I asked the same questions years ago to my next door neighbor who is (retired) an
Aviation engineer. original viper would never get of the ground
the anhedral angle of the wings are too steep, wing area is to small to generate
enough lift. the drag caused by the engines and the nose section would be far to great
for the the lift generated by the wings to over come.

If it could fly, the engines would need to be insanely powerful with a huge airfoil camber
and thickness. power generated by the top engine wouldn't be as effective because
the intake is restricted by the cockpit

take off speed would be in excess of 500kph. Landing and stall speeds just as high.
Without canard wings, as it approaches take off speed would flip over on its back
like an F1 car because of the taper on the nose section. that would push the nose up.

If your interested, when i get home I'll find pictures of the vipers i came up with
to make them flyable.

edit: original vipers center of gravity is about a meter behind the cockpit behind the
root of the leading edge of the wings

Last edited by Andromeda; September 25th, 2012 at 04:38 PM..
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #196
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Just curious...did you ask him about VTOL?


EDIT-- What about Croad's fighter, from TLP? Flatter wings.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 05:21 AM   #197
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Default Re: CG Galactica

I did ask about VTOL :-) when i was looking at streamlining the original shuttle.

Most of what i asked and what was told was all on the harrier.
looking at how the exhaust is vectored by the nozzles moving up and down
and how it was stable on it's roll (z) axis with vectored vanes in the exhaust
nozzles.

Croads fighter looking at it, looks more flyable, It would have the same
problems as the viper. one less engine reduces the drag, however the wings
are a problem. if that wing had a typical airfoil cross section, airflow to the
engines would be disrupted or restricted because the engine is on top of the
wing. Also the engines are slightly recessed into the fuselage and that
would restrict airflow as well.

Have a look at Learjets, engines on the side on pylons away from the
fuselage.

When air passes over a wing the pressure drops as it goes over the top,
air pressure under the wing remains the same. that's what gets the plane off
the ground. Having an engine on top of a wing, where air pressure is lower
and more disturbed means the engines are sucking in a lot less air and
sometimes even cause a flame out.

That's why passenger jets (eg 737) have the engines underneath on pylons jutting forward of the wing.

Croads fighter could be flyable, if the engines where under the wings, nose
tapered, and tail made taller. and wingspan a little larger, Angle of the wings
wouldn't be a problem there about the same as the space shuttle.

Edit: something else i thought of, you could leave the engines on top, put them on little pylons
so that they are above the wing and way from the fuselage, like and A-10 for example.

Last edited by Andromeda; September 26th, 2012 at 05:47 AM..
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Old September 27th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #198
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Default Re: CG Galactica

If you don't think a Viper will fly, think again! This RC viper admittedly is not like like the actual model, but the shape does indeed fly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZcEu...eature=related
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Old September 27th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #199
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Nice find, :-)
basic shape of that looks a little like a cross between ralph mcquarries original
concepts and the version in the new bsg series, with a shallower wing anhedral.
When you look at that model, it's very similar to the concorde.

that video gave flash backs of the cardboard space shuttle gliders in 7th grade
primary school. awesome.

Need to have another look.
cheers
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Old September 28th, 2012, 12:09 AM   #200
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
I did ask about VTOL :-) when i was looking at streamlining the original shuttle.

Most of what i asked and what was told was all on the harrier.
looking at how the exhaust is vectored by the nozzles moving up and down
and how it was stable on it's roll (z) axis with vectored vanes in the exhaust
nozzles.

Croads fighter looking at it, looks more flyable, It would have the same
problems as the viper. one less engine reduces the drag, however the wings
are a problem. if that wing had a typical airfoil cross section, airflow to the
engines would be disrupted or restricted because the engine is on top of the
wing. Also the engines are slightly recessed into the fuselage and that
would restrict airflow as well.

Have a look at Learjets, engines on the side on pylons away from the
fuselage.

When air passes over a wing the pressure drops as it goes over the top,
air pressure under the wing remains the same. that's what gets the plane off
the ground. Having an engine on top of a wing, where air pressure is lower
and more disturbed means the engines are sucking in a lot less air and
sometimes even cause a flame out.

That's why passenger jets (eg 737) have the engines underneath on pylons jutting forward of the wing.

Croads fighter could be flyable, if the engines where under the wings, nose
tapered, and tail made taller. and wingspan a little larger, Angle of the wings
wouldn't be a problem there about the same as the space shuttle.

Edit: something else i thought of, you could leave the engines on top, put them on little pylons
so that they are above the wing and way from the fuselage, like and A-10 for example.

Just to play Iblis' Opposer here....since these machines were primarily intended to fly in space, does atmospheric compatibility mean as much?
What about the Cylon fighters?
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Old October 19th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #201
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Default Re: CG Galactica

I've never looked much into flyabilty of raiders,
it looks possible, more or less a flying wing,
side profile looks very aerodynamic.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 12:38 AM   #202
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Sorry I haven't posted much lately. Had to build me a new computer. So now that I'm sort of back to normal... I decided to rebuild/reimage my colonial Viper.
Here is what I've come up with... "work in Progress"



So say we all!

Last edited by Matador; November 5th, 2012 at 11:29 PM.. Reason: Trying to add clickable thumbnail.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #203
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Was able to get more detailing done. Next will be texturing the skin.






Last edited by Matador; November 5th, 2012 at 11:28 PM..
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Old November 10th, 2012, 12:30 AM   #204
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Here is an update on my new Viper... Just started the texturing process. Very tedious.



Just an FYI... The gold engine covers are temporary... It was sort of an accident that I'm too tired to correct tonight.

cheers all!


Last edited by Matador; November 10th, 2012 at 12:32 AM.. Reason: added some more words.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 12:00 AM   #205
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Adding laser burns and some weathering to the texture.




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Old November 13th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #206
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Gold engine colors looked kinda cool!

What are you using for ref material for the Viper?
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Old November 13th, 2012, 08:24 AM   #207
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Quote:
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What are you using for ref material for the Viper?

I've been using pictures from both the new series and old series. I'm trying to fuse them to create my version of a viper.

I've made a few leaps in my modeling technique... So I'm applying those to create this new version of a viper.


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Old November 13th, 2012, 12:16 PM   #208
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Keep it up. It looks cool and is unique.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #209
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Here is some more work I did today...

started texturing the cockpit area...



This here is a personal touch.



So say we all!
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Old November 14th, 2012, 10:13 PM   #210
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Default Re: CG Galactica

Did the work on the nose and engines.



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