A Realistic Reimagining?

[WarMachine]

Hi All,

Throwing this out here...Apologies if it's been posted previously.

It's Jan 1, 2002, and you just got handed the "Battlestar" project. YOU have to "reinvent" BSG for the 21st Century.

Please outline your concept[s].

Please DO NOT refer to the actual GINO's.....

[Damocles]

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Hi All,

Throwing this out here...Apologies if it's been posted previously.

It's Jan 1, 2002, and you just got handed the "Battlestar" project. YOU have to "reinvent" BSG for the 21st Century.

Please outline your concept[s].

Please DO NOT refer to the actual GINO's.....

How far can you drift from the original before you lose the CBSG feel?

Not much. But here goes

Cast;

Actors I leave open since I will suggest that the forum members suggest their own fill ins.

Principles;

The Adama family;

Commander Adama
Apollo
Athena
Boxey
Muffitt

Starbuck
Cassiopia

Sheba

Supporting cast

Colonel Tigh
Boomer
Jolly
The Doctor

Villains

Baltar
Imperious Leader
Lucifer

Now I submit that is the absolute minimum core cast. You can rotate guest stars and recurrings as needed for the story line.

As for the story lines, I’ve looked at possible story lines and I like most of the fan fiction I read here. Particularly I like Eric Paddon’s efforts in his virtual second season.

My own offering example is a bit more hard science oriented as here;

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...ad.php?t=12689

There are some changes I would make to the RT fleet we are familiar with, that CBSG fans might find a little offputting

1. First of all the Alligator, itself, might look different. There would be a symmetric mass balanced thrust line rocket look to the Alligator that would be offputting to those who are used to the humped look that the Galactica has.
2. The Vipers would be decidedly different. The trefoil wings would still be there as HEAT Radiators and DRADIS antennas but the canopies would not be. A rocket fighter doesn’t need a canopy. It would, instead, have sensor fusion technology that gives the pilot a 360 degree virtual reality presentation of his environment to him or her through his or her helmet. The helmet would thus have a good reason to be shaped like an Egyptian head scarf; as it would have imaging array bands on either side of the pilot’s face so that would project the image that he or she would see in front of his or her eyes.
3. The R/T fleet would have other Colonial military ships besides the Alligator. A close escort that would provide the bodyguard function to the Battlestar was always the missing piece of the fleet puzzle. The Galactica needed her Gunstar, the Tauritius, to provide that feel of a fleet. The rest of the RT fleet needs attention to detail to suggest a caravan of rockets trailing across the stars.
4. The Colonial Movers transport is a good example of a ship that needs no work.
5. The Ore Extractor ship needs a total reworking to make it remotely credible as an asteroid harvester.
6. The Astral Queen and the Celestia need work
7. And you need to standardize on some kind of liberty ship type to make up the standard archetype Colonial tramp freighter.

Things I would look to improve in the civilian fleet.

The Quorum of the Twelve; I would dearly love to see this collection of CBSG WJ politicians become actual genuine people who try to handle their personal, political, and family problems in a series of standalone guest star character episodes that would allow us, the viewers, to see the fleet through Colonial civilian eyes. How does Sire Borimid of Tauron see Adama and the Colonials, while he tries to solve his own “Montague and Capulet” situation with his son associating with the daughter of Sire Itacus, the leader of the not to acceptable Aquarians?

As to the Commons; Pick a family at random and follow their own tribulations in special standalone episodes through the fleet, as the R/T fleet flees the Cylons.

The Cylons; Keep them as an active pursuing threat. They can attack every other episode.

Baltar, as the human face of the Cylon enemy, should be the go-between. The Cylons, themselves, should be led by Lucifer. I don’t think at this late date that we can buy Baltar as the leader of the Cylon pursuit. It should be Baltar, as the Doctor Pretorius, egging on Lucifer, as the Henry Frankenstein, who comes to the realization that this is one monster he should have let go. Baltar should be palpable evil incarnate, to both Cylon and Colonial, like a malevolent Puck to both sides, out to cause chaos and disorder to serve his own temporary and constantly changing for Baltar only advantage. In short I would make Baltar three times as evil, and far more unredeemable than he ever was on CBSG.

As always;

[bionicbob]

okay... this sounds like a fun challenge...

I think instead of "re-imagining" the series, I would "retro-imagine" it. Instead of trying to ground it in a more "realistic" relateable universe like GINO, I would play up and embrace the MYTHICAL elements of the original series. Instead of approaching it as hard science fiction, I would instruct my writers to approach it as Epic Fantasy, in the vien of Tolkien, Jordan or Joespeh Campbell. Do updated versions of classical legend and myths. Really emphasize that the colonists are caught in the middle of a cosmic war between Ulitmate Evil (Count Iblis) and Ulitmate Good (Ships of Light).

Production design wise, there is little I would change... I love the look of the original Galactica and ships. I would change the interior of the Galactica slightly, instead of the battleship interior, I would give it more a mythic design.... have statues of Gods, Kings, Heroes etc built into the walls around door way entries, art/murals/hieroglyphs on the walls, etc.... give the impression this is a highly advanced society that has melded art and science together. I would keep the classic uniforms with slight modifications. Adama, instead of wearing royal blue like the rest of the senior officiers, would be attired in a deep black and silver uniform with a slight higher collar and he would wear his robe with it more, this is to give Adama a stronger "warrior/priest/king" look. As for the Warriors, when they are on Active Duty, I would have them wearing a more stylized flight/battlesuit (high collar that connects to helmet, gloves, maybe slightly armored... maybe not). Esentially it needs to be able to function as both space suit and battle armor, and since the Colonists are thousands of years more advanced than us, the uniform does not need to be big and bulky like our astronauts wear, it is sleek and durable and when they are on Stand-by duty, they would wear their classic jackets over the suit.

Storywise, the series would be serialized, the A plot being resolved within each episode while the B plot would continue in mini-arc while each season would be ONE complete story with a beginning, middle and End (ie. Buffy). The series would open with a three parter (titled "OLYPMUS"-- a look at the "golden age" of Coloniel society mere hours before the Cylon attack, "RANGNOK"-- the fall of the colonies, and finally "EXODUS"--Adama rallying the survivors and attempting to escape). This three parter would introduce the House of Adama, the ruling family of Caprica. Adama is preparing to step down at Commander of Galactica is preparing to name his heir (APOLLO and ATHENA are twin siblings, each a leader of different class of warriors-- The SPARTANS and the VALKRYIE-- )and neither is certain who their father will declare the Galactica heir. Other commanders and battlestars are in attendance to view the important cermony, including the Pegasus. It during the cermony the Cylons attack and our story unfolds...

Anyway, I have a lot more ideas, concering each of the individual characters and their personal arcs and thoughts regards to casting , the overall direction of the 5 season story. If interest is there, I will post more later....

[WarMachine]

Originally Posted by bionicbob

okay... this sounds like a fun challenge...

<SNIP of excellent writeup>

Anyway, I have a lot more ideas, concering each of the individual characters and their personal arcs and thoughts regards to casting , the overall direction of the 5 season story. If interest is there, I will post more later....

SWEET! Although this is pretty general, so you might want to post something like that over in the FanFic area....

[WarMachine]

Originally Posted by Damocles

How far can you drift from the original before you lose the CBSG feel?

Not much. But here goes

<SNIP of cool stuff>

As always;

Damocles,

"...As always" you come up with good stuff....I especially like the concept of a single "common" family for "B"-stories.

If I have any quibbles, it's over changing the ship designs too much - a lot of BSG is "look-n-feel", and the ships were a large part of that

[WarMachine]

Originally Posted by bionicbob

".....Adama is preparing to step down at Commander of Galactica is preparing to name his heir (APOLLO and ATHENA are twin siblings, each a leader of different class of warriors-- The SPARTANS and the VALKRYIE-- )and neither is certain who their father will declare the Galactica heir. Other commanders and battlestars are in attendance to view the important cermony, including the Pegasus. It during the cermony the Cylons attack and our story unfolds...

Just reread this: Niiiiice -- potential sibling rivalries at the outset. Do I detect 'King Lear' lurking nearby?

[bionicbob]

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Just reread this: Niiiiice -- potential sibling rivalries at the outset. Do I detect 'King Lear' lurking nearby?

Thanks for the nice words.

I suppose a bit of King Lear, some Cain and Abel too.... Part of the backstory would establish Adama and Baltar are kinsmen (cousins... maybe brothers, i keep changing my mind on this point) who were rivals as young men. Baltar views Adama with absolute hatred, believing Adama has everything he should have gotten.

Adama sees parallels between his relationship with Baltar and how his twin children Apollo and Athena compete with each other. Athena is the more aggressive, hot tempered warrior, while Apollo is more introspective and cautious. Both are Heroes in the classic mold but with very different approaches.

Maybe I should do as you suggested and outline this all more thoroughly in the FanFic area, it would probably be a more apropriate thread.... i dunno, think anyone would actually be interested???

[Damocles]

Originally Posted by bionicbob

Thanks for the nice words.

I suppose a bit of King Lear, some Cain and Abel too.... Part of the backstory would establish Adama and Baltar are kinsmen (cousins... maybe brothers, i keep changing my mind on this point) who were rivals as young men. Baltar views Adama with absolute hatred, believing Adama has everything he should have gotten.

Adama sees parallels between his relationship with Baltar and how his twin children Apollo and Athena compete with each other. Athena is the more aggressive, hot tempered warrior, while Apollo is more introspective and cautious. Both are Heroes in the classic mold but with very different approaches.

Maybe I should do as you suggested and outline this all more thoroughly in the FanFic area, it would probably be a more apropriate thread.... i dunno, think anyone would actually be interested???

Try something in the vein of Sophocles?

As always;

[WarMachine]

Main Characters:

Commander Adama
Apollo
Athena
Boxey
Starbuck
Boomer
Cassiopia
Sheba
Colonel Tigh


Supporting cast:

Jolly
Greenbean
Doctor Wilker
Doctor Salik
Muffitt
The Council of the Twelve
The Civilians of the RTF


Villains:

Baltar
Imperious Leader
Lucifer
Anonymous Cylon Centurions (Old-style)
A new "Assault"-model Centurion

Special Guests (Season 1 only):

Serina
Commander Cain
Colonel Tolan


For the first season, I would mostly use the original scripts, although:

*"Magnificent Warriors" becomes a raid on a remote supply depot - complicated by a crashed ship with c.200 passengers, carrying a load of "Colonial Heritage" stuff: artwork, paintings, etc. Further complication: the Colonial artifacts were stolen by a group of thieves - who are still on the loose.

*The planet in "The Young Lords" is a religious retreat, populated by fanatical devoteè's of the Colonial's ancient war gods. They will assist Starbuck in escaping back to the RTF, but will refuse to let him take their children with him, so that they can continue the war against the Cylons "...until Adama returns."

*"Greetings From Earth" is a red herring: Michael and Sarah really are terrorists, sort of "Bonnie and Clyde Go To Space"; the children, unfortunately, think it's all just a game. Also unfortunately, the truth is not learned until the Enforcers are already on the Prison Barge.

*"Experiment In Terra" would be rewritten to be a little more realistic - John's people were on the verge of over-use in the original, and shouldn't be included as mere fluff; change it to a Western delegation. Adama has a powerful conflict, as the Terrans refuse to evacuate in the face of the Cylon threat, but also refuse to unify, even after the Gal stops the missile exchange. The ep closes with Adama admitting that he feels terrible about his choice - giving Colonial tech info to both sides, in the hope that one of them will be able to survive long enough to flee the Cylons.

**Baltar: Balter is in desperate need of a raison-d'-tour. Baltar becomes the High Priest of a radical offshoot of a relatively-benign sect that originally simply honored the dead. His sect - it literally is his - is based on a radical interpretation of an obscure tract in the Colonial 'Book of the Dead': they now believe that the Human race must be "purified by fire", and that the "unworthy" (meaning, about 90% of the known Human population) needs to die. Baltar's mistake was that, as Imperious Leader so kindly points out, he completely missed the entire point of the Cylon's war on Humanity: they want ALL Humans D-E-A-D--DEAD. Period.....This both explains Baltars compatriots sabotaging Colonial defenses, and his willingness to work with the Cylons later - he is completely schitzophrenic by then, swinging back and forth like a pendulum.


Production

1. If I am the Producer, my FIRST step is to hire Michael J. Straczinski[sp?] as the executive producer - on the condition that he brings in his B5 SFX team. MJS will oversee all scripts (see #5).

2. Hire Stu Phillips - he's worth whatever he asks for.

3. REGULARIZE THE TECHNOLOGY - it makes absolutely ZERO difference "what" the technology is, so long as it is consistant within the show.

4. Find an "Okuda". That's one of the few things I like about Berma-Trek - Michael and Denise Okuda. Even though Berma-Trek blithely ignores them at nearly every turn, they are internally consistant, and prolific. Find an uber-geek (note that that is NOT used pejoratively), hand him the notes from #3, have him compile/write the bible/backstory and MAKE all writers conform to that, unless they get approval otherwise.

5. Hire the VS2 crew to write the scripts. I doubt they'd have any issues being overseen by MJS, plus, they already have a consistant 2nd Season more than half done.

6. Make SURE to have a full suite of merchandise ready to go: Paper-n-Pencil RPG, arcade game[s], online MMORPG's, novelizations for a minimum of two seasons in outline form, at least (and preferably three to five ready for the publisher at air-time), Stickers, patches, CCG, boardgame[s], wallpapes, mouse-pads, "java" mugs, clothing...the lot.

[WarMachine]

One more thing: "Greetings", "Baltar's Escape", and "Experiment" should be chronologically right on top of one another; basically, this arc should probably be a three-parter.

Even though Adama wants to free the Enforcers as soon as he learns the truth about Michael and Sarah, he is cut off by the Council, who are trying to flex their "muscles" just then. The Enforcers have absolutely no reason to behave any differently than they do in the original, and should escape in pretty much the same way.

[Dayton3]

Me? I said it last year when I was here.

Start the series one year (yahren) before the destruction of the colonies.

Begin the series with a three episode arc covering the destruction of the 5th fleet at Molocay and the unknown at that time escape by the Pegasus. Have major reason for the fleets destruction be treachery by Baltar (perhaps he fails to send fuel to the fleet at a critical time in the campaign) that is known only to Cain and a few of his aides.

This explains Cains hatred of Baltar two years later in Living Legend even though he has no reason to be familiar with the man.

Arc ends with Galactica and other battlestars leading a massive attack in retaliation for the 5th fleets demise

Later in the first season, we see Baltar finalizing his plans to betray humanity and get some insights into his reasons.

Finally toward the end of the season, we see Baltar present the Cylons "peace" proposal and see the effect this has on the quorum of the twelve. With some councilman supporting it and some opposing it.

We see the reason that the Colonial Fleet allows its entire force of Battlestars to be led into an ambush.

My idea is to ironically have this to be at least in part Adamas fault.

The quorum wants to send a single battlestar to meet with the Cylons. But Adama suggests sending the entire battlestar fleet as a show of strength and unity while the fleets support ships return to the colonies.

Baltar actually supports Adamas proposal. Claiming that if by some remote chance it is a trap, then the entire Battlestar fleet is more likely to survive.

This all accounts for alot of Adamas "survivors guilt" later in the series.

[Norsehound]

Were I handed the reins to remake Galactica....

Wow.

-------------
1. Emissaries


It is five years after the end of hostilities in the 1000 yahren war. For all intents and purposes, things have cooled between the Cylons and humanity, though nobody's sure what's going on. However, through Count Baltar and the Battlestar Valkyrie, the Cylons wish to negotiate a peace. Baltar is representative while his Battlestar remains with the cylons in good faith.

The Battlestars- all remaining five, are summoned for the peace ceramony at Cimtar, with escort. Among them is the Battlestar Galactica, missing her sistership the Pegasus since it's loss at Molecay. Adama is unsure of the peace, beliving it obviously to be a trap. Tigh inquires how such a thing could happen, and Adama relates the story of the colonies: In the end of the war humankind became too decadent. Critisim of the long war with the cylons, plus changing trends in humankind, has made the war effort more or less half-hearted. people want to beleive peace, even if they are blind to the reasoning. It's this decadence that has left the colonies open to a potential trap from and enemy that is historicly brutal and unrelenting.

Apollo and his brother Zak are flying vanguard, along with a small squadron of Vipers, ahead of the fleet. Apollo and Zak clash again about religion... Apollo doesn't seem to follow the whole deal with the Lords of Kobol and light ships, but for some odd reason the hotshot brother of his is a firm beleiver in God and the Lords of Kobol. He just isn't as solemn as his father, which drives Apollo crazy. The vanguard detects a tanker on the far side of Cimtar and go to investigate.

While Adama prepares himself to leave for the massive Battlestar Atlantia, Athena maintains an icy presence on the bridge. When lieutennant Starbuck reports in, it is with machine-like qualities that she scolds him for being where he shouldn't" In the barracks instead of on patrol with her brother. When Starbuck explains that Zak wanted to go for some strange reason Athena just chides him further and signs him off. In a cut, Starbuck says that Athena is as icy as ever.

Aboard the Atlantica, Adma tries to put up a good face in front of the council. He is approached by President Adar, who is optimistic about a possible peace (probably because he wants to win the upcoming elections). Adama explains that the Cylons are as alien to us as the concept of a complete, empty vaccum of space to air-breathers. Baltar approaches, saying that we were able to understand space, and thus can understand the Cylons. Adama, Adar, and Baltar engadge in a discussion match, ending with Adama's lack of enthusiasm to remain. He gets a call to return to the Galactica and takes the oppertunity to do so.

The vanguard investigates the empty Tankers, and Zak has a funny feeling. Apollo decides to test the funny feeling by flying in with sensors full blast- discovering a full base ship hovering on the far side of Cimtar. The vanguard are ambushed, but as always the Colonials have superior firepower over superior numbers. However, Apollo decides to pull a fighting retreat and manages to delay the attacking force by blowing up one of the cylon tankers (Cylon fighters are as prone to destruction as TIE fighters, and are not as intelligent). Apollo sends a HIGHDEF emergency warning to alarm the fleet... unfortunately this also alerts the Cylons to the vanguard's presence. Clouds of Cylon fighters go after the Viper Vanguard.

Adama returns to the bridge to be notified of the situation. The HIGHDEF is comming up on ORACLE (the name given to the system which correltates all tactical/navigational/science data), from Apollo's ship. They can only detect the signal, not any vistransmissions. Adama orders tigh to discreetly make the vipers ready for battle and all gunnery crews to their stations. He also notifes the Galactican vanguard for possible action.

Apollo's flight enters Sensors range, and ORACLE detects the massive swarm of cylon fighters behind them- as well as three baseships. Tigh notes that the Cylons never advanced this many numbers before, and Adama beleives it to be an ambush. He is interrupted by Adar, who asks what the fuss is about ("Why have your ships drawn swords, Adama?"). Adama points to the massive formation and how they are not moving in any organized pattern, as well as the HIGHDEF. Baltar chimes in, insulting the Adamas by saying that it was likely an accidental trigger of the one-shot alarm system at the sight of so many Cylon ships. Nevertheless, Adama will not stand down. Adar cites Adama as a jumpy warhawk, but this doesn't stop the Battlestars Ballerophon and Solaria from also going to battlestations.

When the Vipers come into range Apollo announces his story. Cylon fighters enmasse on the approach, with three fighters down. Adama jumps to the gun and sounds the battle alert. he also orders the Galactica to break from Parade formation and the screen to form combat formation. Adar claims this as madness, saying that the Cylons may very well fire upon them for breakting trust. Adama says he won't deny the word of his Son, A warrior, who is bound by the Hero's Code, which states that "thou shall not bear false witness". Adama has no time for Adar's belittlement of the "hawkish militancy of the Warriors," and cuts Adar off.

The Cylons arrive and break like a wave across the Battlestar precession. The Atlantica is crippled almost immediately, her hull unsheileded and she herself leading the precession. The Galactica, Solaria, and Ballerophon and thier vanguards manage to evade serious injury by having their shields up and weapons beared. Adama orders the launch of his Vipers, and broadcasts on ORACLE that, with the Atlantica down, Galactica will assume fleet command. The other Battlestars comply, giving rise to the Battle of Cimtar.

[Norsehound]

--------------
2. Descent

On the colonies all is peaceful. Smaller warships are on parade formation for what is said to be the best day in Colonial history. The armistace is to be celebrated for 1000 yahrens to come. The old and the young (especially the young), make their celebration well known, as wild parties are a frequent thing (even on the conservative Caprica).

On Caprica's Republic Forum, Siress Illa is being interviewed by Persephone. Illa stands by the views of her husband, that the wild parties and celebrations on Caprica are all too soon. The Decadence of Caprica is also disturbing. Persephone prods Illa on her family's adherence to the Kobellion Amaphi (the Sacred text of the colonies), to which Illa says it's a code of morals that society has abandoned, and will pay for it.

Suddenly warships appear over the colonies. The parade ships, intercepting music on a broadcast channel from the Cylons, think it's some kind of Cylonian peace music. The first of the Cylon baseships over Caprica stops within the fleet and receives it's first vocal transmission ever from the Cylons:

Laughter.

Raiders flood out of the baseship and elliminate the colonial defenses within minutes, before descending to the surface below like a flock of carrion birds. The populace below is generally unaware until the Cylon attack force flies over the city, weapons ablaze as they straife the crowd. When Persophone asks why they aren't using Nova weapons (Nuclear weapons), Illa asks Perseophone if she's forgotten that the Cylons preserve culture, but not the inhabitants. They also take particular joy in killing what they see as vermin of the universe. The Forum is hit.

On the Galactica, Tigh observes the Base ships seem to be just...watching. Adama wonders what it could possibly be for, and dismisses Tigh's suggestion that they fear the Ballerophon (Which has a pair of Pulsar cannons on it's nose- able to take out Baseships in one strike). There are too many fighters for three base ships...

Athena notes that a HIGHDEF warning origionates from Caprica. Within seconds, all 12 of the colonies have fired up HIGHDEF warnings. In the Colonial doctrine, this means every Battlestar MUST return to it's colony for defense. Realizing what has happened, Adama orders the Galactica to return to Caprica. As the Battlestar turns to go, Adar makes one final transmission from the Atlantica: He was blinded by "the fruits of peace... so blind..."

The Atlantica is destroyed.

Rather than risk loosing his entire escort screen, Adama orders an emergency jump. Tigh says this will alienate their fighters, but Adama has no choice. The Galactica and escort jump, and upon arrival at Caprica they fire off a HIGHDEFF warning.

This causes the orbiting Base Star to investigate, where it's quickly destroyed by the Galactica and escorts. Tigh notes that without their fighters, they cannot persue the cylons into the atmopshere. Apollo, however, has his squadron still aboard, and volunteers. Adama, reluctant, realizes some hopes is better than none and dispatches his Sons. Zak leaves quoting a passage from the Amaphi, which makes Adama stop and think. Athena, quieted, stars broadcasting transmission feed she's getting live from the colonies. The entire bridge watches the VERY graphic sequence of Cylons killing human beings from the air. Effectively, Tigh adds dryly, since everyone was clustered together in parties and 'establishments.'

At Cimtar, Starbuck and Boomer aren't happy about being left behind. Solaris has taken place of command and is the better of the two Battlestars in flying condition. The Triton explodes. When the Solaria orders all available fighters to martial onboard, Starbuck challneges the commander saying "Where's our screen?"

Boomer, a native Libran, points out his resident Battlestar, the Ballerophon. It is charging the three base ships by herself. Aflame, the renowned war veteran of the 100 Yahren war engadges the first base ship- destroying it outright with both barrels. This makes the raders abandon Solaria and harry the Ballerophon. Boomer has to stop and watch as his Battlestar is dying.

Starbuck has to urge his friend aboard, and he and Boomer are the last two vipers to board the overcrowded hangers of the Solaria. The Ballerophon dies taking out Base ship no. 2 while the Solaria jumps out.

[Norsehound]

-------------------------
3. Flames

Apollo and his vanguard do their best to elliminate the Cylon raiders over the city. Even so, they're too late to prevent wholsale destruction. They manage to clear the airspace over Caprica city, but ORACLE shows the swarm of Cylon craft have broken over the planet and are running over it like a disease. Zak quotes a passage from the Amaphi again and Apollo tells him to shut up.

Zak, quietly, sees the Forum and says that's where their mother was supposed to be during the attack. Apollo hails the Fourm and gets no response, and decides to go down. Zak goes with him and the two sons touch down on the surface.

In orbit, Tigh notes that none of the colonies appear to have survived the attack. Only Sagitaria is responding due to their sophisticated defense system. They are holding off the Cylon attack but just barely- and ORACLE seems to predict the comming of dreaded Cylon Mobiles- massive ships that only existed hypotheticly. One is advancing towards Sagitaria. Suddenly the Solaris appears, disgorging fighters from the battle of Cimtar. The Solaria hails Galactica, Commander Ajax saying that he is giving galactica the best chance for survival. Solaria is damaged and cannot do much more, but they with thier colony can try to hold the line and cause the Cylons some damage before they come to Caprica. The Solaria jumps with her squadrons and escorts for thier home colony to do what they could.

Starbuck has only to look down and see Caprica aflame to know why the Galactica came here. When he askes how Adama knew, Boomer says Adama must have some mythical foresight into future events. The Vipers, after refueling, depart squadron by squadron for the planet's surface. Just in time too, as the Cylons are making their reverse wave to hit Caprica, hard.

On the surface Apollo and Zak find thier way to the rubble and eventually to where their mother was being interviewed. All Apollo could find was Persephone- in shock and tears over what happened. Apollo consoles her, trying to do the best he can, and it's Zak who sees the limp arm of thier dead mother. He turns away, too upset for words, and collapses on his knees. Apollo looks past his brother to see her, and also begins to cry.

Minutes later Starbuck's squadron arrives in the atmopshere and hooks up with the rest. When he is told Apollo is on the surface, the first group of Raiders arrive. Starbuck immediately gets into action against them, and ORACLE informs him of more raiding parties on the way. Worse, another baseship has materialized on the far side of Caprica and is launching landing barges, likey carrying Cylon death squads. Starbuck knows they have to stop them.

Adama makes orders for the Galactica to engadge the new Base star as outer-system reinforcements arrive. Tigh notifies Adama of a live broadcast from the Solaria, which shows the Battlestar and Sagitarrian defenses taking on five Base ships, and a Mobile. The largest, technologically advanced Battlestar manages to obliterate one baseship, hulk two more, and virtually disintigrate the entire Cylon fighter force before it's hit by the Mobile. Both Battlestar and Mobile exchange fire and the Solaris manages to make deep hits on the Mobile. Ultimately though, the Mobile uses it's planet-killing weapon on the Solaria and extinguishes the battlestar in one blast. ORACLE transmissions show the Mobile's weapon was heavily damaged and the Cylon monster was pulling back, abandoning Sagitarria for deep space. ORACLE reveals that the Cylons are also pulling back from the colonies- but only the base ships. Fighters and landing barges are still on Caprica and other worlds, and have to be eliminated. Athena breaks out in tears- drawing Adama's attention. Athena hasn't cried since she was 13. Athena informs her father that Apollo has discovered their mother dead.

-----------------------------
4. Pale

Apollo and Zak, both handling a shocked Perseophone, are trying to get a handle on the situation and are approached by shell-shocked civilians and security officers. They want to know where the military was when they were needed. Apollo says they were at the ceramony, and one of the civilians accuses the warriors of being neglegent in their duties to protect them. Zak, unaware that Persephone is beside him, quotes from one of her earlier articles saying how the so-called hawkish military had to be downscaled and reduced. Bitterly he points out the colonies brought it on themselves. Perseophone breaks out in tears again.

Tigh says they might be safe for now, fighters are taking on the cylon swarms and death squads, and there are faint signals from the other colonies. Adama asks how many Battlestars are left, and Tigh reports "None. We're the only Battlestar remaining." Adama has to let this sink in before he is able to respond. He orders tigh to "make room," and that he's going down to the planet. Tigh says adama's place is on the bridge and in command, but Adama says it would be better to command the people if he were among them and not removed on the bridge. He shuttles down with the medivacs that are headed to the planet.

The cylon wave hits Caprica city and Apollo orders Zak to get Perseophone and as many civilians as possible to shelter. Apollo won't hear Zak's protests and takes off in his viper. Zak, taking Perseophone on his arm, heards the civilians to one of the few remaining bomb shelters (now a museium), in Caprica city (A leftover from the Colonial wars). Persephone asks Zak's name, and when he says it she starts crying again.

Starbuck says Apollo is late to the party and has to pay for the tab when they get back to galactica. His spirit lightened, Apollo's technique sharpens and the warriors fight to clear the skies over Caprica city. They are joined by the Caprican airforce, which has come from the sunken islands in one of Caprica's seas. They drive off the invaders, allowing the medivacs to land. Adama emerges and goes to the froum, where he is joined by his sons, to see over the body of thier mother.

Returning to the Civilans with his sons carrying the covered body of their mother, Adama is adressed by the shell-shocked civilians. They are silent, and he begins to speak of his revelation he made on the Galactica. He quotes from the Kobellian Book, saying that this was the apocalypse predicted in ancient times. The glutton of humanity had made them weak and allowed the Cylons to attack. They will keep comming, there is no stopping them as he points out the Cylons rivaled the birds in Caprica's sky.

But what to do? We must leave, Adama says, as it was foretold. Only one salvation is open to them now in a universe that is out to exterminate their kind: Earth. It is a vauge Paradise somewhere beyond the heavens.

Somebody shouts to Adama that they don't beleive in Earth, and that the Kobellian book was just a myth and a lie concocted in the early days of the Colonies.

"Is that so?" Adama says, then quotes the passage of the beginning of the Armageddon and explains his meaning. When the crowd is silent, he asks, "Does anyone have a better option to offer?"

When nobody does, he outlines his plan. The Galactica, as all Battlestars, was more than capable of harboring a fraction of a colonial civilization should an exodus be neccisary. But this is far larger than the Galactica's designers ever intended, and thus the need to conscript every surviving ship is necissary. They do not have much time, as the Cylons are very thurough in their workings.

Over the span of six days, ships marshal to Caprica. Among them are warships from the various colonies, pooling the number of fighters and ordinacne among the force of warriors. With them are food and supply ships, vessels resurrected from museuims and scrap yards when their usefulness was expended. Some of them are utility ships and military auxilury vessels that were retired when the Battlestars came. Others are liners, passanger craft, freighters and liners. All of them are consripted, and on the fourth day every one of them that arrived to that date have their FTL drives refitted by military technicians. They have more than enough parts.

Seven days are needed to martial the fleet. At the end of the Seventh, Adama recites a line from the book of Kobol and declares Exodus.

With this, the Fleet departs the colonies and launches into the abyss, never to return.

----------------------------
This is the end of what I saw would be a miniseries, or the beginning of a full series.

[Norsehound]

NOTES/POINTS

-Battlestar Galactica is to be an epic story of Biblical proportions. Literature to inspire the story, I thought, would be (noteably), the Bible and Dante's 'The Divine Comedy'

-Space is an unfriendly place. There are no allies for the Colonials, ever. They get their sobering message when they try landing on Carillon, but the best they do is get the Cylon Mobile destroyed.

-Adama is religious. Apollo is a realist. Athena is cold and distanced. Zak is a hotshot rebelious pilot, but with a VERY strong sense of religion. Zak's sense of religion irks his brother.

-Zak doesn't die in the beginning, but his death will be unexpected and sudden. (also, Pointless?)

-Baltar survives his ordeal with the Cylons... and survives only because the IL series Lucifer has taken an interest in him. Lucifer wants to study Baltar to find out the only redeeming qualities of mankind: Hatred, lust, greed... all the things outlines on Moore's show. He's fascinated by the darker side of mankind and wants Baltar to bring it out.

-The other battlestar to survive the colonial slaughter is the valkyrie, but it is in Cylon hands. What happens to the crew and Baltar remains hidden.

-Battlestars are monuments to human acheivement. The are ten times the size of TNS's Galactica, and are fully functional nations in space. There is one per colony, constructed by that colony, do essentially serve as that colony's capital in space. The first was the Columbia.

-Galactica and Pegasus were completed within moments of one another, and it was prophecised that these 'bothers and arms' would have many battles together.

-Cain survives and returns with the Pegasus from the failed battle of Molecay, and has with him the last remnants of the 5th fleet. Sheeba, his daughter, is among them. Cain is married to Helena, who survives in the fleet. Cain finds he cannot recognize his wife any loner, as she's gone cold and course when learning that Cain and her daughter had died at MOlecay. She is not joyful at his return.

-When Sheba is wounded, Helena demands to see her daughter. Apollo doesn't let her, despite her protests. When she finds Sheba afterward (And after Cain dissapeared), Sheba says that her mother died with the colonies. Helena thus comitts suicide, making Sheba depressed.

-The Cylons are vaugely Monotheistic, but they do not worship the same god the colonials do. They have a beleive in perfection, seeing circles as the answer of the universe and the ultimate symbol of completness. To this end, many of their ships and geometry are round.

-The IL series of cylon are the closest match to TNS's agents, but they are all vain. They assume the shape of what they think is perfection- 'walking' on thousands of legs that descend as a sheet before them. The Imperius leader is heard but never seen.

-The Cylons beleive in universal perfection and conforming. They beleive that the natural order of things is disrupted by invidiual thoughts and passions. They are extreme fundamentalists of their religion, and hate the decadence the colonials with the utmost intensity. It is unforgiveable, so they persue the colonials with the intent to stamp them out.

-Iblis will come to harass the fleet as he did in TOS, except he's much more sinister and convincing. Apollo's faith grows here, and he is protected by Iblis with the memory of his brother's faith in religion. After driving off Iblis himself, Apollo's beleif in Kobellian myth increases.

-The Quarum is headed by a very outspoken woman who's determined to destroy Adama and the military hold. She leads nearly a third of the populace, blaming the warriors for their incompitence and inciting the Cylon retribution. She also beleives that peace can be found with the Cylons, and clashes with Adama to this end. Of course she doesn't realize the true nature of the Cylons, and acts of out ignorance and stupidity.

-The premise is the Colonials are immersed in a hostile universe, they have no time to bicker amongs themselves. This is only made harder when the president puts pressure on them to make peace with a force that wants to exterminate them.

-If it had to be a miniseries or something compact, the series would run for one season. They would go though adventures much like Dante did in the Divine comedy...

-In Hand of God, it might be the Valkyrie the Galactica fights at the end, under cylon control, with hybrids that seek to better the colonies by siding with their enemies. (???)

-If this was a miniseries, again, the story would end as the Galactica reaches earth. They enter the solar system out of hyperspace, the entire fleet....and it ends. We don't see anything other than the emergence of the Galactica into the solar system. This establishes that the Colonials made it to earth, but we don't know what earth is like exactly.

-The series will be laced with mythology. Biblical, mythological, and even fictional sources will be plumbed for thier uses. Not 'homages', but something akin to 'that's familiar...', in the Bible, Dante, and other far-reaching works of Biblical proportions.

[Dayton3]

^THAT is one great idea!!.

I'd like to incorporate elements of it into my story too.

I especially like the idea of a "Cylonized" Battlestar out there.

I assume you would go back to the idea (as I would) of the Cylons as alien cyborgs rather than simply robots?

I would stick with a THOUSAND yahren war though instead of just a HUNDRED yahren war.

Remember, in the BG universe apparently humans live to be 200 yahrens.

[Norsehound]

This idea of a Cylonized battlestar was not the first I've imagined.

Origionally I had a small story idea of three battlestars that escaped the cylon attack on their shipyard. The first was the Propella, a modern Battlestar which managed to escape almost intact. The second was the Pulsar, an advanced warship that also managed to escape under fire.

The last was the Anubis, which had failed to be scuttled, and was reclaimed and finished by an IL series Cylon. It has been persuing the Pulsar ever since.

In my reimaginement above, the Cylons are all robotic. They replaced the origional cylons when they wiped them out millenia ago- the only part of the origional cylons left is imbued in a twisted way in the IL series. it's only the IL series that can comprehend such things as higher level thought, art, phillosophy, and beauty. It is why only an IL series like lucifer could appreciate the evil of mankind... and take an interest in it.

Yes, I meant 1000. I wasn't sure how long it would be, and 100 yahren is pretty long.

[ray243]

The main question is not totally how you want to shape it. You have to consider certain aspects of the modern day culture, like how gritty is the show going to get.

Try looking at James Bond or Batman begins, which are generally more gritty and realistic than previous movies. Also, how are you going to shape the Colonial culture? A very modern day like, with people wearing suits or like the TOS, robes?

Also, how is the colonial forces going to be like? A more realistic protray of military force, and a very serious military tone with little room for technobabble? Or the classic space warrior style that is popular in the 70s.

How exactly are you going to ensure the new galactica will not be a failure, and be highly recevied by critcs and generally audiences?

[Norsehound]

I'll see if I can answer your questions as best as I can... (at least for my version)

The 12 colonies are, obviously, set in an entirely different solar system than the one we're in. English would have to be the language spoken, but it would necissarily be for the benefit of the audience. Words and terminoloy from the origional series would remain, for more than reason (A caprican year is not exactly a 1:1 match for Earth's. The colonial 'Yahren' then is perhaps the 'standard' accepted scale of time through the colonies, probably by a mean measure of it's members). Likewise, the explainatives and language from TOS would return and perhaps be expanded. The target audience would be TOS fans and newcomers interested in general Science fiction.

Since the idea is to tie in with ancient cultures, Robes would be appropreate instead of suits. They wouldn't exactly be greek togas, but they would draw their inspiration from ancient art, just as the origional series would.

The way I envisioned it, colonial society is divied into roughly three 'classes'- The Warriors, the Civilians, and the Administrators. Warriors were obviously those delegated to the task of making war... given the 1000 yahren war this is more or less a staple in Colonial society, but it also includes the heavy industrial workforce, which is usually tasked for base and warship construction (but can also be loaned to industries).

The Administrative class is just that- administrators. They are the elite of socity, the nobles, the buisnessmen, the councilmen... et. all. On some colonial worlds members are inherited into this class, but on Caprica its a little harder to descern the administrators from the Civilians.

Civilians are civilians, having no major decision of contientnal or planetary govenment. The highest a civilian could be considered is mayor of his or her city, but this definition is vairable in the colonies.

The approach to the military is that they are more akin to spartans of old or the Samurai. They are bound by a Warrior's creed of virtues that have served the warriors for the thousands of yahrens they have been fighting. Usually warriors are brought up in their disceplined surroundings at a young age.. the older a civilian is the harder it is to get into the warrior class. Tech-wise, direct-energy weapons (particle cannons, lasers) are the primary weapon-of-choice in the colonies.

Colonial society before the attack is lax and laid back... akin perhaps to modern-day society had not 9-11 happened. There is a lot of sediment against the military for what they see as an unessisary war... five years without serious Cylon attacks has made the population feel confident that at last the war is over. Also, because of the efficiency of the warriors, the war itself never came to Caprica. The Civilan populace, under this umbrella of safety, have let their guard down and allowed themselves to become capricus and indulgent.

When the Cylons attack and burn away pretty much most of the colonies, the civilian population is in shock, the Administrators are divided, and the Warriors take it on themselves to protect what's left of humanity to make up for thier lack of vigilance. But even after the colonies were destroyed, there are some ignorant voices among the population that still see the warrior class as the biggest problem in colonial society and fight them even during the retreat from the stars. It'll be a constant headhace for Adama as he struggles to combat this dissention in the fleet, the Cylon persuit, and whatever evils show up.

I cannot really describe how I can see the series being written, but I can explain it as best as I can. The colonials are the last light of humanity in the darkness of space, looking for the other light of the 13th tribe. The convection between pressures inside the fleet and pressures from the outside leave most of the civilans following Adama because they have no other choice. They follow Adama because he knows what he's doing, and he, the galactica, and the warriors are pretty much the only things keeping humanity together and protected under one shield.

When it comes to the tone of the series... I want it to come across as an epic. A story of biblical proportions. Seasons would have to be illustrated in a series of arcs, with one main arc supported by many smaller arcs. Continuity and consistancy would have to be paramount- to the point of suffering from the Firefly problem (being aired out of synch would loose viewers).

This is all loose thinking at 4am, so I hope it's coherent.

[martok2112]

I've been working on my own "reimagining" and it can be found in the Colonial Library (Martok).


Premise:
http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...ad.php?t=12849


Story:
http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...ad.php?t=13224

Comments:
http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...ad.php?t=13225


Give it a looksee if you gets the chance.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[Damocles]

Originally Posted by Norsehound

I'll see if I can answer your questions as best as I can... (at least for my version)

The 12 colonies are, obviously, set in an entirely different solar system than the one we're in. English would have to be the language spoken, but it would necissarily be for the benefit of the audience. Words and terminoloy from the origional series would remain, for more than reason (A caprican year is not exactly a 1:1 match for Earth's. The colonial 'Yahren' then is perhaps the 'standard' accepted scale of time through the colonies, probably by a mean measure of it's members). Likewise, the explainatives and language from TOS would return and perhaps be expanded. The target audience would be TOS fans and newcomers interested in general Science fiction.

Since the idea is to tie in with ancient cultures, Robes would be appropreate instead of suits. They wouldn't exactly be greek togas, but they would draw their inspiration from ancient art, just as the origional series would.

The way I envisioned it, colonial society is divied into roughly three 'classes'- The Warriors, the Civilians, and the Administrators. Warriors were obviously those delegated to the task of making war... given the 1000 yahren war this is more or less a staple in Colonial society, but it also includes the heavy industrial workforce, which is usually tasked for base and warship construction (but can also be loaned to industries).

The Administrative class is just that- administrators. They are the elite of socity, the nobles, the buisnessmen, the councilmen... et. all. On some colonial worlds members are inherited into this class, but on Caprica its a little harder to descern the administrators from the Civilians.

Civilians are civilians, having no major decision of contientnal or planetary govenment. The highest a civilian could be considered is mayor of his or her city, but this definition is vairable in the colonies.

The approach to the military is that they are more akin to spartans of old or the Samurai. They are bound by a Warrior's creed of virtues that have served the warriors for the thousands of yahrens they have been fighting. Usually warriors are brought up in their disceplined surroundings at a young age.. the older a civilian is the harder it is to get into the warrior class. Tech-wise, direct-energy weapons (particle cannons, lasers) are the primary weapon-of-choice in the colonies.

Colonial society before the attack is lax and laid back... akin perhaps to modern-day society had not 9-11 happened. There is a lot of sediment against the military for what they see as an unessisary war... five years without serious Cylon attacks has made the population feel confident that at last the war is over. Also, because of the efficiency of the warriors, the war itself never came to Caprica. The Civilan populace, under this umbrella of safety, have let their guard down and allowed themselves to become capricus and indulgent.

When the Cylons attack and burn away pretty much most of the colonies, the civilian population is in shock, the Administrators are divided, and the Warriors take it on themselves to protect what's left of humanity to make up for thier lack of vigilance. But even after the colonies were destroyed, there are some ignorant voices among the population that still see the warrior class as the biggest problem in colonial society and fight them even during the retreat from the stars. It'll be a constant headhace for Adama as he struggles to combat this dissention in the fleet, the Cylon persuit, and whatever evils show up.

I cannot really describe how I can see the series being written, but I can explain it as best as I can. The colonials are the last light of humanity in the darkness of space, looking for the other light of the 13th tribe. The convection between pressures inside the fleet and pressures from the outside leave most of the civilans following Adama because they have no other choice. They follow Adama because he knows what he's doing, and he, the galactica, and the warriors are pretty much the only things keeping humanity together and protected under one shield.

When it comes to the tone of the series... I want it to come across as an epic. A story of biblical proportions. Seasons would have to be illustrated in a series of arcs, with one main arc supported by many smaller arcs. Continuity and consistancy would have to be paramount- to the point of suffering from the Firefly problem (being aired out of synch would loose viewers).

This is all loose thinking at 4am, so I hope it's coherent.

1. Where have I seen the three class society wearing robes before?



2. Keeping CBSG terminology requires that you maintain continuity.

3. Description of the planetary assaults ignores the real physics of a gravity well.

4. The Cylon behemoth ships are a nice touch, but what is the point? A super sanddollar troop carrier is a bullseye that would attract every Colonial warrior within range. Realistically you want your Cylon troop transports to be small, plentiful, expendable and CHEAP. Remember that an opposed planetary landing is a crapgame for the attackers,where they gamble en masse that enough of them will get through to overrun the defense. There is no possibility of a defense in depth from close orbit so the defenders have nothing to lose in a stand and die type positional warfare. The attacker has to suppress that kind of defense. The only way is with swarming and MASS in huge numbers of small expendable units all the way from the embarkation points..

5. I dispise boneheads (Minbari). Upon close analysis as a social model they become a class-riddled, caste-driven society, prone to xenophobia and ritual genocide in their social attitudes. You might want to rethink your description of Colonial society in light of the real world models that inspired Minbari (medieval China and feudal Japan).

As always;

[ray243]

I agree with Damocles. Your story feels a bit 'outdated' by modern day viewers. Many of them, including me, like the story to be gritty and at the least realistic.

I reason I enjoy the nBSG is because of its serious military tone. There's no bullfelgercarb from star trek or technobabble like we have to divert power to shields or other kind of crap.

If the battlestar is going to be a warship, then it has to act like one. If the warriors are going to be realistic, they must be professional, listening to orders and knowing the right kind of response. There will be people who simply fix stuff, maintain vipers on the battlestars. You can't have warriors doing all this. Furthermore, I doubt many modern viewers will like a military force that act like cowboys.

Unlike the past, warriors cannot be just warrriors, a class where no else can join. It will seriously divide the society, and alienate the warriors from the backbone of the war efforts. You need engineers, designers, scientist to suistain the war effort.

Your idea might work in the 70s, but I don't know about the modern day audience. You are trying to make a series that is successful, not to kill it. To much religion influence can put away a large number of audience, it seem too preachy...


On the other hand, I think I prefer martok's work.

[Dawg]

I've not had time to read all of Norsehound's thoughts - obviously, he's done a lot of thinking about this or else he would not have such detailed ideas. This thread is HUGE for being so short.

There are a couple of things we need to keep in mind, though.

"Realism" in outer-space adventures is impossible. Nor is it entirely desirable - otherwise, we'd all be glued to the video feed from the ISS. But, in a word, it's boring.

What you need is just enough familiarity - just a tiny bit - to allow you to suspend your sense of disbelief for an hour or two. You know lightsabers can't exist - but you cheer Luke on, anyway.

BSG actually did pretty darn well in that. We beleived, for that hour (or two) that these really were 'brothers of man' in search of Earth - in search of us. Did the stories focus on the ground crew, or the other grunt labor? No - because, then as now, a fighter pilot was a highly romantic figure, and the story needed to be established - the flight for survival - before less romantic tales could be comfortably told. They only had an hour a week.

They also simply didn't have the time to delve into the more mundane. They were rushed into weekly production without much lead time. There were a lot of different factors at work that kept the focus on that small band of warriors.

Ray, I disagree with a lot of what you posted, but I'm going to observe this site's limitations on that discussion and not comment directly.

But there is nothing that says Norsehound can't take these basic ideas and build them into a coherent story that includes the detail you speak of. You take a rather discouraging tone with someone who lays out his own ideas to help preserve the heart and soul that was - and is - Battlestar Galactica. I, for one, would like to see Norsehound flesh out his ideas into a narrative. It may well rival Martok's work (which I'm also a big fan of).

I am
Dawg

[ray243]

I apologies if anyone feel that I am discouraging tone. My reasoning is because I know alot of people who enjoyed the nBSG, and pointed out their reason so and the trend now adays. (I am a fan of both series by the way)

Personally, I felt that fighter pilot being a romantic figure is over in this post 9-11 world.

However, I felt that Norsehound did put alot of work in writining done his idea and thoughts, and fully support his actions in his take of re-imagining.

[Norsehound]

more thoughts in the AM...

The idea of the military class is made in the intention to revive the hero. Presently, I don't see any heroes in nBSG. Heroes, in the sense that I see them, are gone (with the exception of the crew of Firefly). The colonial military in my vision are knights or Samurai, warriors who adhere to a moral code set down in religion for the betterment of society. By the time of the attack at Cimtar, they are the strongest moral center among the colonies- the spirit of Good. The rest of colonial society has degenerated into indulgence, lethergy, and pride.

The idea of three is based on the Holy Trinity, and not the Minbari. It was this same thing that inspired the Minbari three, also.

Dawg nailed it when he said how boring it would be to adhere to strict realism. Besides, the colonials in my vision are certainly more advanced than where we stand now- they have to be, since they are at the end of a thousand year war with an alien race bent on universal domination. Given how far we've progressed in the cold war, multiplied to the extent of the Cylon wars, I think the bridge can be made into unbeleiveability.

Cylon Mobiles are the flagships of the Cylon fleet. Baseships, lighter craft, even Cylon fighters are mass production ships. Mobiles are used for particularly difficult targets, and even then they are the flagships of such operations. Perhaps there is a finite number, and they are like my version of the Battlestars: Monuments to the Cylon Motes of Perfection, or whatever number is significant in thier world. What IS known is that Imperious leader has one, which is damaged by Solaria, and destroyed when it gets too close to Carrilon.

"...even amidst a world of pessimism, when all seems wrong with the universe and everything could collapse at any given time, and we begin to doubt our higher protectors... we have Faith to follow, Faith to guide, and Faith to inspire."

I'm very pleased that at least one person wants me to write a narriative of my version of Saga of a Star World. perhaps I'll persue it.

[Damocles]

Originally Posted by Norsehound

more thoughts in the AM...

The idea of the military class is made in the intention to revive the hero. Presently, I don't see any heroes in nBSG. Heroes, in the sense that I see them, are gone (with the exception of the crew of Firefly). The colonial military in my vision are knights or Samurai, warriors who adhere to a moral code set down in religion for the betterment of society. By the time of the attack at Cimtar, they are the strongest moral center among the colonies- the spirit of Good. The rest of colonial society has degenerated into indulgence, lethergy, and pride.

Nothing wrong with seeing the Western military as the epitome of idealism. They are. Plenty wrong with equating them to samurai. The historic samurai were bigots and class-exclusive. They were also paranoids with a high degree of intolerance; something which the British, American, Australian and most other western militaries are NOT. Think CITIZEN SOLDIER.

The idea of three is based on the Holy Trinity, and not the Minbari. It was this same thing that inspired the Minbari three, also.

Wrong.

http://www.katspace.org/fandom/b5/myth2

Try the Lord of the Rings and the societies I mentioned, transpose the Sylvan Elves into space, and throw in the Japanese, and voila-Boneheads.

You may be alluding to the fact that JMS was Jesuit-trained, but he could have pulled that three motif out of Hinduism where it antecedes Christianity by centuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduis...ther_religions

He is also trained in Hinduism.

Dawg nailed it when he said how boring it would be to adhere to strict realism. Besides, the colonials in my vision are certainly more advanced than where we stand now- they have to be, since they are at the end of a thousand year war with an alien race bent on universal domination. Given how far we've progressed in the cold war, multiplied to the extent of the Cylon wars, I think the bridge can be made into unbeleiveability.

Science realism within your universe in science fiction frames the story. The writer's work comes in the writing of the character and the conflict. I object to science fantasy on those grounds. Berman Drek(TM) is fantasy. It's wrongness always intruded into the story. The Killer Bees could never understand that their milieu has to have consistency to work. No miracle particle of the week or the morphing do all be all photon torpedo. Also, if you build a borg, it has to be a borg, not some plastic man named Hugh.

Cylon Mobiles are the flagships of the Cylon fleet. Baseships, lighter craft, even Cylon fighters are mass production ships. Mobiles are used for particularly difficult targets, and even then they are the flagships of such operations. Perhaps there is a finite number, and they are like my version of the Battlestars: Monuments to the Cylon Motes of Perfection, or whatever number is significant in thier world. What IS known is that Imperious leader has one, which is damaged by Solaria, and destroyed when it gets too close to Carrilon.

If that is your vision, then you cannot have these moving fortresses participate in direct assault as you describe. They become Cylon command/logistics nodes. The purpose of the Mobile, is as a base ship from which the assault forces debark, and head into the planetary assault from beyond the range of the local defense.

It is sort of like the Death Star was actually supposed to be, before Lucass screwed it up. A mobile moon under those circumstances, operating as the command hub, and the fleet logistics for the actual invasion, makes Cylon sense; not actual military sense, but it would make Cylon sense; do you follow?

"...even amidst a world of pessimism, when all seems wrong with the universe and everything could collapse at any given time, and we begin to doubt our higher protectors... we have Faith to follow, Faith to guide, and Faith to inspire."

I'm very pleased that at least one person wants me to write a narriative of my version of Saga of a Star World. perhaps I'll persue it.

I too would like to read your work. As of now, I'm digesting Semmut's work in the VSS, which I find to be very interesting.

As always;

[bionicbob]

Originally Posted by Norsehound

I'm very pleased that at least one person wants me to write a narriative of my version of Saga of a Star World. perhaps I'll persue it.

I too think Norsehound's ideas are great and as valid as anyone else's posted in the forum.

Personnally, I think the current trend to gritty realism in sci-fi is becoming depressing. Whatever happened to the Fantastic, the sense of Wonder, the magic of being transported somewhere other than here. In good sci-fi, anything can and should be possible. With the correct writers, producers, directors, costume and set designers any type of world can be created and made believeable.... whether it is characters wearing Togas (the Jaffa in Stargate), a society divided into a rigid class system (Babylon 5 or even Dune) or an elite class of Warriors dedicated to Good (Jedi anyone?). By themselves on paper these ideas may seem silly or outdated, but with the proper vision and guidance they can be made to seem more real than our own world.

I mean if you want to talk about realism, is it really realistic in the New BSG for a society that is hundreds of years (maybe more) techniclogically more advanced (FTL Drive, 12 different planetary colonies)than ourselves, that has evolved seperately from our own, would dress, talk and techniclogically look like 21 century Western Earth? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, I think the new series is one of the best dramas on current television and I watch it avidly but it is not what I would call realistic.

Honestly, I think in this post-911 world we need more Fantasty, more Wonder, more Classic Heroes. There is so much fear and darkness in the world, what is wrong with wanting to escape for an hour each week into another world, a clearer world of good and evil?

So to Norsehound I say, Go For It.

[WarMachine]

Originally Posted by bionicbob

I too think Norsehound's ideas are great and as valid as anyone else's posted in the forum.

Hey, in fanfic, everyone's ideas and visions have merit...Until, of course, you start talking about money That just ruins everything...

Personnally, I think the current trend to gritty realism in sci-fi is becoming depressing.

THANK GOD[S] someone said it! The only "gritty-realism" sci-fi show that has gotten it right has been "Firefly"; I have some issues there, but they're more in the realm of nitpicks than anything else. (And no, I consider B5 to be more 'epic' than 'realistic', although it does the best job of at least attempting to stick to realism as far as they can.)

Whatever happened to the Fantastic, the sense of Wonder, the magic of being transported somewhere other than here. In good sci-fi, anything can and should be possible. With the correct writers, producers, directors, costume and set designers any type of world can be created and made believeable.... whether it is characters wearing Togas (the Jaffa in Stargate), a society divided into a rigid class system (Babylon 5 or even Dune) or an elite class of Warriors dedicated to Good (Jedi anyone?). By themselves on paper these ideas may seem silly or outdated, but with the proper vision and guidance they can be made to seem more real than our own world.

I mean if you want to talk about realism, is it really realistic in the New BSG for a society that is hundreds of years (maybe more) techniclogically more advanced (FTL Drive, 12 different planetary colonies)than ourselves, that has evolved seperately from our own, would dress, talk and techniclogically look like 21 century Western Earth? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, I think the new series is one of the best dramas on current television and I watch it avidly but it is not what I would call realistic.

While we disagree on the Drama part, I think you're spot-on everywhere else. One of the things I liked about CBSG was that the people are different: different clothes, different views - yet similar to what we know. They are clearly a separate group from us.

GINO never even makes the attempt. It's like SM Stirling is ghosting for them.

Honestly, I think in this post-911 world we need more Fantasty, more Wonder, more Classic Heroes. There is so much fear and darkness in the world, what is wrong with wanting to escape for an hour each week into another world, a clearer world of good and evil?

Again, while we disagree on the Fantasy part, your other two points - especially the last one - are badly needed in this day and age.

[Norsehound]

While we disagree on the Drama part, I think you're spot-on everywhere else. One of the things I liked about CBSG was that the people are different: different clothes, different views - yet similar to what we know. They are clearly a separate group from us.

GINO never even makes the attempt. It's like SM Stirling is ghosting for them.

This was my motivation for robes over suits, and Warriors over soldiers.

The colonies are a different place with a different mentality, they are not us. If anything, they are a reflection of our ancient, ancient ancestors... which may have been inspired by whom?

THANK GOD[S] someone said it! The only "gritty-realism" sci-fi show that has gotten it right has been "Firefly"; I have some issues there, but they're more in the realm of nitpicks than anything else. (And no, I consider B5 to be more 'epic' than 'realistic', although it does the best job of at least attempting to stick to realism as far as they can.)

Yes, FIREFLY IS AWESOME. I find it surprising that Joss Whedon thinks TNS is great... though I suspect he just didn't want to be associated with the negativity of the haters. Remember he's trying to keep Firefly alfoat... don't want to loose all the TNS zombies just because he hates thier wonderful gold-foil boat.

There was a thread on sci-fi forums in Firefly which asked what the opposite of Firefly would be... many said Star Trek, but I thought it was TNS.... for more than one reason

Again, while we disagree on the Fantasy part, your other two points - especially the last one - are badly needed in this day and age.

Of Classic heroes I can't agree any further.

It seems to me the idea of a hero is a significantly flawed protagonist. In the case of TNS, all the protagonists are flawed to the point of being unable to relate to them. I find it sad... I once wrote a long spiel somewhere comparing the old series to the new... and how TOS had Real Heroes we could look to for inspiration. This isn't the case in TNS... nobody wants to be a human being in that series.

Firefly is so sucessful because Whedon used Han Solo as inspiration for many of his characters. Sure, Han was flawed: he was a gambler, a selfish smuggler who sold his services out to the highest bidder. He got in trouble. He was a wanted man. The authority of the universe didn't like him.

But he had this nobility to him that made him turn around and save Luke. The same nobility to go looking for Luke in pretty much a frozen hell. The same nobility that kept him alligned with the Rebels, because they were fighting against an oppressive society that wouldn't take no for an answer. THAT is a GOOD definition of a Hero... the kind I would have liked to see in BSG.

Moore, apparently, doesn't agree.

But in my version, I want heroes like that. Sure they have problems, but in all of them they have the sense of morality and the ability to do the right thing. For those of them that don't well.... we have Baltar, and his enslaved crew of the Valkyrie.

[Dawg]

Gents, I'm going to step in here and remind you that we don't discuss that show here. This topic is a current trend to "realism" in entertainment - a concept that seems mutually exclusive in some respects. It's not about a subject that we've excised from our forum.

OK?

Thanks.

I am
Dawg