If the New Galactica suceeds like New Spiderman...

[Apothis]

What would be your impressions? Would you be shocked? Would you have the curiousity to see what others see in the new Galactica?

Reading Hobbs is post is very enlightening about Hollywood. Spiderman the Movie was very much a re-imagining of the Spiderman comic. Spiderman fans were not happy with the changes but the film still hit big. Could this happen with the New Galactica?

[Apothis]

That was quite funny to read Warrior. Those are differences but I am still waiting to see something official from the Moore camp. They have been silent and the only thing I have heard is that the new show is still can be recognized as Galactica and is more similar than dis-similar. What we have had leak out was a casting sheet which does not give us the true overall picture of the Galactica production according to the article from Filmjerk, Ron Moore's reply to Raymar3d, and by Michael Faries himself.

[AlternityOrange]

Using Spider-Man as a comparison with Galactica is not appropriate. Speaking as someone who has been reading Spider-Man comics for decades, I can say that the movie was not a re-imagining. It was an adaption. A highly accurate adaption, actually. Had Galactic been say, a 30's comic strip or movie serial of which the 70's series was merely an adaption of it would be an accurate comparison. The fan controversy over Spider-Man ultimately was very slight. It was also originally based on earlier drafts of the script which had far more significant differences than organic web-shooters. But again, the two properties are apples and oranges.

[Apothis]

Thanks AlternityOrange, I am not a Spiderman comic fan but I did like the cartoon. Maybe the early draft of the Moore script will change to something more recognizeable. However, nothing official has yet come from Moore.

[havoc315]

Originally posted by Warrior

Spider-man was still Peter Parker. Apollo is now Lee Adama.

Apollo was the son of Adama, he is still the son of Adama, he is still called Apollo, he has just been given a less corny first and last name... Hardly a very big change.

Mary Jane didn't have a sex change. Starbuck does.

But other characters were drastically changed. Even the way Peter Parker meets Mary Jane is completely different. Mary Jane isn't supposed to be someone he knew from elementary school and living next door.

Peter Parker still cared for his aunt and uncle. Lee Adama will hate his father.

Whoa! Where does this come from? We know from the casting sheet that Apollo will have some conflict with his father, they even had occassional conflicts on the original BSG...... conflict between parent and son hardly means hate. For all we know, they will put aside their conflicts in the first half hour of the remake and give each other a big hug.

Harry Osborne was still Peter Parkers friend. Starbuck will now be Apollo's girlfriend.

We don't know wheter that will happen or not. For all we know, they will simply be friends. For all we know about the original show, maybe Starbuck was Apollo's "girlfriend" off-camera, lol.

The older Osborne was still crazy and became the Green Goblin. Baltar will now be pitied for having sex with a "humanoid" Cylon.

Be pitied? How do you know that? Older Osbourne was driven crazy by a formula he was testing.... Baltar will be driven crazy by a cylon.

Sorry... but the Spider-man movie kept the most important elements of the Spider-man mythos (same with Superman, btw!) while this re-imagined BSG won't keep any of it.

The most important elements?? Every change you have mentioned, every single one, is a superficial change, similar to the changes in Spiderman.

The most significant change you have cited is that Starbuck will be female.

Destruction of homeworld by enemies? check.
Destruction of fleet by enemies? check.
enemies are robots called cylons? check.
Betrayed by Baltar? check.
Galactica commanded by Adama? check.
Adama has son named Apollo? check, except now its a callsign instead of name.
Vipers commanded by Apollo? check.
Apollo is friends with pilot named Starbuck? check.
Rag tag fleet? check.
rag tag fleet seeks mythical planet of earth? check.

You stated the re-make of BSG won't keep any of the same important elements..... but that is plainly and entirely untrue. I just listed 10 elements, each one being more important that Starbuck's gender, and they are all being kept the same.


MAJOR difference. [/B]

[Apothis]

Havoc, you are right that many of the major elements are still the same. Thanks for pointing that out.

[vmnjn]

I doubt it could be as successful. It does not have the direct measuring stick of ticket sales. However it could still be successful.

I would be shocked if it is. Though if it is a good story I would be happy. Even if it isn't it will help draw attention and fans to the original BG.

[michaelfaries]

I've read the Spider-Man script since the movie premiered. If I were reading that script for the FIRST time (and bear in mind, I collected Spider-Man comics between 1970s-1990s) before seeing the movie, and seeing if it honored the source material, I would say YES, regardless of the Gwen Stacy/Mary Jane Watson flip-flops, the comic book continuity, the embellishments, the organic web shooters, etc.

With the BG remake, this is NOT the case, imho. Wait for my review.

Michael
:colwar:

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by Apothis
That was quite funny to read Warrior.

I didn't see the humor in Warrior's post. I thought it was quite straightforward. (Well-written, too.) That's just my opinion, though.

Michael
:colwar:

Originally posted by havoc315
Destruction of homeworld by enemies? check.
Destruction of fleet by enemies? check.
enemies are robots called cylons? check.
Betrayed by Baltar? check.
Galactica commanded by Adama? check.
Adama has son named Apollo? check, except now its a callsign instead of name.
Vipers commanded by Apollo? check.
Apollo is friends with pilot named Starbuck? check.
Rag tag fleet? check.
rag tag fleet seeks mythical planet of earth? check.

If I may interject here....

Here are a few more "checks" (or rather, vice-versa) of a few things in RDM's "reimagined 'saga'":
[list=1]Cylons created by reptiles who were envious of humans? No check. Created by humans.

Kobol an abandoned planet millenia before destruction of colonies? No check.

Adama and Apollo have a strong, almost unbreakable bond with one another? No check. They hate each other because of Zac. Despite the fact that Zac was the one who saved Apollo, who then warned the Galactica -- but just a bit too late.

Adama was the one who thought of the plan to search for the Thirteenth Colony? No check.

Adama has total command of the fleet? No check. He has shared command with a president.

Adama is president of the Quorum? No check.

Baltar is motivated by a desire to rule all humanity? No check. His motivation is in his underpants.

Baltar schemes to find the Galactica and her rag-tag, fugitive fleet? No check.

Starbuck is a womanizer who finds his father? No check.[/list=1]

To be fair, here are a few things that have checks.
[list=1]
RDM rips off themes from Harlan Ellison's story "Soldier" and the movie series that was inspired by it (Terminator)? Check.

RDM administers random sex changes to characters? Check.

RDM has a version of 7 of 9/sexy robot in story? Check.

RDM is trying to turn show into outlet to produce morality plays a la Star Trek? Check.

RDM taunts villian with a chip in his head, as in every other mind-control SF story out there? Check. (Why not just hire James Marsters a.k.a. Buffy's Spike?)[/list=1]

As to the original question posed, do I think this creature will succeed?

I know one thing, this is not Battlestar Galactica. You can have Cylons, you can have Battlestars, and you can use the names of planets... but that doesn't make Battlestar Galactica... It's the characters that do. And screwing with them isn't going to garner fans.

This series, as provided, would probably work best if it was just named something else (or even set a couple hundred or so yahren in the future). Then it would not be so bad, and diehard fans can watch the show knowing that their beloved characters weren't the victims of a sadist with issues bent on replacing their precious reproductive organs.

[KJ]

Apothis you are quite correct the 90's Cartoon as much as say the 80's or 60's cartoon series of Spider-man was incredible. I wouldn't say this Spider-man movie should be compared to Galactica revival attempts because it's situation is far different.
The spider-man movie came out and despite fans up and down views and opinions on the Spider-man movie. It was great as a comic book adaptation.

Galactica should be compared to the struggling "Superman Lives/Reborn" project which has enough sillyness in it, to give Moore's Galactica outline a run for it's money! Yes as fans we only go on the information given to us through sources. But those sources are enough for us to debate subjects on. Seems any fan favorite project, comic or Sci-fi fantasy related is enough to have hardcore fans and those who care about it's direction, and are up in arms at it's return in any shape or form that it's finished form will be presented to the awaiting public and viewing audience.

Continuty and staying true to the source material is what counts, and we are not getting this from those who control the copyright? Same can be said of people like me who follow the trials and tribulations of the Superman Lives/Reborn saga going on at the "WB".

This must be said about the fiasco, after 10 years, after James Cameron's huge fight over Spider-man, the legal tape trapping the movie up for years after it was all said and done Spider-man came out and was big, real BIG. How many of us right now can say after 25 years Galactica, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA can do and say the same and come back and do for Television what Spider-man did for the cinema's box office? As much as i like Battlestar, the Spider-man comparison is way off. this franchise has problems that should be compared to the "Superman Lives" project, if at all anything. Hopefully both will iron out the problems or else we're in trouble.

KJ

[thomas7g]

Spiderman also had a very dificult time before becoming produced. It took about ten-twenty years of lawsuits before the film could be made.

[Apothis]

So Michael, are the rewrites nothing like the show we loved.

[dvo47p]

Spiderman the movie opened to over 2,000 screens across America & Canada*, HUGE budget, millions in advertising, websites, the whole nine yards. *4 owd

Ron D. Moore's ("Naturalistic Science Fiction"?) Battlestar Galactica, might_maybe, I hope not, be on a small cable channel, where a 3.6 rating for first episode of "Taken" caused mutiple orgasims.

RDM in michaelfaries Q&A said he might have an eight figure budget. Ya know all 20 hours of "Taken" had an eight figure budget. ($40,000,000.00) Bonnie ain't giving Ronnie $10,000,000.00 for four hours of Battlestar lite. !CHECK?!

To that god awful Spiderman TV series from the late 70s that was a reimagined version that didn't stay true to the comic book origin. What happened to it? It Tanked.

[havoc315]

Of course you may interject.... but it seems you have either been misinformed, or you have access to information not publicly available.

Originally posted by joebeaudoin



Here are a few more "checks" (or rather, vice-versa) of a few things in RDM's "reimagined 'saga'":
[list=1]Cylons created by reptiles who were envious of humans? No check. Created by humans.

Original cylons: origin unknown.

Kobol an abandoned planet millenia before destruction of colonies? No check.

Adama and Apollo have a strong, almost unbreakable bond with one another? No check. They hate each other because of Zac. Despite the fact that Zac was the one who saved Apollo, who then warned the Galactica -- but just a bit too late.

Hate? According to the casting sheet, they will be in conflict, that does not mean they hate each other. Apollo and Adama had conflicts in the original BSG, it's really nothing new at all.

Adama was the one who thought of the plan to search for the Thirteenth Colony? No check.

Now where have you heard that? Based on the limiting information in the casting sheet, we know he wants to stay and fight the cylons, but we don't know whether he is the one who ultimately organizes the plan to seek the 13th colony. It still might be his plan. And even if it isn't, so what? They still seek out the 13th colony, he is still in command of the fleet.

Adama has total command of the fleet? No check. He has shared command with a president.

And you claim to be a core fan of the original? In the original BSG, he had to obey the civilian government, the new Quorom of Twelve. I just re-watched the original movie, and that point is crystal clear. He had to convince the Quorom not to surrender to the cylons, he had to answer to the civilian authority. So you have actually just come out with another check of RDM being loyal to the original.

[b]

Adama is president of the Quorum? No check.[/q]

On information and belief, he was not president of the Quorom in the original either.

[quote][b]
Baltar is motivated by a desire to rule all humanity? No check. His motivation is in his underpants.[/b/]/quote]

But that wasn't his motiviation in the original series either.... The Cylons made it clear they were going to kill every single human, the destroyed his colony along with the rest. So what was his motivation? Unexplained, not to rule humanity.

Baltar schemes to find the Galactica and her rag-tag, fugitive fleet? No check.

How do you know that? We don't know what will happen if BSG becomes a series again. I would fully expect that Baltar does leave the fleet and becomes a leader of the cylons, just like the original.

Starbuck is a womanizer who finds his father? No check.

I already listed Starbuck being female as a difference, but how do you know she won't also be a womanizer who finds her father?

Originally posted by havoc315
Of course you may interject.... but it seems you have either been misinformed, or you have access to information not publicly available.

Well, I hate to say this, but I do have a little more information on the subject. But I don't need that to tell you that you seem misinformed on some aspects of the show:

Original cylons: origin unknown.

Apollo said that the Cylons were created by creatures called Cylons -- they were not human. It was later said (This discussion was in the three hour movie, and I don't think that this was ever said in the MOVIE version that is on DVD.)

This was mentioned on the FAQ that was on the now defunct Kobol.com (I believe that this is located somwhere on BattlestarPegasus.com now) and a description of the Cylons can be found here. (Read the first line underneath the Cylons, if you would please.)

http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton/glosc.html

Hate? According to the casting sheet, they will be in conflict, that does not mean they hate each other. Apollo and Adama had conflicts in the original BSG, it's really nothing new at all.

Your latter point is correct: Apollo and Adama disagreed on actions. However, both respected one another's opinions; Apollo never exhibited traits of wanton anger towards Adama.

However, I am justified to say that they hate one another; actually, I'm just echoing directly from the casting sheet. Of which I am going to quote directly from regarding the character of Lee "Apollo" Adama:

"A man with a long-simmering bitterness against his famous and respected father, Lee believes that his brother Zak was forced into military service by their father, and that Zak’s death was due to Commander Adama’s demands upon his son."

And another quote:

"[...]Barely civil to his father when they meet formally, Lee regards visits to the Galactica as incidents to be endured."

And yet another:

"[...]Stunned by his father's emotion when they reunite, Lee begins to revise his low opinion of his father, as he begins the difficult task of protecting Galactica and its precious cargo of humanity against the Cylons."

Oh, and from the description of Adama (again from the casting sheet):

"Estranged from his son Lee[...]"

Now if none of this is indicative of hatred, I don't know what is.... Perhaps you might know better than I.

Now where have you heard that? Based on the limiting information in the casting sheet, we know he wants to stay and fight the cylons, but we don't know whether he is the one who ultimately organizes the plan to seek the 13th colony. It still might be his plan. And even if it isn't, so what? They still seek out the 13th colony, he is still in command of the fleet.

Yes, but Adama himself was the one whom ultimately pulled it all together. Yes, so they still seek out the 13th colony... these are technicalities.

However, his decision to flee and start another place DEVELOPS the Adama character. It shows that despite the death of his wife, his youngest son, and the mass death that occured on the colonies, he is a level-headed individual.

The Adama character, as said in that very same casting sheet, is a man who "after a verbal battle with the new President of the Twelve Colonies, Adama reluctantly bows to civilian rule and agrees to abandon Kobol and transport a pitifully small remnant of humanity to a distant star system, hoping to cut and run and escape the pursuing Cylons’ murderous fury".

In other words, he had to be commanded to flee. This automatically tells me that the thoughtful Adama we knew is not present; the original Adama didn't need someone above him (in this case, Laura Roslin, who has one of the most horrible names, by the way) to FORCE him to flee.

And you claim to be a core fan of the original?

What does this have to do with anything?

In the original BSG, he had to obey the civilian government, the new Quorom of Twelve. I just re-watched the original movie, and that point is crystal clear. He had to convince the Quorom not to surrender to the cylons, he had to answer to the civilian authority. So you have actually just come out with another check of RDM being loyal to the original.

I think you missed my point.

Adama has, throughout many of the episodes, blatantly defied the Quorum. Look at episodes such as "War of the Gods", "Baltar's Escape" and "Greetings From Earth".

Did he have to answer to Civilian authority when he and Cain were fighting the Cylon forces on Gamoray? No? Did he have to answer to civilian authority to attack the basestar in "Hand of God"? No?

I think Adama's actions in the original prove my point.

On information and belief, he was not president of the Quorom in the original either.

Not initially. Later on he became president and overall commander of the Fleet, given the martial law status throughout.

If you're not convinced, you can check out the plethora of BSG sites online.

Here's a link to one of the more respected ones on the internet when it comes to information like this.

http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton

May I suggest you take the opportunity to read the information on that site over? The concordance is extremely informative, particularly for a one-year show.

Here's a direct link to information pertaining to Adama (as he was in the original):

http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton/glosa.html#adama

But that wasn't [Baltar's] motiviation in the original series either.... The Cylons made it clear they were going to kill every single human, the destroyed his colony along with the rest. So what was his motivation? Unexplained, not to rule humanity.

No. The. Cylons. Did. not.

Baltar's faustian deal with them was for HIS COLONY to BE SPARED. That is why he gave them everything they needed to destroy the Colonies. His ultimate plan was to be the ruler of humanity.

The Cylons simply took advantage of this and said: "Destroy all humanity."

This was said in the pilot. The three hour one. The one you might very well have, the movie version if it's on DVD, does say this as well (I'll have to pop it into my laptop and play the part where he is present before the Imperious Leader, but I KNOW that Baltar's deal with the Cylons was to spare his colony and to dominate the remaining humans.

How do you know that? We don't know what will happen if BSG becomes a series again. I would fully expect that Baltar does leave the fleet and becomes a leader of the cylons, just like the original.

The Baltar in this version is a sexual pig. He did not hash a deal with the cylons. He was seduced by a Cylon operative who emulated a female with "drop-dead-looks and a perfect body".

Well, I can probably say that the "drop-dead" comment affected the humans on the Colonies...

Lovely. RDM gives us irony.

Given their apparent view of Baltar, I seriously doubt he would be given command of a basestar. (He does not become a leader of the Cylons, BTW. He only leads the expedition to find the Battlestar at the behest of the Imperious Leader.)

I already listed Starbuck being female as a difference, but how do you know she won't also be a womanizer who finds her father?

Perhaps you're right. Then again, by changing Starbuck into a female, RDM has radically changed the relationships Starbuck has with Boomer, Apollo, Adama and even his own father.

This is not to say that I believe that RDM's Starbuck will become one who likes her own gender. I wouldn't put it past him, given all the cliches he's pulling out to produce this abomination (as it is now).