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Old March 3rd, 2012, 03:55 PM   #91
Punisher454
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

Yes a Battlestar is much more than just a carrier. I think its an all-in-one supreme fighting ship.
I believe that the primary defense on a Battlestar is mass, lots of it. BSG does not use shields like we see in Trek and to a lesser extent Star Wars. To survive in battle a battlestar has to be big enough to absorb a lot of pounding. This means that there is a lot of usable space inside. The battlestar serves as the carrier, the battleship and the troop transport.
While I do think there would be other combat vessels such as long range scouting ships I dont think colonial battle groups would have large numbers of intermediate sized craft. Most of the ship types we see with earth Naval craft have simply been consolidated.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 12:50 AM   #92
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

Maybe I'm a simplist, but I always thought 12 colonies = 12 inhabited stellar bodies orbiting a star (or binary?). I dunno, oddly enough that's one thing I never sat down to think about. But if the Lords of Kobol were indeed as miraculous as they were to the colonials, perhaps it's not too far to believe that 12 colonies were engineered that way and forgotten about.

Senmut I feel your perception of a Battlestar seems to fit in line with what the nBSG galactica appeared to be. Personally I thought Colonial doctrine had more emphasis on the Battlestar as the hammer and the colonial fleet as the anvil. Battleships weren't entirely replaced, they were just augmented with fighters. That they hit so hard and are so expensive and large also suggested that there were only a few of them (Five, instead of dozens at cimtar). None of the other colonial vessels appear to come close to Galactica's size. We have supertankers in the modern day that reach the size of supercarriers- you'd think that there would be commercial craft as large as a battlestar if that kind of scale was near commonplace. At least, the SFX department didn't go out of their way to show a ship distinctly bigger than the Galactica...

There was talk about the Colonial defenses at Caprica (And others) being shut down by sabetuers, but if I ever command a remake of Saga I would want to add some show by the Colonial air force against the cylons. Think of them as the national guard I guess, being forced to re-arm with real munitions while wearing parade colors. Wouldn't that be a sight!
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Old March 4th, 2012, 01:41 AM   #93
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

The real problem here is that we were given so very little to go on. I think a remake of Saga (if it ever happens) should have at least an hour of screen time to show the fleet as well as normal colonial life before the destruction.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 10:34 AM   #94
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

I'm an amateur writer, not a screenplay writer with lots of practice, but if it were up to me I'd use the lamenting and woes of the fugitives to describe what life was before the destruction. Could be incentives for some.

What we got in Saga was enough if it had some subtle expansions. The main fleet for example would have smaller escorts, or some line dropped about how the 'prestigious battlestars' are alone representing the colonies. If the people are in decadent celebration on Caprica, then show some display of it as Serina is making her broadcast (tho I think one re-write outline I had somewhere had her interviewing Ila, who essentially describes how Caprican culture is letting its guard down like the military is).

Lack of material isn't exactly the problem... look how much came out of Star Wars after all!
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Old March 4th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #95
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher454 View Post
Yes a Battlestar is much more than just a carrier. I think its an all-in-one supreme fighting ship.
I believe that the primary defense on a Battlestar is mass, lots of it. BSG does not use shields like we see in Trek and to a lesser extent Star Wars. To survive in battle a battlestar has to be big enough to absorb a lot of pounding. This means that there is a lot of usable space inside. The battlestar serves as the carrier, the battleship and the troop transport.
While I do think there would be other combat vessels such as long range scouting ships I dont think colonial battle groups would have large numbers of intermediate sized craft. Most of the ship types we see with earth Naval craft have simply been consolidated.
Recall, in TLL, Cain orders "all electronic defense shields to maximum power". We also, in the pilot, see shots directed at the Atlantia diffuse into colored smears, as they strike parts of the ship. There are shields, but their capability and extent are never made clear.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #96
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

I think it could be a combination of both actually... bulk and defenses.

Battlestars appeared to be the good version of Star Destroyers after all, which pretty much rely on the same things to succeed (Turbo lasers, shields, mass, some fighters).
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Old March 4th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #97
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

Indeed. In fact, I consider the overall design of the Batlestar to be superior to the ISD.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 02:02 AM   #98
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

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Originally Posted by Senmut View Post
Indeed. In fact, I consider the overall design of the Batlestar to be superior to the ISD.
I agree with that view........ for a number of reasons, The only area of real superiority is possibly the range of a ISD over a Battlestar.

I believe the deference of a battlestar to also carry shields of some description, but nothing like those on Star Trek, more deflection of energy from long range attacks....

Raiders have to get in close to do any real damage or ramming a Battlestar is called for to be effective..... overwhelming odd as in Saga is need to win the day...

we have chatted in other threads about the possible crews of a battlestar just to run it and I bring this point up again due to Punisher454 comment about the mass of a battlestar and that inner space,,,,, there is lots of it.

its longer than a ISD by around 300ft more or less but not as tall and wide as a ISD.

The crew of a ISD is 37,000. this includes the troops... alas the number mentioned in the series is 6000 for the survivors of the fleet in Gun on Ice planet zero by Captain Apollo.

I always cringe when I hear it....

So my view is that he was talking about the Galactica crew,,, the operations crew that is... as that is where he works and lives.

a lot of space is taken up by the massive energizers, engines, engineering shops.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #99
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

Another thing to consider is colonial spacecraft technology and how well does it scale up and down.
For example, here on earth we have some types of tech that increase efficiency when they are scaled down, other types of tech that get better as scale gets larger. This could also be a factor in explaining why build such a massive vessel.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #100
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

It seemed to me while Battlestars had greater fighter capacity (with superior fighters), they didn't have any large-scale armaments visible from afar (like the turbolaser batteries on the flanks of an ISD). Though what about the Pegasus missiles? This kind of thinking is going into fan-war territory but hey, for the purposes of comparisons.

Without her fighters I think raiders have an advantage over a Battlestar if most of her armaments are configured for anti-ship attacks. Five Battlestars and a handful of fighters couldn't fight off several (three?) base-ship's worth of raiders at Cimtar, which has to suggest something. My guess is that the colonials shifted back to a heavy gun mentality after moving into space, as much of our modern earth-bound fighting force relies on fighters.

An interesting thought is why the colonials don't have fighter-based missiles if they have the Pegasus ones. Maybe a case of borrowed technology from another civilization they never developed and fully understood? (VFX is the obvious answer, but it's still something we fans can ponder).
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Old March 5th, 2012, 02:25 PM   #101
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

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Originally Posted by Norsehound View Post
It seemed to me while Battlestars had greater fighter capacity (with superior fighters), they didn't have any large-scale armaments visible from afar (like the turbolaser batteries on the flanks of an ISD). Though what about the Pegasus missiles? This kind of thinking is going into fan-war territory but hey, for the purposes of comparisons.

Without her fighters I think raiders have an advantage over a Battlestar if most of her armaments are configured for anti-ship attacks. Five Battlestars and a handful of fighters couldn't fight off several (three?) base-ship's worth of raiders at Cimtar, which has to suggest something. My guess is that the colonials shifted back to a heavy gun mentality after moving into space, as much of our modern earth-bound fighting force relies on fighters.

An interesting thought is why the colonials don't have fighter-based missiles if they have the Pegasus ones. Maybe a case of borrowed technology from another civilization they never developed and fully understood? (VFX is the obvious answer, but it's still something we fans can ponder).
Yes its a fruitless excise comparing the universe, while the turbo lasers are quite large on the Battlestars ..... here is an interesting image...
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Old March 5th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #102
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

My point is from afar you can't see where the batteries are. I didn't know the two cannons in the stock shots were on the flight pods until I saw a post with a close-up of the launch tubes and where they were.

Since it makes sense that a larger cannon fires a larger bolt and is more powerful, if weapons are large enough to be seen from afar it suggests they're more powerful. If you look at a battlestar there's no obvious guns. Many of the weapons on an ISD are also not obvious, except for the four sideline turrets.

Even so, thanks for that image. Always nice to see uncommon stuff. Though I wonder if that crewman image would mean another debate on battlestar scaling...
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Old March 5th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #103
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

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Originally Posted by Norsehound View Post
My point is from afar you can't see where the batteries are. I didn't know the two cannons in the stock shots were on the flight pods until I saw a post with a close-up of the launch tubes and where they were.

Since it makes sense that a larger cannon fires a larger bolt and is more powerful, if weapons are large enough to be seen from afar it suggests they're more powerful. If you look at a battlestar there's no obvious guns. Many of the weapons on an ISD are also not obvious, except for the four sideline turrets.

Even so, thanks for that image. Always nice to see uncommon stuff. Though I wonder if that crewman image would mean another debate on battlestar scaling...
No problem.....

I understand the point your making... I don´t agree totally with it

While I am not expert in this area......... the larger cannon makes sense if it was shooting a projectile to cover a large range...

But would a larger cannon make a difference when using a laser beam. (how ever that would be done by some advanced race)

??

I have given this a little thought recently,

If I was designing a weapon for the Battlestars or any space craft expected to going into battle, I would do my best to shield them behind armor as much as possible.

Rather than having them too exposed and open to easy attack as we see in the show...

some thoughts ?
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Old March 5th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #104
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

Call it cinimatic logic if you will. I don't want to get so involved in the comparison as to judge if bolt firepower is the same between the two. In my mind, a bigger weapon means bigger destructive capability.

With energy shields you don't need to rely on armored shutters so much. You also have the drawback of the steps and maintenance needed to keep those shutters working and operational. With guns out on the hull with no protection sure they might be easier to hit, but they'd be faster to bring into battle.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 04:56 PM   #105
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Default Re: Where Are The Fleets?

Let's try another way to calculate the number of battlestars. Instead of figuring out the number of battlestars we might try to compare the number of vipers with the number of airctaft or carrier based aircraft in times of war in our history. Comparing the strength of German Luftwaffe approx. 3700 (transport aircraft excluded) at the start of WW2 with German population at that time 90M, we can see, that there was one combat plane for each 25,000 citizens. If colonies only had 10 billion people, that would translate into 400,000 vipers (larger spaceships could be analogized with sea ships). Comparation with the US fleet of fleet carriers in the years 1945 to 1947 (25 to 27) with the US population that time, gives around 200,000 vipers based on Battlestarts (if battlestar is the analogy for fleet carrier and colonies population is again 10G). Such number of vipers need enormously large fleet of battlestars, so the number needs to be lower than my calculation. But still, colonials were at war, and they needed to field a lot of air power (it's space and infantry is of limited use without support). That makes me believe that low number of battlestars is quite unlikely.
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