I am *very* dissapointed.

[repcisg]

Glen has studied a bit of history as well as the classics.

Parallels

In 1940 the German army launched an all out assault against France with stunning swiftness. As the onslaught reached deep into France, panic set in and those who could, sought escape routs out of the country. The French Navy had at that time two new Battleships of the Richelieu class, in the harbors of St. Nazaire and Brest. Of these ships, one was almost fully operational (Richelieu at Brest) and one about 60% complete (Jean Bart at St. Nazaire). Realizing the danger of staying in harbor, the French commanders organized all the transport ships they could into convoys and evacuated the cities of St.Nazaire and Brest into these transports. As the Germans entered the city of Brest the last ship slipped down the channel and out to sea; German units moving onto the hills overlooking the harbor were treated to the sight of a large rag tag fleet of ships, lead by a single large warship, heading west.

Sound familiar?

The Jean Bart’s story is even more note worthy. She lay in a building basin isolated from the main harbor by an earthen dam, this prevented the water level in the basin from changing with the tides. As the Germans approached, dredges were brought in to tear down the dam and deepen the channel leading to the main bay. On June 19, 1940, as the Germans were entering the city, the Jean Bart cleared the channel and headed into the main bay and the open sea; German bombers tried to stop her but scored only one light hit. The Germans could only watch helplessly, as Jean Bart and a convoy of transports slipped over the horizon.

Both ships survived the war and served as the core of the French navy until 1956, when they were retired.

[jewels]

Originally Posted by Boomer65

Thanks to you too monolith. You, Dawg, and antelope said it perfectly. This is all I've been trying to say. Although I didn’t know that the Stormtroopers and Cylons were designed by the same person.

The veritable Ralph McQuarrie, check the links page off the home page, he has (or someone has put up for him) a gallery of his design concepts. Look for the blue eye light cyclon and Bobba Fett might haunt you a bit.

The original BSG viper design actually became the Buck Rogers Starfighter.

Jewels

[Darth Marley]

Originally Posted by jewels

The veritable Ralph McQuarrie, check the links page off the home page, he has (or someone has put up for him) a gallery of his design concepts. Look for the blue eye light cyclon and Bobba Fett might haunt you a bit.

The original BSG viper design actually became the Buck Rogers Starfighter.

Jewels

So was Ralph McQuarrie responsible for them both having such poor aim?

[jewels]

Originally Posted by Darth Marley

So was Ralph McQuarrie responsible for them both having such poor aim?

:laugh: Well if you put men in suits...you expect their aim to be good?

Stormtroopers have good aim? I seem to remember Han & Luke being better.

Way to lighten this up, Darth!

[Boomer65]

Originally Posted by monolith21

I've seen a lot of people coming down on both the original BSG and the new one about rip offs and it kinda bums me out a bit.

One man’s “rip-off” is another’s “inspiration”.

Originally Posted by monolith21

No prob Boomer!
P.S. Unless I'm mistaken, The Return of Starbuck was inspired by the short story "Enemy Mine" and not vice versa. The movie didn't come out until the mid 80's but the story came out in '79.

A great example of similar shows with similar inspiration all of which were great. On cylon.org I read part of an interview from someone that worked on BSG1980 that said The Return of Starbuck was based on Hell in the Pacific. I also read somewhere that the movie Hell in the Pacific was based on a radio play. I don't know the varacity of any of these stories but they all make the same point. Good stories can be retold in new settings over and over again and will continue to gain relevance to new audiences.

I will say however that the concept of the baby needing to get away is unique to The Return of Starbuck and Enemy Mine, not Hell in the Pacific. If both got original inspiration from Hell in the Pacific they both show that it's possible to update and improve aspects of a classic in a remake also.

[LadyImmortal]

RE: "Enemy Mine" as someone pointed out was actually based off of a short story that was posted in one of those sci-fi anthology things and was written way back when (I couldn't tell you the date, I don't actually remember it). It might have been written after the movie you talked about... "Hell in the Pacific" or whatever... but just saying that I read the short story long, long, long before the movie ever came out =).

Just FYI!
--Rhonda

[dvo47p]

Originally Posted by shiningstar

According to the Court Case ........
of Lucas Sueing Larson/desanto because BSG was
a RIPOFF of Star Wars .......................
Lucas LOST .............

He LOST because he FAILED to PROVE his Case.

After TOS was canceled, the lawsuit was mute, ergo Lucas was sued a defunk show, all charges where dropped.

[repcisg]

A couple of points here,

1) Lucas did NOT sue Universal, NBC did.
2) The judge ruled against NBC.

* big smile *

[Jerry Vasilatos]

Originally Posted by repcisg

A couple of points here,

1) Lucas did NOT sue Universal, NBC did.
2) The judge ruled against NBC.

* big smile *

Okaaaaaaay. This is a new one. Can you explain to me why NBC would sue Universal on Lucas's behalf for alleged copyright infringement of "Star Wars" by "Galactica"? What exactly is the source for your allegation?

Do a Google search on Lucas, lawsuit and Galactica. I didn't see NBC come up anywhere in my search.

This did however. From: www.battlestarfanclub.com. I think it puts everything into perspective, especially for lovers of the Moore remake intent on tearing apart the original in defense of his hack job.

JV

***************************************************

Battlestar Galactica

By Walter Garrison

For SF buffs, Battlestar Galactica promises to be the television event of the decade-the best thing to happen to the small since Star Trek. Larger than two aircraft carriers combined, the mighty, impregnable battlestar-spaceship soared into view last September in a special three-hour episode, and has since conquered a majority of the viewing audience. All the ingredients for a great fantasy trip are there. The appealing crew includes two ace starfighter pilots. Lt. Starbuck and Captain Apollo, a cool beauty named Athena, and a Moses-like leader, Commander Adama, whose awesome duty is to lead mankind to the promised land called Earth. For comedy relief there is Muffet II, a cute mechanical replica of the original "dogget" who bit the dust when the planet Caprica-one of the original 12 colonies of man-was destroyed. The real scene-stealers of the series however, turn out to be the Cylon Centurions, chrome, non-rusting, self replicating robots whose "heads" contain malevolent red scanners that move continually as they monitor man's progress in the Universe. So far, they have not accomplished their self-ordained mission-to annihilate that emotional, unpredictable and wasteful creature known as man.

The show received a gigantic publicity boost weeks before its debut when 20th Century-Fox accused the producers of Galactica of ripping off its multi-million dollar property, Star Wars. Since Lucas had planned a series of Luke Skywalker sequels, Fox officials were burning mad when Galactica producer Glen Larsen came out with a television spin-off. Lucas, busying himself with the script of the first sequel, failed to notice what was happening until it was too late. By then Larsen had also walked off with Star Wars special effects man John Dykstra. Universal had evidently changed its corporate mind. They had turned down Star Wars when Lucas presented it after his success at that studio with American Graffiti several years ago.

As of this writing the cross-fire is beginning to resemble a tempest in a teapot. To be sure, Battlestar Galactica bears more than a passing resemblance to Star Wars. But it is certainly not the first time-or the last-that Hollywood studios have cloned each other's movies. Several years ago, when United Artists had a smash hit with the James Bond series, Columbia responded with Matt Helm, 20th Century-Fox came out with Our Man Flint. Every studio seemed to have its own version of a hot box office genre-the superstud superspy. But this time there was a lawsuit. Fox didn't seem to think that imitation was the sincerest form of flattery. The studio tried to take the show off the air on the grounds of copyright infringement and unfair competition and trade practices. Meanwhile, the Battlestar sails on. The case will not be heard in court until next spring.

Is Galactica plagiarism? True, there are Cylon robots who resemble Galactic Storm Troopers and a robot dog named Muffet II, who is every bit as cute and lovable as R2-D2. The cynically macho Lieutenant Starbuck could be Han Solo, who vies for the hand of Princess Leia/Athena. And the spectacular laser-blasting spaceships and menagerie of interplanetary creatures could be from either film. "The law suit will probably be settled amicably," an inside source recently told Super Star Heroes. "It's Hollywood's way of saying "back off a little, you're starting to tread a little too closely on my turf>" The law suit is primarily a warning." In fact, when Newsweek ran a Galactica cover story and called the show "Son of Star Wars," Studio execs were delighted. "You couldn't buy that kind of publicity." a production staffer remarked.

Fortunately, Galactica possesses enough merits of its own to make the series work-even though it owes a debt of gratitude to its movie prototype. While cynics call it more of a rip-off than a gamble, Universal's roll of the dice has paid off. "We're a little panicky about keeping up the quality," producer Glen Larsen admits. "So far the ratings have been stratospheric." The most expensive series ever produced for television, Galactica has already cost a phenomenal $7 million for the first seven hours alone. The final budget will eventually dwarf Star Wars' $9 million production cost, but it remains to be seen if it will top that film's $250 million profit-which is still growing. Still, ABC-TV is selling ad time on Galactica for $300 per second If the series fulfills its promise and runs-and reruns-as long as Star Trek, fortunes will be made.

As Adama, Commander of the battlestar and leader of the human race's odyssey through space, Lorne Greene is the show's anchorman, an unlikely choice for the role. Greene is also its most experienced actor. "We got Greene," says a Universal spokesman, "because of his drawing power with the TV viewing public. They remember him from Bonanza, and even it they don't like science fiction they'll watch the show because he's in it." Greene, who left the Ponderosa five years ago and is now a Hollywood millionaire, describes his role as "the Moses of outer space. On Bonanza I gave orders, then went out to help do them. Here I only give orders, I don't get to help out with the fighting." Other than Greene, the only big names on the show belong to guest stars. "We signed mostly relative unknowns," explains a studio source, "because they didn't cost as much, even though they are very talented. We decided to give the initial budget to spectacular special effects."

Richard Hatch, late of TV's The Streets of San Francisco, rose to his present position through the soap opera ranks. Known for his temperament ("I'm impatient"), Hatch initially turned down the role of Captain Apollo because "the part seemed too limited and narrow." But Hatch even Star Wars "fell short of what it might have been, it had no sense of truth." Eventually the script was revised, more money was offered, and Hatch climbed aboard as the gung-ho Captain Apollo, Adama's son. Right now Hatch is worried about the effect this has on his private life. "Ladies don't really see me," he recently told a reporter. "They see an image of what they want me to be. It's gotten so I can't go anywhere without people pulling at me, wanting this, wanting that." Dirk Benedict, cast as Lieutenant Starbuck, the happ-go-lucky ace fighter pilot who has a taste for women and gambling, is more stoic about Galactica's success. "I may end up as the Bruce Springsteen of television," he says, referring o the superhyped rock star whose stardom never quite lived up to his publicity.

Plucked from near-obscurity on a Montana farm-where he had gone after a previous assault on Hollywood Dirk Benedict is the show's male sex symbol. "People don't understand Starbuck," Benedict claims. "He's not really a male chauvinist. He truly loves them but women always get the better of him, It's just like my personal life. Women are always just a step ahead of me.

For his part, Larsen has covered all bases in order to grab a primetime audience with plot devices and characters that are instantly recognizable. The inhuman Cylon Centurions can easily be interpreted as the Communist threat to the American way of life, and their dastardly sneak attack on the planets of mankind brings to mind the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Adama and company are presented as the original Ancient Astronauts on their way to bring wisdom and knowledge to the primitive tribes of earth. Their helmets will later be copied by Egyptian pharaohs-the same headdresses currently on display in the crowd-drawing King Tut exhibit-a neat double tie-in. From the contemporary computer "language" of Cobal comes the name of the planet Kobal, a temporary stop on the trip to earth. Nor has the Bible been overlooked as sours material, The first Show's council of twelve-representatives of the mankind's original planets-looked remarkably like a depiction of the Last Supper. The double-dealing bad angel Lucifer is also present, as are Mary Magdalene (Laurette Spang) and Judas Iscariot (John Colicos).

Like every successful science fiction entertainment, Galactica is amply imbued with what social critic Susana Sontag calls "the imagination of disaster." To producer Larsen, however, the show is "a giant toy. It's been great fun with the public's reception. While the battles and effects are very important, so are the people and story. Maybe we've done something new in science fiction."

[repcisg]

A lot of propaganda was produced during this period. Very big money was seen in after market toys and other products. Battlestar Galactica was seen as major competitor that would cut deeply into the anticipated profits and had to be stopped. NBC and Fox as major investors in Star Wars wanted Universal to shut down Battlestar Galactica.

One piece of false information stated in the article above is that Larson walked off with John Dykstra. By Dyksta's own words, the star Wars project was done and he was looking for another project. His new camera methods needed further development and Battlestar provided the funding for him to go forward. While filming Battlestar Galactica he remained under contract to do another Star Wars movie if one was planned. He left Universal to do The Empire Strikes Back.

Through out this period NBC and Fox put out tons of misinformation about Battlestar in order to kill it. You need to remember most writers who do reviews are dependent on the major studios for their income. Writers who routinely did work for NBC and Fox put out tons of biting reviews, taking every opportunity to trash Battlestar Galactica. We still see some of this today as “common knowledge.”

You only need to look at the intense visceral negativity from the counter publicity that has been put out about Battlestar to realize there is more there than just a writers dislike for the show. Bad shows die and disappear, but in the case of Battlestar, writers and reviewers have gone out of their way to do harm and have said things that were proven in court to be untrue.

[Boomer65]

Originally Posted by Jerry Vasilatos

From: www.battlestarfanclub.com. I think it puts everything into perspective, especially for lovers of the Moore remake intent on tearing apart the original in defense of his hack job.

Jerry – It’s funny, the passage that you posted remarked on the very similarities between the two shows that you so adamantly rejected earlier(Solo/Starbuck, Cylon/Stormtrooper, etc).

Originally Posted by www.battlestarfanclub.com

Is Galactica plagiarism? True, there are Cylon robots who resemble Galactic Storm Troopers and a robot dog named Muffet II, who is every bit as cute and lovable as R2-D2. The cynically macho Lieutenant Starbuck could be Han Solo, who vies for the hand of Princess Leia/Athena.

I don’t think anyone here is “tearing apart” TOS – only pointing out how rip-off accusations could be leveled at damn near anything. BTW, remarks like “lovers of the Moore remake” don’t come off as especially respectful of other’s opinions. This isn’t really worth getting all fired up about.

Originally Posted by repcisg

Bad shows die and disappear, but in the case of Battlestar, writers and reviewers have gone out of their way to do harm and have said things that were proven in court to be untrue.

Surely you’re not suggesting that all the bad reviews were motivated by something other than the writer’s/reviewer’s opinion? Look, I liked TOS, don’t get me wrong. But it had flaws just like any other show. I’m not going to deify it. And I’ve been equally critical of the mini.

[Jerry Vasilatos]

Originally Posted by repcisg

A lot of propaganda was produced during this period. Very big money was seen in after market toys and other products. Battlestar Galactica was seen as major competitor that would cut deeply into the anticipated profits and had to be stopped. NBC and Fox as major investors in Star Wars wanted Universal to shut down Battlestar Galactica.

Once again, where did you get this information that NBC was an investor in "Star Wars"?

JV

[Jerry Vasilatos]

Originally Posted by Boomer65

Jerry – It’s funny, the passage that you posted remarked on the very similarities between the two shows that you so adamantly rejected earlier(Solo/Starbuck, Cylon/Stormtrooper, etc).

Boomer, it's funny, you ignore the sentance following your focus on "similarities" that I have already debated as common "archetypes" in all fiction:

"Fortunately, Galactica possesses enough merits of its own to make the series work-even though it owes a debt of gratitude to its movie prototype."

I do not look at Starbuck and think of Han Solo. They are two completely diffferent characters. Nor do I look at Cylons and think stormtroopers, aside from the surface issue that they both wear armor.

JV

Originally Posted by Jerry Vasilatos

Richard Hatch, late of TV's The Streets of San Francisco, rose to his present position through the soap opera ranks. Known for his temperament ("I'm impatient"), Hatch initially turned down the role of Captain Apollo because "the part seemed too limited and narrow." But Hatch even Star Wars "fell short of what it might have been, it had no sense of truth." Eventually the script was revised, more money was offered, and Hatch climbed aboard as the gung-ho Captain Apollo, Adama's son. Right now Hatch is worried about the effect this has on his private life. "Ladies don't really see me," he recently told a reporter. "They see an image of what they want me to be. It's gotten so I can't go anywhere without people pulling at me, wanting this, wanting that." Dirk Benedict, cast as Lieutenant Starbuck, the happ-go-lucky ace fighter pilot who has a taste for women and gambling, is more stoic about Galactica's success. "I may end up as the Bruce Springsteen of television," he says, referring o the superhyped rock star whose stardom never quite lived up to his publicity.

A little off subject but Jerry picked a gem into seeing the mind set of Richard Hatch. Here is something from the early days of Galactica and what do we see:

Richard Hatch was known even then for his temperment. I think we all know what the "I'm impatient" quote implies. Hatch thought the role of Apollo was too limited and narrow and had a similar opinion of Staw Wars. It looks like he only came around because of money not the role.

At the time Hatch was a fairly successful proven actor coming off Streets of San Francisco and near the peak of his career. It appears at that time he was more concerned that parts were not good enough for him and that fans were a burden. Definitely someone with a big (inflated) ego.

What does this mean today:

If Richard Hatch is the same man, nothing Moore or anyone else (like Desanto) will offer will be good enough for him unless he is definitely the star!

If on the other hand Richard Hatch has a big ego that suffered from deflation (which his book series, continuation efforts, and convention appearances may imply---reaching for his past glory) he may be wanting very badly to be back on television in something more than a cameo but too proud to admit it.

Bottomline: Definitely no cameo but maybe (long shot) Commander Caine.

P.S. I like the Benedict quote. It shows that Benedict for one has had his feet and ego on the ground all along. I bet Dirk Benedict sleeps a lot better at night than Richard Hatch. I think it also explains why Dirk Benedict was on "The Lowdown" and Richard Hatch wasn't.

I would look for Benedict to be offered any major role on the Moore series before Hatch. It sounds like Benedict is easier to work with and has an open mind. In addition SCIFI did a movie with Benedict in the past when his career had pretty much ended. Benedict also did Larson a favor making Return of Starbuck. If whoever at SCIFI got Benedict the role in their SCIFI original movie a few years back maybe he might do them a favor, especially if he got a nice paycheck.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by repcisg

A lot of propaganda was produced during this period. Very big money was seen in after market toys and other products. Battlestar Galactica was seen as major competitor that would cut deeply into the anticipated profits and had to be stopped. NBC and Fox as major investors in Star Wars wanted Universal to shut down Battlestar Galactica.

One piece of false information stated in the article above is that Larson walked off with John Dykstra. By Dyksta's own words, the star Wars project was done and he was looking for another project. His new camera methods needed further development and Battlestar provided the funding for him to go forward. While filming Battlestar Galactica he remained under contract to do another Star Wars movie if one was planned. He left Universal to do The Empire Strikes Back.

Through out this period NBC and Fox put out tons of misinformation about Battlestar in order to kill it. You need to remember most writers who do reviews are dependent on the major studios for their income. Writers who routinely did work for NBC and Fox put out tons of biting reviews, taking every opportunity to trash Battlestar Galactica. We still see some of this today as “common knowledge.”

You only need to look at the intense visceral negativity from the counter publicity that has been put out about Battlestar to realize there is more there than just a writers dislike for the show. Bad shows die and disappear, but in the case of Battlestar, writers and reviewers have gone out of their way to do harm and have said things that were proven in court to be untrue.

Thank you so much for saying that. I think it's sad that people were and
still are so dishonest that they need to destroy a show with the CLASS of
BSG. I can't say I'm surprised though.

[Jerry Vasilatos]

Originally Posted by antelope526

A little off subject but Jerry picked a gem into seeing the mind set of Richard Hatch. Here is something from the early days of Galactica and what do we see:

Richard Hatch was known even then for his temperment. I think we all know what the "I'm impatient" quote implies. Hatch thought the role of Apollo was too limited and narrow and had a similar opinion of Staw Wars. It looks like he only came around because of money not the role.

At the time Hatch was a fairly successful proven actor coming off Streets of San Francisco and near the peak of his career. It appears at that time he was more concerned that parts were not good enough for him and that fans were a burden. Definitely someone with a big (inflated) ego.

What does this mean today:

If Richard Hatch is the same man, nothing Moore or anyone else (like Desanto) will offer will be good enough for him unless he is definitely the star!

If on the other hand Richard Hatch has a big ego that suffered from deflation (which his book series, continuation efforts, and convention appearances may imply---reaching for his past glory) he may be wanting very badly to be back on television in something more than a cameo but too proud to admit it.

Ummmm..... Antelope?

You couldn't be farther from the truth, and your choosing to mine little nuggets of information like this to suit your agenda says volumes.

"Fans a burden?" Now you are REALLY talking out of your ass. I know Richard personally, and he has done more to connect with fans than most actors I know. He coordinated Galacticon because NO ONE ELSE WAS DOING ANYTHING to celebrate the 25th anniversary. And you have the nerve to malign him in this way? "Impatient?" Not from my experience. He's a perfectionist, that's for certain. In my opinion that's the mark not only of an artist, but of a highly talented individual.

Richard's agenda has nothing to do with his own ego or demands. As one who knows the details and stories firsthand from having the benefit of being friends with him, his "agenda", if that's what anyone can call it, has been to serve the fans because he too, is a fan himself. When "Galactica" lay stagnant and dormant, he put up his own money to produce a trailer that would show the powers that be that "Galactica" still had life in it. In many ways, I don't think "Galactica" would ever have been bastardized the way it has been had it not been for his sincere efforts to get the franchise back up on it's feet, at which point other forces (Bonnie Hammer at Sci-Fi) decided to to remake it in a way that the majority of fans of the original show could not understand when it was so clear how it should have proceeded with the benefit of Richard's, Glen's and Tom DeSanto's vision. Richard is friends with Tom and was going to be a part of his CONTINUATION before the plug got pulled. Quit maligning Richard to serve your agenda. Those of us here who know him personally laugh at what you "think" you know or perceive. Quite frankly, I myself am getting sick and tired of people like you trashing him. Here's a newsflash: Richard INVITED Moore to Galacticon out of respect for him an artist, against the wishes of many hardcore fans who felt what Moore was doing was a slap in the face of what the original series was. Richard has also stated he'd be happy to entertain offers to appear on the new Galactica, but not in some lame "walk-on" part designed to lure in old fans with stunt casting. He'd like to play something that challenged him as an actor and was well written. I doubt he'll get that chance given what Moore's done with it, and personally given the lack of respect Moore has for fans of the original series and the contempt he seems to have for anyone from the original, he doesn't deserve for Richard or Dirk or anyone to grace his program with their talents.

Your bashing my friend is offensive. Quit it. All you are doing is showcasing your own inflated ego and quite frankly, I'm not impressed.

JV

[Boomer65]

Originally Posted by Jerry Vasilatos

Boomer, it's funny, you ignore the sentance following your focus on "similarities" that I have already debated as common "archetypes" in all fiction:

Not at all – I agreed with it in fact – I don’t respond to everything that I agree with. I didn’t find anything in the article that I disagreed with to be honest. Also, believe it or not, I never understood how BSG could be accused of ripping off SWs. Sure they had similarities but then SW had similarities to a score of familiar themes – e.g. the stormtroopers can easily be compared to the WWII German soldiers, with the imperial guard being the Nazi’s SS troops.

I do not look at Starbuck and think of Han Solo. They are two completely diffferent characters. Nor do I look at Cylons and think stormtroopers, aside from the surface issue that they both wear armor.

That’s great. But realize that others do see the similarities than they aren’t just “lovers of the mini” nor are they necessarily “tearing apart” TOS.

Originally Posted by antelope526

At the time Hatch was a fairly successful proven actor coming off Streets of San Francisco and near the peak of his career. It appears at that time he was more concerned that parts were not good enough for him and that fans were a burden. Definitely someone with a big (inflated) ego.

I can’t say whether he had a big ego or not but I definitely think he has talent to act. I thought he was great in Dead Man’s Curve. It’s a shame we haven’t seen him and Benedict on screen more often. Actually, I think he had the best shot of breaking out of the BSG stereotype of the two.

[Gemini1999]

Originally Posted by repcisg

One piece of false information stated in the article above is that Larson walked off with John Dykstra. By Dyksta's own words, the star Wars project was done and he was looking for another project. His new camera methods needed further development and Battlestar provided the funding for him to go forward. While filming Battlestar Galactica he remained under contract to do another Star Wars movie if one was planned. He left Universal to do The Empire Strikes Back.

Repisg -

Sorry, this is a glaring error.... John Dykstra did not do the special effects for The Empire Strikes Back. That job was given to Brian Johnson - who was also responsible for the wonderful SFX that were seen in the British Sci-Fi TV series Space:1999 and who also worked on SFX for the 60's Anderson TV series Thuderbirds under the name of Brian Johncock.

I just thought that you should know...

Respectfully,
Bryan
________
Penny Stock

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Jerry Vasilatos

Ummmm..... Antelope?

You couldn't be farther from the truth, and your choosing to mine little nuggets of information like this to suit your agenda says volumes.

"Fans a burden?" Now you are REALLY talking out of your ass. I know Richard personally, and he has done more to connect with fans than most actors I know. He coordinated Galacticon because NO ONE ELSE WAS DOING ANYTHING to celebrate the 25th anniversary. And you have the nerve to malign him in this way? "Impatient?" Not from my experience. He's a perfectionist, that's for certain. In my opinion that's the mark not only of an artist, but of a highly talented individual.

Richard's agenda has nothing to do with his own ego or demands. As one who knows the details and stories firsthand from having the benefit of being friends with him, his "agenda", if that's what anyone can call it, has been to serve the fans because he too, is a fan himself. When "Galactica" lay stagnant and dormant, he put up his own money to produce a trailer that would show the powers that be that "Galactica" still had life in it. In many ways, I don't think "Galactica" would ever have been bastardized the way it has been had it not been for his sincere efforts to get the franchise back up on it's feet, at which point other forces (Bonnie Hammer at Sci-Fi) decided to to remake it in a way that the majority of fans of the original show could not understand when it was so clear how it should have proceeded with the benefit of Richard's, Glen's and Tom DeSanto's vision. Richard is friends with Tom and was going to be a part of his CONTINUATION before the plug got pulled. Quit maligning Richard to serve your agenda. Those of us here who know him personally laugh at what you "think" you know or perceive. Quite frankly, I myself am getting sick and tired of people like you trashing him. Here's a newsflash: Richard INVITED Moore to Galacticon out of respect for him an artist, against the wishes of many hardcore fans who felt what Moore was doing was a slap in the face of what the original series was. Richard has also stated he'd be happy to entertain offers to appear on the new Galactica, but not in some lame "walk-on" part designed to lure in old fans with stunt casting. He'd like to play something that challenged him as an actor and was well written. I doubt he'll get that chance given what Moore's done with it, and personally given the lack of respect Moore has for fans of the original series and the contempt he seems to have for anyone from the original, he doesn't deserve for Richard or Dirk or anyone to grace his program with their talents.

Your bashing my friend is offensive. Quit it. All you are doing is showcasing your own inflated ego and quite frankly, I'm not impressed.

JV

JV thank you for your thoughts. I think you are right on the money with
your thoughts on Richard Hatch. How sad that some people who CLAIM
to be a fan of the original BSG ..........are so intent on sabatoging it with
these attacks.

[Boomer65]

Your bashing my friend is offensive. Quit it. All you are doing is showcasing your own inflated ego and quite frankly, I'm not impressed.

And your open hostility is equally as offensive and sad. It’s a TV show! Or are you that far gone?!?!

Originally Posted by shiningstar

thank you for your thoughts. I think you are right on the money with
your thoughts on Richard Hatch. How sad that some people who CLAIM to be a fan of the original BSG ..........are so intent on sabatoging it with these attacks.

Oh and Thank You shiningstar – I’m so glad that you’ve established that the only “true” fans are those that say nothing negative about the series and its actors. That’s pathetic and sad. Oh, and thanks for leveling oblique criticisms by way of other’s posts - very creative. It’s a TV show!

It’s funny how when pro-mini people start to get angry with TOS folks that we get posts like, “Let’s respect other people’s opinions…” and “Hey now, none of that here…” But when TOS folks (and I know this isn’t everyone) post openly hostile messages like Jerry’s and indirect attacks like shiningstars it’s “<silence>”. What? Is it only okay to say that the mini is unmitigated trash but saying that TOS had major problems is tantamount to a crime punishable by burning (to some, not all)? What’s the double standard here?

I don’t normally make posts like this but your condescending, sarcastic, and downright juvenile behavior *over a TV show* is pathetic.

[Jerry Vasilatos]

Originally Posted by Boomer65

And your open hostility is equally as offensive and sad. It’s a TV show! Or are you that far gone?!?!


Oh and Thank You shiningstar – I’m so glad that you’ve established that the only “true” fans are those that say nothing negative about the series and its actors. That’s pathetic and sad. Oh, and thanks for leveling oblique criticisms by way of other’s posts - very creative. It’s a TV show!

It’s funny how when pro-mini people start to get angry with TOS folks that we get posts like, “Let’s respect other people’s opinions…” and “Hey now, none of that here…” But when TOS folks (and I know this isn’t everyone) post openly hostile messages like Jerry’s and indirect attacks like shiningstars it’s “<silence>”. What? Is it only okay to say that the mini is unmitigated trash but saying that TOS had major problems is tantamount to a crime punishable by burning (to some, not all)? What’s the double standard here?

I don’t normally make posts like this but your condescending, sarcastic, and downright juvenile behavior *over a TV show* is pathetic.

Boomer-

Condescending and sarcastic? What have I said that is hostile? I'm not expressing an opinion in my post to Antelope about Richard. I'm setting him or her straight on something they know nothing about and defending a friend from a personal attack.

As far as the remake goes and everyone needing to point out the "major problems" the original had to defend what Moore and Sci-Fi have done as well as maligning one of the principal actors of the original is what I find juvenile and pathetic behavior.

JV

Apollo played by Richard Hatch was my favorite character from TOS. I am sure the acting ability of Richard Hatch was no small part of that.

Frankly I was surprised by your original post I referenced. I do not know Richard Hatch personally. I had NO opinion or knowledge of him as a person until I started reading articles and interviews by or about him during the last few months.

After reading the interviews and articles on him I saw in my opinion a man angry at the current situation, something I believe can be said for a large percentage of all the Battlestar Galactica fan base. I also read of a man who is not happy with the Desanto continuation primarily because of its minimization of the TOS characters. I read of a successful author who focuses his efforts on his most successful series. I read of a man who goes to convention after scifi convention and is an organizing force in some. This person loves/needs the adoration of fans.

Your quote was like a bolt of lightning hitting me on him. Now it all made sense:

Richard Hatch was a reluctant Apollo. He really was not impressed with the Galactica theme or it appears scifi in general. He thought he was too good to play the role or the genre. He was offered a higher salary than he expected so he took the role anyway. He was already a star and woman loved him thanks to his soap opera roles and The Streets of San Fransisco. He was hounded by people telling him how great he was. Battlestar Galactica did better than his wildest dreams. He became a superstar. The fan adorment of him went to the stratosphere. He couldn't go to a restaurant without being bothered. He really wished to get his normal life back. Normal meant -- people do what I want, I get what I want, and I can still roam around at least halfway free.

Then suddenly Battlestar Galactica ended after just one season. At first he was probably happy. At first he was probably too good for the next roles he was offered. As a little time passed suddenly he wasn't offered any roles. He was a former star known to be abrasive. He started to live life like everyone else and realized...he didn't like it. He wanted to be "Apollo" again. So he devoted himself to writing some Battlestar books to get the concept and his name back in the public eye. He missed the fan adoration once it dissappeared so he started going to scifi conventions and became an organizer in things Galactica. Of course all these appearances helped to sell more of his books. To some extent he was able to recapture a little of what he lost.

He still hoped to return as Apollo to television. He even mortgaged his home to pay for the trailer in the hope of coming back. Finally someone was willing to make Battlestar again but they did not want him. That was like a kick in the gut. Richard Hatch sees his star's shine slowly disappearing. I am sure the quote on his site that used to say that he is not Richard Hatch from Survivor is killing him.

I hope this is not the man Richard Hatch is but it is the man I see in the articles. It is for this very reason I am very happy he appears to be letting go...finally...of Battlestar Galactica. The best thing he could do is make his War of Magellan. I hope it will make him into a successful producer of film. If it does he will finally be able to refocus his life in a direction that is positive for him. His continued reach for Battlestar will only leave him frustrated. I want nothing but the best for everyone I know. I think if he had a successful one episode appearance on the new series with a character that can't come back Richard Hatch may excise these issues from his life and help him to move on.

This is just my opinion so I don't want to argue it. I am sure everyone has their own. I know this is rough so I don't plan to respond to any arguments on this subject although I will be happy to read them. I was just surprised to read the original quote and it seemed to finally clear my thoughts on the man.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Boomer65

And your open hostility is equally as offensive and sad. It’s a TV show! Or are you that far gone?!?!


Oh and Thank You shiningstar – I’m so glad that you’ve established that the only “true” fans are those that say nothing negative about the series and its actors. That’s pathetic and sad. Oh, and thanks for leveling oblique criticisms by way of other’s posts - very creative. It’s a TV show!

It’s funny how when pro-mini people start to get angry with TOS folks that we get posts like, “Let’s respect other people’s opinions…” and “Hey now, none of that here…” But when TOS folks (and I know this isn’t everyone) post openly hostile messages like Jerry’s and indirect attacks like shiningstars it’s “<silence>”. What? Is it only okay to say that the mini is unmitigated trash but saying that TOS had major problems is tantamount to a crime punishable by burning (to some, not all)? What’s the double standard here?

I don’t normally make posts like this but your condescending, sarcastic, and downright juvenile behavior *over a TV show* is pathetic.

First of all I have ALWAY defended EVERYONE'S right to be here.
I agree with some posts and disagree with others and have Always
posted my opinion. If I happen to AGREE with someone else's post as
I DO with JV's I respond.

I do not like the mini. However I have NEVER said that the people who
like the MINI don't have the right to be here. I do however draw the line
when people LIE and attack the major stars of TOS as People have done
Here. JV who (unlike me) knows Hatch personally beat me to the punch
of defending him and YES I backed him UP and will continue to back up
anyone who is responding to the vicious attacks against the stars of
Tos.

WHile I do not like the mini ....... I have never said that the people
who do like the mini have no right to be here. As I have said in
NUMEROUS posts ............................I disagreed with their opinion
but said they had a right to it.

And for the record the LIES that you just posted about ME on this board
qualify as what you just SAID YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 'don't' do.

[Micheleh]

Originally Posted by antelope526

This is just my opinion so I don't want to argue it. I am sure everyone has their own. I know this is rough so I don't plan to respond to any arguments on this subject although I will be happy to read them. I was just surprised to read the original quote and it seemed to finally clear my thoughts on the man.

Well, your opinion is solid, well thought out, and totally inaccuarte, btw.

Really, though, if you are so interested in getting a take on the real man and his motives, go to a convention, walk up to him, and ask him. I have been to cons with him, and have never once seen him refuse to talk to anyone, even when he's exhausted or in a hurry.

What I'm saying is, see for yourself. Don't listen to the media or form an opinion based on articles- about anyone, really. I've posted a list of his appearances, so you can see when he'll be in your area. Until you meet the man, and can form your own opinion, all this declaration is insightful, and shows that you have a keen mind and can extrapolate a profile from scattered information, but from one who knows him personally, it's very off base. Give yourself the chance to find that out. (PS - I reccommend Dragoncon- it's a helluva party, oh boy!)

[warhammerdriver]

Originally Posted by Micheleh

go to a convention,

I'd love to go, but the problem with conventions is that they never seem to be held where a plane ticket and hotel reservations (not to mention using vacation time) are not required to attend. I, and I think that the vast majority of fandom, have more important things to spend my hard earned money and use my limited vacation time on.

Please don't take this personally, Michelle (you said that you're a convention organizer somewhere on this board). Too big a country, too few convention sites.

[larocque6689]

People

Some of your comments are valid, including discussion of Glen Larson's TV career, and speculating on the personal costs or motivations of Richard Hatch's investment in Galactica or his acting career.

All the same, cut Richard some slack.

I don't know Richard Hatch. Although I supported Richard's efforts to bring back Galactica, I was never a full-blown Hatch supporter, and respectfully disagreed with those who wanted to base a BSG upon his novels (Commander Apollo doesn't hold a lot appeal to me). But I think the broad outline of Richard's vision is something shared by a great many fans of the original series. I've learned over the years to give the guy a lot of respect, and found his remark poignant in a recent interview that he was in love with "somebody else's woman" (BSG). Never develop a passion for something that is not yours because the loss will hurt you even harder when it slips away.

I really feel for him. I don't think anybody has raised the Galactican profile higher in the past decade than Richard Hatch, and he's received the reluctant acknowledgement from the other main players in the revival drama. In some respects, Richard has functioned as a "voice of conscience", reminding them of what Galactica was, is and could be. I sometimes wonder if Richard is forcing us to envision Galactica as someting better than what it originally was.

Hatch was not the only player in the BSG revival saga of the past ten years, but his was one of the most important because his was the most connected with the actual fans. I watched this relationship evolve over the years, from reluctant acceptance to that of generous support.

There were other players. I've always related to the more stoic and philosophical Dirk Benedict. For him it was a great blessing as well as another acting gig. One of Galactica's number one "fanboys" Tom Desanto very nearly pulled it off several years ago. Glen Larson still holds a few cards in the deck and he will be a key player if Desanto gets a second turn at bat or another new player emerges.

You'll find at ColonialFleets many people who have worked with, or have known, Richard Hatch, over the years. He has inspired loyalty in the friends he has made. I've read their comments, and it's impacted my own opinion of Richard Hatch - both the man, the actor and the Battlestar Galactica fan.

There's nothing which says that you have to agree with the "Richard Hatch" vision of Battlestar. But I think he deserves some respect all the same.

[monolith21]

I've never heard that Richard didn't like the show...where did you get that antelope? I've met the man a few times now and seen his presentations at Comic Con and he's quite passionate about BSG. He's also one of the most approachable people you'll ever meet. I mean it seems unlikely that the person you described would write books, fund his own trailer, and attend as many conventions as Richard Hatch does. I think you're way off base here and maybe even a bit out of line. I don't mean to come down on ya man, but Richard has done more for BSG than just about anyone.

Also, I think it's important throgh all of these "Star Wars" comparisons to point out that anything beyond the look of BSG being similar is kind of a moot point. Larson had the idea for BSG as far back as the 60's. Star Wars just cleared the way. Not to many networks were going for Sci Fi programming back then. I guess I'm missing the whole point here...

What is the point? Do similarities cheapen the original or somehow elevate the mini? Is this a "Why Battlestar Galactica sucks" conversation? It seems that people are really tearing each other down with little or no reason. We're fans aren't we? If not...why come here?

-Mark

[Dawg]

Exactly, Mark, we're all fans and that's why we're here.

Obviously, we all owe a debt of thanks to Richard Hatch - and I for one am extremely grateful for the posts by the people who know him personally to put our minds at ease about his motivations regarding BSG. Through his efforts (his trailer, his books, his personal appearances), he has been a big factor in keeping BSG alive, enough so that we have the mini, and a chance at a TOS-based movie.

Richard!

And to the folks here, too.

I am
Dawg

[LadyImmortal]

OK, let me give my opinion on Richard here.

I think he's fantastic. And no, I'm not a personal friend of his either.

I've seen Richard (counts mentally) at three different conventions now. Two Dragoncons and at Galaticon. He was nothing but nice, graceful (funny!) and kind. There were two times he was very nice to me, personally.

The first time I went to Dragoncon I had one hell of a day with flights. My flight leaving from Chicago got cancelled (without any notice to me, btw and no, there was no weather - at all). It took me six hours to get to Atlanta when it should have only taken two at the most.

I got to the convention about fifteen minutes before the Exhibition Hall closed - but I HAD to meet Richard. It took me all fifteen minutes to find his booth and he was VERY nice to me. He signed a book, some pictures, and got the organizers of the convention to give him an extra five minutes with me - simply because I'd had a very bad day already and he wanted to make it better. I went to ALL of his talks - this was before he thought of doing his own trailer, in fact (but the first book was out).

Everytime I went by his booth he was nice to me, especially. Considerate. Not at all what I consider to be 'starlike'. He was very much 'just a guy'.

I met him the next year too - this was the year of the 20th Reunion and he was only there for two days but those were two great days. (Oh at Dragoncon - I couldn't go to the 20th). I was at the mall across from the convention getting lunch with my friends (there were six of us) and we met him there. He talked to us - he remembered me from the year before. He was nice again, took pictures (teased me horribly, lol - and jokingly called me his 'Stalker').

Everytime I met him then he was gracious. I KNOW when he had his first panel that he was completely blown away by the fact that it was standing room only... you could see it on his face that he was shocked there were so many people there...

Everything he's done he's done for us. His fans. Sure he might get something out of in the end but he KNOWS he wouldn't have a leg to stand on if it weren't the fans and, as a voice at Dragoncon, we told him what we wanted - the show to come back with the original cast and themes of the show. (Remember, this was 1998).

Anyway, I consider Richard to be a truly awesome guy who puts the fans first. I always will.

--Rhonda