The Second Coming Story

[nccdee]

I have heard about the trailer but what is the story? I mean, what is it about? Is there a script I can read? I looked for it at other BG websites but have not found anything.

nccdee

I have not seen it myself yet I am Looking forward to seeing it shown at my convention in Chicago by Richard he tells me he is also going to show a making of the Trailer video anyway if know one else can tell you send me a PM after the show and I will.

DG Promotions
http://dg-promotions.5u.com/galactica.htm

[jewels]

I saw it 3 or 4 times in one weekend, but I was sleep deprived so someones going to have to correct this:

It was shot in 1999 so the timeframe was set 20 years after the Hand of God. The colonials had stopped for a rest and rebuilt their civilization to some extent on a planet called New Kobal. The Cylons had ceased chasing them some years before that, Baltar returns to warn Apollo that the Cylons had evolved and there had been a civil war. The newer, fiercer Cylons had won and were now once again directing their energy to bringing order to the universe and were seeking their old foe: the human race. Apollo and the older warriors have to bring a new generation of Warriors up-to-speed and get their civilization prepared to flee to the stars and rejoin the quest for Earth. They'd developed a faster better viper, the Scarlet Viper. Those Pilots wore a burgundy and black warrior jacket.

It was a little grittier than TOS but still held tight to it's feel, story and elements and I think you could have brought your kids. The people that contributed to it varied from fans that brought their own costumes, to Terry Carter, John Colicos, and Jack Stauffer from the old series, to other working actors. One of the costume designers posts here occasionally, some of the FX shots that Foundation Imaging used in their Demo for DeSanto were in this too. The director of photography from Jurassic Park was the main cinematographer (Dean....forget the last name).

Jewels

[nccdee]

Thanks you Jewels for the description.

I would have like to seen John Colicos in his last performance. I really love seeing him revive his Kor character for Deep Space Nice. He will be missed.

It does sound like a very interesting story.

FYI Jewels, I do appreciate your post at Sci-Fi. I enjoyed BGS when I was kid and watching the mini has gotten me back in the BG universe.

nccdee

If my information is correct the making of trailer has more of John I know there was more footage filmed than was used I will know when I see it. This is bad my own show and I have to sneak off to watch a trailer.

DG Promotions
http://dg-promotions.5u.com/galactica.htm

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by jewels

I saw it 3 or 4 times in one weekend, but I was sleep deprived so someones going to have to correct this:

It was shot in 1999 so the timeframe was set 20 years after the Hand of God. The colonials had stopped for a rest and rebuilt their civilization to some extent on a planet called New Kobal. The Cylons had ceased chasing them some years before that, Baltar returns to warn Apollo that the Cylons had evolved and there had been a civil war. The newer, fiercer Cylons had won and were now once again directing their energy to bringing order to the universe and were seeking their old foe: the human race. Apollo and the older warriors have to bring a new generation of Warriors up-to-speed and get their civilization prepared to flee to the stars and rejoin the quest for Earth. They'd developed a faster better viper, the Scarlet Viper. Those Pilots wore a burgundy and black warrior jacket.

It was a little grittier than TOS but still held tight to it's feel, story and elements and I think you could have brought your kids. The people that contributed to it varied from fans that brought their own costumes, to Terry Carter, John Colicos, and Jack Stauffer from the old series, to other working actors. One of the costume designers posts here occasionally, some of the FX shots that Foundation Imaging used in their Demo for DeSanto were in this too. The director of photography from Jurassic Park was the main cinematographer (Dean....forget the last name).

Jewels

Thank you so much for the description Jewels. I think I would have
liked that VERSION far, far better then the 'mini'

[Stray Viper]

I may be wrong, but there wasn't too much of a story fleshed out for the Second Coming. It was just a short trailer intended as a "proof of concept" was it not? Just to show the Big Honchos that this could be good ... very good. If the sell was made, then they could have moved forward with a studio and moved on with a more detailed, complete story.

At least that's the way I understood it.

[Stray Viper]

It still gets me how much Richard Hatch sacrificed to make this thing, and it amazes me he's not bitter about the fact that it fell through.

[shiningstar]

Actually it hasn't fallen through.
The trailer was a huge hit at the conventions.


Until people admit they are defeated ...... They'll never fail.

Don't forget about a certain Republican actor/governor who people
said would never be elected President. He was elected and re-elected.
And that was by a very LARGE majority.

[dvo47p]

Originally Posted by nccdee

I have heard about the trailer but what is the story? I mean, what is it about? Is there a script I can read? I looked for it at other BG websites but have not found anything. nccdee

Here is an edited cut for this actress,
[ http://www.athenademos.tv/video.html ] it's a clip of Hatch's Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming. You will notice the gritty stuff jewels posted about, also. I put the address so you could pick to your modem's speed.

Ps. There is a clip floating around re: the Pegasus, Cain took on two Basestar's & lived! Check out www.battlestarpegasus.com > The guy that runs it was the fellow that I got started me fired up with REVIVAL.

[shiningstar]

Dvo thanks for posting the links!

[nccdee]

Thanks dvo.

nccdee

Correct me if I'm wrong. I am still new to the continuation concepts. The Second Coming with Richard Hatch is a separate effort than the Desantos Continuation? The Desanto Continuation is based on a generation later still in Space still looking for Earth (Battlestar 1980 plot prior to arrival at Earth?). The main characters in Desantos version would be the children of the original characters, for example a 20-30 year old Boxey etc.

If the above is true and people like the idea of "The Second Coming" I don't see a whole lot of difference between the start of "The Second Coming" and the mini. I see previous cylon war, society now at peace, horrible cylons return, flee into space. I wonder if Richard Hatch made the mini, Colonel Adama of the mini was Colonel Boxey, Boxey's son was Lee Adama, Starbuck and Cassiopeia had a granddaughter named Kara, and Caprica was called New Kobol if everyone would be happy. Just a thought what a difference a few names and two minutes of explained history would make. I bet even the female "Starbuck" haters would come around if they learned Kara's call sign is out of respect for her deceased Grandfather.

Maybe the second coming is here but we don't want to see it. The second coming is a bit grittier than TOS...I wonder if that means "dark and reimagined" in SCIFI speak.

[Dawg]

Antelope, if that had been the case there might not be such the animosity generated over the past year.

First things first: the Hatch effort predates the DeSanto effort, and they are not related, except that both ignore Galactica 1980. (BTW, that was the title - "Battlestar" wasn't part of it at all). TSC portrayed Apollo as Commander of the Galactica, the DeSanto effort would have had the Galactica commanded by a grown-up Boxey (now called Orin). Go to www.cylon.org, Sci-Fi on TV, and the Galactica section and you'll find an extensive write-up on all the incarnations.

If Moore had actually done as you suggest (the Kara Thrace character being Starbuck's granddaughter, etc.), he would have stayed much truer to the TOS universe than he ever had any intention of doing. Instead, he remade "In Harm's Way" (remember?). He totally threw away the TOS universe. The characters may have wound up in similar emotional states, but they aren't characters from Saga.

So, no, this new universe is in no way "The Second Coming" or anything resembling the DeSanto story. But go read the info at CA - you'll find it fascinating.

I am
Dawg

[shiningstar]

In the Mini .... Baltar was a sleazy computer genious who gave up the secrets
of the defense system for what he 'thought' was a human corporate spy .......

In the Original BSG ........... Baltar was a member of the council of twelve who
held a seal of Kobol and who betrayed humanity because he wanted to RULE them.

In the mini ........... the cylons were created by the humans and returned
in order to destroy them. Also Minorites were practically demoted to
cylons spies or simply 'extras' to fill in extra space when required. There
were no strong minorites on the bridge ....... with the exception of
Boomer who instead of being black was now female, asian and a cylon.

In the original .......... the cylons were created by a reptilian race called the
cylons. The race was extinct but the machines with a prime motive to kill
and exterminate the humans remained.

In the Mini .......... Adama Lied to the people and told them he KNEW
where Earth was in order to instill hope in the people and lead them out
of harms way. In the mini ........ the woman characters were little
more then stereotypes .... with the exception of SIX who made from
what I was told an excellent Villan. There were NO Blacks in major
roles and other then Adama Lieing to his own people literally no
reference to Earth.

In the Original ............... Adama had some inkling that Earth Existed.
Although he wasn't too certain of it's location he didn't lie to his own
people. He told the truth that they were Looking for Earth because
it was Humanities' last hope. Also, In the original .............all the cultures
of Earth were included in making BSG. There were strong character's,
Men and Women alike who helped to make this series a success. Practically
all minorities were represented somewhere. Cultures that were represented
included the book of Morman, Hebrew, toltec, mayen, Islam ..........and many
many others. The strong woman included two in the military on on the bridge
and the other in the cock pit of a viper, a former socialator (prostitute), and
including even women on the council of twelve. The bridge crew included
Colonel TIgh who was BLACK, sober and a very, very strong character in his own right, Commander Adama who was not wishy washy in his command but
made his decisions decisively with an even handed fairness that was to be
admired, the viper pilots were Starbuck (who was an orphan and a MALE)
and who didn't have to resort to violence simply because he disagreed
with someone ....... unlike Kara Thrace ........ he respected the chain of
command and the officers with whom he served as well as his commanding
officers, BOomer who was Black, male and HUMAN, Jolly white male, bojay white male, and yes Apollo who was Married to Serina Boxey's mother who was also a strong female character in her own right and a warrior who was killed by a cylon.


Also in the Mini ............ violance and wanton sex made this 'movie'
inappropiate for my children to watch.

In the BSG ............... the writers relied on the plot line in order
to move the story along without having to resort to such inappropiate
subject matter. This show was well written and very suitable not
only for adults to watch but children as well.

Ron Moore took a series that was a certified hit that reached over
67 million people and turned it into a stereotype peyton place in
space that reached all of 4,000,000.000 homes .....if he even
reached that many... and he calls 'that' a success.

That is why the fans of the Original BSG are so angry.

Now if people are fans of the mini that's fine and dandy with
me ...........just don't ask me to like something like that .......
cause I don't.

I see the Desanto story being a true continuation. I just see what I read of The Second Coming as more of a restart with some original characters around to give it the mythos. I'm not saying the mini is the second coming I just see a lot of similarities in the concept. I don't think Moore, Desanto, or Hatch come up with their ideas in a vacuum. I even notice that human-cylons were introduced for the first time in Battlestar 1980. I already suspect Moore is well versed in TOS despite being coy on the subject early on. I bet Moore read Hatch and Desantos work also. As we can tell from "In Harm's Way" he has a penchant for adapting other people's work. Everything old is new again. It's just the more I learn the less I find that Moore is out of bounds compared to the ideas already floated by others. Moore seems to have inspiration from Larson, Hatch, and Preminger not to mention who else that isn't obvious. If Battlestar 1980 went to a second season I wonder if the human cylon issues would have been the center of the series. It would have been a lot better than the time travel issues they based most of that series on. Unfortunately even Larson was able to butcher the Galactica mythos without the help of Moore or SCIFI.

I just wonder how much anger is a result of how the mini was marketed as opposed to the script. I also am sure some of the driving force behind "Apollo" commanding the Galactica in a Hatch version is because Richard Hatch would be playing the role. Give Edward Olmos the role instead and I bet people wouldn't be so fired up. If Richard Hatch was retired nobody would be mad at such a scenario.

I just think people are more mad by what the original names represent to them than the characters written in this or any other Galactica script.

I like TOS but think there are more strong female roles in the mini. President Roslin is much stronger character than Siress Tinia, the females on the bridge crew were one step above radio operators, the black characters on the show had no female relationships but were sidekicks to powerful white men. In the case of Boomer he was more a sidekick to a sidekick. Don't let anger cloud your judgement. The black female on the mini Galactica has already had more scenes than Rigel in the entire TOS series. No females were shown in the Galactica launch bay working on vipers. Callie you've come a long way baby. They had 22 episodes to give Tigh or Boomer a love interest in TOS to no avail. I wouldn't judge the Moore version on the pilot.

[nccdee]

Shiningstar you made good points.

New Baltar, believeable and works for me. (Just take a look at executives at Tyson and Enron or the Boeing scandal involving a new hired retire Air Force Major).

Cylons: same mission, different beginning. Still works, kill humans, survivor are on the run. We have not heard the new Cylons speak (CGI version) but I hope they are similar in sound to the TOS.

Adama and Earth: Based on a lying? Adama lied about knowing were Earth is located (and maybe he does not believe it exist) but it creates the same objected, run from the Cylons/find Earth.

Minorities: The President is a women, that's a start. We will still have to wait until the series about the new council. Also, we will to wait for other characters (the doctors in sickbay, new fighter squardons, scientist, engineers and so) to be added in the future.

Sex and Violence: You got me there. TOS family show, mini not. I like the fact she is toying with Baltar's mind but "sexual teasing" is a little too much and not really needed.

Religion: I would think the massacare with have the survivor turn more to their religion, which hopefully will be explored more when the series begins.

The mini is just the beginning. For all we know, there maybe semi-regulars who will be introduce later are. Look at the impact of the "Q" character for ST:NG (he appeared in only 7 episode). So the addition of minority characters in pivitol roles may still be there.

One little note: "...with the exception of SIX who made from
what I was told an excellent Villan". Does this mean you have not actually seen the mini (this is not an attack on you in any way, you seemed very well informed of the details of the mini)? Although I agree that minority characters were not given bigger role, I in no way saw them in any undignified way.

Now we have 13 episodes to see what Ron Moore's plan are.

nccdee

[Darth Marley]

Shiningstar, I am shocked, not by your views, but by the sheer length of that post.

That had to have set a record of some kind.

You should find more to say more often.

[shiningstar]

LOL Darth Marley

Sex and Violence: TOS Starbuck had as many lust scenes as anyone on the mini. What you can show on TV changed since 1978 however. If they remade TOS today I am sure I would have seen a bit more of Cassie in the Rising Star and in the steam bath in the launch tube. You had a main character at the beginning of TOS who was a hooker!

Other than the baby killing scene, which by the way is not on camera there has been no more violence than what was on TOS.

I loved both but I will not say TOS was something it isn't. I don't think that Starbuck, a two timing, smoker, drinker, and gambler is exactly the poster boy of family values.

[shiningstar]

For one thing The TOS didn't show Starbuck or any one else having a
virtual Hand job while in the 'office'. Also the only thing Starbuck
actually did ........was to kiss the girls. No one ever saw him actually
sleep with the girls...... or with any one or thing else for that matter.

The scenes with Starbuck left ALOT and I do mean
ALOT to the imagination. While Starbuck had his share of "ACTION", you
never actually saw it .............with the exception of alot of kissing ........there
was no Inappropiate touching that I had to explain to my children.

Perhaps the only scene in the entire series that would qualify as
remotely close to being inappropiate was when Starbuck and Cassiopia
were kissing in the launch tubes but they weren't doing much else
in the scenes that were not deleted from the actual show. And
yes .........I enjoyed Athena's 'sweet' revenge when
she pressed that little button.

As for Starbuck while he did smoke, drink and gamble he was always
there for his fellow warriors and friends and unlike Kara Thrace didn't
rush off to punch his superior officers in the face with little or no
cause.

[Boomer65]

Originally posted by shiningstar
For one thing The TOS didn't show Starbuck or any one else having a
virtual Hand job while in the 'office'.

shiningstar’s right. There was far too much gratuitous sex going on – if I want to watch Barbarella or Heavy Metal The Movie I’ll rent them from Blockbuster. Some of it was okay - I thought that the scene with Tyrol and Boomer was tastefully done but not over the top like most of the other scenes. That hand job thing was just plain dumb. I’m very surprised that it wasn’t cut.

Ron Moore took a series that was a certified hit that reached over 67 million people and turned it into a stereotype peyton place in space that reached all of 4,000,000.000 homes .....if he even reached that many... and he calls 'that' a success.

That’s not a fair comparison. Twenty-five years ago there was basically ABC, NBC, and CBS and that was just about it. Now you have Fox, TBS, AMC, USA, etc, etc, etc that divide up the pie. Twenty-five years ago, TOS was riding the Star Wars hype. From what I’ve read, TOS wouldn’t even have been made had it not been for SW. That boost doesn’t exist today. And finally, the execs at Skiffy also believe that the mini is worth a gamble and these guys aren’t there just to throw money away.

[shiningstar]

Good post Boomer.

[Raymar3d]

Hi,

"Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming" had approximately enough footage shot for it to be a complete episode.

If you have read Richard's novels, he put all the elements from his trailer in them. The story is essentially found in the novels, although he was able to expand the story considerably in 5 novels.

I had the priveledge of working with Richard on the trailer, and to this day, I think it is the best Battlestar Galactica project idea. (I also did the Celestra for the miniseries.)

It was a direct continuation of the original series. Galactica 1980 is not considered canon to this production, but possibly a vision or dream that Adama had on his deathbed. So, elements like "The Return of Starbuck" could still be part of the continuity, Boxey's real name being Troy, were kept for Richard's production.

BTW, George Murdock (Salik) also made an appearance in the trailer, with dialogue.

For the trailer, I created 3d cylons, created, then blew up the planet Kobol (it was not New Kobol, btw), did some rotoscoping, and chromakeying, flew a superbasestar over the ancient ruins of Eden, and did some viper animations.

If you want to see some images from the trailer, there are a few sites to visit:

http://www.richardhatch.com has a very nice article about it and some pictures.

http://www.demonslayers.com has my work, if you look in my gallery (click on "About Kenneth Thomson Jr.") you can find the 3d cylons, you can also see the Galactica Bridge if you visit my Galactica Newslink page (see the link below). You will also see a pic of Baltar on the Galactica bridge with me in uniform in the background. I redid a shot from the trailer as a test. (Okay, LOL, I wanted to be in it! Hehehehehe).

Mike McAdams website, BattlestarandBeyond has some great pics of the Galactica, and the other pics from the Technical Journal we did for Realm Press. Highly recommend viewing these!!!

Sincerely,

Ken Thomson Jr.

[bsg1fan1975]

Originally Posted by shiningstar

In the Mini .... Baltar was a sleazy computer genious who gave up the secrets
of the defense system for what he 'thought' was a human corporate spy .......

In the Original BSG ........... Baltar was a member of the council of twelve who
held a seal of Kobol and who betrayed humanity because he wanted to RULE them.

In the mini ........... the cylons were created by the humans and returned
in order to destroy them. Also Minorites were practically demoted to
cylons spies or simply 'extras' to fill in extra space when required. There
were no strong minorites on the bridge ....... with the exception of
Boomer who instead of being black was now female, asian and a cylon.

In the original .......... the cylons were created by a reptilian race called the
cylons. The race was extinct but the machines with a prime motive to kill
and exterminate the humans remained.

In the Mini .......... Adama Lied to the people and told them he KNEW
where Earth was in order to instill hope in the people and lead them out
of harms way. In the mini ........ the woman characters were little
more then stereotypes .... with the exception of SIX who made from
what I was told an excellent Villan. There were NO Blacks in major
roles and other then Adama Lieing to his own people literally no
reference to Earth.

In the Original ............... Adama had some inkling that Earth Existed.
Although he wasn't too certain of it's location he didn't lie to his own
people. He told the truth that they were Looking for Earth because
it was Humanities' last hope. Also, In the original .............all the cultures
of Earth were included in making BSG. There were strong character's,
Men and Women alike who helped to make this series a success. Practically
all minorities were represented somewhere. Cultures that were represented
included the book of Morman, Hebrew, toltec, mayen, Islam ..........and many
many others. The strong woman included two in the military on on the bridge
and the other in the cock pit of a viper, a former socialator (prostitute), and
including even women on the council of twelve. The bridge crew included
Colonel TIgh who was BLACK, sober and a very, very strong character in his own right, Commander Adama who was not wishy washy in his command but
made his decisions decisively with an even handed fairness that was to be
admired, the viper pilots were Starbuck (who was an orphan and a MALE)
and who didn't have to resort to violence simply because he disagreed
with someone ....... unlike Kara Thrace ........ he respected the chain of
command and the officers with whom he served as well as his commanding
officers, BOomer who was Black, male and HUMAN, Jolly white male, bojay white male, and yes Apollo who was Married to Serina Boxey's mother who was also a strong female character in her own right and a warrior who was killed by a cylon.


Also in the Mini ............ violance and wanton sex made this 'movie'
inappropiate for my children to watch.

In the BSG ............... the writers relied on the plot line in order
to move the story along without having to resort to such inappropiate
subject matter. This show was well written and very suitable not
only for adults to watch but children as well.

Ron Moore took a series that was a certified hit that reached over
67 million people and turned it into a stereotype peyton place in
space that reached all of 4,000,000.000 homes .....if he even
reached that many... and he calls 'that' a success.

That is why the fans of the Original BSG are so angry.

Now if people are fans of the mini that's fine and dandy with
me ...........just don't ask me to like something like that .......
cause I don't.

Well said. I agree with it all. The mini just wasn't my cup of tea even though I never watched. I had no desire to bother after seeing previews!

Thanks for the info Raymar3d.

On Shiningstars view of the sex in TOS versus the mini: I agree the sex in the mini is gratuitous. I wish it was toned down. I just wonder if TOS was made today and we had the exact same script how much more flesh we would have seen. In other words you can't compare the shown sex on the mini to the implied sex on TOS because television conventions have changed. They have had a few gratuitous near naked rubbing scenes on the new "Enterprise" that would be scandalous in the days of Star Trek TOS. It's the same story.

On the violence: Not one person in the mini is shown actually killed on camara except the cylon at Ragnar. A lot is implied but not shown. The horrific baby killing wasn't even shown which is why there is so much specualtion on what actually happened. Some people even speculated incorrectly that the baby was stolen not killed. The lasar shot to Serena in the back by the cylon in TOS and her agony prior to reaching hospital treatment that followed was worse than anything we have seen in the mini universe thus far.

Like you I enjoyed it when Athena got "that snake" in the launch tube although after Athena's conversation with Starbuck upon his return from battle in the initial attack she actually broke things off with him. When Starbuck met Cassiopeia, Athena was not his girlfriend. A good TOS lesson for women who go off half cocked on their boyfriends in a moment of stress, anger, or passion. Don't throw someone away and then get angry when they actually leave!

[shiningstar]

SHe didn't actually break things off with him .......what she actually said
was that she needed more time.

Bsg I agree with you about the Previews. After seeing them even if I hadn't
downloaded the script ...... I would have given it a big PASS as in FORGET IT.

[bsg1fan1975]

that's right! He was the one that kept coming back to her when he and Cassi were having troubles!

Baltar versus Baltar:

Who is sleazier:
TOS Baltar: Knowingly initiated the slaughtered of the humans on 11 of the 12 colonies in exchange for the enslavement of his own colony under his control. After being back stabbed by the cylons goes on to wage a personal vendetta war against the few surviving humans.

Mini Baltar: Gives military secrets to a female defense contractor in the hope she can win a government contract for her company during peacetime so he can get a piece of ass. He is either now insane because of the guilt he carries or a victim of an alien chip implant.

TOS Baltar: evil psychopath
Mini Baltar: Naive smart man who let his johnson do the thinking at the wrong time with the wrong woman.

TOS Baltar needs to be executed. The mini Baltar still has the chance to redeem himself if he isn't under cylon mind control.