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Old December 15th, 2006, 12:28 PM   #1
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Battlestar Galactica 1978 Who were the LORDS OF KOBOL?

It seems clear to me that in TOS, through Adama's referencing The Book of the Word, that the Colonials worship a single God. But they also seem to hold The Lords of Kobol is extreme high reverence.

Any thoughts about this???

And who thinks the Lords of Kobol are also the same angelic beings (Guardians???) on the Ships of Light???
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Old December 15th, 2006, 12:54 PM   #2
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I don't think it is clear, there's a deity called Sagan, but he could be one of the Lords.

Why do you keep using the Superman symbol on Galactica threads?
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Old December 15th, 2006, 01:10 PM   #3
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According to the reference in "Lost Planet of the Gods", about the Ninth Lord of Kobol, they appear to have been the leaders of the various groups on Kobol which made up the 13 tribes. I tend to think of them in similar terms as the Pharoahs of Egypt.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 01:36 PM   #4
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Superman/Smallville

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter noble
Why do you keep using the Superman symbol on Galactica threads?
I like Superman.

I guess it's kind of like my secondary Avatar....

I assumed that was okay since it is provided as an icon option....
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Old December 15th, 2006, 02:32 PM   #5
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bionicbob,

It's fine to use the Superman symbol but, using it as an "icon" is a little confusing.

Check the link:

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...splay.php?f=60

When it appears like that, it leads the reader to think that the thread is about "Superman".


As an alternative, if you like, incorporate it into a "Signature". We've had several members do that.



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Old December 15th, 2006, 03:02 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BST
bionicbob,

It's fine to use the Superman symbol but, using it as an "icon" is a little confusing.


When it appears like that, it leads the reader to think that the thread is about "Superman".


As an alternative, if you like, incorporate it into a "Signature". We've had several members do that.



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Okie dokie.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 08:14 PM   #7
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I'm kind of fuzzy on this myself.

Are the Lords of Kobol deities?

Or are they revered priests, say, like the Apostles?
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Old December 15th, 2006, 11:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
According to the reference in "Lost Planet of the Gods", about the Ninth Lord of Kobol, they appear to have been the leaders of the various groups on Kobol which made up the 13 tribes. I tend to think of them in similar terms as the Pharoahs of Egypt.
If this be so, BST, then who was the lord who lead the 13th tribe to Earth, and would the 13th tribe have a name akin to the 12 names of the 12 tribes.....something I read in regards to our musings here, is that there may be in actual fact, though due to precession in the Earth's wobble, we may see how the constellation of Ophiuchus has the sun passing in front of part of it's stars, as the sun passed through all the Zodiac costellations. Ophiuchus is between Scorpius and Sagittarius.

Now could this possible 13th Zodiac constellation be the name of the 13th Tribe...."Earthlings" just sounds dull, and doesn't hold any allure as the 12 tribes do, being named after the zodiac groups.
What do you gentlemen ponder on such speculations?
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Old December 15th, 2006, 11:57 PM   #9
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I always thought the Lords of Kobol were their rulers as BST said. I do believe they were akin to Priest/Kings. A leader, or leaders, with a foot (so to speak) in the spiritual realm and one in the political realm. Pharoah is a good example. Another might be the Japanese Emperors of old, revered as a diety and a leader.

An Earth example of using the word Lord to describe a leadership body would be The House of Lords in England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords That's my thinking anyway. Any thoughts?
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Old December 16th, 2006, 08:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionicbob
Okie dokie.
Do you mean o.k or are you now referencing the character fom "Beverly Hill Cop 3"

Far as the thread goes, this is probably one of the smartest questions of the series thats hardly ever asked. The Lords Of Kobol perhaps being the actual evolved 'beings' on The ships of light is one theory, but from mortals usual misunderstanding of things they see, i take it from the ancient Kobollians perspective of things they could be? But actually aren't in another respect.

The term could refer to many mythological God's in Kobollian/Colonial mythology. Or as said above they might've been mortals who were worshipped as gods similar to how the ancient Egyptians looked to their "Pharoahs" as gods in ancient Egyptian times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarika
If this be so, BST, then who was the lord who lead the 13th tribe to Earth, and would the 13th tribe have a name akin to the 12 names of the 12 tribes.....something I read in regards to our musings here, is that there may be in actual fact, though due to precession in the Earth's wobble, we may see how the constellation of Ophiuchus has the sun passing in front of part of it's stars, as the sun passed through all the Zodiac costellations. Ophiuchus is between Scorpius and Sagittarius.

Now could this possible 13th Zodiac constellation be the name of the 13th Tribe...."Earthlings" just sounds dull, and doesn't hold any allure as the 12 tribes do, being named after the zodiac groups.
What do you gentlemen ponder on such speculations?
Exactly why this element of the classic series made Galactica what it is. A fasinating piece of science fiction fantasy. That no current remake could outdo!

Had the series gone on, the Rag Tag fleet would have to retrace their ancestor's steps and figure out who they were before the journey to Earth could begin with a strong clue as to where they went in the large uncharted universe? The second season surely would've had episodes like "Lost Planet Of The Gods", where they'd find old relics of the 13th Tribe's journey or trail. As everything in the series was a throwback to our old and mysterious myths and legends of old, the references would've been to our early beginnings in our history and ask the questions of where we could've all descented from, but all these tales are told in space within the confines of Battlestar Galactica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjrakman
I'm kind of fuzzy on this myself.

Are the Lords of Kobol deities?

Or are they revered priests, say, like the Apostles?
Another great theory my friend!

They could be ancient Kobollian Kings, Wizards, Warlocks, Warlords, Knights, Guardians, Emperors, Pharoahs, Prophets, etc. "Lords" just being a very respectful term or title outside their general description of the role they had on Kobol.

Man has worshipped alot of so-called "deities" who were nothing but mortal men with titles and alot of power in history, so this is a fasinating subject matter that Galactica would've addressed somehow i reckon.

In mythology there is some truth behind the myth and legends. Just like how there was some truth metaphorically behind 'The Wizard of Oz', behind every curtain there is some truth lurking around!

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Old December 16th, 2006, 12:32 PM   #11
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Default Lightbulbs.....................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphs...star_Galactica)

Hypothesis;

http://www.b5tech.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240

CBSG Seraphs, Shadows, Vorlons, SG1 Ancients: they all exhibit the symptoms of being Lightbulbs.

Hyperevolved beings.

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Old December 16th, 2006, 03:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarika

Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
According to the reference in "Lost Planet of the Gods", about the Ninth Lord of Kobol, they appear to have been the leaders of the various groups on Kobol which made up the 13 tribes. I tend to think of them in similar terms as the Pharoahs of Egypt.
If this be so, BST, then who was the lord who lead the 13th tribe to Earth, and would the 13th tribe have a name akin to the 12 names of the 12 tribes.....something I read in regards to our musings here, is that there may be in actual fact, though due to precession in the Earth's wobble, we may see how the constellation of Ophiuchus has the sun passing in front of part of it's stars, as the sun passed through all the Zodiac costellations. Ophiuchus is between Scorpius and Sagittarius.

Now could this possible 13th Zodiac constellation be the name of the 13th Tribe...."Earthlings" just sounds dull, and doesn't hold any allure as the 12 tribes do, being named after the zodiac groups.
What do you gentlemen ponder on such speculations?
I'm not sure that it would have been "necessary" to have a "Lord of Kobol" lead the 13th tribe to Earth. In fact, it would have been politically impossible for the Lord of Kobol to give any type of official recognition to their decision. They were likely to have been viewed as "rebels" or "renegades" since they balked at following the other 12 tribes, who ultimately founded the Colonies. It's doubtful that the 13th tribe would have included any of the Kobollian hierarchy in their ranks.
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Old December 16th, 2006, 11:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBSG4ever
I always thought the Lords of Kobol were their rulers as BST said. I do believe they were akin to Priest/Kings. A leader, or leaders, with a foot (so to speak) in the spiritual realm and one in the political realm. Pharoah is a good example. Another might be the Japanese Emperors of old, revered as a diety and a leader.

An Earth example of using the word Lord to describe a leadership body would be The House of Lords in England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords That's my thinking anyway. Any thoughts?
Trés interesting CBSG4ever, I like your thinking here !
Certainly, the Pharoahs were Gods on Earth, or representatives of Gods On Earth. I think all ancient civilizations revered their Kings of old as Gods and leaders.

They were the ones to set the example of Godliness for their people, to bring Heaven down to Earth.

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Old December 17th, 2006, 01:40 AM   #14
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There is perhaps something else to ponder. There must have been a reason that the 13th tribe ventured off in an entirely different direction. I do not believe that it was ever explained in the series. Just that they set out on a different course. I wonder why?

Were they instructed to do so by the Beings of Light? Telling all the tribes that one needed to take another path for the sake of their survival. The BoL may have had knowledge of the future and knew the 13th tribe was humanity's "ace in the hole" so to speak? So when the Final Destruction took place, humanity would have a place to go and would have a chance to survive.

Were they political/social outcasts looking for some place better, much like the pilgrams did, to go where they could do...whatever...without being bothered by anyone? This one seems a bit unlikely to me but thought I would toss it out there. If they were outcasts, chances are (knowing human nature) they would not have gotten along with the other 12 tribes. Probably would have been some discord. History is sometimes written by the victors to favor them and their cause. If the 13th tribe were an outcast tribe, would history of the 12 colonies look unfavorably on the 13th tribe? I didn't get that impression from the show. More like a legend or fairytale for sure, but certainly not a negative or condescending one.

Does anyone have any other ideas, comments or thoughts? Just my .02 cubits.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 12:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBSG4ever
There is perhaps something else to ponder. There must have been a reason that the 13th tribe ventured off in an entirely different direction. I do not believe that it was ever explained in the series. Just that they set out on a different course. I wonder why?

Were they instructed to do so by the Beings of Light? Telling all the tribes that one needed to take another path for the sake of their survival. The BoL may have had knowledge of the future and knew the 13th tribe was humanity's "ace in the hole" so to speak? So when the Final Destruction took place, humanity would have a place to go and would have a chance to survive.

Were they political/social outcasts looking for some place better, much like the pilgrams did, to go where they could do...whatever...without being bothered by anyone? This one seems a bit unlikely to me but thought I would toss it out there. If they were outcasts, chances are (knowing human nature) they would not have gotten along with the other 12 tribes. Probably would have been some discord. History is sometimes written by the victors to favor them and their cause. If the 13th tribe were an outcast tribe, would history of the 12 colonies look unfavorably on the 13th tribe? I didn't get that impression from the show. More like a legend or fairytale for sure, but certainly not a negative or condescending one.

Does anyone have any other ideas, comments or thoughts? Just my .02 cubits.
Mon ami, you can throw your .02 cubits or more my way anytime....
But seriously...I always thought the 13th tribe were indeed a revered tribe among the 12 others, a myth and legend to follow, for their survival.
Cerainly not outcasts.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 06:46 AM   #16
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Well, let's see. From my take on watching the series, it was said that the Lords of Kobol were rulers of people. When Adama reads the inscription inside the pyramid, we see that their ancient civilization was very much like our Egytians, so we can speculate that the Lord of Kobol at the time was a human leader. THe closest thing would be the concept of the pharaoh, a god man on earth.

But let's also remember that in the series, the BOL tell Apollo and Starbuck that humans may evolve, so we can also speculate that the Lords of Kobol do become BOL after a time...this would also fit into Larson's Mormon theology of advancing in stature to become "god-like."
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Old December 18th, 2006, 10:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBSG4ever
There is perhaps something else to ponder. There must have been a reason that the 13th tribe ventured off in an entirely different direction. I do not believe that it was ever explained in the series. Just that they set out on a different course. I wonder why?
Hypothesis one;

Quote:
Were they instructed to do so by the Beings of Light? Telling all the tribes that one needed to take another path for the sake of their survival. The BoL may have had knowledge of the future and knew the 13th tribe was humanity's "ace in the hole" so to speak? So when the Final Destruction took place, humanity would have a place to go and would have a chance to survive.
Not all of the tribes, just the 13th. The LBs^1 grabbed a Moses and instructed him to go to Pharoah and tell him; "Let my people go!"

Hypothesis two;

Quote:
Were they political/social outcasts looking for some place better, much like the pilgrams did, to go where they could do...whatever...without being bothered by anyone? This one seems a bit unlikely to me but thought I would toss it out there. If they were outcasts, chances are (knowing human nature) they would not have gotten along with the other 12 tribes. Probably would have been some discord. History is sometimes written by the victors to favor them and their cause. If the 13th tribe were an outcast tribe, would history of the 12 colonies look unfavorably on the 13th tribe? I didn't get that impression from the show. More like a legend or fairytale for sure, but certainly not a negative or condescending one.
That is the tails to the coin. Neither hypothesis is exclusive to the other. In fact the two hyptheses mesh rather well and explain why the 13th tribe would defy the sitting Lord of Kobol and go running off by their lonesome to wander for forty generations...........................[There is a story there; hint, hint.]
Quote:
Does anyone have any other ideas, comments or thoughts? Just my .02 cubits.
Not a new idea, just dogpiling on the very good ones you presented.

^1 LBs; Lightbulbs.

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Old December 18th, 2006, 10:31 PM   #18
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No problem on the "dogpiling". It helps flesh things out. Thanks for the input and comments Damocles.

Something else. I do believe someone, either a member of the 13th tribe or a rep from the 9th Lord of Kobol, must have visited Earth prior to the Exodus from Kobol.

In "The Long Patrol" Adama teaches Boxey how to draw the solar system that contained the planet Earth. Adama obtained this info from the ancient writings. I see no other way Adama could do this, unless someone from Kobol had already been to Earth and back to chart the layout of Earth's solar system. It would've had to have been given to the 12 tribes/9th Lord to document what the system looked like (in some detail, I might add) for Adama to describe it. Or are we still talking the LBs again? Am I way off base on this premise? Ideas, comments & thoughts welcome.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 10:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles
Hypothesis one;



Not all of the tribes, just the 13th. The LBs^1 grabbed a Moses and instructed him to go to Pharoah and tell him; "Let my people go!"
That would explain why there were heiroglyphics about the 13th tribe leaving Kobol, in that tomb in LPotG on Kobol.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 11:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Hypothesis one;


Not all of the tribes, just the 13th. The LBs^1 grabbed a Moses and instructed him to go to Pharoah and tell him; "Let my people go!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
That would explain why there were heiroglyphics about the 13th tribe leaving Kobol, in that tomb in LPotG on Kobol.
Ah! I wasn't quite thinking along those lines exactly, but that is plausable and would make sense. Thanks for that bit of insight jewels.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 12:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBSG4ever
No problem on the "dogpiling". It helps flesh things out. Thanks for the input and comments Damocles.
I never poach on another's ideas, unless I can praise them and somehow contribute to their further evolution in my small way-and your ideas were very good. It got me to thinking about the Exodus in a new way.

Quote:
Something else. I do believe someone, either a member of the 13th tribe or a rep from the 9th Lord of Kobol, must have visited Earth prior to the Exodus from Kobol.
Scouting party from Kobol to find a new world; or did the LBs lead the 13th tribe along the way? Think biblical.
Quote:
In "The Long Patrol" Adama teaches Boxey how to draw the solar system that contained the planet Earth. Adama obtained this info from the ancient writings. I see no other way Adama could do this, unless someone from Kobol had already been to Earth and back to chart the layout of Earth's solar system. It would've had to have been given to the 12 tribes/9th Lord to document what the system looked like (in some detail, I might add) for Adama to describe it. Or are we still talking the LBs again? Am I way off base on this premise? Ideas, comments & thoughts welcome.
1. There is no doubt in my mind that Pharoah or his survivor(I don't think the 13th tribe left Kobol amicably) recorded the event along with whatever travel data that the 13th tribe used that the other twelve tribes could use to pursue them.

2. The LBs are my favorite source for the 13th tribe Exodus data. Its a VERY long way to Earth. Certainly it is longer than the short hop from Kobol to the Twelve Colonies of Man. The Kobolians, from the evidence I see, struck me as a stayhome bunch until their world "died". They certainly could have scouted for the Twelve Colonies from Kobol, but for Earth? Forget it. Its out of their search range. Only the LBs, or somebody like them[Iblis], have the REACH, or the astrography to know where to look for Earth or its environs.

3. I don't think the Cylons would want to find the 13th tribe. Remember relativity?

The Galactica received weak Apollo Moon Landing broadcasts. I always hypothesized that those signals were hundreds, if not thousands of years away from the Twelve Colonies of Man. [See (2.) for why.] Come to think about it, maybe Adama shouldn't be too eager to reach Earth, either. Suppose the 13th tribe has been digging around the Solar system and found out why they left Kobol in the first place?

Be kind of dangerous for the Colonials to stumble in on a 13th tribe with technology far in advance of their own and a recently discovered very good reason to use it.^1.



^1 Easily supportable by the fact that Galactica 1980 does not exist^2 in my interpretation of CBSG canon, as well as the real parameters of spacetime intervals that you have to postulate as functioning as a result of seen CBSG film canon.

^2 Just as I reject "Legend of the Rangers" as a JMS drug induced incident, so I reject "Galactica 1980" as an ABC induced torture session upon the American viewing public. I KNOW Rick Berman sat through the screenings, taking notes on how to wreck a Franchise so he could engage in his lifelong mission to destroy Star Trek(TM).

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Old December 20th, 2006, 12:54 PM   #22
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...^2 Just as I reject "Legend of the Rangers" as a JMS drug induced incident, so I reject "Galactica 1980" as an ABC induced torture session upon the American viewing public. I KNOW Rick Berman sat through the screenings, taking notes on how to wreck a Franchise so he could engage in his lifelong mission to destroy Star Trek(TM).

As always;
Gotta disagree with ya, there.

Not meaining to turn this in "other" directions, but the worst of TNG-sillyness all belonged to the "Great Bird", alone.

Berma-Drek (NOT a mis-spelling) started dropping the ball right about the time they went high and to the right, and far into La-la Land with the end of both DS9 and Voyager...I won't even start on "Enterprise" -- I'm climbing into the tub already after busting-keister in the garage, and I don't need to feel any dirtier than I already am.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 01:18 PM   #23
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Default Open a different thread in the "other science fiction" forum in this Forum.........

...............if we want to cover that subject.

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Gotta disagree with ya, there.

Not meaining to turn this in "other" directions, but the worst of TNG-sillyness all belonged to the "Great Bird", alone.

Berma-Drek (NOT a mis-spelling) started dropping the ball right about the time they went high and to the right, and far into La-la Land with the end of both DS9 and Voyager...I won't even start on "Enterprise" -- I'm climbing into the tub already after busting-keister in the garage, and I don't need to feel any dirtier than I already am.
The GBotG had his problems as he decayed into senility. I still blame Berman for Voyager, the worst parts of DS9 and I know he personally trained, he, who shall not be mentioned by name.

http://www.b5tech.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=3
[I'm something of an expert on that subject.]

So while I agree that Berman didn't get his filthy hands on Trek, until GreatBird was shuttled aloft as ash into a decaying orbit, I still blame him for his horrendous input into ST/TND from the fourth season forward, and I will always blame him for Bragga.

But back on topic; what do you think of my hypothesis that the 13th tribe may not have left Kobol with the warm fuzzies regarding the staybehinds, and that they forgott all about that part of their Colonial history when they lost their "memory", probably because the LBs arranged their "forgetting" it?

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Old December 20th, 2006, 08:15 PM   #24
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Another possibility may have been that, if their departure from Kobol was less than amicable, there may have been an agreement of sorts amongst those of the 13th tribe, to never speak of the past. This would have been carried on by subsequent generations and which could ultimately provide you with Earth dwelling descendants (of Kobol) who have no memory, written or otherwise, of their past prior to Earth.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 09:15 PM   #25
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I never poach on another's ideas, unless I can praise them and somehow contribute to their further evolution in my small way-and your ideas were very good. It got me to thinking about the Exodus in a new way.
Thank you for the compliment Damocles. I do appreciate it. I'm glad my ideas could be a source of inspiration for you or anyone else for that matter. As someone who has read some of your posts, I have come to respect your opinions and this means a great deal to me.
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Another possibility may have been that, if their departure from Kobol was less than amicable, there may have been an agreement of sorts amongst those of the 13th tribe, to never speak of the past. This would have been carried on by subsequent generations and which could ultimately provide you with Earth dwelling descendants (of Kobol) who have no memory, written or otherwise, of their past prior to Earth.
Now that makes a great deal of sense BST. Looking from the 12 tribes POV. They may have viewed the 13th as foolhearty and were more than accommodating in allowing the 13th to leave and in so doing, ridding themselves of a group that was such a pain in the astrum. Over time, this story could have evolved into a fairytale or fable of sorts.

I am curious about one thing. (I know...just one? ) In "Lost Planet of the Gods", Adama is reading the tablet in the tomb of the 9th LoK. It states the course the 13th took and then it shatters when the Cylons attack. I wonder what the rest of the tablet said. Did it give the reason why the 13th left and Adama just hadn't gotten to that part yet? I'm wondering if he had read it before the tablet broke, could that information have affected Adama's viewpoint concerning Earth and it being humanities salvation if the info was unfavorable? Just a thought.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 10:07 PM   #26
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As I recall, the Lords of Kobol were the rulers of Kobol from antiquity. I don't recall anything that said the Lords were individual tribal leaders, however. My impression was that they were cultural (or planetary) leaders.

But they were revered by contemporary humans as transcendant beings. My own opinion is that the Lords of Kobol are the BSG equivalent to the Saints of Christianity, or to the Prophets of any religion.

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Old December 20th, 2006, 11:20 PM   #27
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Quote:
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As I recall, the Lords of Kobol were the rulers of Kobol from antiquity. I don't recall anything that said the Lords were individual tribal leaders, however. My impression was that they were cultural (or planetary) leaders.

But they were revered by contemporary humans as transcendant beings. My own opinion is that the Lords of Kobol are the BSG equivalent to the Saints of Christianity, or to the Prophets of any religion.

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More speculation........thinking biblically...............

How about as the chosen sitting Judge of the People?
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ry/judges.html

Maybe the Seraphim [the LBs] picked each one out and guided each one of them as the sitting Lord of Kobol as well?

Which brings up the question of why did the LBs abandon the Kobolians just before their planet died, and not resume contact when the twelve tribes settled the Twelve Colonies of Man?

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Old February 5th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who were the LORDS OF KOBOL?

What better thread to resurrect than one about Lords of Kobol?

What about Sagan? Who exactly was Sagan? Was he a Lord of Kobol, as I've seen him referred to in fanfiction. Or could he have been Kobol's Messiah? Sagan's sake/Christ's sake. Lord Sagan/Lord Jesus. It's the parallels that started me wondering.
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Old February 6th, 2010, 01:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Who were the LORDS OF KOBOL?

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Old February 6th, 2010, 01:40 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who were the LORDS OF KOBOL?

The name and term itself is probably and rather blatantly obviously in reference to noted astronomer and astrophysicist, Carl Sagan!

Which is why the mythology of BG should've been touched upon moreso than the few sparce episodes wherein there was several of these hints to their ancestors like the Lords Of Kobol for instance (Ninth/9th Lord's Tomb in LPOTG's) Count Iblis comments in WOTG's etc. The untapped potential this series truly had.



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