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Old January 21st, 2004, 06:15 AM   #31
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"Today's Date in 'Galactica' History:"

January 21, 1979 - Part 2 of War of the Gods aired.

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Old January 21st, 2004, 09:02 AM   #32
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I wondered about that myself. After all they did do the shot where Iblis's true form was revealed, why not show the footage. I think it may have had something to do with the costumes not coming out the way they wanted it to look.
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Old January 22nd, 2004, 04:59 PM   #33
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I agree Bsg1fan1975. I think that the footage should have
been included.
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Old January 25th, 2004, 12:03 PM   #34
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Also the fact, said footage may no longer exist!

One of the reasons it maynot have reached the DVD release 25 years later. several other scenes shot for episodes, that were heard of didn't make the DVD deleted scenes section either.

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Old February 14th, 2004, 10:28 AM   #35
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For the the best BG epipsodes, theogically, thematically and emotioanlly interesting and it's one of the best visually to boot...
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Old March 2nd, 2004, 05:33 PM   #36
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I think since the censors were concerned about satan worship and
Iblis essentially represented the devil ..........I think that's why
they didn't show the cloven hoofs. I also believe that as someone
just said .............the 'said' footage may no longer exist.
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Old March 4th, 2004, 03:14 PM   #37
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I loved this episode. I never even thought about the possibility the crashed ship was the Pegasus. That stuff blew right past me at the time. I don't understand how Iblis could say that Sheba would see her father again unless he was lying. Since he was the devil I assume he lied. It was his plan to take her soul, in which case she would never see Commander Caine unless he was already dead and in hell. I don't understand why the network would have issues with the cloven feet since when Apollo shoots Iblis it is obvious Iblis is the devil. In addition Apollo openly states to Iblis that he knows Iblis is the devil.

Hatch's take on Iblis is straight out of left field. As the devil, Iblis could have appeared as a reptilian cylon and deceived their society thereby leading to its destruction. That's pretty much what he was doing with the Galactica before his plans were thwarted.
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Old March 4th, 2004, 03:18 PM   #38
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What I like is the way Apollo said "You have NO dominion over me"
that line to Iblis was priceless in my book
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Old March 21st, 2004, 11:38 AM   #39
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Exclamation tie in to greetings from earth

idont think that terra was the earth the beings of light sent them to 19 million sectars away sounds like a long way to travel sheba never looked better then in those white pants as i said in hand of god thanks to dvd im sure that terra is a copy of earth like in star trek meri the beings of light needed apollo to take the place of charile watts so they know where terra was and that it was not earth john told apollo that this was not the end of your journey but you must have faith i have faith in all of you in god<YWHA> in america and that the real last battlestar will fly again PS if the ship galactica was 6000 feet long it would take more than one expolding raider to destory it like the alantia was maybe the sheilds were shut off for the confornce have to have some kind of sheilds on those open landing bays in the books starbuck liked to stand close to the front and look out cant remember which novel lone of the best of the two parters he said he whould be back THIS IS LAUNCHCRUISERHAWKEYE TO UNKNOWN VIPERS WHERE DID YOU COME FROM have a cool one on me and launch when ready fleet outer marker delta we got your back mayhem out here
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Old April 2nd, 2004, 08:30 PM   #40
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Interesting thing about this episode was that it was so theological and faith-based. Of course, that was true of the entire series. The references to God, good, and evil were fundamental to the show. And groundbreaking, too, since science fiction up to that point tended to be more secular and materialistic. I enjoyed the point of view.

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Old April 4th, 2004, 09:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
I believe that's why the
flag for the battlestar gallactica was changed as well .........
God forbid that a Six pointed STAR should represent anything
POSITIVE in BOnnie Hammer or in RON MOORE'S eyes.)

Actually, when you look at the Galactica patch, it rather closely resembles an ancient Hawaiian standard. Kinda fits in place with the whole"ancients/13th tribe"
throughout the show(Egyptian, Greco-Roman, Mayan, etc.) Plus, Glen Larson is Mormon(LDS) and much of the native population of Hawaii is also Mormon.
But I never figured the patch resembled a Star of David(thanx!)
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Old April 4th, 2004, 10:50 AM   #42
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Actually I never liked this ep when I was a kid. The whole "deal with the Devil" theme(along with the special effects of Iblis true nature) used to creep me out. Being an imaginative kid going through Catholic school probably didn't help much! Even after I got into literature as I got older and started enjoying works like "Faust" , "The Devil and Tom Walker" and "The Devil and Daniel Webster" WOTG still wasn't one of my fav's. Talke about childhood scars!! Lol. Even after loving "The Devil's Advocate", "Brimstone", "Spawn", "Angel Heart", and "The Devil in Miss Jones" I couldn't get into "War of the Gods"! I even got over my "Exorcist" fears and read King James' "Daemonology"before I got over WOTG! (issues, issues--smh) Maybe it was the whole idea that one demon could pull the wool over so many peoples' eyes at once.-- 'And I would've gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for that meddlin' Apollo! '

Anyway, I finally got into this ep this week(2 days ago) while going thru the DVD set(as I'm oft to do.) I started out by watching the "party scene" --#17 on WOTG's deleted scenes options.(Get this, they actually had a disco version of the "Galactica theme"-- priceless !lol.) That got me into watching the whole ep start to finish. And you know what... I LOVE IT!!! THIS IS A GREAT EPSIODE!!!
The story is well written, the setting, the whole Apollo/Iblis interplay--every thing lines up and fits in with a classic "Faust/Daniel Webster" type story.

But the best part was Sheba. She's the shining star of this ep. As the focal point of the whole story(and the Apollo/Iblis conflict), Sheba rather subtly steals the show. Anne Lockhart outdoes herself running the full range of emotions from tragic to helpless to romantic to remorseful to relieved. Now the goood part. SHE DOES ONE HELLUVA CONVINCING VAMP!!! Once Iblis get under her skin she becomes a smouldering temptress. The one snippet of the "party scene" when Apollo and Starbuck find Iblis and Sheba, she's drinking from a glass of ambrosia and the way she looks at Iblis--sent me outside for a cigarette!! Then on the dance floor with Apollo! Of couse that white outfit helped. I was always a big Anne fan-always found her attractive but man she sizzles! I guess as an adult you pick up on things in your favorite movies and show that you didn't as a kid.
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Old April 4th, 2004, 11:45 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeneas
Actually I never liked this ep when I was a kid. The whole "deal with the Devil" theme(along with the special effects of Iblis true nature) used to creep me out. Being an imaginative kid going through Catholic school probably didn't help much! Even after I got into literature as I got older and started enjoying works like "Faust" , "The Devil and Tom Walker" and "The Devil and Daniel Webster" WOTG still wasn't one of my fav's. Talke about childhood scars!! Lol. Even after loving "The Devil's Advocate", "Brimstone", "Spawn", "Angel Heart", and "The Devil in Miss Jones" I couldn't get into "War of the Gods"! I even got over my "Exorcist" fears and read King James' "Daemonology"before I got over WOTG! (issues, issues--smh) Maybe it was the whole idea that one demon could pull the wool over so many peoples' eyes at once.-- 'And I would've gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for that meddlin' Apollo! '

Anyway, I finally got into this ep this week(2 days ago) while going thru the DVD set(as I'm oft to do.) I started out by watching the "party scene" --#17 on WOTG's deleted scenes options.(Get this, they actually had a disco version of the "Galactica theme"-- priceless !lol.) That got me into watching the whole ep start to finish. And you know what... I LOVE IT!!! THIS IS A GREAT EPSIODE!!!
The story is well written, the setting, the whole Apollo/Iblis interplay--every thing lines up and fits in with a classic "Faust/Daniel Webster" type story.

But the best part was Sheba. She's the shining star of this ep. As the focal point of the whole story(and the Apollo/Iblis conflict), Sheba rather subtly steals the show. Anne Lockhart outdoes herself running the full range of emotions from tragic to helpless to romantic to remorseful to relieved. Now the goood part. SHE DOES ONE HELLUVA CONVINCING VAMP!!! Once Iblis get under her skin she becomes a smouldering temptress. The one snippet of the "party scene" when Apollo and Starbuck find Iblis and Sheba, she's drinking from a glass of ambrosia and the way she looks at Iblis--sent me outside for a cigarette!! Then on the dance floor with Apollo! Of couse that white outfit helped. I was always a big Anne fan-always found her attractive but man she sizzles! I guess as an adult you pick up on things in your favorite movies and show that you didn't as a kid.
You picked up on some good points of the show. ANd yes Sheba did sizzle in
that show.
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Old April 4th, 2004, 11:46 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomasbombadil
Interesting thing about this episode was that it was so theological and faith-based. Of course, that was true of the entire series. The references to God, good, and evil were fundamental to the show. And groundbreaking, too, since science fiction up to that point tended to be more secular and materialistic. I enjoyed the point of view.

That's one of the main reasons I love the show so much Thomas
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Old April 5th, 2004, 02:07 PM   #45
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A great episode on many levels, but for me one that rates below HOG, LL, LPOTG and Saga because of one critical plot hole, namely the unsatisfactory way in which the Cylons are disposed of as a constant shadowy presence until HOG. The mere capture of Baltar can not mean an end to pursuit since his baseship has to know where he disappeared to and can surely still track the Galactica even if it lacks the strength to mount an assault (based on the losses from LL and FIS). It seems to me that Iblis had to have done something else that caused the Cylon threat to vanish and which also would have helped him win greater plaudits from the people. But how did he do this? Not by transporting the Fleet across a vast distance because if he did that, then Apollo, Starbuck and Sheba would not have been able to return to the planet they found him on. Clearly something is missing here, and Larson would have been better advised dealing with this point then giving us the rather pointless diversion of having Iblis control Boomer so he can win at triad. Since the Cylons disappearance after WOTG sets the tone for most of the rest of the season, this is one plot point that can't be so easily dismissed IMO.
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Old April 6th, 2004, 02:14 AM   #46
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Recall that the course for Earth, spilled at dinner by Apollo, Starbuck, and Sheba, comes at the end of the ep. Doubtless, Adama had the fleet change course at once. By the time Lucifer makes it to where Baltar's fighter disappeared off his scanners en route to the rendezvous, the Galactica will have come about to the new course. This could explain Adama's statements in HOG that "I thought we'd lost them for good", and that the Cylons have their BaseShips "spread out through all the star systems in order to find us". The change of course alone could explain the Cylon absence for a while.
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Old April 6th, 2004, 02:21 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antelope526

It was his plan to take her soul, in which case she would never see Commander Caine unless he was already dead and in hell. I don't understand why the network would have issues with the cloven feet since when Apollo shoots Iblis it is obvious Iblis is the devil. In addition Apollo openly states to Iblis that he knows Iblis is the devil.
That is EXCATLY what Iblis had in mind, since he ultimately intended to have them both safely ensconced in his kingdom eventually.
As to the cloven hooves, did you expect logic or consistancy from the NumbButts at the Nitwerk? Uh uh.
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Old April 6th, 2004, 10:36 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senmut
Recall that the course for Earth, spilled at dinner by Apollo, Starbuck, and Sheba, comes at the end of the ep. Doubtless, Adama had the fleet change course at once. By the time Lucifer makes it to where Baltar's fighter disappeared off his scanners en route to the rendezvous, the Galactica will have come about to the new course. This could explain Adama's statements in HOG that "I thought we'd lost them for good", and that the Cylons have their BaseShips "spread out through all the star systems in order to find us". The change of course alone could explain the Cylon absence for a while.
Interesting explanation, but I still think there's too much of a time lag to allow for that. It works best though if we just accept WOTG for what it shows us.

My own rewrite of the episode would have had Lucifer mounting an attack and then Iblis makes a dramatic display of force that hurls them across the stars (something he can do since he after all is the one who created the Cylons in the first place!) and thus causes the Cylons to lose track of the Fleet and give Iblis a much greater chance at establishing himself with the people as a would-be savior.
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Old April 8th, 2004, 01:52 AM   #49
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OR, the Cylons losing the Fleet for a time might have been part of the penalty Iblis had to pay for breaking the rules. They are, after all, his creations, therefore an extension of his will.
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Old May 6th, 2004, 11:11 AM   #50
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A great good v's Evil episode. It shows how people can be easily persuaded into someone elses way of thinking. I enjoyed the conflict between Apollo and Sheba. I beleive that this was the turning point in their relationship. The Ship Of Lights were the highlight for me.
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Old September 21st, 2004, 11:40 AM   #51
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I loved this episode. Easily the best of the series IMO. 5 out of 5!

I was stunned at how good this episode was. It is one of the finest episodes of any sci fi show I have ever seen, and in my opinion, this episode was worth the price of the DVD set alone. BRILLIANT!

There have been very few viewing experiances that I can remember compair to watching this episode. It was compelling from start to finish, and MacNee's performance as Iblis was magnificent, I can't remember him ever giving a better performance. You had an uneasy feeling about his character that grew throughout the whole episode. The way he seduces Sheba to his will, his confrontations with Adama, the way he deals with Baltar, and how he gets the population to follow him in such a brief period, you started to suspect who he really was. When Apollo reveals that he is the'Prince of Darkness', the hairs on the back of my neck were standing on end.

The scene on the Ship of Lights, where Apollo's body is layed out on the alter, and Starbuck & Sheba, overwhelmed and struggleing to comprehend what is going on, is one of the most beautifully played out scenes I've seen. Wonderfull acting by Benedict, Lockhart & Hatch!

Now, as to the crashed ship. I must admit, when I first watched this episode I also thought it was the Pegasus. But since I have read otherwise on this page, I feel slightly cheated that we can't see the deleated scene. But in some ways, things like that actually play better if you don't see them. Let's our imagination do the work, witch just makes the whole scene more unsettleing!

But to round off, a brilliant episode! And Patrick MacNee gives us a stellar performance.
By the way, do you not think that Iblis and the 'Angels' in this episode are quite simmilar to the Vorlons and the Shadows from Babylon 5?
BRG

PS- As a Superman fan, I was delighted to see Kirk Alyn , the original big screen Man of Steel from the 1940's serials 'Superman' and 'Atom Man vs Superman', had a wee guest role in this episode. He played the Old Man on the Gemini frieghter who Iblis askes to follow him. Although he was in his late 60's, you can still see classic look of Superman in his face!
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Old October 27th, 2004, 03:52 PM   #52
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One great unanswered question in terms of Galactica production history was whether it was a mere coincidence caused by casting Patrick Macnee as Iblis that made Larson add that very important conversation with Baltar in the prison cell that IMO is the absolute lynchpin in Galactica history in terms of understand the nature of the whole Human-Cylon conflict. Whatever the circumstances, in that one scene alone Larson managed to give the series a deeper subtext than he probably first envisioned and in the process made ABC seem like inadvertant geniuses for insisting that the Cylons not be living creatures. It takes on a much more chillingly effective connotation to realize that Iblis was responsible for destroying the living race of Cylons, and that the entire conflict is not one viewed through conventional "shades of gray" thinking like the Federation battles with Klingons and Romulans are, but a case where it can only be seen through a Good-Evil and black-white lens.
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Old October 27th, 2004, 11:56 PM   #53
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Seeing as Iblis would have only a finite number of demons on his side, it would make sense to replace the Cylons with robots, which can be built in infinite numbers. No end to the troops to spread his mayhem and chaos through the universe.
One wonders how much of their technology the Cylons derived from their organic creators, and how much Iblis gave them outright at the time of their uprising. Did he do so with the specific goal of destroying Huamnity, or did that come later on?
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Old October 28th, 2004, 09:13 AM   #54
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I think Iblis at the time was just interested in destroying the Cylon race, and then he could move on to humanity afterwards. "One race at a time" as it were.

If I were writing a full backstory on how Iblis did this, I would see him as someone who took the form of a living Cylon and gave them the technological breakthrough to develop the centurion robot (perhaps the old Cylon race was in a war where they needed such technology to win, or perhaps even in a civil war with each other and Iblis helped one side), knowing that inevitably the robots would destroy the living Cylons.
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Old October 28th, 2004, 12:41 PM   #55
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Missing scenes:


http://s4.invisionfree.com/Battlesta...topic=152&st=0
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Old October 28th, 2004, 02:00 PM   #56
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I have seen all of the telemovie versions of the two part episodes with deleted scenes restored to the cuts, and IMO the ones for WOTG came off as the most expendable compared to the ones in LPOTG, GOIPZ and LL. The one I liked best was the scene of Apollo, Starbuck and Sheba arriving back on the Galactica before the final scene. That was the only time Boxey and Sheba were ever in the same scene (of interest to me in light of my penchant for advancing fanfic stories pushing a deeper Apollo-Sheba relationship over time).

Anyone notice in the DVD deleted scenes section how a scene from "Hand Of God" was mistakenly stuck in?
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Old October 28th, 2004, 02:15 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
One great unanswered question in terms of Galactica production history was whether it was a mere coincidence caused by casting Patrick Macnee as Iblis that made Larson add that very important conversation with Baltar in the prison cell that IMO is the absolute lynchpin in Galactica history in terms of understand the nature of the whole Human-Cylon conflict. Whatever the circumstances, in that one scene alone Larson managed to give the series a deeper subtext than he probably first envisioned and in the process made ABC seem like inadvertant geniuses for insisting that the Cylons not be living creatures. It takes on a much more chillingly effective connotation to realize that Iblis was responsible for destroying the living race of Cylons, and that the entire conflict is not one viewed through conventional "shades of gray" thinking like the Federation battles with Klingons and Romulans are, but a case where it can only be seen through a Good-Evil and black-white lens.

I don't believe that was a coincidence by Larson. Even the opening narration done by Macnee could lead to questions. "There are those that believe that life here began out there."

I am curious as to where "Here" meant. Could it be Iblis talking about Earth or Kobol. Another thing to ponder is IL. Is it a sentient being or a robot. I believe the IL is a sentient being.
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Old October 28th, 2004, 03:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfish
I don't believe that was a coincidence by Larson. Even the opening narration done by Macnee could lead to questions. "There are those that believe that life here began out there."

I am curious as to where "Here" meant. Could it be Iblis talking about Earth or Kobol. Another thing to ponder is IL. Is it a sentient being or a robot. I believe the IL is a sentient being.
Well considering that the rest of the opening narration refers to "the forefathers of the Egyptians or the Toltecs or the Mayans" and in Saga goes further to reference the lost civilization of Atlantis, I think that doesn't need to be tied to in to Iblis and is just the device needed to set up the premise to the audience.

The Imperious Leader is a robot, since Lucifer talks in part 2 of LPOTG how the new Imperious Leader was drawn from the same class as himself, the IL series. I think what happens is that when one becomes Imperious Leader, drawn from the ranks of advanced IL type robots, the computer brain is then placed in the most advanced model of all, and then is given Iblis's voice, which is used for all Imperious Leaders out of respect for the one who made the Cylon robot race.
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Old October 28th, 2004, 08:08 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
The Imperious Leader is a robot, since Lucifer talks in part 2 of LPOTG how the new Imperious Leader was drawn from the same class as himself, the IL series. I think what happens is that when one becomes Imperious Leader, drawn from the ranks of advanced IL type robots, the computer brain is then placed in the most advanced model of all, and then is given Iblis's voice, which is used for all Imperious Leaders out of respect for the one who made the Cylon robot race.
Out of respect, perhaps. My impression was that they do so because it is part of the proceedure, and it would never occur to any of them to vary from it. "No independant inititive" Cain said. Changing the voice would be outside the parameters, or so I would have thought.
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Old October 29th, 2004, 05:01 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senmut
Out of respect, perhaps. My impression was that they do so because it is part of the proceedure, and it would never occur to any of them to vary from it. "No independant inititive" Cain said. Changing the voice would be outside the parameters, or so I would have thought.
Perhaps Cain was simply referring to the lesser drones. We know from observation that the IL series, and even the 2-brained Vulpa, display emotion. This suggests "illogical" reasoning cabability, and thus the ability to act on that reasoning, i.e. outside of parameters.

JJR
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So sez our Muffit!!!

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