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Old November 21st, 2004, 09:19 PM   #91
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Bryan,
I am impressed yet again......."cousins" is a great film, one of my all time favorite(non sci-fi) films. And Lloyd Bridges shines in this movie!!!!!
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Old November 22nd, 2004, 12:30 AM   #92
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One of the best Battlestar Galactia epsiodes ever!! Cain is Amazing!!
Its nice to see the different type Command styles between Adama & Cain...

Even after all these years... I still enjoy rewatching this episode over & over...


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Old November 22nd, 2004, 11:53 PM   #93
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Welcome to the Fleet Haveke!

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Old November 23rd, 2004, 10:25 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
Yes, the "Adama is the Fleet Commander" is the only direct reference to the command structure in the episode. I think this is one case where taking the series as a whole, it becomes easier to infer certain points and the fact that Cain always appears in a warrior's uniform and not the more formal command uniform that Adama always wears, would also serve as a good subliminal indicator of how in the overall scheme of the Colonial Command structure, Cain would place lower than Adama.
I believe the quoted position was "Commander-in-Chief", which I would equate to either the head of the JCS, or perhaps a military Secretary of Defense, if we model the Council as the U.S. cabinet with actual governing power. The inference in Apollo’s statement is that Adama is legitimately where the buck stops in the chain of command, and probably was in that position before the Pegasus was lost, as no one disputes his claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
The one underlying point regarding Cain's motives that I don't think came out in the episode or the novelization has to do with the matter of why Cain is determined to keep fighting at this point.

Cain is described as the greatest warrior in the Fleet's history. And just think of what Cain has to deal with with the realization that he wasn't there to do anything about the destruction of the Colonies? That fact alone has to weigh heavily on his conscience, because no doubt his own sense of confidence in his ability would make him think that if he had been there, he might have made the difference.

So Cain's determination to keep fighting is best seen not through the too narrow prism of mad egomania, but with the much deeper subtext of guilt that his decision to not return home after the Battle of Molocay may have been the most tragic mistake of his life. Taking out the baseships to try and give Adama and his Fleet his idea of long-term security, is thus at this point the only way he can think of to make up for that, and if he isn't successful in taking them all out and survives, he then would consider it an obligation to keep tying the Cylons down and hopefully buy Adama more long-term security.

Just my take on this very fascinating character.
I agree that this didn't come out in the episode... It would be nice to see the subtext that you describe, but nowhere is it evident in LB's performance that this sense of guilt is what is driving him. While the character was somewhat patterned on Patton, I tend to see more of McArthur in Cain…and indeed, Adama’s removal of Cain from command mirror’s Truman’s “firing” of McArthur in Korea.

Cain is certainly portrayed as a sound tactician, but to me, much like McArthur, (and others in WWII, such as Montgomery), Cain stands more as a man who has been very lucky, and whose publicity has been fed by – and in turn has fed – his enormous ego.

This makes him no less fascinating...just more flawed.

my tuppence...

JJR
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 02:28 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justjackrandom
I believe the quoted position was "Commander-in-Chief",
No, in the confrontation scene with the Pegasus warriors, Apollo's exact words are "Adama is the Fleet Commander!". But I do think the other point you make about how that position would correlate to something lower than his higher position of President of the Council is correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by justjackrandom
I agree that this didn't come out in the episode... It would be nice to see the subtext that you describe, but nowhere is it evident in LB's performance that this sense of guilt is what is driving him.
I think there is just one hint of it though in Part 2 when Apollo on the bridge angrily confronts him with his "Are you thinking of your place in history? The legend of Commander Cain?" At least from Apollo's standpoint, he could easily be intimating how from the history books standpoint, Cain would have a tarnished legacy if he hadn't been there when he was most needed and how right now what he needs more than anything is a chance to make up for that. The look on Cain's face as Apollo poses that challenge and then his abrupt, "You're out of line, Captain." does indicate that at the very least Apollo's question does hit a raw nerve of sorts.
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Old November 24th, 2004, 02:33 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Gemini1999

Another thing I found interesting was the fact that Sheba was a combat pilot. In "Lost Planet of the Gods", they made it sound like there weren't any female warriors in the fleet. I always wonder how Sheba got by them.....!
Female, yes. There is Athena and Rigel in the pilot film. Pilots, yes. Athena flies Adama's shuttle back from the meeting on the Atlantia. She's just not rated on a Viper, hence her need to train in one. After all, Apollo says they lost alot of qualified people at Carillon. Sheba may have served on the Pegasus, or some other ship in the 5th Fleet in another capacity, and then qualified as a pilot, to fill a gap. I would gather that most pilots were men as a matter of course, and the trainees in LPOTG happened to be female due to conditions.
And the execs at ABC.
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Old November 24th, 2004, 06:22 AM   #97
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good points Senmut!.....especially about the execs
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Old November 24th, 2004, 07:58 AM   #98
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maybe Sheba got into the Academy because of Cain. We really do not know how she became a viper pilot, but it is a good thing to speculate on it.
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Old November 24th, 2004, 12:32 PM   #99
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If I ever redid LPOTG, I think there could be a way to eliminate that sexist undertone of female viper pilots being such an incomprehensible concept without harming the integrity of the overall story, because as these last posts indicate that whole LPOTG attitude leads to these kinds of speculations about Sheba's background and how she could have risen to her position aboard the Pegasus.

Indeed, the fact that she is so easily accepted by everyone as an equal among warriors once she is introduced certainly shows how the writers had realized their mistake from earlier in the season with LPOTG, and I've always liked to think that she just made her way up without any special considerations because the Galactica universe was more enlightened than the LPOTG scenes indicated.
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Old November 25th, 2004, 05:32 PM   #100
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While Living Legend DID give us a war hero "Cain" who loved to wage head to head frontline combat conflicts with Cylons. Than Commander Adama's more deserved defensive tactics, Cain and the crew of the Battlestar Pegasus could have gotten their own spin off series or mini arc within the Original Battlestar Galactica series. As Glen Larson himself pondered back in Sci-fi Universe Magazine (circa June 1995)

To go off and cover adventures with just him. would have been very interesting to do so. Pity the TOS show or the Marvel Comic books based on Galactica weren't around long enough, for such a thing to happen.

Every fan would love to see how Cain survived the encounter with two Cylon Baseships in live action. And what eactly happened afterwards. The thought of Cain trying along with his crew of the Pegasus to pin down the Cylon Empire all by themselves is foolish on Cain's part though. Gamoray maybe, one Cylon outpost sure! but the Cylon Empire itself?! Nah even Cain is smarter than that. Colonial Battlestars in a fleet at Cimtar were destroyed by hordes of Cylon Raiders. And Cain lost for whatever reasons at "Molocay" He no longer has a fleet. Hell to even challenge the might of the Cylon Empire in full he'd need at least an "Armada" which is a grand = Fleet of "fleets" of starships meant and prepared for an all out war, with the Cylons.

The series may have had it's faults with several Cylons Centurions getting taken out by one or two colonial guys with less fire power but rack up a huge centurion tin can count by episodes end? Should any future stories take up the continuing adventures of Commander Cain and the Pegasus, i'd like to see plenty of great tales around how Cain plans on keeping his crew and ship in one piece, while facing new obstacles and challenges within/ near the old boundries where the colonials faced the Cylon Empire, the Cyrannus galaxy.

Despite it's faults Richard Hatch's Warhawk, it had a great concept didn't it. Cain building new warships and having an entire planet's resources at his command. Plotting and planning, getting his own personal milita together, rather than just engaging in battles with Cylon forces without really crippling them at all. Just a minor 'bug' annoyance. While the Cylons still went about conquering?!

Perhaps Cain would have journeyed into the black void to where (thats if he too knew) Kobol was, and unearthed some 'ancient arcane' Kobollian technology that the crew of the Galactica missed out on while there and gathered up his own personal army from several dozen worlds, maybe former allies of the colonials during the 1.000 year war thats wants some payback on the Cylons. And after many adventures made their glorious counterstrike against the Empire.


Well in any case, another Battlestar with a different Commander would demand a new approach to telling the stories within the same universe wouldn't it? To touch on a broad spectum of tales but keeping it all original. Now there is a real challenge. Setting apart the two ships, doing different sets of adventures for them having Cain's crew like bunch of adventurers. Getting into all kinds of wild action missions, adventures and enjoying it. While the Galactica crew comes across more like a group of 'Nomads'. Trying to survive by any means while making a journey across unknown space. But making sure it all feels similar yet each ship with its characters are set in certain situations and adapting to them while progressing with an ongoing story arc leading to something later on in the future, but making the most of the "steps"* taken during the journey! (* i.e. the episodes per season!)

Had the series gone on, i'd like to have seen both ships get to Earth (either together or seperately) and continue the same feeling of allies working together, sharing technology, fighting side by side, playing catch up with family issues, friends and the like. The same or similar kind of epic "Wow" two Battlestars and whats gonna happen feeling from the two forces hooking up once more.


Who would you side with? What would happen if you were on Cain's ship lost for all those years. And what would you say to your fellow colonials once you caught up again? What could Cain and co offer once he caught up with the Galactica, or would he stay on his own ship feeling like a King and not take orders from Adama or the council, remember Cain does disobey orders if he feels things are done best under his comand and his way.

Ah the possibilities!

KJ
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Old November 25th, 2004, 05:38 PM   #101
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Warhawk is the best of the Hatch novels.
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Old November 25th, 2004, 05:49 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
If I ever redid LPOTG, I think there could be a way to eliminate that sexist undertone of female viper pilots being such an incomprehensible concept without harming the integrity of the overall story, because as these last posts indicate that whole LPOTG attitude leads to these kinds of speculations about Sheba's background and how she could have risen to her position aboard the Pegasus.

Indeed, the fact that she is so easily accepted by everyone as an equal among warriors once she is introduced certainly shows how the writers had realized their mistake from earlier in the season with LPOTG, and I've always liked to think that she just made her way up without any special considerations because the Galactica universe was more enlightened than the LPOTG scenes indicated.

I honestly don't see it as sexism, EP. More like Israel, where women serve, not out of a sense of "equality", but because it is needed. After all, there are only so many Colonials, and about 27 gazillion Cylons. Since we saw no women Viper pilots in the pilot film, they might well have seemed a tad outre to the new trainees, as well as the surviving old hands who had spent most of their tour on the Galactica. Since Athena flies a shuttle, women pilots are NOT an anomoly, and even being on a Battlestar is hardly a non-combat role.
We also know little of Colonial mores on the relationships between men and women, and what is considered "proper" behavior. I think we need to guard against seeing everything throuigh the lens of modernity, and what is or isn't considered acceptable now, when looking at an "alien" culture.
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Old November 25th, 2004, 08:01 PM   #103
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Quote:
Warhawk is the best of the Hatch novels.
Maybe but it sure is bloody hard to get those paperback versions?

Wonder what else Richard Hatch has in store in his last two books, and who he is doing them with? I kind of wonder why he hasn't let other writers come in and do books within his framework of stories as well. If he did we could get several books out a year and have plenty more adventures within the frame work of his saga.

Including more of Commander Cain and the Pegasus. Barring events from BG:Resurrection for those of you in the know?* Perhaps inbetween those 25 or so yahrens before he met the Galactica again.

( *)

Perhaps after he is done he will allow other to continue his work? Even if the Galactica were to find Earth in his novels, it still won't be the end of Battlestar Galactica adventures. (i doubt he gonna take them directly to Earth anyways?)

I'd love to see Richard hook up with several known and unknown BG fanfic writers and get their work in publication to boot. That would be beautiful.

Imagine the "Pegasus Chronicles" from whats-her-name? i'm sure that could be a bestseller. Hatch would listen wouldn't he? Giving the loyal fans that have backed BG for years, a major boost in the form getting their work out there in novels, would be some form of continution alright!

Hell he could open a few doors even, who knows?

No one would object to reading more Commander Cain stories* aboard the Pegasus (or his successor/ XO Colonel Tolan*) now would they.

KJ

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Old November 25th, 2004, 08:36 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason
To go off and cover adventures with just him. would have been very interesting to do so. Pity the TOS show or the Marvel Comic books based on Galactica weren't around long enough, for such a thing to happen.
Never would have happened with the comic book series because Marvel was prohibited from doing any episode adaptation after LPOTG, which meant all characters and story situations that took place after LPOTG were off-limits with them. No Cain, no Sheba, no Iblis. (Probably the biggest of many reasons why that series had a quick demise)


"i'd like to see plenty of great tales around how Cain plans on keeping his crew and ship in one piece, while facing new obstacles and challenges within/ near the old boundries where the colonials faced the Cylon Empire, the Cyrannus galaxy."

I think we're actually in agreement on my point about Cain wanting to make things difficult for the Cylons, but that the difference is more in the details.

I don't see Cain heading for Earth, because his nature would be of the kind to disbelieve Adama's vision that searching for Earth is the key to human survival. He would be more inclined to stay behind and look for what he would consider more "practical"ways of trying to win the war against the Cylons. It would take a very big change in his thinking at the time of LL to get him to do otherwise IMO.


"I'd love to see Richard hook up with several known and unknown BG fanfic writers and get their work in publication to boot. That would be beautiful."

Senmut, Maggie Hutchison and myself (all of us the authors of the ongoing "Second Season" project which is at 10 stories and counting) are available any time.
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Old November 25th, 2004, 08:38 PM   #105
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A milestone! An episode review thread has at last gone into triple digits.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 01:24 AM   #106
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And, hopefully, will go into quadruples!
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Old November 26th, 2004, 06:08 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason
Maybe but it sure is bloody hard to get those paperback versions?

Wonder what else Richard Hatch has in store in his last two books, and who he is doing them with? I kind of wonder why he hasn't let other writers come in and do books within his framework of stories as well. If he did we could get several books out a year and have plenty more adventures within the frame work of his saga.

Including more of Commander Cain and the Pegasus. Barring events from BG:Resurrection for those of you in the know?* Perhaps inbetween those 25 or so yahrens before he met the Galactica again.

( *)

Perhaps after he is done he will allow other to continue his work? Even if the Galactica were to find Earth in his novels, it still won't be the end of Battlestar Galactica adventures. (i doubt he gonna take them directly to Earth anyways?)

I'd love to see Richard hook up with several known and unknown BG fanfic writers and get their work in publication to boot. That would be beautiful.

Imagine the "Pegasus Chronicles" from whats-her-name? i'm sure that could be a bestseller. Hatch would listen wouldn't he? Giving the loyal fans that have backed BG for years, a major boost in the form getting their work out there in novels, would be some form of continution alright!

Hell he could open a few doors even, who knows?

No one would object to reading more Commander Cain stories* aboard the Pegasus (or his successor/ XO Colonel Tolan*) now would they.

KJ





Jason, Hatch has Brad Linaweaver writing them as seen from my Paradis review:

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...ead.php?t=8579




This guy wouldn't know BG if it bit him. Most of the novel is dribble with the characters acting like mirror images ie Mirror Mirror. The author seems to like the phrase, "old bastard." It is throughout the book. If Uni is approving this they want to kill os BG.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 08:19 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
Never would have happened with the comic book series because Marvel was prohibited from doing any episode adaptation after LPOTG, which meant all characters and story situations that took place after LPOTG were off-limits with them. No Cain, no Sheba, no Iblis. (Probably the biggest of many reasons why that series had a quick demise)
I think the Marvel series lasted for two years and 22 issues, I don't think the other two series lasted that long.

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Old November 26th, 2004, 08:39 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter noble
I think the Marvel series lasted for two years and 22 issues, I don't think the other two series lasted that long.
Peter
Yes, 23 issues for Marvel although most of it was bogged down in that interminable "Memory Machine" storyline. Other flaws besides the absence of Sheba, Cain, Iblis etc. were the total disappearance of Baltar after issue #6 and a flashback scene in issue #7 (ultimately the whole Marvel storyline would have us think that Lucifer left Baltar for dead on Kobol!), drawing Sire Uri as a clone of the Spiderman/Daredevil villain the Kingpin (indeed it's this depiction that has often confused many a fanfic author into falsely thinking Uri was a fat slug of the Jabba type, whereas Ray Milland was nothing like that at all!) etc.

Max Press I think matched Marvel in terms of number of issues put out when you combine all of their different miniseries together. The subsequent comics series (I keep forgetting the company name) lasted the shortest.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 08:42 AM   #110
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Eric the comics are being reissued in January and March:

January- saga of A Star World.

March-The memory machine.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 11:02 AM   #111
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Default The Living Legend

The Living Legend



Original Airdate Part 1: November 26, 1978

Writer: Glen A. Larson.

Director: Vince Edwards.

Guest Cast: Lloyd Bridges (Cain), Rod Haase (Tolan).

While on patrol, Apollo and Starbuck discover the missing Battlestar Pegasus under the command of the military genius Cain. Although now under the protection of two Battlestars, the fleet is stopped dead in space do to a critical fuel shortage. To obtain the necessary supplies, Cain and Adama plan a daring raid on a nearby Cylon command base. One of Galactica’s most popular episodes, The Living Legend was re-edited with Fire in Space and released theatrically overseas.



“What I had in mind was Eisenhower and Patton,” reveals Larson. “Patton was blood and guts and Cain was really our Patton in space. In some ways we were hitting a production and theoretical stride in that one. There is a show that gave us a chance to provide pretty good character [development] with a pretty good space dynamic. I would have like to have been able to do more shows like that.”

Concerned about protecting the fleet, Adama opposes Cain’s aggressive military campaign against the Cylons. Although the episode featured a series of impressive action sequences, director Vince Edwards favored the drama inherent in the conflict of wills between Adama and Cain. “The relationship,” he says, “between these two powerful men – the conflict between these two great leaders getting together – was what I liked.”

Edwards also wanted to add a little more mobility to Baltar (John Colicos). "He said he wanted to get me off that bloody chair," recalls Colicos, "of course, they polished the floor so tremendously that I nearly fell on my ass. But I welcomed anything that got me off climbing that ladder because it was difficult to have a dynamic performance when you are rooted literally to a spot."



"He's a machiavellian kind of character," said Edwards of Baltar, "he is almost like a non-human character; a guy that portrays something that might be a villain of the future, that kind of look, that kind of sound. I tried to give him an inhuman quality because he had these robots around him."

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Old November 26th, 2004, 11:34 AM   #112
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Nice stuff Peter 26 years and still the episode is that incredible. Those pics should inspire Justjackransom further, to do his Living Legend or whole BG: Extended Special Edition a little faster.

It would be nice, but I’m not waiting for a re-release or a "director's cut". Working with the DVD material and the soundtracks, I just started ripping to “Lucas-ize” TOS. I plan to re-edit the entire series, inserting and moving scenes to include more of the good stuff they cut out, and (hopefully) fixing some of the continuity errors and disconnects that exist. My partner in crime and I are kicking around whether or not leave it in series format, or present it in miniseries format, in two-hour chunks. If we can find some help with digital animation (neither of us is too familiar, and I don’t want to take the time to learn) that doesn’t look too different from the footage originally shot, we want to add and clean up some FX shots, including some interiors such as hanger bay shots, etc.


Hell you could put up some screen captures of the deleted scenes from the DVD. A little extention of this episode, even expressed with pictures would remind fans of how great this episode really is.

Even add those rare FX shots from Mission Galactica?

KJ
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Old November 26th, 2004, 02:18 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senmut
Female, yes. There is Athena and Rigel in the pilot film. Pilots, yes. Athena flies Adama's shuttle back from the meeting on the Atlantia. She's just not rated on a Viper, hence her need to train in one. After all, Apollo says they lost alot of qualified people at Carillon. Sheba may have served on the Pegasus, or some other ship in the 5th Fleet in another capacity, and then qualified as a pilot, to fill a gap. I would gather that most pilots were men as a matter of course, and the trainees in LPOTG happened to be female due to conditions.
And the execs at ABC.

(Latecomer, I know....)


Didn't somebody address this issue in a fanfic once? The scenario went like this....

Initially, there were male and female Warriors. But by the time the War became a stalemate and stretched into a millenia-long war of attrition, Colonial doctrine(or tradition) dictated that it might be more prudent to keep the women out of the front line assignments(so why have 'em serve in the fleet at all if this is the mindset )like fighter pilot or ground pounder because of their reproductive worth as childbearers(akin to the ancient Spartans and our own past inequalities). I guess the rationale was that the Colonials realized that they were up against an almost inexhaustable supply of machine warriors who could be replaced via automated/industrial means whilst por homo-sapiens were forced to replace their losses the old fashioned way--it was set up as a backdrop to the whole Ravishol/cloning process as an alternative. An interesting way to write around an obviously dated concept in TOS.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 02:20 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
Mustex, I'm afraid I don't understand a couple of your points in your initial post. How is Cain "flat" when he manages to show quite a wide range of characteristics throughout the two parts? In a single episode, we saw a more multi-dimensional commander than we ever saw in say Captain Kirk or Commander Koenig throughout the entire run of their respective series.

Also, your point about "Adama having too much screen time at the beginning" makes little sense to me since Adama has no screen time at the beginning. He simply shows up during the course of his normal duties and there is nothing out of character for him to be on the bridge conferring with his executive officer about a fuel shortage situation.
It wasn't so much that he didn't have many characteristics, but rather that the actor didn't convince of those characteristics. Also, maybe it wasn't quite at the beggining, but when Adama met Cain it seemed a bit too strung-out.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 02:55 PM   #115
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Looking back i wish several more scenes were there to flesh out the story a little more.

What if we had?

1) Cain or Sheba relating the tale of the Battle of Molocay with *flashbacks* added, showing the fifth fleet battling Cylons. Maybe showing some of Cain's past history with yet another hologram viewing i.e. recorded logs stored away etc. We'd get a look at other Battlestars this way and see how Cain survived and dealt with this crushing blow to his ego.

2) The Council of Twelve meeting Commander Cain. Perhaps another subplot showing how the Council takes a liking to Cain rather than Adama and may plot to replace him with Cain at some point in the future? Even if he is a warmongeror, they are blinded by him being the famous Living Legend and warm up to him. We could see a quick montage of scenes seeing Cain touring the fleet seeing whats left of humanity and what he has to fight for.

Could explain his actions later on trying to save the fleet from three baseships, with the images of the civilians in his head making him fight for them rather than himself.

3) More of the Pegasus. maybe she has subtle differences besides the similar look of her and the Galactica on the outside.

4) More Cylon civilians, the flip side to the colonials in the fleet. what exactly do Cylon civilians do.

5) Delphian Empire on Gamoray. What do they look like? Maybe it could have been an idea to have Boomer and Starbuck find some prisoner cells during the fuel raid and rescue some Delphians who could have informed the colonials more about the Cylons and their activities. They also could have remained on the Pegasus after she disappeared?! (what would that do for fanfic writers eh?)

6) Gold Spar, Bronze Spar squadrons? If Cain saved survivors of the fifth fleet what other squadrons of Vipers are there besides Silver Spar on the Pegasus? only fanfiction alludes to gold and other colours due to the colour name of Silver Spar squadron?

Add all that in a few more minutes and *voila* a bit more back bone eh?

Anyone got other ideas to add?

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Old November 26th, 2004, 03:31 PM   #116
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Jason, the pegasus is older than the galactica.

Starbuck: It looks like spit is holding her together- LL The Novelization.


This episode was the most expensive of the series for various reasons. The SFX were above par.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 04:05 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustex
It wasn't so much that he didn't have many characteristics, but rather that the actor didn't convince of those characteristics. Also, maybe it wasn't quite at the beggining, but when Adama met Cain it seemed a bit too strung-out.
Well, I can't think of any actor other than Lloyd Bridges who could have done a better job in the part. As far as the Adama-Cain scene you talk about, all it did was set up the needed scene in which two commanders need to exchange information and also set us up to the underlying conflict in philosophies that the two represent. It's more important to know the difference between Adama and Cain in those repsects, then it is to have more scenes of Starbuck and Apollo for the sake of it.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 04:11 PM   #118
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Jason, the pegasus is older than the galactica.

Starbuck: It looks like spit is holding her together- LL The Novelization.



Yes yes, i know that i have the novel. And i've already stated that in my earlier post? Dude stop repeating what been said already.

I just made a list of things i wish were in the episode. I wondered if anyone also had a list of things they too wish transpired in LL that could have added greatly to the events within the episode itself.

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Old November 26th, 2004, 05:54 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason
I just made a list of things i wish were in the episode. I wondered if anyone also had a list of things they too wish transpired in LL that could have added greatly to the events within the episode itself. KJ
Well, this is a list of some of what I came up with when it was time for me to an expanded adaptation on the fanfic site.

#1-Expand further on the background regarding the death of Cain's wife, and the circumstances regarding his entering a relationship with Cassiopeia and Sheba's anger over this. The novelization gives a good launching point by mentioning that Sheba strongly resembles her mother (which if you extrapolate further means that June Lockhart is the only one who could play her in a flashback!) and that Cain just couldn't open up to his daughter because she reminded him too much of his wife, and needed comfort from an outsider.

#2-Exactly how did Imperious Leader arrive on Gomorrah, and if by baseship, how was it rendered unusable for the battle against the Pegasus and Galactica? I see his baseship actually landing on the planet perhaps being moored to some kind of structure the way a dirigible is tied to a mooring mast, and that the attack on the planet knocked it off its moorings and thus rendered it unusable for the subsequent battle.

#3-Show a little bit more of Apollo developing an instinctive attraction to Sheba and restraining himself out of equally instinctive loyalty to Serina's memory.
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Old November 26th, 2004, 05:58 PM   #120
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"5) Delphian Empire on Gamoray. What do they look like? Maybe it could have been an idea to have Boomer and Starbuck find some prisoner cells during the fuel raid and rescue some Delphians who could have informed the colonials more about the Cylons and their activities. They also could have remained on the Pegasus after she disappeared?! (what would that do for fanfic writers eh?) "

There is one thing about the Delphians that I think can be extrapolated from this and subsequent episodes.

#1-Their civilization represents the far limits of known charted space from a Colonial standpoint. The planet Gomorrah (or Gamoray, whichever one prefers) is the last planet in the series actually known by name to the Colonials, and after that every new planet they come across in subsequent episodes represents something completely unknown to them. That the Delphians are at the very edge can be further gleaned from Adama being somewhat surprised at first to realize they're close to them, and thus it isn't a system instinctively familiar to most people.

#2-The Delphians may not have been the kind of civilization who believed in deep space travel of their own, at least certainly not going beyond their system as evidenced by the lack of what the Galactica comes across in subsequent episodes until "Greetings From Earth".

Whatever they look like is something the imagination can run with in all kinds of different directions!
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