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Old April 23rd, 2004, 07:04 PM   #31
The 14th Colony
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LOL, your brain aches from deep thinking? Think of it this way, I'm keeping your brain fine-tuned for deep thought, between semesters!
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Old April 23rd, 2004, 07:17 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by The 14th Colony
With no new replies to my time-seperation concept, here is a new deep thought for the day.

I have realized a potentially inevitable problem facing us in our future. Think about all the billions of tons of garbage dumped in trash dumps around the world every year. Think about all the plastic trash bags you seal closed with bubbles of air still inside and throw out. Think about all the empty glass jars and empty plastic soda bottles you throw away every day, every week, every month, every year, through your whole lifetime, but not before screwing closed the airtight lid! Do you realize how much of our air we are throwing away in tightly closed plastic bags and sealed plastic and glass bottles? Good God what are we doing?

That was my deep thought for the day. Thank you. You may go back to your business now.
You know, it's deep thoughts like that which remind me we really need Mr. Fusion from Back to the Future!!
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Old April 23rd, 2004, 07:18 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by The 14th Colony
LOL, your brain aches from deep thinking?
Yes! pathophysiology killed me!
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Originally Posted by The 14th Colony
Think of it this way, I'm keeping your brain fine-tuned for deep thought, between semesters!
yes I suppose I could look at it that way but when does my little brain get a break? LOL! 14th! are you a tough task master?
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Old April 23rd, 2004, 07:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Rowan
Jewels you have a good memory!


"If our friendship depends on things like space and time, then when we finally overcome space and time, we've destroyed our own brotherhood! But overcome space, and all we have left is Here. Overcome time, and all we have left is Now. And in the middle of Here and Now, don't you think that we might see each other once or twice?"

The entire book is on line at this location

http://www.42.dropbear.id.au/quotes.html
Rowan, THANKS! I've always loved that book for the spirit of frienship expressed in that quote and for the idea in it of staying focused on becoming the best person you can be.

14th: I'm not as fiery a believer these days either: but my faith is deeper. That steel and gold which is tested in fire get's stronger and purer in ways we don't always expect. I find I'm more confident in whose hand I hold's inevitability of being there for me when the crisis of life tumble in. Yet I still don't feel like my relationship with God is as close as he or I would like. This present world (whatever the time and dimension) has it's distractions.

Love the deep thinkers around here. 14th if you are Homer Simpson, I must be at about Snoopy the Dog level. LOL.
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Old April 23rd, 2004, 08:19 PM   #35
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Ack! My deep thoughts are sinking down the page! That's too deep!
I like your reveries 14th -- sounds just like me
BTW,on blindness, check out "Country of the Blind" by HG Wells. It's a real "eye-opener"
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Old April 24th, 2004, 04:22 PM   #36
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in case your interested in art and blind people..

http://www.artagogo.com/commentary/a...rtforblind.htm
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Old April 25th, 2004, 01:59 PM   #37
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I have had a series of deep thoughts that I thought to introduce, and it is about time. Not about time that I do so as if I had been postponing it, but it is about time itself.

This is not an argument to prove that time does not exist, it is merely an exercise in deep thought. I have oft said that God is outside the realm of time, that he exists in the past, the present, and the future at the same time. While not to suggest that we are on the same level as God, I present my deep thought that maybe we too exist in a realm where there is no time, where the past, present, and future exist as one and our definition of “time” is just a translation or analyzation or perception of what we are within.

To understand this strange new concept of time or time-non-existent, we must think for a moment about light and color.

White light is the equal amount of red, green, and blue light. When we look around us outdoors under the sun we see everything illuminated by white light. Daylight is white light. Though it does not appear as "white" to us, it is nonetheless white light. White light is made up equally of the 3 main colors of the light color spectrum, red, green, and blue. Our atmosphere is hit by white light from the sun but it only allows the color blue to pass through, while red and green are deflected. That is why the sky appears blue. You can also look through specific color filters which inhibit one of the colors of white light and then see an object cast in the color of the other colors remaining in the spectrum of white light. So any or more of the primary colors of white light can be blocked to enable us to see the other two colors instead, but without such method it appears as white light and not as 3 separate colors, red, green, and blue. Just white.

We can easily see red on its own, green on its own, and blue on its own, but put them together, as in red, green, and blue light shone on the same point or along the same line, and we see only white light and not the three that comprise it. Ponder this hypothetical:

What if we compared time to color? Let us say that red was the past, green was the present, and blue was the future. In our existence we can see the red(past), green(present), and blue(future) as 3 seperate colors easily distinguishable. But what if in reality, time was like white light, equally comprised of the 3 colors blended together to exist as one? In other words, like within white light, the past, present, and future were three equal things co-existing at the same exact time with no separation, wholly unset apart from each other. But how could that be possible, one might ask? How could one accept something like that anyway? Hold that deep thought.

To understand this strange new concept of time or time-non-existent, we must think for a moment not just about light and color, but of vibration and sound.

If a tree falls in a forest but no ear is around to hear it, does it make a sound? No. The tree falling or hitting the ground makes vibrations, vibrations are detected by eardrums which translate into signals which are sent into the brain where they are understood as sound. So, if a tree falls but no eardrum is around to hear it, it makes plenty of vibrations but simply no sound. When an eardrum receives the vibrations and sends the signals into the brain for translation, the comprehension of the vibrations by the brain is that of sound. No ear to hear, plenty of vibration, absence of sound. You could argue that sound is not real at all, but merely a perception within the mind; the brain’s way of explaining to itself the meaning behind the vibrations.

We have seen that white light is made up of red, green, and blue yet we can see the red, green, or blue parts of the white light only when some natural or human-made device is used to enhance one of the 3 colors or prevent us from seeing the other two. Thus within the white light the 3 colors are indistinguishable without a means to separate them. We have also seen that sound does not exist outside the mind, but that vibrations are translated and understood as sound within the mind, ergo just our imagination. It’s all in the mind.

So to sum up, “sound” is the brain’s way of understanding vibrations, and white light appears as only one color until something is used to separate one primary color from the three to let it be visible to us. So now imagine that “time” is only one present “now” rather than comprised of past, present, and future; and we exist in a space where there is no time behind us and no time in front of us, but only the white light which includes what we understand as the red light(past), green light(present) and blue light(future) all combined as one….while we have the eardrum and brain’s equivalent of intercepting and understanding vibrations into sound; and the light filter’s equivalent of separating and sensing the 3 main colors of white light, that intercept, separate, sense, and understand the combined oneness of time-unmoving. You did not begin reading this post 3 minutes ago (or 14 minutes ago for those who are slower) from now, and you won’t finish it 30 seconds from now. You are reading it now, you began reading it now, and you finished reading it now. But the passage of time was a trick of the mind, a tool or device, to separate the first now and the third now from the present now in order to give the reading meaning. You were born right now. You reached middle age now. You were married now. You turned 16 now. You had a child now. You saw your child graduate college now. You turned 4 years old now. You saw SW:Episode III now. You grew old and lost bladder control now. You died now. A person born “40 years after” you died (now) turned 26 now. Moses saw a burning bush now. President Lincoln was shot now. You brushed your teeth now. You had your first tooth now. You got dentures now. It all happened now, not before, not later, not then, not after, but now. Except that in your mind the now of now is like white light, and there is something that separates the 3 parts of white light into red, green, and blue so that they can be distinguished and enjoyed separately, understood separately. And so time, like the sound that is understood after the vibrations are received and translated, is what is understood by living beings after the now is received and translated and the 3 aspects of it are separated to be understood. Without that understanding, time does not exist.

I conclude with another way to view this concept of absense of time in the true universe. It is sure to conjur a Spaceballs joke, but oh well. Take a video tape of a movie. You have the start of the movie, the middle, and the end. While watching the middle of the story, the beginning was the past, and the end is the future. The story told in the movie has a timeline just like real life, with a past, present, and future. But turn the tape off, eject it, and step back and look at the video in your hand. The past, present, and future in the movie all exist at the same time right before your eyes. In fact, looking at the tape alone, it has no past, present, and future. It only has the NOW which exists at the same time in front of you. It is only when you watch the movie that the seperation between past, present, and future takes on meaning; otherwise it all blends together. Now imagine that that video is the universe itself, life and existance as we know it. Now imagine stopping the film, ejecting the tape, and holding it in your hand. Right there is the past, present, and future existing at once, as NOW. Like plugging into the Matrix, you turn on your awareness of time movement only when it is translated via some device. Otherwise, it is just NOW.

Eject the tape and stare at it. See it in your mind, the beginning, middle, and end; past, present, and future, existing as now, as one.

That is all for now. See you later. Or now. It’s only a matter of time. Or is it? That was my deep thought for today. Or for now. In another time I will post another of my deep thoughts, but that I will save for another time, a time to come later. Or now. Or before.

:light:
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm SOunds like you're reading up on your Einstein
with a little of Murphy's law added in. Either way I like YOUR WAY
of thinking!

Keep posting 14th Colony! :thumbups:
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Old April 25th, 2004, 02:07 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by The 14th Colony
With no new replies to my time-seperation concept, here is a new deep thought for the day.

I have realized a potentially inevitable problem facing us in our future. Think about all the billions of tons of garbage dumped in trash dumps around the world every year. Think about all the plastic trash bags you seal closed with bubbles of air still inside and throw out. Think about all the empty glass jars and empty plastic soda bottles you throw away every day, every week, every month, every year, through your whole lifetime, but not before screwing closed the airtight lid! Do you realize how much of our air we are throwing away in tightly closed plastic bags and sealed plastic and glass bottles? Good God what are we doing?
Well, not very much, in terms of the problem as presented. Consider: if the entire surface of the planet, including oceans, were covered with a hundred-foot deep layer of sealed plastic garbage, how much of the atmosphere would be thus tied up? A tiny fraction of one percent.
That's not to say that that much sealed garbage wouldn't present a bit of a problem! Just that loss of atmosphere wouldn't necessarily be the worst facet.
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Old April 25th, 2004, 02:10 PM   #39
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Well, not very much, in terms of the problem as presented. Consider: if the entire surface of the planet, including oceans, were covered with a hundred-foot deep layer of sealed plastic garbage, how much of the atmosphere would be thus tied up? A tiny fraction of one percent.
That's not to say that that much sealed garbage wouldn't present a bit of a problem! Just that loss of atmosphere wouldn't necessarily be the worst facet.
Veryyyyyyyyyy GOOD Points Crewmember!
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Old April 25th, 2004, 02:11 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Rowan
in case your interested in art and blind people..

http://www.artagogo.com/commentary/a...rtforblind.htm
Cool Link Rowan! Thanks for posting it!
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Old April 25th, 2004, 07:33 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Crewmember
Well, not very much, in terms of the problem as presented. Consider: if the entire surface of the planet, including oceans, were covered with a hundred-foot deep layer of sealed plastic garbage, how much of the atmosphere would be thus tied up? A tiny fraction of one percent.
That's not to say that that much sealed garbage wouldn't present a bit of a problem! Just that loss of atmosphere wouldn't necessarily be the worst facet.
Well, the way I see it, there are a number of factors contributing to our lowering of the oxygen supply. Polution is increasing, the forests are dwindling. There are less plantation to excert new oxygen, and more polution poisoning the present air supply, and so much of what we have being locked away in closed containers. Think of the scene in Spaceballs whene the King of Druidia opened a can of oxygen from his desk drawer and breathed the contents in. Someday we might be scrambling to garbage dumps to rummage through the trash to desperately unscrew as many bottles as we can find, and puncture trash bags, to snort down those precious amounts of stored away oxygen.

And then you have to take into account the outragious number of humans and animals who flatulate so often that there isn't a single second of a day where there isn't somebody farting somewhere. Our air would be so much cleaner if everyone would either stop doing that, or do it more sparingly. Heck, how many peeps broke wind while reading this post alone, I wonder?
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Old April 25th, 2004, 07:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by shiningstar
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Sounds like you're reading up on your Einstein with a little of Murphy's law added in. Either way I like YOUR WAY
of thinking!

Keep posting 14th Colony! :thumbups:
Actually, I haven't read any Einstein at all. I've been wanting to read his theory of relativity and the writings of Newton and others, but it is too complex for me. I had a head injury when I was a young teen that severely lessened my ability to comprehend complex science and math. I have come a long way since then but certain things are still tough for me to fully grasp. But sometimes I have a clearing of the gray clouds, so to speak, and my mind begins to spin in ways shown by my ideas in this thread. It's as if my inner mind awakens and then spews out complex ideas that I don't have a way of describing scientifically but in rather layman's terms. I actually had that thought about the seperation of time while waiting on line at the McDonald's drive through, which was a very odd place to have such a thought since I prefer Burger King and go there far, far, more often.

But I like that you like my way of thinking. Has that migraine cleared up?
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Old April 25th, 2004, 07:47 PM   #43
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You know, it's deep thoughts like that which remind me we really need Mr. Fusion from Back to the Future!!
Indeed. We are throwing away the future of time travel along with our air supply!!!
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Old April 25th, 2004, 07:49 PM   #44
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Yes! pathophysiology killed me! yes I suppose I could look at it that way but when does my little brain get a break? LOL! 14th! are you a tough task master?
Well I've never been into bondage, but if you enjoy the whip, then wrack that brain, wench! Wrack it!
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Old April 25th, 2004, 08:16 PM   #45
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I used "wench" with complete humor and respect, I hope you understand.
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Old April 25th, 2004, 08:34 PM   #46
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Well, the way I see it, there are a number of factors contributing to our lowering of the oxygen supply. Polution is increasing, the forests are dwindling. There are less plantation to excert new oxygen, and more polution poisoning the present air supply, and so much of what we have being locked away in closed containers. Think of the scene in Spaceballs whene the King of Druidia opened a can of oxygen from his desk drawer and breathed the contents in. Someday we might be scrambling to garbage dumps to rummage through the trash to desperately unscrew as many bottles as we can find, and puncture trash bags, to snort down those precious amounts of stored away oxygen.

And then you have to take into account the outragious number of humans and animals who flatulate so often that there isn't a single second of a day where there isn't somebody farting somewhere. Our air would be so much cleaner if everyone would either stop doing that, or do it more sparingly. Heck, how many peeps broke wind while reading this post alone, I wonder?
LOL 14th!!! I can see it now, beans a controlled substance due to global warming...
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Old April 25th, 2004, 08:46 PM   #47
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Another deep thought cometh.

What does the world look like through the eyes of a blind person?

A blind person knows they cannot see, yet how do they know what "seeing" is? If all they have known was a world of darkness, how can they comprehend what a world of light would reveal? How do they think other people. those with full sight, see the world around them?

How do blind people dream?

How do they imagine the appearance of things they have never had sight to verify?

Do they think in color? Might their minds perceive colors our own minds could not have imagined?

Might a person blind since birth, having suddenly gained full sight, be relieved to see the world is better than they imagined...or dissappointed that it was not as fantastic as they had pre-visualized?

If future science somehow invented a way for a sighted person and a blind person to see into the other's minds to share each other's visions of the world and life itself, imagine how each person would experience the other person's visual memories compared to their own.

Imagine having a blind person work for ILM or any sci-fi special effects company, designing space ships and aliens. They would surely come up with shapes and styles we could possibly never imagine. I would be interested to see drawings of everyday objects made by blind people. Whether you can draw or not, try drawing something with your eyes closed and then look to see how close it is to another you drew with your eyes open. I wonder how close or different a drawing made by a blind person, and by a sighted person with his eyes closed, would be to each other, of the same subject.



Sometimes, I have awoken from dreams I had trouble remembering. I couldn't recall the dream itself, yet I had vague images of something or set of things I saw, that I knew were from the dream but could not form a shape or color to the images to see what they were. Other times I've awoken with clear as crystal memories of what I saw in my dreams. But I wonder if the vague, hard to distinguish images are some of what a blind person attributes to the objects he touches, hears, or is told about. In other words, I wonder if the images he creates to identify what he knows is around him, are crystal clear, or vague and hard to define.



Have you watched M.A.S.H.? In one episode Hawkeye Pierce was blinded by an explosion, and they didn't know if it was temporary or permanant. Pierce wanted to go back to work and assist regardless of his blindness. At the operating table where the other surgeons were stitching the insides of a severely wounded soldier, Hawkeye sensed that the perforated bowel was not fully stitched, by sense of smell. No other doctor detected it by smell, or saw the loose stitch by sight. In another, non-medical instance, it was raining and Hawkeye noted that the rain hitting the ground sounded like sizzling steak on a grill. He also was able to hear distant incoming helicopters before anyone else could (Radar was good at doing that, though he wasn't blind), and realized that without his sight all of his other senses had been highly enhanced to compensate.

So from a certain point of view, a blind person might be seeing more of the world than we ever can. Like I said, from a certain point of view.

More to come, at some point later. That's right, I did say "later", which comes now from a certain point of view.
Very insightful 14th colony keep posting.
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Old April 25th, 2004, 08:48 PM   #48
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Well, the way I see it, there are a number of factors contributing to our lowering of the oxygen supply. Polution is increasing, the forests are dwindling. There are less plantation to excert new oxygen, and more polution poisoning the present air supply, and so much of what we have being locked away in closed containers. Think of the scene in Spaceballs whene the King of Druidia opened a can of oxygen from his desk drawer and breathed the contents in. Someday we might be scrambling to garbage dumps to rummage through the trash to desperately unscrew as many bottles as we can find, and puncture trash bags, to snort down those precious amounts of stored away oxygen.

And then you have to take into account the outragious number of humans and animals who flatulate so often that there isn't a single second of a day where there isn't somebody farting somewhere. Our air would be so much cleaner if everyone would either stop doing that, or do it more sparingly. Heck, how many peeps broke wind while reading this post alone, I wonder?
Not me
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Old April 25th, 2004, 08:48 PM   #49
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Well, the way I see it, there are a number of factors contributing to our lowering of the oxygen supply. Polution is increasing, the forests are dwindling. There are less plantation to excert new oxygen, and more polution poisoning the present air supply, and so much of what we have being locked away in closed containers. Think of the scene in Spaceballs whene the King of Druidia opened a can of oxygen from his desk drawer and breathed the contents in. Someday we might be scrambling to garbage dumps to rummage through the trash to desperately unscrew as many bottles as we can find, and puncture trash bags, to snort down those precious amounts of stored away oxygen.

And then you have to take into account the outragious number of humans and animals who flatulate so often that there isn't a single second of a day where there isn't somebody farting somewhere. Our air would be so much cleaner if everyone would either stop doing that, or do it more sparingly. Heck, how many peeps broke wind while reading this post alone, I wonder?
Not me
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Old April 26th, 2004, 02:19 PM   #50
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I used "wench" with complete humor and respect, I hope you understand.
LOL 14th! if you followed my activities in the Thwack thread you would know there is no need to explain yourself
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Old April 26th, 2004, 02:21 PM   #51
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Well I've never been into bondage, then you don't know what you are missing.... but if you enjoy the whip, ssshhhh not here ...then wrack that brain, wench! Wrack it!
slave driver!
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Old April 26th, 2004, 02:25 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by shiningstar
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm SOunds like you're reading up on your Einstein
with a little of Murphy's law added in. Either way I like YOUR WAY
of thinking!

Keep posting 14th Colony! :thumbups:
Actually it has some similarities to the explanation of the way time functions within balck holes that Stephen Hawking made in his book "a brief history in time" so if you like that kind of thing I highly recomend it. It's a relatively easy read, he walks you through it step by step, and uses every day examples to help explain it, some of it's hard to understand but I find the more I read it the more clear it becomes.
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Old April 26th, 2004, 06:49 PM   #53
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And then you have to take into account the outragious number of humans and animals who flatulate so often that there isn't a single second of a day where there isn't somebody farting somewhere. Our air would be so much cleaner if everyone would either stop doing that, or do it more sparingly. Heck, how many peeps broke wind while reading this post alone, I wonder?
You know, that's something that has plagued my philosophical musings since I first began to think all those endless months ago. Any theoretical physicists here are welcome to answer this query: What would happen if, as unlikely a mathematical possibililty that it is, if every single person and animal capable of it farted throughout earth at exactly the same moment of time? The very thought of such a potential catastrophe has woken me in the middle of the darkest nights in a cold sweat.

By the way, I wouldn't be worried about all the human farts. It is a matter of biological fact that the worst offenders are our bovine friends. Those cows are horrible, I think they're lactose intolerant. And they release methane into our atmosphere.
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Old April 26th, 2004, 07:36 PM   #54
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one of the worst destroyers of the ozone layer are the super sonic jets every time they break the sound barrier! but bovines do their share. lets just look at the manure production alone

"most manure is not returned to the land. animal waste in the US amounts to 2billion tons annually, equivalent to the waste of almost half of the worlds human population much of the nitrogen-containing waste from livestock is converted into ammonia and into nitrates, which leach into the groundwater beneath the soil or runs directly into surface water, thus contributing to high nitrate levels in the rural wells which tap the groundwater. In streams and lakes, high levels of waste run off contribute to oxygen depletion and algae overgrowth. American livestock contribute five times more harmful organic waste to water pollution than do people and twice that of industry" p.84 Diet for a small Planet by Frances Moore Lappe 1982

also p. 89 "today livestock consume close to one-half the world's grain output and by 1985 are expected to eat even more grain than people do"

p. 69 "for every 16 lbs of grain and soy fed to beef cattle in the US we only get 1 lb back in meat on our plates. the other 15 lbs are inaccessible to us. 16 lbs of grain has twenty-one times more calories and eight times more protein - but only three times more fat-than a pound of hamburger."
"if we exclude dairy cows, the average ratio of all US livestock is 7 lbs of grain and soy fed to produce 1 lb of edible food. thus, of the 145 million tons of grain and soy fed to our beef cattle, poultry , and hogs in 1979 , only 21 million tons were returned to us in meat, poultry, and eggs. the rest 124 millons tons of grain and soybeans become inaccessible to human consumption...if cooked , it is the equivalent of 1 cup of grain for every single human being on earth every day for a year"

So why are there people still starving on our planet?! We don't need to send money we need to cut down on our meat consumption for several reasons!


Food for thought LOL!
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Old April 26th, 2004, 08:56 PM   #55
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Damn, that sounds like a lot of bull$hit, Rowan. Not that I don't believe it, it's just a lot of bull$hit that the article is about. LOL
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Old April 26th, 2004, 09:02 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Stray Viper
You know, that's something that has plagued my philosophical musings since I first began to think all those endless months ago. Any theoretical physicists here are welcome to answer this query: What would happen if, as unlikely a mathematical possibililty that it is, if every single person and animal capable of it farted throughout earth at exactly the same moment of time? The very thought of such a potential catastrophe has woken me in the middle of the darkest nights in a cold sweat.

By the way, I wouldn't be worried about all the human farts. It is a matter of biological fact that the worst offenders are our bovine friends. Those cows are horrible, I think they're lactose intolerant. And they release methane into our atmosphere.
I have also thought long and hard about such a potential disaster. First, the sound would be deafening. But wait, we've seen it happen already! It wasn't the burning tylium that blew up Carillon, it was all the Ovians farting at the same time!
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Old April 26th, 2004, 09:02 PM   #57
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Yup lots and lots and lots of manure! LOL!
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Old April 26th, 2004, 09:14 PM   #58
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Boy, this discussion really stinks, huh? It has really gone to crap. lol
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Old April 28th, 2004, 08:29 PM   #59
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Yeah, it feels like it's been a waste.

And, as usual, it seems like any useful wisdom in this discussion went in one way and out the other!
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Old April 28th, 2004, 08:47 PM   #60
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*Groan* you too are sooooo bad!
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