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Old March 23rd, 2003, 09:21 AM   #1
LordStarFyre
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Default Fans don't do this to Fans

You know, I'm getting real tired of all the nonsense statements from the Moore Fans about how we're so mean and Evil because we don't agree with them.

A whole thing has arrisen because someone referred to Trek fans in a bad light.

Well, let me put it this way, these Moore Fans have used their Fan Status as Trek Fans, and Moore's History with Star Trek as their justification for why this re-imagining, in the image of Trek, of Galactica.

Many, if not most of these folks, cared little or nothing about Galactica. They came for Moore, BECAUSE HE WAS A TREK WRITER.

Well, instead of backing the Fans of Galactica to save their show, they came in and have worked hard to oppose us.

I can bet they would have been hell pressed to find Galactica Fans, or Farscape fans, or others, who would have done the same things they've done.

Fans don't do what they've done to other fans.

In the process, it's other Fans of Star Trek who should be most mad at these Moore Followers.

How would these folks react if the Production team from B-5 came along and threatened to Re-Imagine TOS Trek, or DS9, and used the successes of B-5 as their reasoning.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 09:43 AM   #2
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It sounds to me like there are many in this camp who are simply using this as an excuse to feed their egos by putting someone down to make themselves seem better. In that kind of case, facts don't matter.

The best thing we can so, or anyone for that matter, is to follow your own principles, try not to put down opposing pov's (why waste energy opposing someone that you could use to express your own vision?), and carry on. People like that only affect you of you let them.

Think of all the energy they're wasting on something that isn't really important to them, aside from ego- is Moore going to reward their actions when all is done? I doubt it.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 09:51 AM   #3
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Default Don't get me wrong

Micheleh;

It's wrong to Lump ALL in any group into a negative, or positive light. There are schmucks of all groups.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 09:57 AM   #4
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that is the thing that is most hurtfull, they came for the writer and not bsg. i would never go against a group of fans trying to revive thier show. they started defending his script like it was the holy grail. it has never of on film yet it is gods work.

oh my god, would trek fans hit the roof if people from b5 tried to re-invent st:tos or ds9. but yet it is all right for bsg. they would try thier best to destroy any person that came to defend the people from b5. yet we are the bad guys.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 10:13 AM   #5
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Let me specify- 'them' refers to the people who are simply havng a good time by trashing a series and prople they know or care little or nothing about.

Better?
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 11:48 AM   #6
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Default Tossing out the Baby

I wrote a rant about this in the true colors thread and won't repeat much other than to say ....

There are some really good folks among the Neos. Weeding them out from the cesspool is no longer worth my time. I'm tossing the baby out with the bathwater in this case because the bathwater is just too putrid.

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Old March 23rd, 2003, 03:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by LordStarFyre
How would these folks react if the Production team from B-5 came along and threatened to Re-Imagine TOS Trek, or DS9, and used the successes of B-5 as their reasoning.
I'd celebrate like it was 1999 if that were true.
You are assuming that it is a man that people are supporting when it fact for people like me it is a body of work and experience that we can look at and evaluate.

Taking the success and the new ground broken by B-5 into consideration as my reasoning for not condemning it outright.
In fact I'd not only look at not only the success of Babylon 5, but at the track record of its creator.
Strazenski background includes almost experience in about every form of media.
Literary, animation, comics, genera television (and a he has Hugo award).
And I have enjoyed his work in most of these mediums.
He did Captain power, the real ghost busters, He-Man

Then I'd see that he could not only bring his talents but the talents of his Hugo award winning Science Fiction writer chums like Harlan Ellison as writing talent and creative consultants.

Likewise with my support of DeSanto & Singer.
The body of work & accomplishments they brought to the table was not huge.
But there success on the first X-Men movie showed me that they could bring a visually stunning presentation and an engaging story even under the budget constraints and studio pressure they were working under.
Even tho they had to compromise in some areas the result was a blockbuster.
Heh, I remember tho people up in arms because he wanted to recast certain characters and not have Apollo involved till later in the series, and even because he might not use the original Galactica shooting model!
Well that one went down in flames (Score one victory for the fans eh?)

So then along came Ron Moore.
I'll have to admit thinking at first that only being a Trek writer gave him a handicap in telling the kinds of story that Galactia is known for.
There was also not a huge body of work to consider, but it is an impressive body both written and executive that included a Hugo award for writing and dramatic presentation.
I could look at that body and it determine that the guy *IS* capable of delivering well crafted multiple episode story and character arks that are both action packed and dramatic.
Also to his credit was a mildly successful original series that generated a fan base strong enough to save that show from cancellation giving it a pretty successful 3-year run.
So with the exception of Voyager and Star Trek: Generations I have found his work pretty solid and enjoyable.

But since nothing short of a continuation with the 100% involvement of Richard Hatch is going to satisfy the hardcore fandom it really doesn't matter how many qualifications or what kind of track record anyone has who comes to the table with anything else.
Isaac Asimov, Steven Spielberg and ILM could have been at the helm of this project and it wouldn't make a difference.
I realized that once I had a chance to Read the actual script instead of just relying on the rumors & lies about the story from the reviewers, I was able to see that while not perfect the story it is as solid a piece of televised Sci-Fi as I have seen.
I saw that instead of removing the mythological & spiritual elements that I enjoyed from the original, Moore had actually maintained and expanded upon the religious and spiritual beliefs of the colonials. Even tho I wish that there could have been more of a fight between the Cylons and the new Fleet I have to applaud the human face to the extermination of the colonies. Instead of the cowardly Commander that I had heard so much about I instead say a man so appalled by what had happened that he was willing to go down fighting.
Instead of the dysfunctional father son hatred that is still dwelled on, I saw 2 adult men coming to terms with a painful loss and develop a stronger bond in the end because of it.

I am a fan of the original series.
But I am not so in love with the original cast that they have to be present for me to enjoy the story.
It might be more accurate to say that I am more a fan of the themes, elements and scenarios presented by the original, because I feel that the original story can benefit from a retelling of some sort to make it more coherent. So I could enjoy a continuation or a remake equally.
So when I see not only a solid story but also 2 Oscar award-winning actors (one o them a golden globe winner as well).
A top-flight effects house (the same effects guys that DeSanto were going to go with)
He is keeping the Classic Cylon soldiers, and the classic colonial Ship & fighter designs as well as a few new designs for flavor. And as I said above the overall themes including the idea of human survivors on the run from the cylon empire is ALL INTACT.
So even with David Eiks and Michael Rymer, who are the weakest links in this entire scenario, I would take it over empty the promises made by people with their "insider sources".
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 03:27 PM   #8
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Default Well then Hito

...Sounds like you're gonna be tickled pink, you're gonna get all the Ron Moore Galactica you can handle.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 03:43 PM   #9
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You know what.
It is pointless to talk to people like you.
I just got through telling you that i can give a fuc|< if it was Ron Moore or someone else with equal or better credentials as long as they maintained a majority of the themes i liked in from the original.
And you throw that moore $hit back at me again.
Moore can go to hell for all i care.
But u cant stop riding Hatch's jock long enough to let Galactica come back.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 04:23 PM   #10
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Default Wow Hito

"But u cant stop riding Hatch's jock long enough to let Galactica come back."

Touchy, Touchy.

I've never ridden Richard's Jock, so I suppose if you were looking for a description of it, I'd be the wrong one to ask.

As for your outburst of emotion, Hito, you seem to miss the point. In your defences of Moore, his casting decision, etc, thet he, and this remake abandon that "majority of the themes" from the original.

If someone with some actual ability (ie DeSanto) came along and said "I'm gonna remake it" and he wasn't going to overwrite everything, I could live with it. I don't disagree with you on that.

Ron Moore has already proven, time and again, he isn't up to the task...
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 04:56 PM   #11
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Default They shoot rabid dogs,

so be glad they don't treat rabid fans the same way!

The exchanges in this thread demostrate the passion people feel about BSG and the best way to revive it. There are "rabid" fans on both ends of the spectrum: those who will accept nothing but a continuation starring Richard Hatch and Dirk Benedict, and those who will accept nothing but Ronald D. Moore's vision of mental handjobs and a female Starbuck.

Take a step back, gentlemen, and remember who you are and where you are.

This forum, I have seen, represents the group who feel that a continuation or faithful retelling would be the best way to revive BSG. Milton's (whoever the hell he is) forum is home to hard-core RDM fans.

BFD. Slams and flaming from either side is both childish and counterproductive for both sides.

We each have made our opinions known to the Powers That Be. They have made and are still making, apparently, their choices. The impending sales may change things, they may not. One way or another, I think the chances are pretty slim that they will send out copies of the shooting script just so that we can see what they're doing; they'll probably drop hints and dribbles of information, maybe some misdirection, and will laugh themselves silly looking at the wars they start between bboards.

Let me tell you all, point blank and no politeness, that there are problems with both sides of this pointless argument. Some of the aspects of the RDM version I have heard about leave me cold - it's a remake of Star Trek with a new name. I think changing the genders of two of the central characters is rediculous, and completely alters a positive dynamic that was in the original. I'm afraid that this vision will gut what made the Battlestar Galactica story so great.

At the same time, that single season of BSH had it's problems too. My god, the story is incredible, the potential endless. I love watching them. But the writing often did not live up to the story's potential. The performances were wooden; some because the material was lacking, of course, but some because there wasn't a lot of acting talent. The FX? If I see that formation of three Cylon fighters from behind, the laser fire tracking from the lower left until the center Cylon explodes (you know the scene), I'll scream.

Granted, much of that had to do with the fact ABC rushed it into production to catch the Star Wars wave of popularity. I know I do my worst work when I'm rushed, so I'm amazed at episodes like Living Legend, where the writing was some of the best of the series.

Studio execs are going to be quick to pick up on the flaws of an original, if there is any kind of discussion about reviving a franchise like BSG.

It has been 25 years since the series was produced. The technology of presenting a story like that as made quantum advances in that time.

I'm with Hito in that I love the story more than I love the actors who played in it when I was a kid. I would love to see the same story retold with that modern technology.

I've spent way too much time on this. I know my words will not convince a rabid fan (the true fanatic) on either side that the truth is really somewhere in the middle. I can only hope we can keep our differences from spilling over and spoiling this wonderful forum, and that whatever the BattleStar Galactica movie turns out to be it is something that we all can enjoy.

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Old March 23rd, 2003, 07:25 PM   #12
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Ok, everyone take a walk. If you still have problems when you come back, IM me. (Hito, IM yourself, lol!)

"Sounds like you're gonna be tickled pink, you're gonna get all the Ron Moore Galactica you can handle."


Hito has every right to express his sincere opinion of what he likes. So either production would please him- that's cool. (The jock comment is just totally over the top, though.)

"But since nothing short of a continuation with the 100% involvement of Richard Hatch is going to satisfy the hardcore fandom it really doesn't matter how many qualifications or what kind of track record anyone has who comes to the table with anything else."

That's too extreme, as well. Its not either white or black. Everyone here has their own reasons for liking it, not liking it, or somewhere in between. Jumping on each other won't help anything.

"I've spent way too much time on this. I know my words will not convince a rabid fan (the true fanatic) on either side that the truth is really somewhere in the middle."

Thanks, but we all have our own truth on the matter. Inflammatory remarks won't help anything.

(Ok, have I ticked everyone off equally? Lol...)

Time to cool off.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 08:00 PM   #13
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Default ("Truth" -

Probably a poor word choice on my part. "Reality" might have been better.)

Good Ol' michelh - always the voice of reason. You are a treasure, and I hope the people here realize that.

Actually, hon, I wasn't mad. I was upset that all of a sudden some of the people I've come to respect in my short time here were at each other's throats; not just in this thread, but elsewhere, too.

You and Warrior have the right of it, of course, and I fully support that vision for this forum.

(FYI, I did not mean my words to be inflammatory, rather I intended them to be thought provoking. If you or others find my postings to be mean-spirited and inflammatory, though, I will withdraw. I will not be a source of contention within an arena I support and admire.)

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Old March 23rd, 2003, 08:45 PM   #14
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Default Micheleh?

I never said Hito didn't have a complete right to Like the Remake. Short of having anything but a Patheticly bad script, some woefully inadequate casting choices, and a Producer who fancies himself the next incarnation of George Lucas, I'm at a loss as to what there is to enjoy about it, but cest la vie.

As for his fixation on Richard's Jock, I'm clueless as to where that came from, but again, he has a perfect right to his own likes and dislikes.

As do I.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 09:00 PM   #15
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Default LSF, an idea!

Just post the the "Super Double Ultra Secret's", maybe then some will see the light, eh?
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 09:03 PM   #16
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"As for his fixation on Richard's Jock, I'm clueless as to where that came from, but again, he has a perfect right to his own likes and dislikes."

Uh huh, very funny. Not. Can we drop that one and leave it behind? I insist.
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Old March 23rd, 2003, 09:04 PM   #17
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Default By your command

I'll drop the jock...
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