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Old April 29th, 2004, 03:53 AM   #32
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I'm no physicist, but I am aware that the current theories being bandied about are a mix of cause-and-effect and chaos theories, depending on whether you are talking about macro- or micro- aspects of the physical universe.
My point is that neither of the allows what are known as personal responsibility. If everything is cause and effect, everything one does is determined by external factors, either genes or the environment. And you can`t blame anyone for that, can you? Alternatively, if it is pure chance, nothing is responsible for it, neither the person or the environment it lives in.

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Morality, if you will. Your arguments may well be valid for talking about atomic energies and stellar motions
That is relevant, because the brain is buildt up of atomic energies! The brain obeys the physical laws and constrains that everyting else in the universe is affected by. Why should the human brain be so special? Actually, there are several signs that the human brain is affected by cause and effect relationships. Lobotomy alters the way a person thinks and acts. Chemical substances alter they way human beings act. Depression can now be seen on brain scans! How could all this be possible if human emotions and actions were not to a large degree governmed by cause and effect relationships.

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but they have little to do with members of society behaving in a manner either beneficial or detrimental to that society.
This is mixing up the issues. It one thing to punish or reward people for doing things that are detrimal or beneficial to society. this can be done without personal responisibily existing. Personal responsibility is that people are somewhat to blame for their actions. Even if free will does not exists, it would be rational to reward and punish. This is not the same as the person that does the act is evil and desverve to be punished!

The practial difference is the harshness of the punishment. You get a lower income if you don`t work in Norway, but you don`t starve. We have punishment for crimes, but no death penalty. That is because many of us think that punishment and rewards are rational, but they don`t neccessarily "deserve it".

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Human behavior is not by chance, each individual makes conscious (or unconscious) decisions.
Which is not an argument for free will per se. These decisions may very well be the direct effect of a number of earlier causes that has affected the human being in question.

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I take responsibility for the actions I choose to take - that's the right way of doing things. Too many people blame others for their actions.
Well, that depends on the action. Sure, you decide to use drugs or chop your leg off, but your economic status is actually not your choice alone! If you are to get money, you either have to sell your product or get someone to hire you. That implies the acceptance of other people, which means that your economic status is not a direct consequence of your choices alone, but a combination of your choices and the choices of other people, implying that conservatives are actually holding people responsible for the choices of other people, and not just their own.
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