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-   -   Remastered BattleStar Galatica? (http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17221)

KJ May 11th, 2010 02:34 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper
Some Opinions are never more valid then someone else's Opinions. You may get more people to agree with your opinion, but that does not make it more Valid, simply more acceptable

So you say, then again they'd be YOUR opinions in relation to the opposing aruging views put forth by somebody else (or albeit groups) and not the reality of it said discussion. Take a look at my country's government right now for example. Its 'Hung' in the literal sense of the word right now, and MP's are all in a twist as to who to back, but does it really matter when the Tories of this country are practically sitting in the driver's seat because of their opinions and politics got'em there in the first place? Doesn't matter if what they're saying is seen as opinion in the "commons" and goes around in an endless debate, their more acceptable way of thinking/opinions and political viewpoints i.e. opinions on how to "Govern" put'em there in the first place.

Some opinions ARE more valid, its a basic fact deny it all you want to. But it'll be harder to do so, in the face of proof or facts backing up a much stronger arguement however! quibbling simply cos you got another viewpoint which differs from somebody else's, doesn't make the situation disappear or change the undeniable facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper
While you argue your side here, do not loose fact that not everyone will agree with you. And sometimes passion for a cause can put off people who do share your opinion, when you let that passion get away from you.

Yes so agreed, and while i've been around this fanbase, i've seen time and effort being wasted on things that had absolutely no fruitful promises pay off. So i'm more than speaking from previous experience right there! And i didn't share whomever's passion when they lost me neither! I've said before there was no ego in this thing from me and others, go back and re-read this entire thread post by post if need be. What your saying doesn't apply to me nor those sharing my opinions, believe that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
In a word, yes. For the same reason that fifteen years from now the 1933 King Kong will still be regarded better than the flash in the pan that was Jackson's.

Good then do so.

Cos if and when either Galactica Fanbase(s) (we aren't the only ones?) puts out SE projects of its own or there's an official SE Restoration of Battlestar Galactica from Universal. We'll all be hopefully enjoying a HD version with touchups that keep the old girl from being left behind quality-wise, and BG would benefit from the modern day digital advances in technology.


At the end of the day, myself and others can lead you to water like a horse (metaphorically speaking) but we can't make you drink?

But a 'horse' has to drink something? eventually doesn't it!

KJ

KJ May 11th, 2010 02:38 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
P.S. How exactly long do you think the old 'negatives' from the series will last? Thus effecting and compromising a "restoration" project endeavour of anykind (official or fanbase driven!).

Even if you don't wholly agree with an debate, you could at least say you'd wish for a another release that keeps the series from becoming unusable in the future far as formats are concerned.

KJ

gmd3d May 11th, 2010 02:39 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon (Post 300391)
In a word, yes. For the same reason that fifteen years from now the 1933 King Kong will still be regarded better than the flash in the pan that was Jackson's.

That is my definition of "common sense." To paraphrase Adama in LL, it may not be others, but it is, as others have at least acknowledged an equally valid perspective relative to this issue.


I agree that the original King Kong will be still regarded better than Jackson .. Originals usually are. and the original BSG is still regard the same way over it recent remake (we wonīt go there )

As many think that Sean Conneryīs Bond is still the best over any other bonds that followed ... yet each younger generation will possibly argue for Roger Moore . Timothy Dalton etc etc

your always going to get that .


one of the points we have made is that ( We Feel ) at the current condition of the visual Effects (Space Craft etc) is not holding up well after 30 plus years and while the life action is solid and wonderful.

the visuals are letting it down ..... for example

one of the master shots of the Galactica you can see the support of the Galactica Model as its moving across the screen...

now this blows the whole impact of the effect and I am no longer looking at a mighty space ship in Space .... I am looking at a 79 inch plastic and wooden model in a studio some where in the Hollywood hills.

I have added a screen capture from my DVD set to illustrate..

thatīs one if the shot that could stand a change and a remastering ....

Lucas saw the same thing in Star Wars Trilogy and changed it and cleaned it up for future sales and to ensure the quality was up to that future viewership.

BSG will remain a classic all right, and it will possibly be in the same group as The forbidden Planet ...... I would have it remain where it should be .. as in the same classic group as Star Wars and Star Trek ....

there are many fan forums about the above but I have not seen many for FP

if its believed that keeping BSG as it is will attracted new fans as Star Wars Star Trek do...... its a short sighted view that will ultimately push BSG into the Group as the original King Kong and Forbidden Planet George Pals films.

people that sentimentally watch these old sci-fi keep them around and they should not be touched as they donīt need them .. its not necessary as they are perfect as they are

relevant to the effects of the time.

BSG is not effects wise holding up well .. its too grainy, lots of noise on the screen.

thatīs the honest truth..... and if were all honest when we view it we should see that to keep it fresh and insure its future .. it needs to be remastered cleaned up and presented afresh ...

Effect can be shot the same angles and intent . I donīt care but I will never buy another DVD SET with the effects as they are .. if I lost my valued BSG set I would still not go out and by the set again because of that disappointment that I feel when I see how poorly they are holding up when I bought it a few years ago. the stories are still as wonderful as when I first saw it.

Lucas saw it and corrected it .. insuring Star Wars trilogy a place for a long time to come .......

Battlestar Galactica deserves no less a treatment IMO

.. again its only my view ... I respect all here and their views..

thanks for reading

Reaper May 11th, 2010 02:50 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
ok, Let's get VERY specific KJ, please present to me the Facts that make Eric's Opinion that the Original broadcast Shows are not good enough. Please prove his opinion wrong.

And I do ask you to be Very specific in your answer. only supply "proof and Facts" that relate to his opinion being wrong please.

Edit - And remember, this is coming from someone who supports creating a SE of the Series.

Something else to note here, Not everyone views the SE of Star Wars as a good thing, I have heard a growing army of voices that feel Lucas Killed Star Wars by making ANY changes to the Theatrical "Iconic" cuts.

Eric Paddon May 11th, 2010 03:28 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KJ (Post 300393)
Some opinions ARE more valid, its a basic fact deny it all you want to.

Not in this case. Even I have been the first to concede the point that this argument revolves *entirely* around the issues of the subjective. And I come into this with a consistent view that *no* alterations to a film or TV show should be made that rely on technology that was *not* present at the time the film was made. This is not the same thing as going back and re-editing films using only footage shot at the time or restoring an original roadshow cut of a movie that was then cut down for general release. In the case of those restorations, the end product remains a product of its own time which contextually, from an artistic *and* historic standpoint, I believe all films should always be, with no exceptions.

I do not regard the FX to be a component of an end-product in film that is somehow more important than any other element that is necessary for the creation of a great film. To me, they must be accepted for what they are and when they were made just as I must accept the fact that a film from the 1970s can't have Humphrey Bogart in it (to cite one off the wall example of what this boils down to). The day films and TV series cease to be recognized as products of their own time is the day we compromise much of the work's overall artistic integrity.

Let's cite another example that goes beyond the realm of FX but proves the same point IMO. If the FX of 1978 are "dated" and thus make it impossible to enjoy the end product today and thus require replacement of said FX, then who is stop someone else from then saying that because big orchestral film scores are out of favor with today's young audiences (and it's a sad fact that the days of the big epic orchestral scores with their signature themes are now gone forever) we should replace the music scores of Galactica and Star Wars etc. with synthesized scores that are more "with it"? And I wouldn't dismiss that because unfortunately there already is precedence for this kind of tampering in a "restoration" when the 1965 western "Major Dundee" was given a totally new score for its recent restoration. If you open up a can of worms in the FX department and sanction it for all time, then you in the end are going to make it possible for further kinds of tinkering
in other areas, and yes, I fully expect that to include colorization if someone really thinks they've come up with a state of the art process. And that isn't something I'm about to give approval to either.

And I also have still not heard an answer that to me coherently addresses the question of *why* does this obession with redoing FX only apply to the end products that in the 1960s and 1970s were absolutely state of the art compared to its contemporaries? I just can not see the logic in saying that work from the 60s and 70s needs to be freshened up but the same old cheap models from "Forbidden Planet" can stay as is, or that "Star Trek" must be altered to be "updated" but you're still going to have a load of anachronistic dialogue about World War III in the 1990s (not to mention Chekov's reference to Leningrad, which thankfully ceased to exist in 1991) that will always be there to remind people of when this was first made. And that ends up giving you an artistic clash of styles on a giant scale that I don't find aesthetically pleasing at all on any level.

Galactica's virtues in what it did at the time should be celebrated, and it should be viewed as a classic leap forward for how FX could be done on television in the same way we view other works of the past as great trailblazers and pioneers for improvements in the future on *other* projects. Merely because you *can* do things better today does not mean that artistically it works to retroactively slap all that back on the works of the past just because one is more popular in some eyes than others and thus can be treated differently. Some people might have their own standard and think otherwise, and its not my place to say that they somehow have a lesser appreciation for what constitutes good and not good aesthetic results. All I can say is that I have my standard, and it stems from a consistent view I take regarding *all* films and TV shows. You can disagree, but you can't call the position inconsistent, nor is it valid to suggest that its a call to enjoy something in low quality. I want to see the *original* work presented in the best quality restored negative etc. today so that the viewing experience can always be like it was for those who first experienced it and not through the experience of beat-up syndicated prints with several minutes missing etc.

KJ May 11th, 2010 03:36 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Edit--

*sigh* Whatever Eric Paddon, the debate is about a 'Remastered' Battlestar Galactica - Go READ "THE THREAD TITLE". This isn't one of your threads where you go off and rant at somebody with any supposed intellectual insights. While the debate is raising awareness of restoring Galatica digitally somewhat its mixing in more elements than just FX and CGI effects, also formats and software that it might be played on. You don't seem to grasp that end of the arguement at all, and see it as another opportunity to whine on as per usual. and if your going to use example use current one, using Forbidden Planet or King Kong because of their age is kinda desperate.

Figure that needs saying, even if you'll have a mod jump in on your behalf. I'm brave enough to be brutally honest.

Anyways... in responce to Reaper who asked...

No Reaper, because if you have been reading this thread entirely they it shouldn't even be a question raised, as if need to bring up proof when the discussion have brought up more than enough facts and points of debate to have this sort of discussion in the first place. Why should i start dancing to anybody's tune simpl cos your not coming up with anything that puts a 'dent' in my or matador's or Taranis arguements.

And please, don't feel that because i'm not going there you made some sort of point against me, cos you haven't.

I fail to see what possible points you've made for for own arguements that Galactica ought remain on a double-sided DVD from 2003 with no restoration effort being made, in light of today's jump to HD-DVD Blu-Ray or IPod/IPhone downloadables etc etc to no end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper
And I do ask you to be Very specific in your answer. only supply "proof and Facts" that relate to his opinion being wrong please

Nope not seeing why, each side should descent there with that. If you weren't so one-sided you'd have launched the same questions at him, he isn't in the right cos he have views similar to yours neither. Besides its already proven you side likes DK's edits, what makes his edit do likable for you, if you don't want a bloody thing altered or changed whatsoever regarding the classic series?

If your such a purist, then even DK's work as a fanedit would automatically be seen as a 'no-no' cos its been altered from the original.

And i'll say it again for those that aren't keeping track of whats being put down in this discussion. I'D WANT THE ORIGINAL SERIES ON THE BLU-RAY UNTOUCHED AS WELL. NEXT TO A BRAND NEW REMASTERED BG SERIES ALA STAR TREK REMASTERED ON BLU-RAY!

:cool:

Going beyond the lackluster attitude of always saying it'll be switched around too much and altered etc. Why don't you back your views with some evidence if your feeling you'd need to take this somewhere's with exhibit A' and B' in a courtroom or something?

If its such a request you're looking for however. Then i'll ask Taranis or Titon or TWB to put up comparison pics to point our the comparison between what a respectful restoration could be like and outline the project if it were to be undertaken, compared to the original shots from the 78 series original that while.

What do you say Taranis? Could you prepare some jpegs of photoshopped comparisons pics of the original with errors and shots fixed but aren't massively altering anything too much.

Next to an outlined list we could possibly put together to outline every *niggle* so that everything is layed out for those still asking themselves what we're asking for this thing!

Also whats views do you hold now, seeing how far this has come,...Matador?

KJ

KJ May 11th, 2010 04:00 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Y'know, i'm gonna go off and get back to making that list, and perhaps talk to like-minded others etc. And with any further possible interest, revisit this debate with something i reckon will grab people's attention better.

For now argue this to your hearts content. Just don't want to see it ruined by off-topic examples set by others!

Peace!

KJ

Reaper May 11th, 2010 04:11 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
So, when asked flat out, you decline to State only Facts and proof. I asked for no arguement, I didn't ask for a recap of your opinion. I asked for the simple facts.

I have indeed followed this thread, and frankly, the reason I asked for these "facts" is simply cause you provided no facts. You have amply provided your opinion, and backed that up with other opinions that happened to support you. But there hasn't been a single FACT presented in this arguement. You are simply relying on being in the majority. that's fine.

But where you fail, is in the RESPECT aspect of any arguement.

It's a telling FACT that you are on shakey ground if you can't convince someone who SHARES your opinion, why he should support you.

Why haven't I asked these same questions to Eric? the answer is simple. While he has argued against you, he has respected your side, and presented his agruement against. He's answered you point for point and made a compelling arguement to the contrary of your position. He has claimed no facts, and not belittled your opinion.

That's the last I'll comment on any of that, I know my point will be lost on a few here, I just hope some do understand what I've said.

Now, that aside, The purpose of this thread is to discuss Remastering the Series. Whether that remasting simply involves restoring the quality of the original prints, a little more editing to remove model stands, but no changes to the content or effects, or replacing said effects with modern effect, this is what we should talk about, and concentrate on. If you don't think any of this should be done, Your opinion is valid, but not on topic (in my opinion of course) Since it is unlikely that Universal will get behind any of this at any point int he near future, this is a fan based effort. No more official then DK's Fan Edits. The goal is just broader. Taking what DK has done and moving it further along.

I do think we need to close this thread, move past what's been argued and start a new topic. The new one should be on topic and not include the debate on whether we should or shouldn't do it. but if we can, and how much can we do.

For better or worse, there is my full opinion. I present it as mine, and mine alone. And I stand behind it.

Eric Paddon May 11th, 2010 04:52 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KJ (Post 300398)
*sigh* Whatever Eric Paddon, the debate is about a 'Remastered' Battlestar Galactica - Go READ "THE THREAD TITLE". This isn't one of your threads where you go off and rant at somebody with any supposed intellectual insights.

Figure that needs saying, even if you'll have a mod jump in on your behalf. I'm brave enough to be brutally honest.

No, it means you're incapable of showing basic civility even AFTER you were told by the Moderators to do so. What a pity that you'd rather presume some arrogant right to indulge in yet another uncalled for personal attack on me just because I register a perspective different from your own. I at least, chose to treat the discussion as a fair-minded exchange in which I don't begrudge the other perspective, so long as there is an understanding of just how serious an issue this whole question raises which for many people like myself is not a trivial matter. It evidently says something for the insecurity of your own position that you can't summon a response in the spirit of what message board discussion is supposed to be about and instead have to take the low-road. And what's laughable is how you then defend your low-road bullying as an exercise in "honesty" that somehow "needed to be said" when the real definition of it is intellectual cowardice of the first order. And that is something that *really* needs to be said because if you want to know who ruined this thread with off-topic personal attacks and smears, all you need to do is look in a mirror. If Taranis and Reaper can make the case for their side without attacks, it surely should be within your capacity to do the same.

BST May 11th, 2010 07:13 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
I really do dislike closing a thread, simply because a person cannot check his or her tongue, at the door. I trust the meaning of that remark is clear to all.

****************

Now, I have several questions.

Except for updating the master copy of the Galactica shows on a medium more durable than currently being used, why is it necessary to "update" the originals with new footage?

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

We all know how others who "re-imagined" things named Galactica were vilified so, will we be doing that to ourselves as well?


Before I go any further, I do want to clarify something -- I am not criticizing anyone for efforts made to broaden the interest of Galactica or to pose "what if" scenarios to favorite scenes or episodes. In fact, I congratulate those, like Dave Kerin, who have the talent and imagination to visually entertain us with different twists on old scenes. Stuff like that is what keeps me interested and coming back.

:)

But, I feel that it is simply an indication of what can be done, not necessarily what should be done.

KJ May 11th, 2010 11:26 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper
So, when asked flat out, you decline to State only Facts and proof. I asked for no arguement, I didn't ask for a recap of your opinion. I asked for the simple facts.

I have indeed followed this thread, and frankly, the reason I asked for these "facts" is simply cause you provided no facts. You have amply provided your opinion, and backed that up with other opinions that happened to support you. But there hasn't been a single FACT presented in this arguement. You are simply relying on being in the majority. that's fine.

But where you fail, is in the RESPECT aspect of any arguement.

It's a telling FACT that you are on shakey ground if you can't convince someone who SHARES your opinion, why he should support you.

HOLD ON. First off i don't share yours or Eric's opinion and i'm not asking you outright to follow or vouch for me. My ground is firm enough thank you. Thats your views right there not mine Reaper, and i'm not going to try to alter anybody's mind or bully anybody on here (thanks for that metaphor even if its incorrect about me though).

We were having a discussion and you got involved. But thats your views on how its gone so far and hence only that? But clearly it isn't the reality of the situation that was started on here Reaper. And since when should a "flat out decline" of anything you've asked me, be seen as weakness of anykind? , can't say holding a view of not engaging the 'tech' questions that Taranis and myself were talking about and matters of bringing up possible other avenues to take this in, could be in anyway shape or form be interpreted as a failure on anybody's behalf.

I told you in repsonce go re-read the thread. if you had done that you'd have examined the articles and posts made since last year, you failed to bring them up thus glazed over what was on the table already arguement wise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper
Why haven't I asked these same questions to Eric? the answer is simple. While he has argued against you, he has respected your side, and presented his agruement against. He's answered you point for point and made a compelling arguement to the contrary of your position. He has claimed no facts, and not belittled your opinion.

WRONG he has obviously belittled and usually does so, but this isn't about him nor am i going there again. But you can't deny the tone of this thread changed in his first posting (40# and 50#) and no certainly hasn't answered me point for point, but feel free to think so. Myself and everyone have made compelling arguements, if you're so honest, then say so and go about crediting everyone and all we've brought up and discussed on here since day one Matdaor started this topic!

Like i said if you read the earlier posts and you haven't? You'd know i agreed on one or two points Eric made before hand, not without some further harsh negativity from the other end of things in responce though. So quit the lack of respect angle, cos its lost here. You haven't exactly come in with bells on saying you disagreed with us, but love our passion for the thread/potential project etc etc etc.

Not taking credit for it, but this thread was dormant until i remember i said a few things i promised i'd get around to and wondered if i should take it up again and ask around (and i have?) Don't act like you had a more valid opinion implying you cared more matador thread, otherwise without DK, matador, Taranis myself and others you'd have been here for months already talking and reviving this thread without me and it'll been ongoing rather than be forgotten about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper
I do think we need to close this thread, move past what's been argued and start a new topic. The new one should be on topic and not include the debate on whether we should or shouldn't do it. but if we can, and how much can we do.

Wow, so don't actually start a thread, but jump in and after a few comments in a discussion/arguement that been going on since last year and ask for it to be closed suddenly. Gee why don't i do that, jump into other people's threads on CF and start arguments and ask for them to be close after a few heated barbs???

Weren't you just on about something called respect!!! :rolleyes:

Arguing going on or not, i like this thread but its isn't mine and i've never claimed it neither. Its Matador's go take this up with him but don't disrespect him by asking for it to be closed at all. I don't go into thread where you and Eric hang out and ask for them to be closed, whether arguing going on or not. You think you say? I think your out of line*, its not your call nor should you be implying that scenario either.

I STAND behind that statement* 110% myself.

I really do dislike closing a thread, simply because a person cannot check his or her tongue, at the door. I trust the meaning of that remark is clear to all.

****************


Oh i'm not going to ruin it for anybody, i came back here to restart a passion and asked Matador in 'private' if he still was interested in his old thread. So while i'm a brutally honest person, i can stay away from arguing when i know the roundabout circle of opinions clogs up a place and i'm better than that. And i won't address whomever i feel is trying to change the tone again. But i just felt Matdaor thread is one of this BG fanbases potential **diamonds in the rough** that should garner more attention.

That attention can do without any foolish ignorance far as i'm concerned. And alot of what Taranis has brought up was fasinating things getting my imagination going.

Don't close anything BST. Allow Matador or Taranis to continue this thread without me if need be. And i'll get back to them once we've debated my list elsewhere's for the discussion on here.

Thank you!

KJ

Matador May 11th, 2010 11:38 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Wow... I was just reading some of the posts... I didn't realize I started such a fire storm and I'm really sorry about that.

I just wanted to share an idea I had... Didn't mean for it to get all heated up. My bad.

I haven't really spent much time reading all the posts on this thread... I just wanted to post some updates.

I'll continue to work on my little project. Hope to continue to hear from you all... I've appreciated some of the great emails and response to my animation. Thanks

I do hope to meet Mr. Larson some day... For I admire his work, idea, and concept... I've always dreamed that I could chat with him some morning over a cup of coffee. Anything is possible... I just hope to follow in his foot steps and produce my own sci-fi show some day.

Cheers all.

gmd3d May 12th, 2010 02:39 AM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matador (Post 300405)
Wow... I was just reading some of the posts... I didn't realize I started such a fire storm and I'm really sorry about that.

I just wanted to share an idea I had... Didn't mean for it to get all heated up. My bad.

I haven't really spent much time reading all the posts on this thread... I just wanted to post some updates.

I'll continue to work on my little project. Hope to continue to hear from you all... I've appreciated some of the great emails and response to my animation. Thanks

I do hope to meet Mr. Larson some day... For I admire his work, idea, and concept... I've always dreamed that I could chat with him some morning over a cup of coffee. Anything is possible... I just hope to follow in his foot steps and produce my own sci-fi show some day.

Cheers all.

no worries mate .. this happens from time to time and thatīs no bad thing either.

as to the other suggestion fixing up the image via photoshop etc I donīt at present have time but I would like to start modeling the Galactica myself but that wonīt be for a while until my present Trek project is wrapped up.


I posted an image showing one of the elements that reduces to quality of the shows impact for me.

its there to view .. I have a large screen TV now and on that it looks as bad in case some wants to suggest it could be my monitor .. so I checked last night if my monitor is at fault.

This is the last observation I am going to make on this and its something that Eric and like minded members are thinking

it is this

with all due respect to your position

1. do you think future generations will accept BSG in it current condition as a going concern and completely watch-able show in say another 10 years time.
and who knows where technology will be then.

2. and given that younger viewers are bombarded with more modern visuals effect films and tv shows.

and lets be honest most modern films / tv are filmed around special effects now and the characters are secondary importance.

you watch them and forget them ..... BSG has survived because the story and the Characters are interesting and fun and Entertaining!!!!!

I think the position that I am have and KJ is that we feel to give BSG an extend life on the video and sales shelves the effects which is apart of the story as they make the story believable??!! . when the Effect fail as I think they are in BSG.

I understand and respect your views for keeping things as they are. bottom line is keep the current quality and you hurt the future for the original BSG .. I firmly believe this. and I would like to see it on TV and DVD shelves for a long time to come in the future.

BST May 12th, 2010 06:39 AM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matador
Wow... I was just reading some of the posts... I didn't realize I started such a fire storm and I'm really sorry about that.


Matador,

Please don't apologize. I relish these types of conversations and I would like to see this site have more of them. A good-natured debate, complete with well-thought arguments is what this place is all about. We don't learn much if we all have the same opinion. That's why I don't have a problem with the topic being debated and would actually like to see more 'meaty' discussions like this taking place.

Where I, or any of the Staff, have to be concerned is when the conversation starts drifting away from the topic and toward the person posting the remarks. That's something that we won't tolerate and is typically where a warning will be 'issued'. Hence, the little siesta that this thread received, over the past weekend.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KJ
Don't close anything BST. Allow Matador or Taranis to continue this thread without me if need be. And i'll get back to them once we've debated my list elsewhere's for the discussion on here.


Jason,

I have no intention to close this thread, as long as what I said in the above paragraph is kept in mind. Like I said, having different opinions is what makes life interesting and we'd be a pretty boring lot if we all shared exactly the same opinion about everything. Please continue to share your thoughts.


Now, does anyone have answers to my questions in the above post?

;)

Reaper May 12th, 2010 08:32 AM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BST (Post 300403)
Now, I have several questions.

Except for updating the master copy of the Galactica shows on a medium more durable than currently being used, why is it necessary to "update" the originals with new footage?

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

We all know how others who "re-imagined" things named Galactica were vilified so, will we be doing that to ourselves as well?

The bottom line to your first question is simply, it doesn't "HAVE" to be done. Even with the Reused SFX, the show stands on it's own. If it didn't, we wouldn't be here right now. There wouldn't be the following that there is, and we might be talking about Buck Rogers, or Flash Gordon. Galactica, as it was presented to us, is GOOD TV. The limitations of tech and money at the time required the reuse of the Permiere's SFX in the show, so that's what we got. But the thing to remember is the Story was told by the actors, not the SFX. And that, other then restoring the QUality of the prints, should not be changed.

To answer your second question, If we were to update these special effects, I think the main goal, that some people are supoporting here, is to add a uniqueness to every space battle. Change establishing shots, make every battle different. Just add Variety to the SFX. Where it "needs" it the most is in the Movie version of "Mission Galactica" where they reuse the Footage of the Galactica (and Fleet) going through the Nova of Madigon to protray the Pegasus moving through a Cylon Minefield. Or in Living Legand, the reuse of the Fog hidden Frieghters from Saga for the 2 Cylon tankers.

In a way this is Reimagining the series, but the idea is to better highlight the acting of the Cast with unique SFX for them.

As you get more into restoring deleted footage and possibly inserting in dropped subplots, then you need to ask yourself more and more if we should do this.

My desire, in supporting these "fan Edits" would be to compliment, not replace the originals. I love David Kerin's fan edits, The work of one man, who obviously loves the show as it was, and wants to put new highlights into the work. If we could get more people working on the same project, we could refine that work to "broadcast quailty" and try to present it to more fans.

That's how I would answer your Questions BST.

gmd3d May 12th, 2010 08:33 AM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BST (Post 300403)

Now, I have several questions.

Except for updating the master copy of the Galactica shows on a medium more durable than currently being used, why is it necessary to "update" the originals with new footage?

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

We all know how others who "re-imagined" things named Galactica were vilified so, will we be doing that to ourselves as well?

But, I feel that it is simply an indication of what can be done, not necessarily what should be done.

I think that some of the problem here is that we all have different ideas of what updating could mean ...

For me I look at it in a few ways or possible approaches that can be done.


1st. A straight clean up and enhancement of what there already is possibly the most agreeable to every one.. for example the last DVD set looks as it there was an attempt to enhance it.. for me it was let down.

if you see the screen capture I posted you can see the model arm and that awful glowing around the ship.. that should not be there ..

2nd. Removing the old effects and either film it with the original models (possibly very few would be still available) using more modern techniques to show off the models and effect to the fullest staying as close to the original camera angles as possible.

esp the Vipers landing that shows the scale a lot better of the hanger and other aspects of the internal lay out if possible.

3rd. same as number 2 but doing it in CGI and attempt to clean up the original to reflect the more modern filming standards and keeping the camera angles as close to the original as possible.

4th. Cgi keeping as above (3rd) but adding some tweaks to expand the experience. ie close ups of Vipers and other craft operating around the Battlestar, Cgi the hanger bay having crew men working around it as Vipers land etc.

showing laser placements and not having the laser look as if there coming from the same place all the time

5th. Cgi completely expand the look and feel as much as possible new camera angles ... thatīs all I can thing of at the moment


Quote:

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?
if we take say option (3rd) using the same camera angles using say CGI staying as true to the original as possible giving due care to what's all ready done giving better scaling for objects ....... I think this would keep the all happy about it.

the film-makers themselves made visual cheats to deal with time restraints would it not be great to see it as they would have like to have done it.

personally I like watching the reworked Star Wars trilogy... more than the original due to the improvements to the quality of the new effect . (things I donīt like its the tampering with some aspect of the live action..( ie Han Solos shooting second in the Cantina But I like where he is running down the hall screaming after some storm trooper and then he faces a whole platoon of troopers .. )

Matador May 12th, 2010 09:03 AM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Well my thoughts regarding this are that a Blue-ray release of the Original BSG would include the original, untouched versions of the show.

But would also include a remastered version... Cleaned up, color corrected, with a few (not a lot), but a few dynamic scenes added. Especially the battle scenes with Vipers and Raiders.

I watched an interview with Larson once and he at the time wished more could have been added, but due to budget and time constraints (getting a weekly show created) caused them to rush a few things. Hence the reuse of those awesome special effects. Over and over again. Many of them only lasting but a few seconds... I remember the actors discussing how they would have to carefully speak their dialog, because they only had a few seconds before the EFX scene in background would run out.

I too love the original shots, models, and external scenes... "I do know" that if Larson was able to do what he really wanted, the scenes would have been much more dynamic.

I just would love to see the show cleaned up to it's original state. The most effecient way would be digitally.

I agree that I wouldn't want to go overboard with new efx or scenes...

But the benefit would be to have both, the original untouched and remastered on a blue-ray edition.

Bottom line is that you don't have to watch it if you don't like it.:cool:

gmd3d May 12th, 2010 09:14 AM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matador (Post 300429)
Well my thoughts regarding this are that a Blue-ray release of the Original BSG would include the original, untouched versions of the show.

But would also include a remastered version... Cleaned up, color corrected, with a few (not a lot), but a few dynamic scenes added. Especially the battle scenes with Vipers and Raiders.

I watched an interview with Larson once and he at the time wished more could have been added, but due to budget and time constraints (getting a weekly show created) caused them to rush a few things. Hence the reuse of those awesome special effects. Over and over again. Many of them only lasting but a few seconds... I remember the actors discussing how they would have to carefully speak their dialog, because they only had a few seconds before the EFX scene in background would run out.

I too love the original shots, models, and external scenes... "I do know" that if Larson was able to do what he really wanted, the scenes would have been much more dynamic.

I just would love to see the show cleaned up to it's original state. The most effecient way would be digitally.

I agree that I wouldn't want to go overboard with new efx or scenes...

But the benefit would be to have both, the original untouched and remastered on a blue-ray edition.

Bottom line is that you don't have to watch it if you don't like it.:cool:


First I donīt know even if I said hi to you Matador..or even welcomed you aboard .. so I will do it now ............."Hi and Welcome aboard" :)

I agree with you on this .... it would be better to have it than not to have it
I personally done believe it will come from the studios as they lack the vision for BSG anyway ..... I read the same thing years ago about Larson wish to have had time to have more effects done

but they where always fighting time .. the enemy for all TV and to a lesser extent films....

it is my thinking that this has not dawned on Larson himself or perhaps it has.. I donīt know .. hell he even may have approached the studios with the idea after seen star wars and the studio said sod off ......

to ensure a commercial future for the classic Galactica something should be done .. that is my thinking .

time will tell

but by then it will perhaps be to late to do anything as KJ mentioned film stock does not last even Lucas had some difficulties.

KJ May 12th, 2010 12:56 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
If its alright to respond then!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Matador
Well my thoughts regarding this are that a Blue-ray release of the Original BSG would include the original, untouched versions of the show*.

But would also include a remastered version... Cleaned up, color corrected, with a few (not a lot), but a few dynamic scenes added. Especially the battle scenes with Vipers and Raiders*.

I watched an interview with Larson once and he at the time wished more could have been added, but due to budget and time constraints (getting a weekly show created) caused them to rush a few things. Hence the reuse of those awesome special effects. Over and over again. Many of them only lasting but a few seconds... I remember the actors discussing how they would have to carefully speak their dialog, because they only had a few seconds before the EFX scene in background would run out.

I too love the original shots, models, and external scenes... "I do know" that if Larson was able to do what he really wanted, the scenes would have been much more dynamic.

I just would love to see the show cleaned up to it's original state. The most effecient way would be digitally.

I agree that I wouldn't want to go overboard with new efx or scenes...


So with you on these shared thoughts*! But i won't reiterate them yet again ad nauseam for the sake of going around in circles etc.

Think thats been made quite clear more than enough. Whats bugging us is that we're aren't moving forward from that statement from the opposing-side, think our thoughts on the matter required something like an 'outline' and have each restoration idea and concept examined as a flowchart of certain elements that needs addressing as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taranis
This is the last observation I am going to make on this and its something that Eric and like minded members are thinking

it is this

with all due respect to your position

1. do you think future generations will accept BSG in it current condition as a going concern and completely watch-able show in say another 10 years time.
and who knows where technology will be then.

2. and given that younger viewers are bombarded with more modern visuals effect films and tv shows.

and lets be honest most modern films / tv are filmed around special effects now and the characters are secondary importance.

you watch them and forget them ..... BSG has survived because the story and the Characters are interesting and fun and Entertaining!!!!!


Exactly what needs to be necessitated quite soon if what we're fearing in terms of the negatives being in a poor state after so long. I look forward to and certainly wish, somebody who was involved with the production comes up; ala 'Steve Sansweet' does for Lucasfilm and says much more footage was filmed but wasn't aired etc. Or that the process of restoring such elements for Battlestar Galactica is possible and it isn't too late.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Taranis
to ensure a commercial future for the classic Galactica something should be done .. that is my thinking

YES THANK THE LORDS!! we're on the same page! :salute:

Er... we're not putting words in each others mouths but i'm just excited in how Taranis phrased all that is all!

Akin to Star Trek Remastered that what truly needs to come about and happen for the Battlestar Galactica fanbase. Heck that why i think so many fan projects exist on the net, because they chance all that legal mumbo-jumbo and try doing so themselves!

So here are some examples we could learn from in terms of how the comparison would be if the Blu-Ray offering gave us the Original & Remastered version on a disc. Shot by shot and minor changes that doesn't alter the story one bit, but definitely give a different perspective of the same action taking place.


Side By Side Comparison of Star Trek Errand Of Mercy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-VOM...eature=related


Star Trek Side By Side Comparison of A Piece Of The Action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=camqh...eature=related


Tribbles BAR FIGHT Side-by-Side Comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6KGO...eature=related


COMPARISON-The Tholian Web

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l44X...eature=related


Further examples to come? Not all Trek related ones neither

KJ

Eric Paddon May 12th, 2010 01:50 PM

Re: Remastered BattleStar Galatica?
 
(Edited hokum deleted)


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