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-   -   08: Living Legend (http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8845)

Senmut September 30th, 2006 08:02 PM

They were able to by using their electronic jamming, and Baltar's duplicity. A new code coming on-line would have been a give-away that something big was up.

KJ October 20th, 2006 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senmut
If anything, this ep deserved to be a three-parter. I so wish we could have seen more on Cain, and his background with Adama. These two obviously have a history, as well as seeing more background on Sheba would have been nice.
I would ask, did Adama and Cain ever serve together, as younger officers?

According to the novelization they did?

See the Berkley's Battlestar Galactica book; War Of The Gods inwhich it reveals Cain and Adama served on the Battlestar Cerberus together in the Cerberus Bronze Squadron Viper strike unit.

This was also further expanded upon in Maximum Press storyline Baptism Of Fire, where we learn the Battlestar Cerberus was under the command of one Commander Odysseus a Living Legend and hero of the colonies, in his own right. kind of like what Cain was going to be somewhat later on in his life etc.

KJ

Eric Paddon October 20th, 2006 03:42 PM

The Cerberus background and matter of Commander Odysseus was a nice invention they did that I chose to incorporate into my own fanfic. The idea being that Adama and Cain served together on the Cerberus, then Cain got promoted which took him to the Pegasus. Adama stayed on the Cerberus a little longer, where he first met Tigh, and then went to the Rycon to serve under Commander Kronus and finally to his own command on the Galactica.

KJ October 20th, 2006 07:27 PM

Does this fanfic show how Adama made Fleet Commander over Cain. Cos Cain is supposed to be under Adama in terms of rank in the Living Legend two parter. The Living Legend novelization says Cain was promoted after Adama not before, which explains why Adama could relive him of command and Cain was in the officers club thinking he went too far with his plan to force Adama into taking Gamoray.

Unless of course Adama's political route over the years with the Council Of Twelve in later years before and after the colonial holocaust gave him an advantage over Cain in the military. Or was Cain the Captain Kirk type in your eyes and was promoted higher later on to a "fleet Admiral" still but did something rebelious to get busted back to mere Commander, something he excels at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
Adama stayed on the Cerberus a little longer, where he first met Tigh, and then went to the Rycon to serve under Commander Kronus and finally to his own command on the Galactica.

Makes sense. But having Cain also serve elsewhere's or had at one time been a P.O.W. of the Cylons and their allies (before the Cylons turned on and killed them of course after they outlived their purpose) for a short period during the war before being freed and taking command of a ship of his own would also be a more logical change of pace for the two eventual commanders of the Galactica and Pegasus. Cain would logically follow Odysseus' style of command and learned off another military hero like Odysseus during his time onboard and had the time to grow closer to him than Adama ever did. Due to being around him much longer and serving on the Cerberus before and after Adama moved on.

Adama had Kronus to learn off afterwards didn't he? Seems you've got an opportunity to make Cain more fleshed out than Adama here?

Commander Odysseus himself is somebody i so wished was fleshed out in a Battlestar Galactica comic book series much more as well. Just like his mythological Greek namesake from the iliad. Perhaps he had a long and detailed history fighting in the war with the Cylons (Trojan war) and then spend many years trying to get home after the gods punished him for blinding Poseidon's son the Cyclops Polyphemus (Cylon?) Think Count Iblis and the beings from the ship of lights fighting over his fate in a battle of wills etc.

Certainly would be neat to make Odysseus and the Cerberus turn up in a fanfic of Battlestar Galactica's fan envisioned season 2 where the Galactica and Cerberus might meet up, and a older madder and perhaps more intimidating Odysseus could be a salvation or hinderance to the Galactica and her fleet? explaining Odysseus age might be a problem even for a race of humans who naturally age up to 200 yahrens or more. But he could always be "time displaced" due to tangling with higher being like Iblis or maybe John and the "Ships of light" chose him and his crew and plucked them for a particular higher purpose which had yet to be explained.

A Commander Odysseus who felt the wrath of Count Iblis first hand, or fighting a set of foes more dangerous than the Cylons might be a good tale to come up with fanfic wise.

Food for thought!

KJ

Eric Paddon October 20th, 2006 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason
Does this fanfic show how Adama made Fleet Commander over Cain.

Yes, I've addressed that in some adaptations and other fanfics. If we go by the novelization's point of a seniority system existing based on when you got your commission first, I extrapolated that while Adama and Cain entered the Academy together I created a backstory incident of Cain getting suspended briefly from the Academy for a semester because during a training exercise he impulsively took charge of the group and while he had been right to do so, some by-the-book types demanded he get disciplined for this. So this meant Cain graduated after Adama and that meant that if Adama and Cain were ever of equal rank, Adama would be regarded as senior (obviously if one attains a higher rank than one commissioned earlier, that would trump seniority on that point) and thus Adama would have the right to be Fleet Commander. Of course you also have to add the fact that as President of the Council of Twelve, Adama's civilian title may also have enabled him to trump Cain on this point too.

In another fanfic, which was my story about how Cain met his wife (the revised version of this is posted on the Anne Lockhart message board at http://www.annelockhart.com/site/forum/index.php under the title "Distant Memories"), I established Cain being on the Pegasus as a Lieutenant/Captain, and that the Pegasus commander at the time could have in effect filled the next level of being a mentor/idol for Cain that Odysseus would have been aboard the Cerberus in his earlier career. Naturally there can be room for Cain to have served aboard another ship in the interlude or to put him on another ship altogether before he gets his command, but I was first concerned with establishing that Adama stayed on the Cerberus longer than Cain so he could meet Tigh on that ship, since I didn't think it could be plausible that Tigh would have been part of the same group when Cain would have been there.

KJ October 21st, 2006 05:58 AM

What about a Commander Odysseus storyline with a young Adama and Cain first serving on the Cerberus and later on, evolve the story to show Odysseus struggles to get back home after the war in the form of Homer's Iliad Odyssey though.

Well thats more of an idea really, but at least i've given you a fair outline for a decent story that you guys in fandom to do right?

:)

KJ

Captain Hector October 28th, 2006 06:08 AM

Hi, I am new to the boards, but I just wanted to venture my 2 cents, if I may. I always thought this would be a great way to further devolp the characters, as they were, in relation to eachother. I always veiwed the Adama/Cain relationship akin to the real life comparasion of the Halsey/Sprurance relationship. While Halsey(Cain) was the flashier, more agresive take no prisoners commander, history proved Sprurance's(Adama) brilliance. That kind of understated brilliance, so that Adama is recognized as quite brilliant, in his own right. Kind of the unsung hero, if the expression may be used. I think the episode sortof hinted to that, when initially, Cain wants to take Gamorray, and Adama wisely states no, that the Cylons could strike at anytime, and is proven right. But maybe, thru background/history of prior battles mentioned perhaps in revised dialogue it could be further illustrated? Anyway, thanks for listening

Merlin February 11th, 2010 05:14 PM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
I would have changed the opening ... I would have had the Galactica come across the wreckage of a destroyed Base Ship ... there would be mass confusion ... on trying to figure out what destroyed the Base Ship .. they would all be on red alert .. Viper patrols sent out .. And then just have it pick up from where it originally started ... The Idea is and they find this out later .. that the base ship was just another victim of Commander Cain and the Pegasus !

Senmut March 22nd, 2010 12:35 AM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon (Post 272988)
I admittedly thought more in terms of Cain versus military figures who came through Trek, and will grant the richness of exploring further the likes of a Khan. It's when I think of the likes of a Commodore Wesley, Commodore Stocker, and even their best one, a Commodore Decker, I still find Cain the more interesting character.

As a story, I do think "Living Legend" is a richer character study in the complexities of competing miiltary philosophies than anything Trek offered us in its three years.

I think that Decker and Cain have alot in common. Decker loses it all, and goes off the deep end. Had Cain been stranded aboard a wrecked Pegasus, with a crew he tried to save having been wiped out by the Cylons, he might well have mentally disintegrated as much as Decker did. Like Decker, he cannot accept having been defeated by his enemy, and cares not a bit that his revenge could cost more ships and lives.

Jubal March 8th, 2013 08:36 PM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Loving the whole Cain and Decker comparisons. Might have to get back to that in a moment. :)

Here lately I have been ordering my colonial warrior outfit, so naturally a HUGE fan of the Pegasus. If I were in that situation and eventually given the option to help get civiliians to safety or fight, I think I would have liked to fight it out.

But I had a fun thought of a alternate switch to this episode:

In the beginning of the episode, what if Athena had managed in those opening salvos when the vipers from the Galactica and Pegasus run across each other that Apollo is shot down.

They exchange licks, and the dander of both the Galactica and Pegasus turns out to be a civil war. Adama is unhinged at the loss of his son, and Cain refuses to admit wrong or stand down. And so the two go to war, right there in the middle of space. Last of their race, two great battlestars duking it out.

In the end, man, not the Cylons, is the end what is left of their race.

Athene April 26th, 2013 08:24 AM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubal (Post 311376)
Loving the whole Cain and Decker comparisons. Might have to get back to that in a moment. :)

Here lately I have been ordering my colonial warrior outfit, so naturally a HUGE fan of the Pegasus. If I were in that situation and eventually given the option to help get civiliians to safety or fight, I think I would have liked to fight it out.

But I had a fun thought of a alternate switch to this episode:

In the beginning of the episode, what if Athena had managed in those opening salvos when the vipers from the Galactica and Pegasus run across each other that Apollo is shot down.

They exchange licks, and the dander of both the Galactica and Pegasus turns out to be a civil war. Adama is unhinged at the loss of his son, and Cain refuses to admit wrong or stand down. And so the two go to war, right there in the middle of space. Last of their race, two great battlestars duking it out.

In the end, man, not the Cylons, is the end what is left of their race.

I like your alternate take on the episode.

I would have really liked Cain added to cast and the Battlestar Pegasus added too.

Ah...if only...for a second season of BSG. :salute:

Senmut May 12th, 2013 02:31 PM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Naaaah. Let's not go there. Both characters are too rich and meaningful for so ignominious an end.

Athene May 16th, 2013 12:16 PM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Senmut (Post 311743)
Naaaah. Let's not go there. Both characters are too rich and meaningful for so ignominious an end.

LOL nicely said! :salute:

*but...I still wanted to have seen a second season* ;)

Senmut October 22nd, 2013 08:58 PM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
As would I.
Check out the Virtual Season?

martok2112 January 10th, 2014 07:31 AM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Even real-life heroes can suffer ignominious fates. Because in the end, they're only humans...only men and women.

Where does it say that every hero, if they must meet their fate, must do so in a blaze of glory?

Personally, I think it takes guts to be able to have a so-called "hero" go out in a fizzle, rather than a bang.

Advantages of being an afan. :)

Senmut January 10th, 2014 05:11 PM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Some of that goes back to ancient Sumerian epics. The hero HAS to have some kind of horrible fate. makes their memory more heroic I guess.

martok2112 January 10th, 2014 05:41 PM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
I can agree there. The audience of such epics would likely scream bloody murder if their hero didn't meet some incredible fate that roused them splendiferously.

And I can certainly understand that such folk saw the stories as an escape from their own humdrum lives, living vicariously through fictional epic heroes. Hence the term "escapism".

But then again, escapism in modern days has taken to a new low.... trailer trash who live vicariously through so-called "reality tv shows" and "Oprah".

I have no problem with the way a lot of shows are written today. Where the heroes are heroes only when the situation warrants...and then in the rest of their lives, they are just ordinary people...vulnerable, flawed, not always the white-hat....sometimes becoming the anti-hero....and perhaps even sometimes becoming the bad guy. As humans being, folk are not always solidly white-hat or black-hat. I find the "shades of grey" stories far more interesting. And I find it ballsy when the show's perceived hero meets an untimely, and less than noteworthy death. One of the reasons I liked how Wash died in Serenity.

Titon January 11th, 2014 08:02 AM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Problem is we look for "hero's" in the wrong places. There is no such hero that exist's in tv land. That being said i find escapism to be something that I can relate to instead of watching flawed characters that serve no purpose but to remind us just how f'd up our world truly is. Until we find it in ourselves to look for hero's from within then we truly our doomed to begin with.

martok2112 January 11th, 2014 09:29 PM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Ahhh....but, Grasshoppa, when you can walk on-a rice papah without leave-a footprint, then you are ready!

(Gooonnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

:D

Dawg January 12th, 2014 08:25 AM

Re: 08: Living Legend
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Titon (Post 312942)
Problem is we look for "hero's" in the wrong places. There is no such hero that exist's in tv land. That being said i find escapism to be something that I can relate to instead of watching flawed characters that serve no purpose but to remind us just how f'd up our world truly is. Until we find it in ourselves to look for hero's from within then we truly our doomed to begin with.

I like this thought.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:


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