Anime debate
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Also, I mentioned over at Kingfish's board that the realism of TOS could be perfectly recaptured by anime. This was promptly twisted into "All TOS fans care about are special effect." By "realism" I was referring to the limitations placed upon the human body. This varies wildly from series to series, even within live action. The limitations on Luke Skywalker as a Jedi are obviously lower than Starbuck's, which are lower than a character on Star Trek. Most Americans are just used to cartoons where all the characters have virtually no limitations on their bodies. In Japan however, this is quite different. On a show like Dragon Ball Z the limitations are almost non-existant, however before considering that the norm you should watch a little show called Blue Gender. Within this show the human body is actually more limited and fragile than it is in TOS. In one instance a van got flipped vertically. A woman fell to the back of the van, bumped her head, blood spewed from her mouth, and she died. It would be a simple matter to figure out the limitations on the characters of TOS, and perfectly simulate the feel of the flesh-and-blood people, only more artistically. So, how is saying "anime can't do TOS" any different from saying "a black guy can't sing country music, because it was started by whites" (fun fact: Country music was actually invented by black slaves :D ). If you can perfectly simulate the feel of it, why not go for it. Quote:
:Nsalute: |
If the anime was similar to Final Fantasy or Appleseed, maybe, otherwise I don't think an anime version would fly well...
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The actors in anime - or any other animation format - are voice actors. They are not able to use body language or facial expressions to convey emotion or whatever.
Hand-drawn or computer generated, they are still cartoons with voiceover dialogue - regardless of how sophisticated it might be. And hand-drawn will be far more cartoonish than sophisticated CGI. Once we get human-looking anime - and I mean barely distinguishable from actual humans - then we can talk about anime Galactica. I am Dawg :warrior: |
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This makes me laugh. <invective edited> Suggesting that "country music" was "Invented" by decendants of Africa rather than the Scotch/Irish is absurd. Get your facts straight. |
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Tron still looked like a cartoon, even with real live actors.
The amount of time it takes with current tech to create a few seconds of "realistic" footage without the human props we call actors is prohibitive. |
CGI can accomplish more than you guys could ever imagine. Right now with Zoic out of the picture with the NuBG you can see a significant drop in overall quality but cgi takes a bad wrap from people because of just that. You get what you pay for and in the end it takes money to make things look good.
Everyone knows that character development lacks compared to a real actor but what more do you guys want. Doing a TOS Galactica in animation would be huge. You could see a world develop in front of you that all of us want to see. In my eyes Galactica is the perfect venue for animation. Look no further than what Warthog did with the Galactica game. |
I thought Zoic was still doing FX for TNS? Last I heard they were as noted in RDM's last Blog:
"Are you still working with Zoic for design work?" RDM: Absofrakkinglutely. I haven't noticed a drop in quality at all, particularly in eps 10, 12 & 13.... |
Sorry, still prefer people.
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Just to let you in on something... Titon works for Zoic - I'm sure if he says they are no longer doing the VFX, he would know better than Ron Moore does. Best, Bryan |
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Also, they can still be "working with" Zoic, but have bugetarily forced Zoic to subcontract or work in only a supervisory role to a cheaper Canadian vendor. Zoic is still involved, but it's not really Zoic's work entirely. I'm with Titon on animation not being a bad way to go for a continuation. It's growing in popularity. Movies like Robots are merging comedy with a bit of Sci-fi/fantasy. BG could be a bridge that blows open all sorts of possibilities for mainstream Sci-Fi. Use the benefit of seeing how the Japanese have turned it into an adult medium, with character development and use the mind blowing level that CG effects can bring to an action sequence. I would want it to be like appleseed and not hand-drawn. Very little is hand-drawn these days anyway. |
I had heard mention that one of the effects shots from the mini was cut and used in an episode of the series.
If you look at the DVD extras, it makes sense to conclude that some of the effects for ep 10 were cut from that scene originally done for the mini. Maybe. "Atmosphere Visual Effects" is the Vancouver effects company that did the effects in that ep, as well as 9, 12, and 13. Lee Stringer comments at www.starshipbuilder.com: Quote:
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Myself, I'm a big anime fan, and have really gotten into in it the last year or so due to both Adult Swim and G$TTV airing really good anime series: Wolf's Rain, Witch Hunter Robin, Read or Die, Last Exile, InuYasha, and Ghost in the Shell just to name a few. Appleseed is another example of feature length approaches to this same genre of stortytelling with brutal reality and not just large eyed characters acting like idiots.
The anime that we see here in the US is just the tip of the iceberg, and most of it is not the top quality series which air in Japan. Japan has an enormous sub-culture industry of Anime, animated shows in which they have everything from children's programming, adult action shows, to very adult shows (pornography); and Manga, printed series like comics but more violent/adult subject matter. Anime characters and storylines can be dark and complex, just like movies. In the better series, characters sometimes die tragic and violent deaths, there are consequences from their decisions which come back to haunt characters, they have regrets, problems, issues, and series typically have endings, not continuing on forever (with the exception of InuYasha) pulling dead rabbits out of hats. I'd rather watch decent anime than lots of bad TV series, reality shows, cheaply rushed made for TV movies, which seem to rule the day on the big three networks. I think anime would be good to fill in the stories that TNS and even TOS won't have time or money to tell, similar to the Clone Wars series for Star Wars, or the AniMatrix for the Matrix series. It should be noted that having BSG anime would draw new fans to either series. I don't think it could ever be mainstream enough to become the core storytelling device, and that's really not in it's best interest. It should just be a stand alone series, to tell additional stories, adding to the mystique of the entire world that is BSG. Rigel |
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Frag - In this same vein, where does your avatar come from? I was thinking it came from an animated version or another short of TOS but based on the dialogue here (and elsewhere), that doesn't seem to be the case.
I've been meaning to ask you that and this thread is relevant enough to finally serve my curiosity...:D Rigel :Nsalute: |
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After slavery ended, many of them headed into the mountains. The hillbillies hadn't kept slaves anyway, and so they were especially rascist, and they considered music to be a matter of taste rather than race. They quickly found that they had quite a taste for this new "black" music, and picked it up. Then, decades later, some record producers came to record moutain music. They didn't even look at the blacks, who they assumed would play something different than the whites (and I guess they assumed it would be crappy). So they recorded white hillbillies playing music they learned from blacks. I learned this on the CMT documentary Waiting in the Wings, so argue with them if you disagree. |
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BTW, go here for some Blue Gender trailers. This is the level of realism I'm talking about:
http://bluegender.com/ Also, anime provides another advantage that live action doesn't give. In the case of live action if you want to have a "clean" and "dirty" version, you have to plan for it. For instance, you can't have nudity in a scene that's overly important to the plot if you want to edit it down for kids. However, back when Cartoon Network was showing the 08th MS Team it had a problem. There was a scene in which the main character saw a girl swimming nude, and she shot at him. Other plot points wouldn't make sense without this scene. The solution: Just draw a bikini on her (have it be done in a tint that drastically conflicts with everything around it, so all the adult viewers know what happened). This could be worked for a TOS series. I'm not proposing that there should be nudity in the TOS continuation, but if you want to call it adult, a bit of blood here and there helps. Then if you want to air it on daytime Cartoon Network, you can just edit it out. It's alot harder to digitally paint out blood. |
Blue Gender
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Tom and I had a conversation about Blue Gender last year when I discovered the series thru Netflix.com. You might want to check the Anime discussion forum of Fleets: http://battlestargalactica-fleets.co...ead.php?t=7775 Blue Gender is indeed one of the best examples of modern animation technique - but it's definitely not for kids... Best, Bryan |
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He might be telling people that and yes Zoic might be there as consultants but i'll tell you with out a doubt right now that Zoic is not the FX company in charge. Has not been for months. ;) Oh and one more thing, you think Ron Moore is writing the checks? Professionally speaking if it *was* up to him Zoic would be still doing the FX. Zoic costs to much. |
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Uncle Peter's got to get him a Skybase for Christmas. If Captain Scarlet comes over to the States, watch it, it's great family entertainment for kids and adults alike and a pretty faithful remake to boot! Peter |
Didn't we have a discussion on this issue before? http://battlestargalactica-fleets.co...ight=anime+BSG
:D |
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Get used to it, you are going to be called on it when your facts are wrong. Banjo did indeed come from the African slaves. The notion that the "fiddle" came from Africa rather than the European violin is plain historical revisionism. As a hypothesis, it doesn't pass the laugh test. Similar instrument, and of course, changes in styles from the slaves, certainly that happened. But, saying the slaves had an influence on country music is very different than saying it is derived from the slaves. The existance of traditional Scottish and Irish tunes being in the history of Appalachian music, with no examples of "African" themes is the basis for the claim that Scotch/Irish influences are the backbone of "country" music. We can actually go to Ireland and Scotland and find similar music. You cannot do the same with Africa. You shouldn't believe everything you see on television. |
Darth's right. You can plausibly trace the roots of American gospel, soul, funk, jazz and hip hop back to slavery and even back to Africa itself, but country is a European descendant.
Sorry for the OT |
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I built that little sucker. ;) |
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I played the game from start to finish. The CGI Vipers, Raiders and space battles were excellent. This is a wise use of CGI. However human actors are needed to covey the story. Hatch had live actors in Second Coming. The only CGI actor was Lorne Greene in a hologram conveying Adama's last wishes. Tom DeSanto had live actors Dirk and Herb and possibly a few other old school BG actors reprising their roles. |
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