Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason (Post 255705)

Which is why i've loved this series. Its mythology and setting made it unique and fasinating with the names, places and most of all. A very powerful storyline tale told, about a group of humans actually looking for Earth, rather than from Earth originally cos they lost their own homeworlds and find out where their lost brothers from an almost long forgotten 13th tribe went. Its a premise that always rivaled Star Trek and Star Wars in terms of a grand sci-fi universe with heroes and villains within it.

Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason (Post 274111)

Agreed! looking back the series pilot let alone the series kinda glossed over TONS of set up material and characterization of the settings, characters, and universe Battlestar Galactica is set in. Truth be told even the 3 hour pilot didn't bring enough justice to the grand and epic scale both Richard Colla/Alan J Levi and Glen Larson originally brought to the pilot episode.

Taking one of the original script drafts after the Cylons became a race of "super-machines" rather than non-humaniod 'Alien Reptillians', and drawing on other elements the novels and abandoned early scripts touched upon we could address an alternate universe where had the show developed properly and slowly had a storyarc with enough action and SFX matching the onscreen drama and the existing pilot was more similar to the original mini-series intentions, Battlestar might have had a stronger basis to allow the stories to continue and make the characters interact with one another tus generating even bigger potential storyarcs that might've kept the series going beyond the existing 24 episodes.

Although plenty of elements effect the creation and filming of a TV series, i imagine Galactica might have done well if several things were indeed more fleshed out from the writing angle thus eliminating the obvious later flaws in the characters and science of the plot situations (faster-than-light-travel, knowing what a Galaxy is Vs 'Starsystem' etc), the budgets, casting of guest stars etc. i reckon with several changes to the existing storyline of the pilot, that the later episodes would as Eric's pointed out benefited from better writing.

Things that could have happened in order to produce a better BSG series continuity, character, SFX and storyarc wise

1) Pilot episode split into an actual mini-series. Two 3 hour TV movies in 1978 or 3 individual 2 hour movies. First part covers the introduction to the series settings last of the battlestars, main characters, the holocaust. While the second or third parts; would naturally cover, the Escape/Exodus flight to Carillion near escape and destruction of Cylons/Ovions at Carillion.

2) Athena would be a much stronger character overall. And would be the hands on 'Tomboy' Warrior Larson originally wrote for the series. Strong yet caring of her father Adama. She and Apollo would clash often and have trouble getting along but respect one another greatly regardless of their duties to the ship and fleet.

3) Zac wouldn't be killed off until early in the series after Serina died or something. Finding out who he is and what was like originally before he died, would've made more sense. Then Ric Springfield could've reappeared to Apollo time and time again. As realistically, he was really gulity and felt haunted by his younger brother's death which made Apollo far more dedicated to duty to distract himself from really grieving! Zac loss might have played off better if he died later rather than minutes into the pilot at the beginning of the series. Only to keep on reappearing "Lost style" to characters like Apollo and Adama through dreams and illusions etc. What if in 'War Of The Gods' later on Count Iblis tormented Apollo by taking on Zac's features? Thus is te real reason Captain Apollo starts shooting Iblis?

Zac and Serina might've both been used in this way had the writers thought of ways to utilise them better in order to flesh'em out moreso.

4) Cylons. Fleshing out their motives and their machine race from the beginning a little more clearly but keeping most of the later season 1 revelations as they are. Would've worked far better. But the series certainly could've used some of the novels more fleshed out backstory and included elements such as the Cylons Centurions being decorated in "spoils" and trophys from captured worlds and using alien technology from conquered worlds, the whole '2 brained' and '3 brained' Cylons concepts, being far more explained and extrapolated on.

Baltar being trained and exercised out by Lucifer via the use of holograms in the 'Tombs Of Kobol' novel to prepare him after he is spared by Imperious Leader (but really cos Lucifer wanted to experiment with Baltar for his own curiousity) would've been an interesting take on Baltar being spared and seeing the traitor at work with the Cylons before he gained control of a basestar might have shown a different side to Colicos portrayal of Baltar from invulnerable human to power mad madman with machine as his allies. Seeing his cahracter turn into that mad slowly would have been better. Also seeing Karibdis's involvement in the sabotage of the colonial defences, might've been more interesting to see and witness firsthand, knowing Baltar had a secretive ally in the fleet later on (who probably wouldn't try to kill him) and was just as dangerous to the poeple's of the fleet being a wolf in sheep's clothing as Baltar was, as an attacking force trying to destroy the fleet with the Cylons.

5) Proper reasons for Baltar's betrayal. Control of your own colony doesn't mean he wanted to see the rest destroyed! Nor would he be so foolishly guliable to trust the Cylons completely without a backup plan of his own just in case.

6) A vast universe? Humans with interstellar travel wouldn't all be at home the same time the Cylons made their final all-out attack. Nor would the military be down to just 5 giant warships, and place them all in one location just to be destroyed, considering not everyone (like Adama) trusted the Cylons or their attempts at peace! An hour in both pilot episodes (see number 1#) or so might have had a subplot about telling their peoples outside of the 12 colonies to scatter and hide, while others nearby attempt to reach the Galactica and her fleet of newly assembled ragtag ships after the holocaust.

7) The 12 Colonies Of Man. Both before and after their destruction would need a closer view of how these people existed before they lost their homes in a sneak attack. How they relate to our ancient forefathers in realtion to the motifs, references to earth culture etc. Their actual starsystem and its enviroment, their neighbouring starsystems (Borallus, Proteus, Arcta, Starlost?). As well as where the Cylon Homeworld is and how well defended it is etc?

8) The Battlestar Commanders? Besides Adama and possibly Baltar of the Pacifica? Who commanded the other ships? Wouldn't it have been great, if one of the commanders was actually onboard the Galactica and was unable to return to his own Battlestar ship only to see it destroyed from the Galactica. And spent the series at odds with both Adama and Tigh about styles of Command etc and wanted to gain command of a ship of his own again? Or it was left totally mysterious if every Battlestar was indeed actually destroyed? Cos in a chaotic battle don't ships disappear? Something that might've put a big question mark after Living Legend, if yet another Battlestar turned up, but was also at Cimtar (unlike the Pegasus) and has been trying to relocate the Galactica and her fleet. And what if her commander outranks Adama and doesn't want to go searching the universe for Earth? (dramatic possibilites)

9) More to the Carillion trap by the Ovions/Cylons. Also what if the Galactica picked up more alien passingers like the 'Tucan singers', 'Borays' etc?

10) Adama. Making Adama bit more like his Berkley novel counterpart, might've been far more interesting. Seeing as he was more of a "darker figure" who was more complexed in places than how Lorne Greene played him. Being a bit strict *tyrant* to maintain command, or being noted for possessing strange powers?, to not being heard when *sneaking up* on someone. Could made Adama more of a character with a deep but controversial history.

Things to consider far as a new twist on the series itself eh?

KJ

Originally Posted by Punisher454 (Post 283377)

I just joined this board, but have been a fan of the show since before it aired.
After the disappointment and kick in groin that RDM's GINO was I sure am ready for a proper remake.
I read a few suggestions here about making SOASW into a 6 hour mini. I think a six hour mini would be great, but end it with the fleet leaving the colonies, make Carilon a whole separate arc.
I think that about 80-90% of the sets and props had a design that would look good if being made today. The Vipers and Raiders would only need minor tweaks to look convincing, and the battlestar model design was perfect the first time.
I think showing some things from the Cylon side would be very interesting and would help explain the story to the audience better. "Tora-Tora-Tora" spent a lot of time showing the Japanese side of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Even the cheezy "Starship Troopers"movie spent some time setting up the audience for the initial bug attack. SOSAW was just too rushed and the characters do seem one dimensional to people now days who have never seen it, and watch it for the first time.
Another thing is that the proud traditions of the colonial military need to be conveyed to the new viewer. To be a Warrior is an honor and Warriors are very respected in colonial society. Unfortunately it takes a few episodes of galactica to come to really understand that.
IF done properly a remake could be a big success, but if the wrong people get a hold of it, it could turned into something as bad as "Wing Commander"

Originally Posted by Punisher454 (Post 283661)

No I dont think the characters actually are one dimensional, I''m just saying that in the span of SOASW they are not developed enough for an audience of 2009.
I like stories where the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad. I do believe that shades of grey are good, but those shades of grey should be very slight and not right in the middle like RDM does.
We all here understand the depth of TOS characters, but a new viewer of the current day watching TOS for the first time does not get a chance to really understand them very well. At least thats what I've gathered while attempting to introduce people to the series who have never seen it.

I hate to compare anything good to "Starship Troopers" but there are a couple of things they did right in that movie. The audience was given just the right amount of character history before the action really started. The rest may have been crap, but that was done really well, not too much and not too little, just right. Speaking of which, I suggest Michael Ironside for a role.

I agree that the special effects stand the test of time, mostly. But the modern audience will be expecting more technical accuracy of course.
One thing that must not be forgotten is that the galactica is a big warship made of metal, and the sets need to reflect that, and not have the soft plastic look of so many other productions. The riveted bulkheads beams and struts must be maintained.
Also the size and general shape of the colonial warrior sidearm should be I spreserved, its Iconic.

Originally Posted by Kester Pelagius (Post 283781)

Many yahrens ago I posted a idea for what I'd like to see done with a remake/reboot/redo/whatever. It went something like this:

You will have three parts, a minimum of an hour devoted to development of each segment/act.

ACT I: Background. Here we would see the colonies. Meet characters, be filled in on the 12 worlds, their history, &tc.

ACT II: The Armistice/Cylon invasion. Act I would lead organically into Act II, where we'd see FLEET BATTLES. The Colonies don't just have 5 Battlestars. They have cruisers, fighters, et al. The Cylons would probably take a beating. Let's take a page from American history and have CADETS fly up to meet the invaders, or something.

ACT III: Exodus/Carillon. Bigger, better, bolder. Make Carillon the den of hedonistic depravity it should be. And, oh yeah, NO PLANETS BLOWING UP. (We don't want Lucas filing another lawsuit.)

ACT IV. Technically this would be the outro. Keep it short and sweet and allow it to set the stage for future movies but allow there also to be a sense of closure.

Or something like that.

Originally Posted by Punisher454 (Post 283801)

For sure! Carilon was supposed to represent the Israelite's falling into sin and idol worship while Moses was on the mountain. They had just been delivered from the Egyptians and behaved Very badly. Wandering in the wilderness was their punishement.

Originally Posted by Kester Pelagius (Post 283893)

And don't skimp on the aliens.

The novel mentions them in passing. Doesn't really even describe them! Starbuck and Boomer arrive at the hedonistic resort and, oh, look, every alien known to man.

:sigh:

I know some can't help but draw parallels to the cantina scene in Star Wars the casino but, I hate to bruise Star Wars fanbois egos, but the space bar full of aliens is a classic cliché of the genre. Even Babylon 5 did it, and with modern FX and prosthetics it looked great. Can you imagine what could be done with Carillion now?

I'd hire strippers as extras.

What?

:)

Originally Posted by HDE (Post 306613)

... Let's face it: more people are familiar with the new version and the public might not be so trilled about returning to the past. ...

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon (Post 158080)

As the story that launched the series, Saga works wonderfully. To me though, there were just two problems within the episode overall as it first aired.

#1-The conduct of other Battlestar commanders. Of course we need to be given the premise of the Galactica as the last surviving battlestar, so everyone else gets wiped out in the opening battle, but realistically wouldn't we have expected to see some of the other commanders, or at least one other put up more of a fight?

#2-Why does Serina seek Apollo out? Of course in the footage that was originally shot this had an explanation. Serina was dying and looked to Apollo as a potential father-figure for Boxey since he'd have no one soon.


Ultimately, as the rest of the series aired, it was possible to go back to Saga and realize that some critical elements of foreshadowing could be called for as well so that future episode storylines wouldn't quite come out of left field.


#1-How did Baltar get off the Atlantia? And how was the Colonial defense network for the 12 worlds sabotaged so that the attack on the planets was sudden? We got our explanation to both points in "Murder On The Rising Star" with the Charybdis character. He's identified as Baltar's pilot and also the one who sabotaged the computers. So therefore, in redoing Saga, foreshadowing of MOTRS can be handled effectively by introducing Charybdis as a character, and Ortega as well to set up the circumstances of just how they met and how Ortega knew who Charybdis was (this point was never explained at all in MOTRS. We learned that Ortega knew who Charybdis was, but not how he learned his true identity).

#2-Starbuck and Aurora. I think of all the "where did that come from?" plot twists in the series, the revelation of Starbuck having a serious girlfriend other than Athena at the time of the Destruction was the hardest to swallow. In "Take The Celestra" Starbuck confounds the matter further by talking about "flying over her house the night the Cylons attacked and seeing it took a direct hit." Where did he find time in Saga to do that? In hindsight though, maybe the realization that someone he had been close to explained his awkward attempt to reach out to Athena in the locker room scene. So when I wrote my adaptation, I added some dialogue to the locker room scene that covered the whole Starbuck-Aurora-Athena angle that went this way. I segue way from actual dialogue in the episode to this new addition.

"Athena," he began awkwardly and then started to pace up and down the room, never keeping his attention on her, "This is a time for....sticking together. Maybe it's time we finally talked.....about things."
"Us?" she sighed, "Is that what you mean?"
Starbuck bit his lip and lowered his head. His back remained to her.
"Well," he said as though he were summoning all the strength he was capable of, "After three yahrens, it is kind of overdue isn't it? I mean.....God knows Athena, I've been putting it off for a long time because of my.....well because of my nature. You know that."
"Aurora's dead, isn't she?" Athena decided to go ahead with her instinct, "That's what you were checking out when you and Boomer went down to Caprica for the last time?"
Starbuck slowly exhaled, "All right I admit it, I did check. Can you blame me for that?"
"No," Athena shook her head, "No I can't blame you for that. I know she meant a lot to you before you and I started going together, and because you never completely cut your ties to her was why we've....put off other matters for a long time."

This is the kind of continuity rectifying touch I have in mind when I talk about the idea of remaking the episodes at a new level without disrupting the overall familiarity.

#3-We learn about Commander Cain and his disappearance two yahrens before with the entire Fifth Fleet in "Living Legend." This means that if we go back to Saga, foreshadowing of LL is called for in a BIG way. Perhaps it was the loss of Cain that played an important role relevant to the desire for peace talks with the Cylons? And wouldn't we need to adjust Cassiopeia a bit to foreshadow her past relationship with Cain?

Next time, I'll go into more detail about what elements of the story I changed/altered in significant ways. In the meantime, as I said in the intro post, feel free to not just comment on these aspects and my ideas, but share your own on what you would change to improve the episode and address these matters! There's a lot of untapped creativity waiting to be shared that goes beyond mere episiode revie commentary.