Viper Comparison Chart

[Darrell Lawrence]

The Viper Comparison Chart, for those that don't realize the differences in the Vipers.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/darrell/viper_comparison_t.jpg (http://www.colonialfleets.com/darrell/viper_comparison.jpg)

Click on the image for the larger version.

Enjoy ;)

[oldwardaggit]

All those vipers are cool but then again, they are all based on the original so that's why and Galactica still holds the record in cool looking fighters as far as I'm concerned. :)

OWD

[gmd3d]

It great seeing them together like this. I really love the desanto concept that was never used It a cool looking fighter. I wish I had it for truespace :cry:

[XANATOS]

NO CRIMSON VIPER :cry:

0h well seeing as i have no artistic talent
i have better appriciate the efforts of others
and keep my big mouth shut :D

PS.
beautiful work :salute:



XANATOS

[Darrell Lawrence]

The Viper Comparison Chart now has the game Vipers.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/darrell/viper_comparison1_t.jpg (http://www.colonialfleets.com/darrell/viper_comparison1.jpg)

Click on the image for the larger version.

Enjoy ;)

[PredatorPt]

Really nice, and handy when writing fanfiction! This is now my new wallpaper :)

It's only missing the Crimson Viper and The Second Coming Vipers ;)

Thanks for the nice work, Warrior!

[Darrell Lawrence]

I have a low rez copy of the Crimson Viper by tigreclaws. But the quality of that model would not stand well against the quality of the models in that image.

[Ferox]

Very cool image. What kind of fighter is the lower right one? Is it a MK 0 or what?
Are there any reference about "the missing" Vipers?

[Darrell Lawrence]

It says what they are in the text by each one.

[Ferox]

Yeah, I know, but it has no MK next to it. So is it a predecessor of the Mk I, or another version? If so what version, scout, bomber, interceptor... :?:

[LadyImmortal]

Very cool - I just wish I coulda read the writing!!! :)

[TSA]

to me, there's nothing like the "original" viper...but, it's cool to see them all together to compare.

[Darrell Lawrence]

Yeah, I know, but it has no MK next to it. So is it a predecessor of the Mk I, or another version? If so what version, scout, bomber, interceptor... :?:
If you mean the game's Scorpion Class, I *think* it's the games equavelant of the Mk VII.

[BlueSquad2001]

These are very cool renderings. Can't wait to get started on the Cobra resin kit. :salute:

[DarkknightRT]

The concept fighter is the best looking they should have gone with that design. A great blending of organic and mech lines

[martok2112]

I believe the Cobra class fighter is one of Warrior's own design. :) And it rocks. Nice lines. I like it better than the DeSanto Mk IV version.
Martok2112

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I do too. Its pretty kick ass and it animates really, really well.

Sandy

[spcglider]

Yup... still in love with the original. There's something sturdy about that design. Something that imparts a confidence about the machine. It looks powerful. Not just agressive, but seemingly able to really deliver a punch. My opinion is that the original is still the best design with the overall best balance of "speed" and funtionality.

Some of the other designs, most notably the "passed on" DeSanto MKVII and the New Series MKII look like they've been passed through some magical "anime" filter.

But the Viper is a inherently simple dart design. Part of the beauty is the simplicity. Aside from plop stuff on top of the existing lines or streamline the parts, there's not too much you can do to really freshen it up.

That's not taking away from anything we see here... obviously alot of folks put in alot of thought and work to create these designs. Good stuff overall.

-Gordon

[Exarch]

Awesome. If the Cobra is Warrior's design, great job on it. Fits in really well, and looks nice as an older brother of the Viper.

I have to agree with Glider, too, the old Vipers did always fit my tastes more than the new Viper VII, because of the simplistic design. Makes more sense as a fighting craft. I mean... it's not like your ship has to be streamlined for it to fly in space, right?

[Darrell Lawrence]

Awesome. If the Cobra is Warrior's design, great job on it. Fits in really well, and looks nice as an older brother of the Viper.
Thanks, although I had in mind that the Cobra was of the same time as the OS Viper. It just ran on different ships than Battlestars.

[Raymar3d]

I have a scarlett viper built by James Betteridge, and another viper built by Jim Brown.

I'll see if I can dig them up and render at that same angle, and you can add them to the chart.

They were used in "Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming."

Way cool!

Ken ;)

[Darrell Lawrence]

Thanks, Ken. That'd be way cool :)

[dilbertman]

Here's a preview of one of the ships ken is talking about.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33521&postcount=39

And an other one not seen for sometime.

http://battlestar.freeservers.com/mygallery3.html

Jim :salute:

[stephanb2006]

Sweet these will be a big help

[dilbertman]

Hey look what's on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCI-FI-BATTLESTAR-GALACTICA-T-SHIRT-VINTAGE-VIPER-FLEET_W0QQitemZ8407782925QQcategoryZ28022QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Jim :wtf:

[Darrell Lawrence]

I e-mailed ebay about it (stolen property) and e-mailed that jackass asking him who the hell said he could sell my art.

[Darrell Lawrence]

...and thanks for the heads up, Jim :)

[dilbertman]

Your welcome. Just watching your back.

Jim :salute:

[martok2112]

I agree 110%.. someone stole Darrell's art....and that is felgercarb of the highest order.

Martok2112 (quite pissed off for Darrell)

[evil_genius_180]

It's good to see all of the Vipers together. I never noticed exactly how different they were until now.

[Wºz™]

Cool

[VenomHUN]

hmm i might miss the point, but is there an actual Scarlet int he series???

[Darrell Lawrence]

No.

[Zaarin]

Thank you for this chart and I hope you don't mind that I posted it one other forum, gave the credit to you.


EDIT: Heh, you don't have to worry about me selling anything, Warrior. I'm not much of salesman. :Nsmilie:

[Darrell Lawrence]

I don't mind if it's posted elsewhere, just as long as it's not SOLD, ie used to make money, in any form :)

[Smallworld]

Great work, thanks for sharing.

[dilbertman]

I have a scarlett viper built by James Betteridge, and another viper built by Jim Brown.

I'll see if I can dig them up and render at that same angle, and you can add them to the chart.

They were used in "Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming."

Way cool!

Ken ;)
Ken

Any updates on this?

Jim :/:

[innovari]

I find on my hard disk this viper mesh. I dont remember when and where I find it, but I've download it somewere years ago.
It is an .OBJ file complete with all the textures. It have also the internal display and the joystick. The models seems to be a low/med resolution model, perhaps for some kind of game (a flight/combat simulator? A "total conversion" MOD?).
Have you ever seen this mesh?
It is strange because it have the front of the engines rounded.
Here is a quick render in Bryce. If you want I can do a render at the same angle of the other Vipers on your Comparison Chart with a white background.
Just tell me :)

http://www.innovari.it/mviper.jpg

[Darrell Lawrence]

...hmmm I don't recognize that model.

Not only are the engine fronts wrong, but so is the cockpit....

[innovari]

We could say that this Viper could be a pre-mass production prototype (fan design).
Do you agree?

[Smallworld]

Pre-production model sounds good.

[spcglider]

...hmmm I don't recognize that model.

Not only are the engine fronts wrong, but so is the cockpit....


Warrior, As compared to what? I think you are assuming intent that doesn't exist.

It could be the original mesh-er was not trying to absolutely replicate the Classic Viper. At least that's not how it appears. There are far too many concious deviations from the original design (that is easily researched, referenced and replicated).

Either they were purposely doing something different, or they were an only barely competent CGI modeler. The latter doesn't seem to be the case as most everything else is well done. Not superb, but well done.

We are rapidly approaching a time when the Colonial Viper will wrest the title of "Most Riffed-On Design" cleanly away from the previous record holder: Iron Man's Armor.

-Gordon

[Darrell Lawrence]

Compared to what? The Viper of course :)

There is nothing there suggesting what the modeler intended.

My point about certain things being incorrect on the model are things I'd recognize about that model *if* I knew who did it.

[spcglider]

Compared to what? The Viper of course :)

There is nothing there suggesting what the modeler intended.

My point about certain things being incorrect on the model are things I'd recognize about that model *if* I knew who did it.

:salute: Respectfully, you are suggesting that the modeler intended to create "The Viper".

If they did, then individual elements of this model could be considered "wrong". :/:

Otherwise, if they weren't trying to replicate the Classic Viper, there couldn't be anything incorrect about it because the creator of the model would be the sole arbiter of "wrong" and "right" in the design.

Until the artist responsible comes forth and claims the work and explains the design choices and intent, I don't think we can technically call any part of it "wrong".

So far, all we know is that it is "different". :...:

Sorry if I'm harping on language... no intent to offend. :halo:

-Gordon

[spcglider]

And by different I mean that, aside from your mentions, the engine inset detail, the main fuselage shape, the panel lines, the in-between engine details, the laser cannons, and the side fuselage inset details are all different than the classic Viper.

So either the artist was horribly under-researched or he/she was making a concious decision to make it unlike the original.

-G :salute:

[Darrell Lawrence]

I'm gonna kick you, because you're trying to nitpic the wrong things ;)

I said my POINT was there are recognizable things on that mesh to recall who made it *if* I knew in the first place.

A prime example would be my CObra. It has a specific look to it, so anyone who knows I made it would reconize it immediatly.

I am saying the same thing about that mesh above- It has a particular look to it for it to be recognizable to anyone who knew who the owner was in the first place.

So without further ado....

*kick*

[spcglider]

I'm gonna kick you, because you're trying to nitpic the wrong things ;)

I said my POINT was there are recognizable things on that mesh to recall who made it *if* I knew in the first place.

A prime example would be my CObra. It has a specific look to it, so anyone who knows I made it would reconize it immediatly.

I am saying the same thing about that mesh above- It has a particular look to it for it to be recognizable to anyone who knew who the owner was in the first place.

So without further ado....

*kick*

I accept your kick only because I enjoy it. ;) That'll be $20.00... office rates, you know.

But really, I didn't get that intent from your post. And honestly, I still don't understand what you mean. :...:

Inorance is bliss.

-G

[Darrell Lawrence]

Somebody made a mug. I know who made this particular mug. It has incorrect or wrong stuff on the mug, but I still know who made it because of those things wrong with it.

Now go nitpic "wrong" and "incorrect" to your hearts content, but the point is whether or not I recognize the mug or not based on what's wrong with it.

;)

[spcglider]

...hmmm I don't recognize that model.

Not only are the engine fronts wrong, but so is the cockpit....

This is what I was referencing when I made my comment.

Nothing in there about wanting to know who made it, where it came from, what the modeler's intent with the design was. Just a proclamation that the work was "wrong". No qualifiers.

I can understand that what you wrote and what you meant were not the same thing. But even when you explained your intent, I still didn't get that from the post.

Lets put this to bed and just say that I misunderstood. :)

-Gordon

[Darrell Lawrence]

This is what I was referencing when I made my comment.

Nothing in there about wanting to know who made it, where it came from, what the modeler's intent with the design was. Just a proclamation that the work was "wrong". No qualifiers.

-Gordon
Nothing in where about wanting to know who made it?

I answered this post:

I find on my hard disk this viper mesh. I dont remember when and where I find it, but I've download it somewere years ago.
It is an .OBJ file complete with all the textures. It have also the internal display and the joystick. The models seems to be a low/med resolution model, perhaps for some kind of game (a flight/combat simulator? A "total conversion" MOD?).
Have you ever seen this mesh?
Plenty in there about wanting to know who made it.

[spcglider]

Nothing in where about wanting to know who made it?

I answered this post:


Plenty in there about wanting to know who made it.

Okay, we're going to have to agree to dis-agree. Respectfully, I'm not understanding your point here at all. I don't think I'm being myopic about the language... I re-read the entire thread and don't find anything that you posted asking who created the mesh nor even inferring the desire to know. You mentioned not recognizing the mesh, but I still find no question from you or innovari about who created it. Just that it was an old mesh found buried in a hard drive.

You may feel free to refer to me as "dense as a log". I just don't see it.

-Gordon

[Darrell Lawrence]

You're right. You totally missed it.

He asked if I recognized it. I said I didn't.

I also explained in more detail that I would remember/recognize a model like that given its details and knowing who made it.

It's my more detailed answer portion you're harping needlessly about.

[spcglider]

You're right. You totally missed it.

He asked if I recognized it. I said I didn't.

I also explained in more detail that I would remember/recognize a model like that given its details and knowing who made it.

It's my more detailed answer portion you're harping needlessly about.

No. I'm not. I have no issue with you not recognizing that mesh. I'm harping about the fact that you saw something and declared it was "wrong" without knowing anything about it.

Its really your definition of "wrong" that I have issue with. Your use of the language. Not your inability to identify the maker. THAT is MY point.

Obviously we aren't talking about the same thing and are unable to agree to dis-agree over our points, so let us please walk away from the moot argument. :salute:


-Gordon

[nguya]

Nice job, true what oldwardaggit said:

All those vipers are cool but then again, they are all based on the original so that's why and Galactica still holds the record in cool looking fighters as far as I'm concerned. :)

OWD

Sometimes you just can't beat original ideas!

[Starlost]

Not sure if there is a Scarlet in the series or not but it would be cool. Still need to model a good cylon basetar though..

[Smallworld]

As a matter of interest, is the Scarlet Viper considered canon? Has anyone done a good 3d model of it?

[Darrell Lawrence]

I've only seen the one by Brandon Bray- http://www.colonialfleets.com/downloads/details.php?image_id=12

And it's textured differently at that :LOL:

[Inzane]

Thats super useful.

[pappino]

Interesting and informative... thanks

[GATER]

Very nice indeed. :Nsalute:

[TeeJay]

innovari, great job on the viper! :thumbsup:

[skitterz]

nice mesh work

[Viper 1]

Hey.... If some one here can give me a clue as to how to upload jpegs to the site...I could show you guys some Scarlet Viper Physical Models, as well as some Standard Vipers.... :salute:

[CallsignRattler]

There is a Tshirt with this graphic on sale on Ebay.

[Viper 1]

I've put these pics up in other threads....but I'll put them up here because I said I would....
Here they are guys. The Scarlet Viper (unfortunately) is not concidered canon because it's a fan design, and only showed up in Hatch's "Second Coming" trailer...which was not official.

[gmd3d]

There is a Tshirt with this graphic on sale on Ebay.

The Problem with that is .. the guy never asked for permission top use the Graphic.. it as created by Warrior ..Who is a member and owner here ...

[dilbertman]

The Problem with that is .. the guy never asked for permission top use the Graphic.. it as created by Warrior ..Who is a member and owner here ...
See post #25 and up in this thread.

Jim

[Wraith]

Hello everyone! This is my first post, so be kind!!!!!! :)
In my book, nothing has come close to the original series Viper. It was designed by Ralph Mcquarrie who has the distinction of designing the only other beautiful space fighter (U.S.) the X-Wing.
In the new series, the Viper MK II has potential. They messed it up with the canopy (too wide), that lump under the bottom of the fuselage, and the fact that if you look at it from the rear (or the front) it looks like someone kicked it in the skirt! That vent in the nose is a bit weird, too, but I'll let that go. The Mk VII is just plain HIDEOUS. It doesn't even look like a Viper. Just a big gray lump. The DeSanto version has that stupid carapace on it that makes it look like a giant squid. Scarlet version- too much. A very childish design. The only other cool design
on the chart is the Viper Mk I from the game. If you fix the canopy (it should go straight across instead of down at a point, dumb!), place a transparancy on the top of it, make the lasers attached to the wing without being stuck in a "pocket", and make the nose look like the MK II (like in the FMV), and you've got a winner!
Best ship in the game hands down (design wise). The others are terribly clunky and heavy looking. Just my two cubits. Until next time.

[gmd3d]

See post #25 and up in this thread.

Jim

yes . :)

Viper1 those Vipers look cool , I alway like the model myself .. :)

and Welcome to CF CallsignRattler.. :thumbsup:

[Viper 1]

Thanks for the kind words Taranis

[Darkknight007]

The Viper Comparison Chart now has the game Vipers.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/darrell/viper_comparison1_t.jpg (http://www.colonialfleets.com/darrell/viper_comparison1.jpg)

Click on the image for the larger version.

Enjoy ;)

Very Cool Project :thumbsup:

[SilentBob]

Lookie what popped up at FineScale Modeler Magazine Forums..............
http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/608598/ShowPost.aspx

[wizardofflight]

Love the comparison Charts nice work!

Thanks for sharing.

Alan

[KJ]

I've put these pics up in other threads....but I'll put them up here because I said I would....
Here they are guys. The Scarlet Viper (unfortunately) is not concidered canon because it's a fan design, and only showed up in Hatch's "Second Coming" trailer...which was not official.


Canon be bloody damned!!!

The Scarlet Viper is a BEAUTIFUL design hands down and is just as fantastic as any other design out there and that includes the DeSanto re-designed Viper as well. Thank you so much for putting these pictures up Viper 1. Any chance this is will be available via commission to those fans that want it? These Scarlet Viper model picture shots are jaw droppingly great, i wanna purchase one RIGHT NOW!

Thats a Viper with predator styled "teeth" it looks hungrey for battle. Any chance of a link to some 3D red painted ones namesake wise, Viper 1? As i remember looking for pictures of this Viper back when "Battlestar Galactica: The 2nd Second Coming" was hot stuff back in the day (1999 to 2000) it was a must to see any and all pictures of this thing.

The Mike McAdams "blue markings/five laser cannon" styled Viper ain't canon either, but i'd like to see that puppy being modeled too and displayed online like this one day itself as well!

Was Mike's Viper ever modeled? Surely it would've been, considering its closer to the original design and only has minor changes to it and all.

KJ

[spcglider]

Canon be bloody damned!!!
KJ

The scarlet Viper, while being a well-done design in and of itself, does not appeal to me.

As a matter of preference, my personal view is that it is near impossible to improve the original design without applying a whole different design aesthetic to it. The "new" viper on the "new" show looks like it was designed by an anime mecha designer. The scarlet Viper looks like it was designed by Todd McFarlane. Not that there's anything wrong about that, its just a departure from the original aesthetic that doesn't strike a chord with me.

Vive' la Canon!!!


:salute: :D :) ;) :cool:

-G

[KJ]

The scarlet Viper, while being a well-done design in and of itself, does not appeal to me.

As a matter of preference, my personal view is that it is near impossible to improve the original design without applying a whole different design aesthetic to it. The "new" viper on the "new" show looks like it was designed by an anime mecha designer. The scarlet Viper looks like it was designed by Todd McFarlane. Not that there's anything wrong about that, its just a departure from the original aesthetic that doesn't strike a chord with me.

Vive' la Canon!!!


Thats just you.

Just cos you disagree with it doesn't mean us others within BG fandom do however!

No it wasn't Todd McFarlane who designed the Scarlet Viper but Steve Parady. If you have a problem with it, take it up with him and call his design McFarlane-ish to him and not me. Don't know about you, but last time i checked there was a multi-million dollar "McFarlane Toyline" that puts out magnificent designs, so i don't know if that "jab" is an insult to Steve Parady or a compliment but its certainly way off for some reason.

Secondly, whats all this about? The "new" viper on the "new" show looks like it was designed by an anime mecha designer.

Anime? Anime is very inspirational to many people whether they be artists or fans alike out there. Check out any book shop on the high street or comic book specialists shops and you'll see plenty of massive anime books with jaw dropping artwork to put the most hardend critic to shame.

Anime practically everywhere's these days and half of it being the good stuff and all!

Even if i don't watch the new Sci-fi Channel re-imagined Galactica show. I can't let mans dis Anime thinking its designs are generally poorly, what are you getting at? Mostly everything action/adventure wise thats animated on cable TV today is Anime/Japanimation in one form or another. Whereas before, it was something of that imported over from the East Asian TV markets in fewer numbers that was trying to break through (and still is today) to mainstream audiences in the Western and European TV markets and on DVD/VHS.

So what big deal, saying the new Galactica or any other show out there is borrowing from Anime and using mecha designs ain't a bad thing. Plenty of comic book artists use anime styled drawings these days and you'd be hard pressed looking for artists who draw any differently as well.

BattleChasers by Joe Maduereira would be a good place for you to start looking spcglider.

Anime is good. And i wouldn't mind if some of its 'mecha' aesthetics and influences turned up in a continuation Battlestar Galactica movie personally! The Vincent Guastini Cylon from Singer and DeSanto's early concepts for example, looks way more "badass" to me than DeSanto's later Cylon concept, although i like both very much and thats just my opinon, others on here may also like this in a similar fashion to my own sense of tastes but may disagree in some areas though etc. Guastini's looks like a cross between something scifi-ish and medievil from "Warhammer" and blatant 'Anime' mecha designs shoved in there for good measure. But i won't put down DeSanto's later human hybrid Cylon designs cos the Vincent Guastini one in my mind edges out a little further to me anyways.

If anything, non-canon fan additions have improved upon the original designs aesthetic's somewhat by adding to it in stylish ways rather than a complete do-over or making major alterations. The Steve Parady "Scarlet Viper", The Mike McAdams "Viper" and the DeSanto Vipers all come across as the most logical updates of the Colonial Viper "Starhound" fighter craft from Battlestar Galactica, far as aesthetics go!

Vive' la Scarlet Viper, Vive' la DeSanto Viper, Vive' la Mike McAdams Viper and Vive' la Guastini Cylon Centurion to boot!

:cool: :D ;)

KJ

[spcglider]

Thats just you.

Just cos you disagree with it doesn't mean us others within BG fandom do however!


All due respect... Just expressing an opinion.
You're reading SO much into my post that I don't know where to begin. :(
I really don't like being misunderstood. Makes me feel like I'm not doing my job communications-wise. So here we go:

I stated my opinion, you stated yours. I don't agree that the scralet viper is a logical progression from the TOS viper and I don't like the design. Plain and simple. I thought I was someplace where I could express that as an opinion. Again, it is a perfectly valid offering design-wise... I just doesn't appeal to me.


No it wasn't Todd McFarlane who designed the Scarlet Viper but Steve Parady. If you have a problem with it, take it up with him and call his design McFarlane-ish to him and not me. Don't know about you, but last time i checked there was a multi-million dollar "McFarlane Toyline" that puts out magnificent designs, so i don't know if that "jab" is an insult to Steve Parady or a compliment but its certainly way off for some reason.


I didnt mean to give the impression that I thought that TMcF designed the scarlet viper. And props to Steve Parady for exercising his creativity and keeping the fandom rolling.

I made no inference that TmcF design was bad. All I did was use his aesthetic as a familiar baseline for people to refer to. You assumed I was "jabbing".

I don't like the design. The fact that it reminds me of a Todd McFarlane style is beside the point. And that I don't like it reflects in no way on Steve's ability to design. He's probably done a hundred other things I WOULD like. ;)


Secondly, whats all this about? The "new" viper on the "new" show looks like it was designed by an anime mecha designer.

Anime? Anime is very inspirational to many people whether they be artists or fans alike out there. Check out any book shop on the high street or comic book specialists shops and you'll see plenty of massive anime books with jaw dropping artwork to put the most hardend critic to shame.

Anime practically everywhere's these days and half of it being the good stuff and all!


Only half? Then you think the other half is bad? What's wrong with you? Are you BLIND??? All anime was sent by GOD!!! How DARE you defame even HALF of ANIME??? :rotf:

Okay, the example was a bit over the top. Apologies. Just trying to illustrate a point.:salute:

Even if i don't watch the new Sci-fi Channel re-imagined Galactica show. I can't let mans dis Anime thinking its designs are generally poorly, what are you getting at? Mostly everything action/adventure wise thats animated on cable TV today is Anime/Japanimation in one form or another. Whereas before, it was something of that imported over from the East Asian TV markets in fewer numbers that was trying to break through (and still is today) to mainstream audiences in the Western and European TV markets and on DVD/VHS.

I was there when the "anime invasion" began. Back in the 1960s. I know all about it. I was part of one of the first anime clubs in the US. I'm not a tourist. I'm an old-school official geek like the rest of you. Emphasis on OLD. :cool:


So what big deal, saying the new Galactica or any other show out there is borrowing from Anime and using mecha designs ain't a bad thing. Plenty of comic book artists use anime styled drawings these days and you'd be hard pressed looking for artists who draw any differently as well.

BattleChasers by Joe Maduereira would be a good place for you to start looking spcglider.


You have NO IDEA how hard I've been looking at comic art in the last three years. :...:

I am pleased to inform that I have been offered a contract with ARCHAIA PRESS (Publishers of the award winning Artesia series and the monumentally successful MOUSEGUARD) for MY comic book series called DEEP SALVAGE. Coming in 2007. :thumbsup: :salute: Archaia is no fly-by-night company... they are the hottest thing going in the industry these days. Check 'em out. WWW.ASPCOMICS.COM

I know about comic book art. I know about Manga. I've been studying and moving about in the the industry and making professional contacts for three years to get my book published. And THAT is why I felt qualified to make the comparison.

I AM an anime fan. But I don't think that applying that aesthetic to Galactica is a necessarily good idea. In fact, I even wrote an article for two fanzines long ago (1986) called "Battlestar Hiroshima?" exploring what Galactica would have looked like if it had been done by a Japanese animation company. I even drew characters based on popular anime figures of the time. :LOL: Imagine MACROSS' Hikaru Ichijio in a Galactica uniform playing Apollo...

That's not saying that it can't be done. I have yet to see any example to convince me.


Anime is good. And i wouldn't mind if some of it turned up in a continuation movie personally! The Vincent Guastini Cylon from Singer and DeSanto early concepts looks way more "badass" to me than DeSanto's Cylon, although i like both very much and thats just my opinon others may also like this in a similar fashion to my own sense of tastes but may disagree in some areas though etc. Guastini's looks like a cross between something scifi-ish and medievil from "Warhammer" and blatant 'Anime' mecha designs shoved in there for good measure. But i won't put down DeSanto's later human hybrid Cylon designs cos the Vincent Guastini one in my mind edges out a little further to me anyways.

If anything, non-canon fan additions have improved upon the original designs aesthetic's somewhat by adding to it in stylish ways rather than a complete do-over or making major alterations. The Steve Parady "Scarlet Viper", The Mike McAdams "Viper" and the DeSanto Vipers all come across as the most logical updates of the Colonial Viper "Starhound" fighter craft from Battlestar Galactica, far as aesthetics go!
KJ

While we're on the subject, I especially didn't like the Guastiani cylon design. It doesn't work in the context for me. I'm not a fan of the Warhammer styling.

I'm not telling you that YOU can't like it. I'm not saying that it must be obliterated and that it bears no validity as a design. I'm not declaring it an enemy of the fan state.

I just don't like it. Please don't imply that I MUST like it or that I am wrong for NOT liking it. :salute:

You'll get no argument from me about the fan's contributions to the larger fringe melange of Galactica design. There's alot of creativity going on out there. Creativity inspired by a 30 year old TV show. That's gotta say something. :colonial: :D

There now, I pushed your buttons and you've pushed mine (either by accident or design...doesn't matter). But I didn't feel inclined to let your questions go unresponded. I'm not looking to start a huge kafuffle... this is essentially just a mis-understanding. I've stated my case and answers without trying to be personal. If you'd like to have the last word, please do. :salute:

We obviously BOTH love TOS Galactica. That makes us kin in some way, shape or form. And frankly, there is so much division in fandoms that it is a shame that people can't find ways to get around it. :colonial: :)

I'm here to make friends. So what do you say? Agree to dis-agree? Pax?

-Gordon

[KJ]

And like i said, thats just you and your opinion.

As much as you have your right to voice it, i certainly have my right to argue and disagree with it saying the Scarlet Viper IS that damn good to begin with! so lets not get all touchy about it!

I'm not holding a gun to your head forcing you to like what i like, am i? Hell no, i don't force my opinions on anyone, but i will debate mine if their willing to listen to me. And me to yours of course (which have, hence this debate right now). I wouldn't be able to argue anything with anybody, if i pulled the trigger now would i? Bad for business and its just plain wrong at the end of the day anyhow.

While we're on the subject, I especially didn't like the Guastiani cylon design. It doesn't work in the context for me. I'm not a fan of the Warhammer styling.

I'm not telling you that YOU can't like it. I'm not saying that it must be obliterated and that it bears no validity as a design. I'm not declaring it an enemy of the fan state.

I just don't like it. Please don't imply that I MUST like it or that I am wrong for NOT liking it.

Relax already, i told you i'm not armed, LOOK! no gun o.k. :rotf:

And yes, i disagree right there with that statement. Had either the Hatch or Singer/DeSanto versions of a Battlestar Galactica's continuation been met by the studio execs and they greenlit either version. Then you would've possibly seen Vincent Guastini's Cylon, DeSanto's version of the Cylons. Or we could've gotten Hatch's Galactica with Scarlet Vipers pulling manuevers onscreen with Starbuck and Boomer blasting Cylon Raiders away with 'Young Blood' hotshot pilots along with their own friggin offspring fighting besides them in battle etc?

You're too quick to judge is all i'm saying. Hell so could i from your perspective, but i at i'm hearing you out aren't i. Thing is i hope you're doing the same from mine is all?

:thumbsup:

Its a matter of taste as an individual isn't it. Never said yours was bad by any means only that i like the Scarlet Viper and Guastini Cylon far as all the pre-production designs of continuation efforts we've seen over the years is all. While i like DeSanto's concepts a hell of alot, i don't worship the guy's feet o.k. Both his and Bryan Singer's version of Galactica was something the fans wanted badly. But so did Hatch's Galactica inspire such a following too, had it been greenlit i'm sure fans would've been overjoyed at Galactica's return on television with its new revived look, storylines and visual updated concepts.

I guess in the perfect world or parallel universe that is. Some lucky planet Earth got the Galactica revival that was a combination of both Singer/DeSanto and Richard Hatch's BG together satisfing sci-fi fans all the more!

KJ

[KJ]

Thing of beauty!


http://www.curemode.com/battlestar/images/spvip12.jpg

As are these of course...


http://www.battlestarpegasus.com/images/models/sparady/ScarletVipers1_SteveParady.jpg


http://culttvman.com/assets/images-SFTV-2005/parleyscarletviper01.jpg


http://culttvman.com/assets/images-SFTV-2005/parleyscarletviper04.jpg


And go here to read up more on how you can kinda build your own Scarlet Viper too?

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/other/sb_scarlet.htm


KJ

[Smallworld]

Not wishing to fan the flames or anything, but I'm afraid I dont really like the Scarlet viper either, or the new De Santo one for that matter. The original rocks, and I quite like the new series one too. Itsn't that the great thing about fandom, everybody has an opinion and they are all right! ;)

[KJ]

Fair enough then.

Just cos others disagree, and me and others agree to like it doesn't mean its a poor design. I was just defending Steve Parady's design is all nothing more. I didn't hurl insults or put a 'contract' out on anyone for anything said here. I'm fan just like the rest of you who's been here a long time is all, speaking his mind. I'm not the villain Darkseid from DC's new god comics looking for the "Anti- Life" Equation forcing everyone one day to bend to my will power!

Just a guy with an opinion as you all have one yourselves and are perfectly entitled to.

But i'm pointing out the reactions here are a little hard on the Scarlet Viper for some bizarre reason? I know times change but back in 1999/2000. 99.9 fans practically loved it is all i'm saying.

What about Mike McAdams Viper additions seen here for the BG:2nd Coming trailer then, whats the opinon on this well designed upgraded Colonial Viper...?

http://battlestar.freeservers.com/mygallery3.html

KJ

[Viper 1]

Since we are sharing our pics of the Scarlet Viper.....
Here's mine.
I love the design too. But I did feel it needed some polishing so I made my own twists to Steve's basic design and have stadardized them now.
This will soon be my own Conversion Kit for the R/M Viper model.

[spcglider]

Fair enough then.

Just cos others disagree, and me and others agree to like it doesn't mean its a poor design. I was just defending Steve Parady's design is all nothing more.


Looks like you're reaching for a gun to me.... :rotf:

And it looks that this is turning into what I feared.

No reason to defend the design especially since nobody called it bad nor a poor design. Or has someone else been calling it such? Are there other folks badmouthing the design? I may have missed that. But I certainly hope this isn't just about me not liking it.


I didn't hurl insults or put a 'contract' out on anyone for anything said here. I'm fan just like the rest of you who's been here a long time is all, speaking his mind. I'm not the villain Darkseid from DC's new god comics looking for the "Anti- Life" Equation forcing everyone one day to bend to my will power!

Didn't see anybody do that either. Am I missing something?


Just a guy with an opinion as you all have one yourselves and are perfectly entitled to.

Yep...all opinions. Keeping that in mind, it still doesn't appeal to me. No hacks on anybody, least of all the designer or on you for liking it.

It was nothing more than an expression of my taste. Please don't take it as anything but.


But i'm pointing out the reactions here are a little hard on the Scarlet Viper for some bizarre reason? I know times change but back in 1999/2000. 99.9 fans practically loved it is all i'm saying.

Maybe you've just discovered a pocket of people who aren't attracted to the design? I don't think that's bizarre. And to be honest, I must have been the .1 percent of all the fans out there because I didn't like it even back then. Of course, I don't recall being polled about it.

I guess it's time to lay the cards out on the table... I don't like Richard Hatch's novels either. There. I said it. On the board. For everyone to see.

Read them. Beginning to end. Didn't like them.

Honest truth? I didn't find the Second Coming trailer to be the, well... "second coming" either. It was all good work. Everybody obviously busted arse to make it as best they could. But I didn't enjoy it as I thought I would.

Man am I some kind of bastard or what? Not liking this stuff. I must be broken.


What about Mike McAdams Viper additions seen here for the BG:2nd Coming trailer then, whats the opinon on this well designed upgraded Colonial Viper...?

http://battlestar.freeservers.com/mygallery3.html

KJ

Since you asked, I have this to say about it. Speaking strictly for myself, I like the original design. I'm non-plussed by the two-seater design, but it's a canonical addition if you accept Galactica 1980, or parts of it, as canon. That's a personal choice each one of us has to make for ourselves. I choose to accept parts and not the whole. ;)

I don't think that the original viper design needs to be changed. Or added to. Or modified. And I won't be doing it myself any time in the future. But I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't or can't. I will, however, reserve the right to my own opinion about the designs I am shown. And just because I say I don't like it doesn't invalidate it as a design. And just because I don't like it doesn't constitute an attack on the designer. :salute:

Mike McAdams did some very nice work there. He did himself proud. I appreciate the thought and design he put into it. But as you can guess, I'm not interested in getting a model kit of his version to put on my shelf. Its not that I dislike it so much as the scarlet viper, but am more ambivalent to the changes. Offer me the original design over this one and I'll take the original. :)

-Gordon

[KJ]

There now, I pushed your buttons and you've pushed mine (either by accident or design...doesn't matter). But I didn't feel inclined to let your questions go unresponded. I'm not looking to start a huge kafuffle... this is essentially just a mis-understanding. I've stated my case and answers without trying to be personal. If you'd like to have the last word, please do. *

Hmmm?

Looks like you're reaching for a gun to me....

And it looks that this is turning into what I feared.

Then don't harp on about it. You've already stated you said your piece* and i'm bound to pop back and say mine (and i did earlier) so why go on with it? We're done right, if not it'll just go on getting worse. Don't try to get cute by furthering it along using 'humor', if you want it to stop so badly already, didn't you say you fear this might happen.

Doesn't sound like the actions of somebody who "fears" an ongoing and rather innocent 'misunderstanding' morhping into bitter arguing to me?

:(



Since we are sharing our pics of the Scarlet Viper.....
Here's mine.
I love the design too. But I did feel it needed some polishing so I made my own twists to Steve's basic design and have stadardized them now.
This will soon be my own Conversion Kit for the R/M Viper model.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=625

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=626

Viper 1 those are so beautiful, thanks for sharing it with us on here. It's just fantastic!

:cool: :thumbsup:

If new Battlestar Galactica model kits come out, i hope i can contact you asking for a conversaion kit to make a Scarlet Viper for myself. Would go nice with my unbuilt 'Revell Monogram' press classic Viper model kit i got a few years back. I half built mine cos i wanted a canopy with a Colonial Warrior inside and for it to be painted and detailed up just right.

KJ

[Viper 1]

[Viper 1 those are so beautiful, thanks for sharing it with us on here. It's just fantastic!

:cool: :thumbsup:

If new Battlestar Galactica model kits come out, i hope i can contact you asking for a conversaion kit to make a Scarlet Viper for myself. Would go nice with my unbuilt 'Revell Monogram' press classic Viper model kit i got a few years back. I half built mine cos i wanted a canopy with a Colonial Warrior inside and for it to be painted and detailed up just right.

KJ[/QUOTE]


Thanks very much. PM me and I'll let you know about stuff I have available for the R/M Viper.
Here's just a couple of pics of what I got.....

[KJ]

Once again you've got a few goodies to share! :D :salute:

A Viper with yellow markings? Hmmm reminds me of the Ralph McQuarrie early Viper pics that didn't have the dark red stripes etc. Looks great Viper 1, i like the more detailed 'engine exhausts' and all, they actually look all heavy and metallic and whatnot.

Kinda wondered how stylised Vipers woud look on the show with different sorts of stripes in other colours like blue, yellow and green even, besides the classic red on the craft's hull. Guess getting several model kits would allow fans to experiment along those lines.

Noticed she's also a two seater Viper and all judging from the canopy size. Any chance of seeing any shots of this 'yellow striped' two seater Viper from the front as well?

Not bad mate. :cool:

Detailed as fan modified model kits are, i wonder what it would be like if you could actually film all the models on here, the same way as they did back in the late 70's with the same techniques used in a studio and bring these bad boys to life? Why not seeing as you can prop them up for display on a long shaft. All you'd need is to put some fan models in a studio and film them on blue or green backdrop with several cameras going at once and capture various shots on digital film and work them into a few "test shots" of say a launch sequence, passing through space, pulling off some tactical manuevers, filming the white 'exhaust stream' of thrust coming out from the engines etc.

Volia your model comes to life. Certainly would add another dimension to making Vipers or any other sci-fi craft come to life and the love of putting them together and all.

Going back to Mike McAdams Viper design. What if he attempted to do the 'Azure-Class' Viper from the Hatch novels? I mean in the Armageddon novel its mentioned there was the "Azure Class" Viper before the Scarlet design. Something that came after the classic Viper from the series but was replaced by the Scarlet-Class Viper afterwards inbetween 18 yahrens or so in the Richard Hatch novel's Battlestar Galactica continuity.

Mike McAdams design could be the Azure-Class Viper? Laser cannons on the wing tips and all, blue markings but similar basic 'starhound' Viper class with a few touch ups etc.

Which is funny when i think back to last year when i saw Richard's trailer at Memorabilia in Birmingham. not sure if i saw it in there, but then i'd guess i'd need to see the trailer on a bigger screen to take it all in etc.

Think you'd ever model Mike's updated Viper too?

KJ

[Viper 1]

Thanks again for the praise mate.... :D
I am really humbled that so many on these boards like my stuff. :rolleyes:
As for really filming them...there are plans in the works to film a squadron once I have enough of them built. Some simple shots.... we'll have to see.
And yes... that is a two seater. This is my own design. Basically how I thought the one from G80 should have looked if they had put a little more thought into it.
So, as requested, here are some more pics of the Recon Viper.

[RacerX]

well i didn't realize there were so many differnt versions of the MKII and after see the work here i'm going to have to buckle down on my models and try a to bring them up to snuff.

[KJ]

Why so surprised at the compliments?

Any time i've handed them out, its generally because i'm truly wowed at what i'm looking at and i'm not an easy man to impress either.

I suppose those yellow markings put that Viper in Gold Squadron or Gold Spar Squadron or even Yellow Squadron as one of the additional squadrons of th Galactica Apollo mentioned to Starbuck during their deception to the Cylon Basestar in the pilot episode?

The yellow markings along with the two seater 'canopy' make it stand out so superb like and all. You have every right to be proud of yourself Viper 1.

Hmmm, one Colonial Warrior flies the Viper, what does the Warrior do? Scan and handle the computer systems of the Viper, give read outs of the system they're in, or handles the weapons cos he's a better "gunner" than the pilot etc?

Long and boring deep space probes must be 'murder' for two Warriors huh... :LOL:

Nah man, the detailed close ups are excellent. The Viper might be a great craft but like Sheba once said in WOTG, they are small and "cramped" hardly any comfort in there at all. you'd need alot of discipline to sit still in a Viper and not lose your head or be afraid of tight enclosed spaces etc.

Had BG gone on a second season thats perhaps what the 2nd season two seater Viper would've looked like. Did you "mold" the canopy yourself Viper 1? And do you have any others you're working on presently. Have you done alternate Vipers with different canopy and marking designs at all.

KJ

[KJ]

By the way, i thought the 'Recon Viper' would be Starbuck's Cora "Starchaser" test Viper, with that written in "red" on the left hand side of the Viper with no lasers on it etc?

KJ

[Viper 1]

well i didn't realize there were so many differnt versions of the MKII and after see the work here i'm going to have to buckle down on my models and try a to bring them up to snuff.


Welcome RacerX,
Just to clarify..... everything you have been seeing here are versions of the Mk 1 Viper not the Mk 2.... (although I do refer to the Scarlet Viper as a Mk 2)
The official Mk II Viper is the DeSanto version that was planed for his continuation, and also that BlueSquadron is making available elswhere on these boards. :cool:
(and if your into the bastardrization that's on Sci-Fi channel right now...they call that the Mk II as well) :/:
Anyway I have several detail sets for the old Revell/Monogram Viper kit available so contact me if you need anything to spruce up your old models. :salute:

[Viper 1]

By the way, i thought the 'Recon Viper' would be Starbuck's Cora "Starchaser" test Viper, with that written in "red" on the left hand side of the Viper with no lasers on it etc?

KJ


Well that Viper, from "The Long Patrol", was just a standard "Starhound" class (that name is just so funny) Viper with the modifications of C.O.R.A. and the extra generators, or turbines or what ever they did to it to eliminate the laser generators. :wtf:
It was experimental..... My design is more of the practical approach to the design. Like the Navy today....they have two seat TomCats with a pilot and a "Reo", a spotter that handels the techical side of the plane while the pilot is busy doing the flying. It's something that.... like you said KJ.... you could have seen in a second season of Galactica. It would have brought the audience closer to the show by bringing them closer to real life.....(so to speak...with the association to the navy pilots)
That's my bad analogy any way.

And I thank you once again for the cudos on my models.
would you like some more pics???

The Yellow markings put this Recon/Scout Viper in Yellow Squadron on the Galactica. I jus think it makes more sence that if your gonna have different squadrons with different color names...you should have the corisponding markings on the Vipers
(and to tell a little secret..... they would have done that on the original show..if they had had enough money to build enough Vipers, and not just use and reuse stock footage over and over again.)
i will eventually have Vipers from each Squadron of the Galactica..... Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow..... (but I won't be doing Purple and Orange.....since they don't exist...except in Starbuck's mind... ;) )
I will even have Scarlet Vipers from Gray Squadron and Black Squadron from the Battlestar Millennia, which is in a story line that I developed back when DeSanto was in the process of his continuation.

[KJ]

I will even have Scarlet Vipers from Gray Squadron and Black Squadron from the Battlestar Millennia, which is in a story line that I developed back when DeSanto was in the process of his continuation.

Yeah CF's own Titon made a magnificent "Fan Movie" of Battlestar Millenia years ago which is still unfinished as of this day? Hope he gets to finish it one day, Galactica needs all the original fan movies it can put out there!

And I thank you once again for the cudos on my models.
would you like some more pics???

Hey not just for little old me, lets see if you can put'em all out there and set a new record? Getting all Galactica fans to drool over their PC's and Mac's keyboards! If you've got any X-Wings and Starfuries from other sci-fi's put'em up as well, seeing your entire portfolio of models would be nice Viper 1! But its your choice of course, i understand if you don't want to share it all however.

Anyway I have several detail sets for the old Revell/Monogram Viper kit available so contact me if you need anything to spruce up your old models.

Well since i only have one Revell Viper model right now (gotta build the classic Viper too), i want to wait until the new "kits" come out so i'll have plenty of choices as to what i want to add far as half a dozen different looking Colonial Viper models etc. Get back to me when they're out or i'll pm you and i'll ask you as well too dude! Wouldn't mind building a DeSanto styled Viper as well, if i knew how to for display purposes and all.

A range of different Viper models next to each other would be any Galactica fan's dream come true!

KJ

[dilbertman]

Have always liked these two Viper designs.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33521&postcount=39

http://battlestar.freeservers.com/mygallery3.html

Jim :thumbsup:

[Viper 1]

I wouldn't mind trying my hand at making one of those Interceptor Vipers.
Anyone have a really good 4 side view of it? Or just a clear pic of whats on the web?
In the mean time...for KJ and all who may not have seen it on other threads here...here is my standard Viper with all of my accurizing parts.

[KJ]

Oh i have...see the other page for the unfinished projects.

Fantastic chief, thanks for putting this up.

If Revell were still selling Vipers models in shops i think this kinda inspiration would've made me raid their stores 5x times over by now?

I wouldn't mind trying my hand at making one of those Interceptor Vipers.


Hmm, thought Mike's Vipers were called Assault Vipers?

Interceptors sounds more threatening and "hardcore" though.

Say Viper 1. You should really lend those Vipers to Sept17th for him to film some shots for the 14th Colony BG fan movie he's doing? Actual 3D models filmed just like in the TOS Galactica would made for some detailed realistic looking shots. Surely as a modeler you'd prefer seeing actual models than pure CGI or a combination and mix of both? And you'd have some kinda fame of having your Vipers onscreen.

Honestly if those models of yours need to be filmed, they should be in a least a fan based project. I'd love to see those beautiful Viper models you've done be in a project, so why not ask Sept17th if its at all possible. Second off show your portfolio of models to Revell themselves and tell'em thats how its done.

I seriously can't believe model buildings a dying art. Surely everyone build something at one time or another. I've dooled and messed about sure, but i'm saving my Viper for a serious makeover and building process when i'm into modelling again 100%. And boy, your stuff is damn well inspiring me to do something about it sharp-ish like.

KJ

[dilbertman]

Here's alittle info on the Viper Interceptor. Don't think it will help, but it background on where it's from.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2165&highlight=firehouse

Jim

[Viper 1]

Thanks there dilbert,
But the links didn't take me anywhere that would help on info on the Interceptor/Assault Viper.
Any other help?

[dilbertman]

I am pleased to inform that I have been offered a contract with ARCHAIA PRESS (Publishers of the award winning Artesia series and the monumentally successful MOUSEGUARD) for MY comic book series called DEEP SALVAGE. Coming in 2007. :thumbsup: :salute: Archaia is no fly-by-night company... they are the hottest thing going in the industry these days. Check 'em out. WWW.ASPCOMICS.COM
-Gordon
Any update on this???

Jim

[Emerys]

Lovely work Viper 1 - I've not started mine yet but I'll be using those pics for reference! It looks great!