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Eric Paddon
December 29th, 2004, 09:56 PM
This thread will be for discussion on changes etc. on adapting episode #10 "War Of The Gods" and conforming the story to a continuous season arc storyline.

Senmut
February 23rd, 2005, 08:03 PM
I would like to have seen more of the Ship of Lights, besides just a matte painting. From different angles and such would have given it more of a feeling of depth.

Spike The Cylon
February 26th, 2005, 04:05 PM
I would have gone deeper into Iblis's background. Maybe have a flashback to the start of the 1000 Yahren war, and see him in the Cylon capital.

:colonial: :cylon: :viper:

BST
February 26th, 2005, 04:52 PM
I've always thought of this episode as being the "defining moment" of the entire show. The bits and pieces given in the show seem to indicate that the Colonial-Cylon conflict is just part of a much larger conflict, a proxy war, if you will. The events portrayed in this episode could have been the inspiration for an series-long story-arc.

I would definitely delve deeper into Iblis' character and background which would very likely establish him as the Imperious Leader. Equally important would be to expand upon the situation between Iblis and the BOL and how he fell from grace, as well as the BOL's place in Colonial society. Are they "angels" or "gods"?

Eric Paddon
February 28th, 2005, 10:34 PM
This particular one was the first adaptation I did where my intent was to improve on what I felt was the very inadequate novelization. Those who've read it will note how the novelization gave us a weak-kneed Adama who doesn't boldy stand up to Iblis and has to be led around by Apollo more; an improbable ending in which Baltar is returned by the SOL to his baseship (with this point conveniently set aside when "Baltar's Escape" was given novelization treatment) and most infuriating the whole elimination of the Baltar-Iblis conversation and with it the connection between Iblis and the origins of the Cylon robot race that is IMO the most critical subtext of this entire episode.

I'll go into more detail about what I did when I finally work my way forward with the other episodes starting with "Magnificent Warriors".

Eric Paddon
April 1st, 2005, 03:28 PM
Okay, time now for the in-depth account of what I did here. As I said this was the first time I tried to "improve" over an existing adaptation.

#1-For the opening patrol sequence of Silver Spar group, I decided for no other reason to add Cree from GOIPZ just to show that he's still around (and that gives Starbuck a little extra reason for being concerned about what's happened to them)

#2-Where does the triad game take place? Confusing editing makes it look like it takes place on the Galactica but of course we see in subsequent episodes it takes place on the Rising Star. Since I doubt a battlestar would have a triad court with a spectator's gallery we adjust this one rather quickly.

#3-In the episode, we recall how when Apollo, Sheba, Starbuck arrive at the wreckage of the ship the infrared lighting is gone and they're "normal" again. This was because they'd run out of infrared film, but the subtle implication that I made explicit was because the vegetation was burnt out that's why the red illumination disappeared and things were "normal" again.

#4-There have been a lot of complaints (I think unjust) about the manner in which Sheba submits to Iblis' control but just to put those people at ease, make it clear that from the outset Sheba's loneliness is what Iblis is taking advantage of, and the fact that Apollo hasn't felt able to be open with Sheba about how he really feels about her has only compounded that. Plus, I felt it was important to show that Apollo's mistrust of Iblis stemmed more from jealousy and less from "Apollo has perfectly reasoned it out as to what Iblis is."

#5-Make sure that for the Council sequences, more of the Council members we only saw in a single episode like Sires Anton, Domra etc. play a part.

#6-Major change that I felt was needed to address a glaring plothole. After Baltar is captured, why doesn't Lucifer simply launch an attack of his own? And how is it that the Cylons lose track of the Galactica after this episode when Baltar's baseship has to know where the Fleet is at this point? This requires the use of subpoints for this one!

A. After the suicide attacks of "Fire In Space" end unsuccessfully, Baltar, who has lost his two supporting baseships in LL has to maintain the pursuit but he has to do it with a depleted force that consists of what's left of his own fighters and what can be gotten on short notice from Gomorrah. He is in a position where he can still stalk and pursue but not launch a final assault at this point because of depleted strength (and this would also account for him getting spooked by the SOL)

B. Lucifer recognizes the folly of what Baltar is trying to do and decides that he's going to purposefully write him off.....initially. However, after Baltar's disappearance he received a communique from Spektor (newly installed as Gomorrha's basestar commander thanks to Baltar's influence) that tells him that the Imperious Leader wants to know what Lucifer intends to do about Baltar's disappearance. Lucifer thus, is left with no choice but to mount a new attack which segues into......

C. After the scene of Baltar being humbled before Iblis and being dragged off, a skeptical Council member (Anton) challenges Iblis on the idea that the first task of "delivering the enemy" has been fulfilled because Baltar's baseship still knows where the Fleet is, and that a more dramatic demonstration is required to consider the first task fulfilled. Iblis ends up agreeing to this.

D. When the Cylon attack force closes in, Iblis, in a moment of seclusion, uses his power of dominion over the Cylons (because they are, as we learn ultimately from his conversation with Baltar, his own creation) to in effect have the baseship and the attack force hurled across the stars, rendering the danger of Cylon pursuit now eliminated from the Fleet's standpoint. *This* dramatic demonstration of strength on his part against the Cylons is what causes the Fleet to go into a celebratory stupor that we see in Part 2, not the mere capture of Baltar.

E. To correlate with "Hand Of God", there is a final scene of Lucifer offering his report to the Imperious Leader on what has happened, and the Leader orders the dispersal of all available baseships across the widest possible perimeter in the hopes of picking up the Fleet again. That is how one lone baseship will be in place to intercept in "Hand Of God."

#7-The rest of the story pretty much proceeds the same as we know it. The only major change I made was that after Apollo's "death" and resurrection, Sheba by this point knows that she's in love with Apollo but isn't going to press him on it until she feels the time is right (which of course won't come until HOG).

And that's that!

SpyOne
April 1st, 2005, 07:09 PM
D. When the Cylon attack force closes in, Iblis, in a moment of seclusion, uses his power of dominion over the Cylons (because they are, as we learn ultimately from his conversation with Baltar, his own creation) to in effect have the baseship and the attack force hurled across the stars, rendering the danger of Cylon pursuit now eliminated from the Fleet's standpoint. *This* dramatic demonstration of strength on his part against the Cylons is what causes the Fleet to go into a celebratory stupor that we see in Part 2, not the mere capture of Baltar.

I don't really like this part, and my reason is I do not like Iblis making an overt display of power (until the very end).
For most of the story, Iblis may not be actually doing anything. Sure, he "delivers Baltar", but we don't see him do anything to make that happen. Maybe it's coincidence, maybe he somehow knew Baltar was coming, maybe he's just a good guesser. :)
Until he moves against Apollo, I don't think there should be any concrete evidence, not for the audience and certainly not for the Galacticans, that Iblis is anything more/other than human.

IMO, YMMV.

Eric Paddon
April 1st, 2005, 07:29 PM
To clarify, it's not that Iblis puts on the demonstration in front of everyone else. The event happens where suddenly the Cylons disappear, and no one might know how he did it, but they're quick to give him the credit.

Fair point about keeping the mystery (though chronologically speaking this would take place at the same point in the episode where we get our first real clue in the conversation with Baltar) but I just couldn't buy the argument that capturing Baltar was sufficient to account for fulfilling the first task and explaining the disappearance of the Cylons in subsequent episodes and that something more dramatic had to happen to explain their absence until HOG. Someone once suggested that Iblis may have helped maneuver the Fleet away to a position far removed from where the Cylons were but the problem with that is, that would have made it impossible for Apollo and everyone else to return to the planet they found him on after Baltar was captured.

Senmut
January 4th, 2006, 02:35 AM
I just took it that the absence of Cylons until HOG was due to all the confusion caused by the GAL and PEG kicking Cylon butt in LL. With two BaseShips destroyed, maybe a (Impy's) third, and the whole Gamoray base wiped, it might take a while before things are settled enough to allow the Cylons to resume the pursuit.
One wonders if they ever discovered Terra.

Eric Paddon
January 4th, 2006, 02:56 PM
The events of LL, and the losses incurred from FIS I think explains why at the beginning of WOTG we only see Baltar's baseship alone and with no reinforcement, and why he hasn't been able to attack since FIS because he no longer has sufficient strength to do so. However, once Baltar gets captured you then have to explain what happens to his baseship, which knows where the Fleet is, and that's why I think WOTG ultimately, no matter which why you rewrite it, needs that stronger Second Act in terms of plausibly explaining why there won't be any more Cylons seen until HOG.

BST
January 4th, 2006, 04:39 PM
The events of LL, and the losses incurred from FIS I think explains why at the beginning of WOTG we only see Baltar's baseship alone and with no reinforcement, and why he hasn't been able to attack since FIS because he no longer has sufficient strength to do so. However, once Baltar gets captured you then have to explain what happens to his baseship, which knows where the Fleet is, and that's why I think WOTG ultimately, no matter which why you rewrite it, needs that stronger Second Act in terms of plausibly explaining why there won't be any more Cylons seen until HOG.

The only possibility may be that Iblis or the Beings of Light were able shield the Fleet from the Cylon scanners. Once the trail 'went cold', the Cylons would have had no choice but, to start from scratch. Also, considering that the Baseship encountered in HOG was not commanded by Lucifer, it would seem that they were either just in the area or part of a more extensive search mission IF Lucifer had advised the Imperious Leader about Baltar's 'deliverance' to the Colonials.

Eric Paddon
January 4th, 2006, 06:28 PM
"One" possibility Pete, but not the "only" one. ;)

BST
January 4th, 2006, 06:47 PM
"One" possibility Pete, but not the "only" one. ;)

Just like the universe.....infinite. :)

Eric Paddon
January 4th, 2006, 06:53 PM
Which is what's so great about the world of Galactica fandom creativity! :)

Whatever solution one thinks is the best explanation, if I were ranking episode sequences that needed strengthening the most, the middle act of WOTG on this point would be at the top of the list from my standpoint, followed by clarifying at the end of the Terran trilogy why the Fleet can't consider settling in that civilization beyond the simple fact that Terra is not Earth.

BST
January 4th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Agreed.

Regarding settlement on Terra, a thought comes to mind. Even though their quest is to find Earth, the primary reason is to engage Earth's assistance in fighting the Cylons. Since they already know that Terra's technology is inferior to their own, it doesn't really make sense for them to settle there.

;)

Eric Paddon
January 4th, 2006, 07:26 PM
Yes, though it stands to figure that a Council member (a less stupid one) might argue that isn't it their duty to help a human civilization have the means to fight against the potential threat of the Cylons that might cross their ways? And Adama has to be just guessing to assume that Earth will be capable of helping them in their fight on the technological level.

Of course the matter of whether Earth is something that can help them or not is a question Adama asks Iblis (got to bring this back to the episode at hand!) during their first meeting which he avoids answering, and curiously Adama never presses him on it again. This is another part of the episode that could use a tweak, in which Adama presses Iblis to answer the question whether Earth can help them fight against the Cylons and Iblis tells him that in order to learn the answer, they must put their trust in him.

Senmut
January 5th, 2006, 11:42 AM
Leaving technology details with Terra would have made sense, IMNSHO.

ImperiousLeader
March 11th, 2006, 10:16 PM
I would liked to have seen a flashback where Iblis takes over and possesses the Imperious Leader and causes the downfall of the organic Cylons.
Thus beginning the Thousand Yahren War.

Damocles
March 19th, 2006, 08:50 PM
WOTG, quick suggestions.

Deception is Iblis' strength. Have him deceive the Cylons with a projected lie so they of their own volition chase off on the wrong vector.

Lucifer or some Cylon IL should be immune to the deception, so he continues a cautious pursuit.

The pursuing basestar is out of contact with the Cylon fleet. It is alone.

Adama notices this subsequently after WOTG and turns to fight.

Have Adama play a cautious cat-and-mouse game with Iblis. Use this interaction to educate Apollo to Iblis true purpose?

Sheba is susceptible because she lost her father?

SoL and BoL provide passive assistance. The Galacticans must face down Iblis using their own goodness.

Earth should remain unanswered.

As always; :salute:

Eric Paddon
March 19th, 2006, 09:02 PM
The pursuing basestar is out of contact with the Cylon fleet. It is alone.

Adama notices this subsequently after WOTG and turns to fight.


Interesting thought but wouldn't that kind of negate one of the chief strengths of HOG later on, which is all about Adama being "tired of running" because he *hasn't* done any turning and fighting since the Destruction?

Sheba is susceptible because she lost her father?

Agree with that completely, and I think it's the key to understanding Sheba's behavior in the episode to begin with. Too many people who are quick to condemn Sheba on this point (often with the wrong idea that it somehow shows TOS not depicting women in a strong way) I don't think take into account that what's really happening is some intelligent building off of a previous episode, which was rather novel for sci-fi TV at the time.

Damocles
March 19th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Interesting thought but wouldn't that kind of negate one of the chief strengths of HOG later on, which is all about Adama being "tired of running" because he *hasn't* done any turning and fighting since the Destruction?

Tough writing, agreed; but I sort of like Adama being smart enough to pick his spot when he sees the opportunity.


Agree with that completely, and I think it's the key to understanding Sheba's behavior in the episode to begin with. Too many people who are quick to condemn Sheba on this point (often with the wrong idea that it somehow shows TOS not depicting women in a strong way) I don't think take into account that what's really happening is some intelligent building off of a previous episode, which was rather novel for sci-fi TV at the time.

Glad to see that I wasn't way off base in connecting LL with WotG that way.

As always; :salute:

Eric Paddon
June 15th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Glad to see that I wasn't way off base in connecting LL with WotG that way.

As always; :salute:

A belated return :salute: on this!

Another scene in WOTG fleshing out this point, and also tying in to the idea that it was jealousy, not special insight into Iblis that made Apollo so distrustful of him from the start.

KJ
July 10th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Here is ye old revealation scene about Count lblis from Maximum Press' Battlestar Galactica's War Of Eden storyline.

http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copyofwoep7small9nv.jpg

Great thing about this episode was the multi-levels of mythlogy, drama and action in these classic two parter tles from the original series that speaks volumes of Galactica's potential.





Questions asked in this magnificent episode and were never solved!

1) Count Iblis minions inside the crashed ship. Who and what exactly were they? Possible victims who befell The Count as Adama described or willing followers?

2) Why did the SOL abduct Colonial Warriors if they are the good guys somewhat? Why didn't they confront Iblis on the Galactica free will and all? Would they have 'destroyed' the Galactica as they destroyed the "vast alien ship" on the red planet where Iblis was discovered, had mankind been foolish enough to join Count Iblis after the third wish turned sour and he had dominion over them finally.

3) What was the possible third request by The Council of 12 to test Count Iblis' powers of deliverance with.

4) According to Iblis somewhat subtle tale to Baltar in his jail cell. The original Reptillian Cylons fell before the onset of the great war between them and the human. But why does the Count sound like the Cylon's Imperious Leader, or more to the point why does Imperious Leader sound like him? What exactly did Iblis do to the Reptillian Cylons before they fell from grace and were wiped out by their own machines. Offer them wild promises of power did he?!

Perhaps they too failed after giving The Count 3 tests of his power!

5) Adama studied E.S.P. and other mental aptitude tests at the Colonial Academy in his youth. What else isn't he telling us about himself?

6) Iblis was at Kobal and knew of its civilization before its fall and the Exodus of the original 12 Tribes of Mankind from there. Or so he says? And does he really know where the 13th Tribe went afterwards himself. How much does he really know of Kobal's civilization or does even he as a higher being 'brag' about things he barely knows?

(Remember he claims to have infinite knowledge of the universe but is apparently 'Very'? fearful of Adama's question about God?)

7) Why didn't the Colonials keep track of the White Lights using the Recon Viper Probe? Surely that Viper moving twice or three times faster might be able to keep up a strong pace and maintain track of intruders near a fleet of vulnerable civilian ships in space? Inbetween "The Long Patrol" episode and "War Of The Gods" isn't it possible they found a way to adapt the new engines of the Recon Viper to that of armed Vipers to defend the fleet?

8) Why didn't Lucifier attack the fleet after Baltar left or come up with a another plan in mind? Did he learn his lesson from 'Lost Planet Of The Gods' too well? Perhaps Baltar re-programmed him not to do so again, considering th first time nearly cost him his life on Kobal.

9) Before The Ship Lights struck Iblis' ship, where exactly was he going. Did he engage his people first or was he already on the run from them? (See first question*)

10) Although the SOL didn't mentally tell Apollo, Starbuck and Sheba everything they knew besides the co-ordinates for Earth and its star system. What else could they have imparted sub-conciously on the Colonial Warriors?

What if slowly after time the three of them found themselves doing and saying things they didn't even know of first hand? After you've probably been touched by a higher power, who's to say you'd ever be the same again!


Plenty of food for thought years later eh?

KJ

Eric Paddon
September 26th, 2006, 02:10 PM
"[1) Count Iblis minions inside the crashed ship. Who and what exactly were they? Possible victims who befell The Count as Adama described or willing followers?"

Both. Followers who became victims IMO.

"2) Why did the SOL abduct Colonial Warriors if they are the good guys somewhat?"

Odd to say the least. I could only posit they did so to remove them from the battle zone if you will between them and Iblis's followers for their own safety. Not a strong explanation but the best I could think of.

"3) What was the possible third request by The Council of 12 to test Count Iblis' powers of deliverance with. "

I think given their general nature, they were still extremely indecisive amongst themselves on it. :)

"4) According to Iblis somewhat subtle tale to Baltar in his jail cell. The original Reptillian Cylons fell before the onset of the great war between them and the human. But why does the Count sound like the Cylon's Imperious Leader, or more to the point why does Imperious Leader sound like him? What exactly did Iblis do to the Reptillian Cylons before they fell from grace and were wiped out by their own machines. Offer them wild promises of power did he?!"

I posit that Iblis appeared as a living Cylon and developed the technological breakthrough that led to the development of the Cylon robot which then destroyed the Reptilian Cylons and that a recording of Iblis's voice was used as the essential blueprint for all future Imperious Leader's as a sign of respect since Iblis would in effect be the god-creator if you will in Cylon robot history.

"7) Why didn't the Colonials keep track of the White Lights using the Recon Viper Probe?"

Because in light of Adama's realization of just how lax security is on the Recon Viper as a result of TLP, where CORA allowed a total stranger to take control of the viper, he's still got the program on hold.

"8) Why didn't Lucifier attack the fleet after Baltar left or come up with a another plan in mind?"

The greatest weakness of WOTG and the very reason why I rewrote the middle section to have Iblis *fully* complete the first task by having Lucifer's task force hurled across the stars all the way back to the Cylon home planet just as they're planning to mount an attack. This element would also help us explain how the Cylons lost track of the Fleet after the events of WOTG and explained why the Cylons were scattered about to look for them as we realized in HOG.

Dawg
September 26th, 2006, 03:16 PM
Excellent points, Eric. However, I do have an alternative to this one:

"4) According to Iblis somewhat subtle tale to Baltar in his jail cell. The original Reptillian Cylons fell before the onset of the great war between them and the human. But why does the Count sound like the Cylon's Imperious Leader, or more to the point why does Imperious Leader sound like him? What exactly did Iblis do to the Reptillian Cylons before they fell from grace and were wiped out by their own machines. Offer them wild promises of power did he?!"

I posit that Iblis appeared as a living Cylon and developed the technological breakthrough that led to the development of the Cylon robot which then destroyed the Reptilian Cylons and that a recording of Iblis's voice was used as the essential blueprint for all future Imperious Leader's as a sign of respect since Iblis would in effect be the god-creator if you will in Cylon robot history.

That might be overcomplicating the "devil's role" of Iblis. I submit that Iblis appeared to the Cylons and offered them the same thing he offered the humans - success and victory under his 'leadership'. It was then under his direction that the robotic Cylons were perfected and eliminated their organic makers. The voice of the Imperious Leader was then handed down, generation to generation, from the first Imperious Leader of the mechanical Cylons - Iblis.

My thought, anyway. ;)

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

Eric Paddon
September 26th, 2006, 05:45 PM
I think we're not that far apart, Dawg since I think probably only my comment about today's Cylons seeing Iblis as a "god-creator" would perhaps be too much if they literally thought of him that way in the present world of TOS. I'd be content to have the Cylons of today remembering who Iblis was (I don't see him appearing to the reptilian Cylons in human form) as the one who helped make the robots possible and that his voice was used as a sign of tribute that may have even been forgotten over the course of a thousand yahrens and then I think your take and mine would pretty much synch up.

Thanks for sharing! :)

Senmut
September 30th, 2006, 07:24 PM
I wish these topics had been explored more deeply. Baltar gives us a hint, but it was never developed.

WAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pegasus4
October 1st, 2006, 03:11 AM
Good point about Iblis and the Cylons. He isn't allowed to directly interfere in mortal affairs without their permission.

I'm sure there's a lot more about Adama that we don't know about. Senmut for example has an interesting story about Adama's past in the Virtual Second Season episode Bones. However I don't think he was a youth when he practiced ESP at the institute but rather a young man. He does say he was already married to Apollo's mother but it was before their children were born.

Iblis is 'old' enough to know about the rise and fall of Kobol and the 13th tribe's voyage to Earth. His knowledge or the universe isn't infinite (he is a liar) but it is greater. And boy was he full of contempt when talking to Adama about God.

KJ
October 21st, 2006, 06:34 AM
This is my favorite episode besides the pilot which explored Galactica potential more than any other episode to date.

The mysterious Count Iblis, The Ship Of Lights, certain revealations revealed, ESP touched upon, the game of Triad, the crashed ship on the red planet etc... All things that added to a very dramatic episode to the extreme. A majority of great elements to further in a continuation series would've no doubt been drawn from War Of The Gods. First time the story was far more engrossing than the dogfight battles in space, even as a kid i recognised this fact so very much.

These threads are for discussing how we'd remake the episodes but i see WOTG's only brings out good debates and more questions. We seem to only want to make several additions and not remake the episode at all, which is good "don't fix what ain't broke" i what we're doing.

Think you need another thread now Eric Paddon, labled...

What sequel episodes to the classic Battlestar Galactica first season to you envision?

And make a list of the episodes most likely to have had sequel episodes had the show gone on. Then all these discussions morhping into ideas for what might have happened or should have happened? would be pushed further and expanded on, in threads designed for the follow ups.

KJ

Eric Paddon
October 21st, 2006, 11:26 AM
Sequel episodes have long been a good fanfic staple. Anything that involves Iblis or Cain in the future automatically qualifies as a sequel to LL and WOTG respectively. Other times we see characters from past episodes like Croft or Robber return in new roles in their lives in the Fleet. As far as a true sequel in terms of building directly off the events of an episode other than LL or WOTG the only time I did that in any way shape or form was "The Lost Warrior" where I had a team from the Pegasus encounter that planet Apollo had been on, and where Vella, Puppis etc. had to get the blunt truth delivered to them that Apollo would never be coming back (I also for fun had Vella's late husband be a Pegasus warrior who had been the best friend of the Pegasus' executive officer Colonel Tolen).

KJ
October 21st, 2006, 12:40 PM
Yeah i read that one and told ya so remember?

One of weird things of Galactica was that they never took on more humans that they came across. especially considering the fact the Cylon Empire recently conquered them and destroyed their colonies. One day the Cylons are bound to takeover the planet where Apollo met Vella and Puppis. How was Apollo ever going to meet them again if he's on a quest to find Earth which could be many lights years away?

Thats why many episodes of Galactica beg to be continued in one form or another.

Thing is, will fan stories ever get to be published big time! Thats the problem, reading fantastic stories better than whats on television at the moment knowing in your heart of hearts it ain't ever going to be reaching alot of folks outside of fandom.

And god knows when it comes to reading fanfics, i've barely touched the surface myself?

KJ

Eric Paddon
October 21st, 2006, 01:04 PM
I think on the matter of not taking on other humans, it's ultimately more a case of Adama recognizing that the humans who have established themselves in their out of the way outposts have a right to control their own destinies, especially if there isn't a danger of immediate Cylon extermination so long as the Fleet gets out of the region fast enough so that the Cylons would never have reason to scout that area. And that given how "Free will" is such a valued concept as the SOL beings indicated in WOTG, I think Adama's sense of values would be that only those who *want* to join the Fleet should come along.

That Lost Warrior sequel was so long ago, I'd forgotten, but thank you again for reading it! :) In fact, writing that story way back when is one reason why I've put off doing my adaptation of the original story (one of three I've still yet to do).

Truthfully, I wish that the guidelines for publishing Galactica stories were as easy as it's been for Star Trek TOS over the years. We've seen so many stories, none of which have to conform to a solitary universe of action over the years, and Galactica would lend itself perfectly to that as well (as opposed to Star Wars where everything that gets published has t conform to a single universe) since the beauty of how "Hand Of God" ends is that it's on an open note of upbeat optimism where there are all kinds of directions to go in. Alas, the hang-up would appear to be Universal which came up with strict standards just to let Hatch publish his novels that it would be even more difficult to get the rights to do so today, and even then they would probably not loosen the floodgages to let different authors write their own interpretations of the future.

Galactica has been blest to have the richest level of creative output I've ever seen for any show on the net, and it is indeed unfortunate that we're hindered from increasing awareness of it. Alas, some of that also has to do with the fact that "fanfic" too often receives a negative stigma because there is a bad element of it in so many quarters devoted to the tasteless "slash" genre that ultimately makes many people in general think of fanfic as the outlet for deranged people rather than the kind of amateur creative output where one can find better results than in many "professional" areas just like one can sometimes hear a more gifted musician in their local church than at Carnegie Hall.

KJ
November 2nd, 2006, 09:17 AM
Truthfully, I wish that the guidelines for publishing Galactica stories were as easy as it's been for Star Trek TOS over the years. We've seen so many stories, none of which have to conform to a solitary universe of action over the years, and Galactica would lend itself perfectly to that as well (as opposed to Star Wars where everything that gets published has t conform to a single universe) since the beauty of how "Hand Of God" ends is that it's on an open note of upbeat optimism where there are all kinds of directions to go in. Alas, the hang-up would appear to be Universal which came up with strict standards just to let Hatch publish his novels that it would be even more difficult to get the rights to do so today, and even then they would probably not loosen the floodgages to let different authors write their own interpretations of the future.

Galactica has been blest to have the richest level of creative output I've ever seen for any show on the net, and it is indeed unfortunate that we're hindered from increasing awareness of it. Alas, some of that also has to do with the fact that "fanfic" too often receives a negative stigma because there is a bad element of it in so many quarters devoted to the tasteless "slash" genre that ultimately makes many people in general think of fanfic as the outlet for deranged people rather than the kind of amateur creative output where one can find better results than in many "professional" areas just like one can sometimes hear a more gifted musician in their local church than at Carnegie Hall.


It's B.S. that Universal would even treat their own creation like that!

And even more weird to try and comprehend them for NOT taking advantage of Battlestar Galactica for the past 25 plus years before the new remake series came about. Yeah i do indeed see that Star Trek has more free reign to create stories whereas Star Wars became more restricted overtime (especially when the prequels came into existance?)

But at least they're both considered the biggest science fiction franchises out there and both Paramount and 20th Century Fox took full advantage of what they own in their studios. Same can be said for MGM which own the James Bond 007 and Stargate licenses two of their biggest franchises which also churn out very sellable novels if i'm not mistaken. Stargate even has blatant novel series that follows the continuity of both the TV series and the original movie. And me being a fan of the movie version, i know which ones i have to find? I kinda wish as a B5 fan that Warner Brothers could have done far more to sell Babylon 5 to the public when it was there on TV and cable/satellite when Warners had the chance. But Babylon 5 is big enough and has certainly carved out a nice history of its own to also produce a slew of novels in shops which are there today in many specialist book shops!

And as of today you'll probably have Firefly/Serenity and Star Trek Enterprise putting out novels for sci-fi buffs to lap up. which is all good.

But Battlestar Galactica sure is a wasted opportunity for Universal. And i'm sure even the dumbest executive studio bigwigs in Uni's boardrooms know of that fact by now. They can lie their heads off all they want till they're blue in the face, but surely after the recent DVD sales of the classic series. They must be thinking what they were originally sitting on was a "Goldmine!" that needed to be revived with at least a series of novels if not a new ongoing original TV series.

Fanfics or stories commissioned by Universal and done by professional writers is the route if any future revival doesn't actually happen though.

And yes, i'd hope that such classic Battlestar Galactica tales like War Of The Gods does get that sequel story. It needs to be told, and if a revival of Galactica happened on the big screen, then i'd like to see WOTG be done as the sequel movie a la "Wrath Of Khan" style. Taking an episode(s) from the original TV series and making a multi-million dollar blockbuster out of it!

And as we all know. Movies get expanded novel adaptations. And they lead to others being made down the line.

KJ

Eric Paddon
November 2nd, 2006, 09:34 AM
It's a good suggestion, and if the standards were made loose enough for maximum participation, I'm sure it would get an enthusiastic reception. The sticky point might be that the Powers That Be who would conceivably grant permission for new novels would try to offer a "business" explanation that having multiple universes of stories would confuse the uninitiated too much, but frankly I don't see how that's ever hurt any of the Trek novels. When you buy the Trek novel on how Khan rose to power in the 1990s, are you instinctively going to be dissuaded from buying another Trek novel where that course of events didn't happen in that other author's universe? Wouldn't stop me!

Universal's treatment of Galactica can best be summarized, "Never has so little been done for something that deserved so much!"

KJ
November 3rd, 2006, 08:46 AM
Agreed!

The needs to be stated and outlined in "bold" though.

Like this...

Universal's treatment of Galactica can best be summarized, "Never has so little been done for something that deserved so much!"

KJ

Senmut
December 13th, 2006, 01:02 AM
Hey, LKJ, ever mosied on over and taken a peek at the VS2?

KJ
December 14th, 2006, 06:55 AM
Eh? If you care to elaborate on what VS2 means then i'd know?


KJ

Senmut
December 15th, 2006, 08:57 PM
Virtual Season 2.

To be found at http://www.galacticafanfic.com/stories/season2.html

KJ
December 16th, 2006, 08:13 AM
Oh yeah, Paddon showed me that stuff a while back. Believe there was one script that was supposed to be a sequel to War Of The Gods i took a look at "The Derelict" as well as "Two For Twilly" etc.

KJ

KJ
September 22nd, 2008, 10:00 AM
Truthfully, I wish that the guidelines for publishing Galactica stories were as easy as it's been for Star Trek TOS over the years. We've seen so many stories, none of which have to conform to a solitary universe of action over the years, and Galactica would lend itself perfectly to that as well (as opposed to Star Wars where everything that gets published has t conform to a single universe) since the beauty of how "Hand Of God" ends is that it's on an open note of upbeat optimism where there are all kinds of directions to go in. Alas, the hang-up would appear to be Universal which came up with strict standards just to let Hatch publish his novels that it would be even more difficult to get the rights to do so today, and even then they would probably not loosen the floodgages to let different authors write their own interpretations of the future.


Thats the real pity of it all.

So much could've been put into novel format for BG to further its fictional universe akin to both Star Trek and Star Wars and every other sci-fi property that continues its stories far beyond a TV series or big budget theatrical movie. I also think its a huge pity, that the several unfilmed Battlestar Galactica scripts weren't made into novels following on from the published Berkerly BSG books.

We're missing out aren't we?

KJ

Senmut
October 8th, 2008, 11:33 PM
Missing out, big time.
Since YOU have a good take on what BSG was, is, and ought to be, ever think of trying your hand at adding to the VS?

KJ
October 10th, 2008, 07:51 AM
I did a What if' "Season By Season" outline years ago on Skiffy. Thats thats only thing, i'd ever want to truly update now for everybody to read up on. It might be good for for Virtual season guide, or possibly given to Tom DeSanto for his BG movie ideas etc.

Let ya know real soon when i get my internet connection restored Senmut. Right now, i'm on a touch-&-go basis, which is kinda of a bummer. Hopefully i'll be back soon full time.

Laters.

KJ

Athene
November 10th, 2008, 09:50 AM
I was watching The War of the Gods the other night. I really like this episode.
I think it would be neat to bring back Count Iblis and this time Adama could have beaten the frack out of him. ;)

Athene
November 10th, 2008, 09:52 AM
I did a What if' "Season By Season" outline years ago on Skiffy. Thats thats only thing, i'd ever why to truly update now for everybody. it might be good for for Virtual season guide, or possibly given to Tom DeSanto for his BG movie ideas etc.

Let ya know real soon when i get my internet connection restored Senmut. Right now, i'm on a touch-&-go basis, which is kinda of a bummer. Hopefully i'll be back soon full time.

Laters.

KJ

Hope you internet connection has gotten fixed. :salute:
I know what it's like when the connection is down. One time my connection was down for a couple of days! :blink:

Senmut
February 21st, 2009, 08:54 PM
I would like to know more about the precepts that guide the SOL Beings, and why some "interference" is allowed, and other is not.
A complex code, no doubt.

Captain Chirri
May 16th, 2009, 02:00 PM
A while back, I ran across a fanfic on some site or other, where the plotline was a cross between BG and V: the TV series.

The upshot was, the Visitors were the last descendants of the original Cylon race. Their ancestors, after being mostly massacred by their robotic creations, made the same kind of exodus that the humans of the Twelve Colonies did, and hotfooted it across the galaxies until they reached the planet Sirius.

Unfortunately, I didn't read the fic in depth, so I can't remember more than that.

I know that the A-Team showed up, and had Face and Starbuck in the same room at some point. (I gotta find it again and read the whole thing!)

That gave me the seed of an idea for a fic of my own concerning the Cylons/Sirians, but I have to find my notes before I start blabbing about it here.

As to the episode, there were a few glaring plot holes that were never closed up, but overall I thought it was enjoyable.

The one thing that bugged me was the fact that we never saw the inside of the spaceship that Iblis was on, nor did we get a look at the crew.

Also, the age difference between him and Sheba was a bit much for me to take in.

It would have made more sense for a somewhat younger, and better looking actor, playing the vulnerability card to cozy up to her, and make her fall for him.

Not that Patrick MacNee is bad looking; but he didn't have that kind of 'oomph' and animal magnetism that a younger man would have had in the role.


As to who that could have been? I have no clue. I don't remember a lot of actors from the late Seventies very well.

Maybe someone here can come up with something.

KJ
May 18th, 2009, 09:42 AM
I know, in comparison to Space 1999's first season BG and alot of Amercian sci-fi shows, lack any real graphic scenes of horror whereas Space 1999 looking back now made some pretty brave choices in its storytelling when revelations came pouring in far as the dangers of being out there in space with all its unknown elements flying about the place.

The Wrecked ship of Iblis as always meant to have a shocking revelation (dead demons) but the Execs and ABC chickened out at the last minute.

I'd kill for Universal to do to BG what Paramount done for the original Star Trek series and give us a Remastered series of classic BG and finally give us SE of the Galactica episodes the series would grow and benefit from. WOTG would only be truly seen it was always meant to be, from a major SFX spruce up and if all that deleted footage of the 'cloven hooves' exist today, then we'd get a director's cut of this classic episode then.

Far as what could've been...

I consider Adam Stacey's BG fanfic second season stories to be what Larson and co might've done with a sequel to War Of The Gods.

Giving Iblis' minions an actual name ("Satyr League") and their conflict with the Colonials and Cylons is something i imagined a 2nd season of BG might've gone in.

KJ

Captain Chirri
May 18th, 2009, 02:37 PM
I'd like to see that too, but unfortunately, the PowersThatBe probably don't see any money in it, so they ain't gonna do it.

KJ
May 21st, 2009, 09:52 AM
Then its left to the fans to envision that through "KILLER" fanedits!!!

I would like to know more about the precepts that guide the SOL Beings, and why some "interference" is allowed, and other is not. A complex code, no doubt.

Like most powerful beings in science fiction, there are certain rules and most higher beings follow these in sci-fi, thus the drama comes from stopping certain renagades from causing major amounts of chaos. Although over the past 10 years or so they gone from; 'Good' Vs 'Evil' to 'Not-So-Good' Higher Beings, to outright evil tyrants etc.

The lines are blured nower days! In order to find a new twist in storytelling potential.

KJ

AJMarks
May 21st, 2009, 12:30 PM
After some thinking I'd like to see Ilbis have some depth. It's the one thing that bothered me a lot about these episodes. I'd like to know what his goal is, and that can be gained by expanding who the beings of light are and their relationship with Ilbis. Are they the same race, difference races or is one the creation of the other?

I'd also remove the scene where Balter says he knows that voice, I never like it. I always thought Larson put that in because Baltar knows evil, is evil he recoginized evil in Ilbis.

Captain Chirri
May 21st, 2009, 02:09 PM
I always thought that they were guardian angels of some kind. They couldn't interfere directly, because they can't stop the exercise of Free Will and all that. Not even Iblis'. By the same token, he can't stop them from keeping an eye on him or at least trying to.

I remember reading Richard Hatch's book, and the back story for Iblis portrays him as someone like the Biblical Cain, who was jealous of his younger brother, and became a very hateful being, even towards his own family.

He went to the Cylon homeworld, and through genetic engineering and cybernetics, created the first mechanical Cylons.

When he died, he simply became worst, as his evil traits were magnified.

His son eventtually went on to found the House of Baltar, and his brother founded the House of Adama.

So, it's a family thing for Iblis.

By destroying, or corrupting his brother's descendants, he can finally feel superior to him and rub his nose in it.

All of his childish insecurities were also magnified, because let's face it; he's been throwing a temper tantrum for 1000 yahrens, and making everyone else miserable.

KJ
May 24th, 2009, 09:11 AM
So much could've been done with BSG, that its a crying shame to this day considering how many shows copy and ape the same kinda 'mish-mash' of mythology mixed in with science fiction!

So much of the interesting elements of Galactica weren't even touched upon!

- What was in the wrecked ship? (*Revelation cut* and scene deleted by censors!)

- Who exactly were onboard (Iblis' people or innocents human/aliens he came across that he intended to trick and enslave, as Adama finally and subtly referenced somewhat?)

- How big was the crashed ship and what did it ever look like? Was it a warship, civilian transport, cruiser etc?

- Was Count Iblis' comments about there being far more dangerous and powerful enemies than the Cylons and their allies combined. Was he actually refering to his possible; brothers and sisters out in the universe from the lightship/BOL, who also turned renegade?!

Akin to Satan, who was thrown out of heaven with one third (3rd) of the angels who turned against god in the Old Testament! (Larson's a mormon and was trying to tie mythology and biblical events into his stories on BSG. Was he really trying to set up other confrontations much later on, with more of Iblis' kind/race?)

- The Lords Of Kobol (who were they exactly if BSG as a series, "pooled in" all kinds of motifs and references to ancient Earth cultures etc) 'Sagan', and the 'Ninth Lord' (LPOTG)

Iblis knows of them?

- The Reptillian Cylons and their fate 1.000 years/Yarens earlier. Its known that Count Iblis was involved, but that the origin Cylons were an aggressive race bent on conquering all other races and that there own greed led to their destruction.

- What is John's major role as one of the BOL?

- The fate of the 'Battlestar Pegasus'!

- Lunar 7 and rest of the 'Western Nationists' from planet Terra! And who exactly is this famed 'Charlie Watts'.

- Did Colonel Croft, the sole survivor of the Arcta mission (with possible exception to Wolfe) do in the Rag Tag fleet afterwards?!

- Earth transmissions in HOG. Would there have been much more as the series continued.

- Wolfe's fate after he ran away into the snow capped blizzard on Arcta. Did he reach one of the Cylon fighters/Transports and escape? If so what became of him since he didn't die onscreen.

And a host of other questions we all keep asking as fans of the series!


KJ

Captain Chirri
May 24th, 2009, 09:19 AM
Never mind copy; some shows outright rip it off!

There were a lot of unanswered questions with this series, due to the fact that it ran for only one year.

I figure that John was one of the BOL, who took on human form so that communication between him, Apollo and later Starbuck would be easier. Let's face it, you're more comfortable dealing with someone who at least appears to be human, instead of an incorporeal angel. They kinda tend to freak people out.

They could have done so much more with it, but because of budget constraints, along with the chicken-poop execs at the studio, they were stuck.

But, there is hope.

That is what fanfic is all about, especially with series that were cut off before they reached their prime.

I've read some of the stuff that's in the library, and am very impressed by it.

I love the crossovers, and am working on one myself.

I need a beta reader though, someone who is more familiar with BG than I am. That person also has to be a fan of Harry Potter, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and at least have a working knowledge of the characters, if not the situations.

Captain Chirri
September 26th, 2009, 03:04 PM
There's a few things about the episode that bug me, now that I think on it.

For one, choosing Patrick Macnee for the part.

To whit: They should have used someone younger and better looking for the part. I could definitely see a young George Clooney in the role. A real smooth-talking, nummy looking guy with big brown eyes, thick dark hair, and a little boy smile that makes a woman's furnace go WHOOMP!

Don't get me wrong, Patrick is a good actor, but what in the seven Hells did Sheba SEE in him?

Me, I look at him back then, and think the same thing that I do now about him; Meh!

Lara
October 6th, 2009, 11:09 PM
There's a few things about the episode that bug me, now that I think on it.

For one, choosing Patrick Macnee for the part.

Don't get me wrong, Patrick is a good actor, but what in the seven Hells did Sheba SEE in him?

Me, I look at him back then, and think the same thing that I do now about him; Meh!

I think she fell for the powerful father figure. Having lost Cain she was vulnerable to needing a replacement. Iblis was charming and non threatening in that he wasn't chasing skirt!
Also Iblis was an 'alternative' to Adama or the council. He would have been easier to dismiss if he had been a direct challenge to Starbuck (or Apollo)

On a more practical side, TV at the time was transitioning, and the inclusion of important guest actors of note was still part of the production techniques. TOS had far more of its fair share of 'notable' actors than its critics give it credit for. Only now is it cool to cast unknowns, then it was staple to have household names as 'guest stars'

Cheers,
Lara

Athene
October 7th, 2009, 08:08 AM
I think she fell for the powerful father figure. Having lost Cain she was vulnerable to needing a replacement. Iblis was charming and non threatening in that he wasn't chasing skirt!
Also Iblis was an 'alternative' to Adama or the council. He would have been easier to dismiss if he had been a direct challenge to Starbuck (or Apollo)

On a more practical side, TV at the time was transitioning, and the inclusion of important guest actors of note was still part of the production techniques. TOS had far more of its fair share of 'notable' actors than its critics give it credit for. Only now is it cool to cast unknowns, then it was staple to have household names as 'guest stars'

Cheers,
Lara
I agree. I also very much liked his voice. It drew you in. An older man can indeed be very, very charming. :)

hmm.. a challenge to Apollo or Starbuck? now's there's an interesting thought..;)

LZaza
October 7th, 2009, 03:39 PM
I think she fell for the powerful father figure. Having lost Cain she was vulnerable to needing a replacement. Iblis was charming and non threatening in that he wasn't chasing skirt!
Also Iblis was an 'alternative' to Adama or the council. He would have been easier to dismiss if he had been a direct challenge to Starbuck (or Apollo)

On a more practical side, TV at the time was transitioning, and the inclusion of important guest actors of note was still part of the production techniques. TOS had far more of its fair share of 'notable' actors than its critics give it credit for. Only now is it cool to cast unknowns, then it was staple to have household names as 'guest stars'

Cheers,
Lara

The ironic thing about how Iblis "wasn't chasing skirt" was that Starbuck and even Apollo certainly thought that he was. And even Sheba was using her liaison with Iblis to make Apollo jealous. So while Iblis obviously wasn't interested in Sheba sexually, the other characters thought he was. A younger actor--someone mentioned George Clooney-- wouldn't have been able to pull that portrayal off as effectively.

Senmut
July 15th, 2011, 09:55 PM
Agreed. Iblis sized Sheba up quickly, and recognized all her vulnerabilities.
But then he's had millenia to hone his technique.