02: Lost Planet Of The Gods

[Eric Paddon]

This thread will be for discussion on changes etc. on adapting "Lost Planet Of The Gods" and conforming the story to a continuous season arc storyline.

[Senmut]

More should have been addressed regarding the void that surrounds Kobol. Is it natural? If not, who put it there, and why? Does it in some way relate to the planet's condition? And, just for my own curiousity, when we see the pyramids in twilight, is this due to the star fading again, or the planet's rotation?
More time should have been devoted to Apollo and Serina's relationship. I mean, did they or didn't they?????? :D

[Eric Paddon]

I actually say they did, but as far back as Saga, during their time together on Carillon.

As for what constitutes the properties of the void, that's one detail I prefer to see left in the realm of the mysterious.

[Eric Paddon]

Unlike Saga, which is the kind of episode that I think need not have its essential structure changed and requires more depth adding, LPOTG (IMO) is the first one that requires something a bit more substantive from the standpoint of a partial redo. And the biggest change stems from two points relative to part 1.

The depiction of women as potential new viper pilots has been one of the tougher things about the original to defend, because it does seem inconceivable that after a thousand yahrens of fighting the idea hasn't been attempted before. Likewise, it seems very farfetched to accept the idea that Apollo and Starbuck are the only two viper pilots not stricken by the illness. The amount of men we see in the club for his party do not seem like the kind of large number we saw filling the stars at the climax of Saga.

So how to change this? I decided first that the illness would in fact render stricken only Blue Squadron pilots, who would be gathered for a party for Apollo. By contrast, the Red Squadron pilots, who in Saga I establish as being comprised of the orphan pilots from the destroyed Battlestar Columbia, were keeping their distance given the kind of natural segregation that would exist between pilots who served on two different battlestars. So ultimately, instead of an unrealistic crisis that reduces the fighter strength of the Galactica to a mere two pilots, a more realistic crisis of half the pilots being disabled and leaving the Fleet with an unacceptable safety margin to effectively defend themselves is then created.

Building up this squadron dichotomy also let me expand an obscure character from GOIPZ into semi-significant importance. The viper pilot who escorts the shuttle and is then killed by the pulsar is named Killian. I got to thinking that he had to be a very experienced senior pilot if he was assigned to that mission, so from that thread I made him retroactively in Saga, the lead Columbia pilot who survives who ends up becoming head of the new Red Squadron. This allowed me to give him and Apollo some scenes about how to address the problem of training new pilot recruits and how they can overcome their own barriers in terms of the rivalry between Galactica and non-Galactica pilots. Ultimately, the strength in doing this will help me in time when I get around to doing GOIPZ because then when Killian gets killed, it will be with the impact of a series regular with front of the episode credit getting suddenly killed off, rather than a faceless figure from obscurity.

In terms of fixing what I felt was a slightly sexist aspect to the recruitment of female pilots, I tried to just make it clear that all were qualified shuttle pilots who got to an advanced level of training fast based on their own natural aptitude skills. Throwing a couple male recruits into the mix at random also was part of it, though the focus remains on those we met like Dietra, Brie etc. One scene that had to go was Serina's unprofessional, "I love you" to Apollo during the training session. That just went totally against the grain of the serious situation they were all dealing with.

Other major point I expanded on was the matter of Baltar's offer to Adama about striking back against the Cylons. To me, this was a genuine offer born by Baltar's desire to get back at the Cylons for double-crossing him. He still has to fudge the truth regarding his own role in the destruction, but as far as the offer itself goes, to me it makes more sense for it to have been genuine. As a result, when Adama rejects the offer because of his belief in something that Baltar considers a myth (Earth), it fuels Baltar's sense of hatred for Adama because from his standpoint, Adama has denied him his last chance to make amends with his fellow humans and forced him in the name of survival to commit himself entirely to the Cylon cause from now on.

Here is the link to the finished LPOTG. http://www.galacticafanfic.com/stories/bsg-lpotg.txt

[Senmut]

I think in part Adama's refusal to join Baltar stems from a reasonable distrust. Baltar sold them out once, who would trust him now? I certainly would not, and neither does Adama. It doesn't matter how sincere Baltar might have been, no one will believe a word he says, and he has no one to blame but himself.

[TrashTrampoline]

Agreed, you can't trust a word that Baltar says. Thats why he was able to deceive the colonies in the first place, he could lie to you and you bought it, because he had an answer for everything right up to the first shot fired at the Armastice. He said it was a welcoming commity and they all(except Adama) bought it. Thats what made him a great villian and John C.'s performance in the roll made it even more convincing. Hell I would have believed him!

[Eric Paddon]

But in this context, plotting out Baltar's character development over the course of the season requires asking whether in Baltar's own mind, the offer was genuine or not, and I think on that basis I would say yes, though it's not for reasons of remorse but for looking out for himself at this point. At this stage he has to be more angry with the Cylons for doublecrossing him, and his first instinct would be to try and do something aimed at getting back at them first.

But the events of LPOTG sees everything Baltar had planned on go completely wrong, and this has to fuel him with an extra level of hatred aimed at Adama, Apollo and Starbuck. Just why for instance in "Baltar's Escape" would Baltar say, "Too bad it's not Apollo and Starbuck, I can settle all my debts." Exactly why would Baltar be more fixated with them? The answer is, the events of LPOTG. Starbuck was part of the key to his whole plan when he took him prisoner and released him, and Apollo he could hate for not having spoken up in favor of Baltar's offer more forcefully (remember, Apollo at first hesitated, saying, "What if he can prove what he says?").

None of this means Apollo and Adama should be faulted for rejecting the offer, it just means that if we're to understand Baltar's actions and motives better over the course of the series episodes, this point about the offer being genuine (in his mind) I think needs to be clearly established.

[BST]

I'm a little confused about something.

In the airing of the show, Adama remarks that their ancestors traversed the void and were "guided" by the star which appeared at the end of the void, leading them to safety after leaving their dying planet. However, when the Colonials traversed the void and saw the "star", it guided them to Kobol (the dying planet).

Am I just hopelessly confused or did anyone else pick up on this?

BST

[Eric Paddon]

Pete, that's a good point you raise and when I did my adaptation I also felt the need to deal with that inconsistency. Here's what I came up with, in a scene I created of Adama explaining to Apollo and Serina before they go down to Kobol.


"I think I'm a little confused, Father," Apollo said apologetically. "If a single star led them out of the void, then how can it be in such close proximity to the mother planet now? And how come we didn't see it when we first entered the void?"
"For a simple reason, Apollo," Adama said. "We didn't enter the void from the same position the Kobollians left it. By our calculations, it took us one full day in the void before we saw the star. But the trajectory taken on Delta eight heading, starting from here," Adama pointed to the chart showing the star at the center, "Will have us out of the void in two centars flight time."
"You're sure of that?" Serina inquired.
"I've already had scanning and an advance probe during the night confirm it. Once we attend to our business here on Kobol, leaving the void will be a simple matter of going out the way the Kobollians left it, and not going back out the way we came in. And the star will still be in full view by the time we leave it.

[BST]

Hmm, interesting "twist", Eric. The Kobollians left by another vector. The one remaining point of confusion is that Kobol was said to be in orbit of that star, right?

I don't remember the exact quote from Adama but, he ordered the bridge crew to "scan for a planet..... distant from the star".

Now, if Kobol was in a binary or trinary system, that could explain a lot. ;)

[BST]

One other question - if the Galactica and the RTF leave by the same path as the Kobollians, wouldn't that put them on a heading toward the Colonies?

[Eric Paddon]

Only to a limited degree. Once they get out of the void they are back in what would still be at this early stage of their journey, charted space to them, since next week in "Lost Warrior" Adama specifically refers to the Hatari System being where Apollo is lost so they would exit to a point where if they went in another direction they'd be headed back to the Colonies but now they're proceeding forward.

I think in my case I had the planet Kobol itself somewhat distant from the star. I know I didn't use the term "trinary "but if that's the best way to clear that up, then I endorse it! :)

[BST]

I think in my case I had the planet Kobol itself somewhat distant from the star. I know I didn't use the term "trinary "but if that's the best way to clear that up, then I endorse it!

No, no, no....don't misunderstand my comment. What I meant was IF Kobol was in a binary or trinary system, the star at the end of the void could have been a different star than the one Kobol orbitted.

BST ;)

[Eric Paddon]

I'm rapidly revealing how scientific jargon is not my strong point! :) Actually I think we are on the same wavelength, because I never saw the star that guided the Kobollians as the one that the planet orbited.

[BST]

Ah, ok. *whew :D

[Senmut]

Given the time that has elapsed since the refugees fled Kobol, both the system and the void may have altered position. All stars do over time, and Kobol's sun would be no exception. Also, how did the void come to envelope the system in the first place, and did it affect the planet's environment at all? With the sun being dark so much of the time, it's no wonder life seemingly stopped there.

[BST]

Given the time that has elapsed since the refugees fled Kobol, both the system and the void may have altered position. All stars do over time, and Kobol's sun would be no exception. Also, how did the void come to envelope the system in the first place, and did it affect the planet's environment at all? With the sun being dark so much of the time, it's no wonder life seemingly stopped there.

The movement would probably be negliegible, Sen. The rotational alterations you mentioned usually occur over millions of years primarily due to increases in the mass of the star, as it goes through its life-cycle. As I recall, the migration was only several millenia prior to the present-day TOS universe.

I lean toward two possibilities -

1) a multiple star system; OR
2) we found a blooper.

:D

[Eric Paddon]

I always find myself in the realm of not wanting to come up with a total explanation for a phenomenon like the void. It keeps an aura of mystery to the whole thing, especially if you almost want to leave room to wonder if a "zone of darkness" leading to destruction could as easily have been a form of Divine punishment like one of the Old Testament plagues on Egypt. If so, you don't try to explain something like that in the pure "natural" terms.

Keeping a good mystery for things like that is also the kind of thing that helps make Season 1 episodes of "Space 1999" superior to Season 2 since they didn't attempt explanations like that for many of the strange things they encountered in Season 1.

[Senmut]

No, no, no....don't misunderstand my comment. What I meant was IF Kobol was in a binary or trinary system, the star at the end of the void could have been a different star than the one Kobol orbitted.

BST ;)


My guess was that the star was merely the first to be seen as they reached the end of the void on the journey to the Colonial worlds. Maybe it was the suns the Colonies orbit?

[BST]

test

[Eric Paddon]

To Senmut, I would say not likely considering that if it were the star that the Colonies orbit that would be a fixed point in space known to them from the outset of their journey before they enter the void and one would have to assume a much shorter proximity between Kobol and the Colonies that I don't think existed.

[SpyOne]

This is a place I advocate some big changes, but perhaps not the kind you'd think. ;)

First, this needs to be pushed back further in the season. Guessing based on what data I have, this episode aired when it did only because of when Jane Seymour was availiable for filming.
It is pretty clear from production numbers and such that Gun on Ice Planet Zero was supposed to happen between SoaSW and LPotG. Also, that these three scripts were done before the change in format from a series of TV movies to a regular 1-hour series was made, so a few of the early 1-hour scripts may be best placed before LPotG, either before or after GoIPZ.

For instance, The Long Patrol, with it's lost Colonial Prison, should be before LPotG.

Some of Adama's dialogue in one of the several versions of LPothG makes it clear that the Colonists destroyed their technology after leaving Kobol, and rebuilt the ability for spacetravel, etc over millenia. So, any Colonial Outpost should be closer to the Colonies that Kobol, which they did not know the location of (only vague directions).

Now, to reply to your points:
I agree that it makes a more modern and plausable rewrite that the disease doesn't get everybody, just a lot of them, and that the shuttle pilots should include some males. They can still be mostly female, since .... well, most nations do try to stick women with non-combat jobs, and for very practical reasons. 1 man and 50 women can make the same number of babies as 50 men and 50 women, so your population will grow/recover based on the number of surviving women. This creates an urge to put the women somewhere safe.
But that's a tale for another day.

But in this context, plotting out Baltar's character development over the course of the season requires asking whether in Baltar's own mind, the offer was genuine or not, and I think on that basis I would say yes, though it's not for reasons of remorse but for looking out for himself at this point. At this stage he has to be more angry with the Cylons for doublecrossing him, and his first instinct would be to try and do something aimed at getting back at them first.
And I have to say "no", for much the same reason.
Baltar does not believe the Galactica can possably destroy the cylons, and is not interesed in suicidal vengeance.
However, if he can get the Galactica to attack Cylon forces, this will prove that they rebuffed the offer of peace he was supposed to be taking to them. This will make him useful to the Cylons in the capacity of Human Hunter, giving him a comfortable life.
With Baltar, it's all about "Is this good for me?"

I'm a little confused about something.
I first noticed that when I was eight, and it does deserve fixing.

However,
"I've already had scanning and an advance probe during the night confirm it. Once we attend to our business here on Kobol, leaving the void will be a simple matter of going out the way the Kobollians left it, and not going back out the way we came in. And the star will still be in full view by the time we leave it.
If their goal is to find Earth, it makes absolutely no sense for the Galactica to plan to retrace the path from Kobol to the Colonies.

I agree entirely with the notion that they did not enter the Void where the original Colonists left it, but .....

It appears that the Colonies were in fact in a Star Cluster, a group of solar systems very close together (close enough, often, that planet's orbits would intersect), and that near the center of this was the Nova they passed through going to Carrilon.
That Nova would be a very bright star, I think.
So, have Adama point out that a direct line from Kobol to the Nova would pass through a thinner part of the Void, or better still, that the Nova would have been brighter six thousand Yahren ago, and they would have been able to see it much farther into the Void.

[Eric Paddon]

The big problem ultimately with trying to place TLP before LPOTG though is that it would require a rewrite of a still living Serina, and also explaining the nature of Apollo's relationship to Boxey at this point since LPOTG would be robbed of a good deal if Apollo and Serina married earlier than that story.

[Senmut]

Agreed. TLP obviously belongs directly after LPOTG. As to the other worlds the Fleet finds, we can put that down to having to zig-zag and detour a great deal, all to evade Cylon patrols. Once they get the course to Earth from the SOL beings, it's all a fairly straight course from then on.

[n-121973]

Taking this idea of when LPOTG is set, the original 'official' adaptations had GOIPZ come before LPOTG. They ignored Serina for some unfathomable reason and in the adaptation of SOASW establsihed that Boxey wasn't Serina's son. Just a kid whose parents presumably died in the attack and she took charge of him. When Serina and Apollo began courting Boxey was essentially adopted by the two of them which explained Boxey's presence aboard the shuttle and his referring to Apollo as Dad.
My take is that the episodes happened in the order they were made/broadcast (though I've no explanation for how the void and Kobol wasn't encountered by explorers and settlers from the Colonies prior to LPOTG is beyond me), but that the interval between SOASW and LPOTG is larger than most episodes, say a month or two instead of a couple of weeks. Long enough for Apollo and Serina to have a decent courtship length wise and possibly for some of the groundwork and organising necessary for the journey to have been completed, maybe even for the worst of the Post traumatic Stress that must have set in following the holocaust to begin to die down (though never go completely away of course).
I think there's a great deal of scope for stories set between the SOASW part 3 and LPOTG part 1.
As for Baltar, well I too think his offer to Adama was sincere. Possibly motivated by revenge for his being doublecrossed. As for why a consumate coward like him might risk such a thing the answer is that if he succeeds people might be so overwhelemed by finally defeating the Cylons, they'll be in Baltar's debt. And he would collect on it. If they fail and Baltar dies, well Baltar probably knew from the moment he was spared that once the Fleet was destroyed, he'd probably be joining them so he took a risk.

[SpyOne]

Taking this idea of when LPOTG is set, the original 'official' adaptations had GOIPZ come before LPOTG. They ignored Serina for some unfathomable reason and in the adaptation of SOASW establsihed that Boxey wasn't Serina's son.
AFAIK the reason for this is they were based on an early script.
Early versions of the script had many characters with different names (Skyler for Apollo), the Serena character on the Council of Twelve, Boxey an unrelated orphan to be taken in by Athena, etc. Changes were being made to the script right up to filming, and in fact some major plot elements were changed in the editing room. The most famous is Baltar's fate, as a version shown in theaters in Canada and Europe before the ABC TV airing showed Baltar's execution. Less famous is that Serena was terminally ill and dies before the end of Saga of a Star World. This was filmed, but edited out of both the theatrical and TV versions.

[Eric Paddon]

It's because these "official" novelizations retained these early draft ideas not just in a particular episode, but throughout the course of the entire novelization series that I could never latch on to them. There was always something missing I felt by changing the dynamics of things from the way I saw them unfold on TV, so that's why I came up with the idea of doing these kinds of adaptations that don't change the basic essence of what we saw unfold on screen. To me, Boxey would have been a much more annoying character if he'd been an orphan rather than Serina's real son.

[repcisg]

The novelizations were to hit the book shelves right after the network debut of the show in order to cash in on the show popularity. Richard Colla, the show’s first director played fast and loss with the story and got canned for it. But the damage was done.

I have go go along with Eric, the film versions are cannon for me, while the books fill in where there is no conflict.

[mocha2112]

... To me, Boxey would have been a much more annoying character if he'd been an orphan rather than Serina's real son.

You mean like the "re-imaged" Boxey on TNS? Oh, geeze, did I say that out loud? :D Sorry.... I'll go to my room now....

[Eric Paddon]

If Colla was the one who made the change on Boxey-Serina, they shouldn't have canned him for that! :)

[repcisg]

IMO, Colla's version is vastly supirior to Glan's.

[Eric Paddon]

If I remember right though, it was Larson's call on keeping Baltar alive, since he directed the scene of Baltar being spared.

But this does show how just like the best of what we associate with Star Trek didn't come from Roddenberry but from the other people on the show during its first couple seasons (Coon, Fontana etc.) the same thing was true of the others who worked with Larson on the series to help bring the series into a form that was ultimately more satisfying than if the original vision had been followed to the letter.

[repcisg]

Baltar was brought back (resurrected) for the series. The Pilot was re-cut to show him surviving.

[Eric Paddon]

Yes, I was just referring to how while Colla might have changed some of those things, the other big change we usually associate is Baltar being spared ultimately, and that would have been Larson's call.

[Senmut]

And it was a brilliant one. It just wouldn't have worked right without Baltar alive and chasing them.

[waerloga]

DELETED BY MOD

[Athene]

This is also one of my favourite episodes. I would have liked to have seen Athena fly more vipers.

[Lara]

This is also one of my favourite episodes. I would have liked to have seen Athena fly more vipers.

Me too.. I always found Athena's fading out to be exceedingly frustrating.

While the female characters were several degrees better written than most on TV at the time (every time I catch eps of other late 70/ early 80 US TV for comparison I cringe..) they started out well then lapsed!

Happened to Athena, Cassie and to Sheba as well. Serina as a character had other probs to do with the death by cancer vs death by cylon rewrite

Cheers,
Lara

[Eric Paddon]

I will agree that Sheba wasn't used to her full potential after LL, but how would you say Cassie lapsed in the same way as Athena and Sheba? It always seemed to me that Cassie benefited the most in terms of screen time, and greater depth just by virtue of the fact that her relationship with Starbuck became more full to the point where Starbuck had evolved from space Cassiopeia to something close to monogamy.

[Lord Kingjason]

Can't believe Larson was going to write Sheba out in his proposed Season2 opener 'The Return Of The Pegasus'.

But that always comes into doubt strongly, simply because Sheba was written into a lighthearted story meant for season 1; 'Two For Twilly' but it was pushed back for season 2, which never came to be. Sheba can't go off dying cos 'Two For Twilly was to be shot for season 2 at some time later on in 1979 had a second season been greenlit by the studio and networks. That outline still comes under fire for that well known fact as of today even?

Its a pity things weren't worked out, cos the ladies of Galactica all had something to add to the BG universe alright despite the series' cast rather large size at times.

Characters like Dietra and Rigel for example; would've been given some more prominate scenes in the series in several of the unshot scripts like 'Showdown' for instance. As would've been the case with Athena, who was a more fleshed out 'Colonial Warrior' that was written into some of the unshot stories of Battlestar Galactica, as somebody on the frontlines like her brother and not a bridge "Uhura" wannabe!

Originally it would've been Athena not Apollo who was closer to her father Commander Adama and took care of him when he was in doubt about his ability to command the fleet and been his "beast-of-burden", as it were? That kind of dyfunctionality i would've liked to have seen within the series makeup of the characters after the Colonial holocaust of "Saga". And slowly seen the changes where it was switched later on and Apollo developed stronger ties to his father.

But that was changed when the producers put Maren Jensen's Athena on the supporting characters bit-part and later on; backburner, when her acting came into question. And Cassiopea was made into a bigger female lead part along with Anne Lockhart's Sheba.

KJ

[Athene]

Me too.. I always found Athena's fading out to be exceedingly frustrating.

While the female characters were several degrees better written than most on TV at the time (every time I catch eps of other late 70/ early 80 US TV for comparison I cringe..) they started out well then lapsed!

Happened to Athena, Cassie and to Sheba as well. Serina as a character had other probs to do with the death by cancer vs death by cylon rewrite

Cheers,
Lara


They should have used Athena more. I agree. Maren Jensen was not a bad actress. I did not like how they changed Cassiopeia's character. They could have showed us why she changed her career to a medtech and still have kept the show family oriented. Sheba became weaker as the series progressed. I'm not sure but I think Jane Seymour was dismayed at how her character was written and asked to be written out. I'm not 100% sure about that.

[Athene]

Can't believe Larson was going to write Sheba out in his proposed Season2 opener 'The Return Of The Pegasus'.

But that always comes into doubt strongly, simply because Sheba was written into a lighthearted story meant for season 1; 'Two For Twilly' but it was pushed back for season 2, which never came to be. Sheba can't go off dying cos 'Two For Twilly was to be shot for season 2 at some time later on in 1979 had a second season been greenlit by the studio and networks. That outline still comes under fire for that well known fact as of today even?

Its a pity things weren't worked out, cos the ladies of Galactica all had something to add to the BG universe alright despite the series' cast rather large size at times.

Characters like Dietra and Rigel for example; would've been given some more prominate scenes in the series in several of the unshot scripts like 'Showdown' for instance. As would've been the case with Athena, who was a more fleshed out 'Colonial Warrior' that was written into some of the unshot stories of Battlestar Galactica, as somebody on the frontlines like her brother and not a bridge "Uhura" wannabe!

Originally it would've been Athena not Apollo who was closer to her father Commander Adama and took care of him when he was in doubt about his ability to command the fleet and been his "beast-of-burden", as it were? That kind of dyfunctionality i would've liked to have seen within the series makeup of the characters after the Colonial holocaust of "Saga". And slowly seen the changes where it was switched later on and Apollo developed stronger ties to his father.

But that was changed when the producers put Maren Jensen's Athena on the supporting characters bit-part and later on; backburner, when her acting came into question. And Cassiopea was made into a bigger female lead part along with Anne Lockhart's Sheba.

KJ

Maren Jensen's acting was not bad at all. I've seen her in other movies and TV series. She was quite good. She did very well in "Saga of a Starworld." Also, her performance in "The Long Patrol" was delightful. I feel that the producers made a big mistake in doing that(putting her character on back burner). I never really liked the Cassiopeia character. I did like Sheba. Why on earth would Larson want to have written the character out? Rigel was really underused. All the main actresses of the series were good.

[Athene]

I will agree that Sheba wasn't used to her full potential after LL, but how would you say Cassie lapsed in the same way as Athena and Sheba? It always seemed to me that Cassie benefited the most in terms of screen time, and greater depth just by virtue of the fact that her relationship with Starbuck became more full to the point where Starbuck had evolved from space Cassiopeia to something close to monogamy.


I think you meant Space Casanova not Space Cassiopeia with respect to Starubuck. :LOL:
Cassie lapsed since we weren't given a clear transition from her socialator character to medtech. She wasn't as strong as she was in the very beginning. Look how she reacted when Starbuck found out Aurora was still alive. In the earlier episodes her character would not have reacted that way. I watched "Saga of a Starworld" *the movie version* and Cassiopeia was a much stronger character then. I've seen a very good story written at this site. Where we see how Cassiopeia's change from socialator to medtech takes place.
http://www.galacticafanfic.com/bsg-page.html

[Lara]

I'm not sure but I think Jane Seymour was dismayed at how her character was written and asked to be written out. I'm not 100% sure about that.

One of the interviews with Jane Seymour revealed Serina was originally supposed to die at the end of Saga from space cancer caused by poisoned food/radiation from the attacks, and all her scenes were played that way. Test audience/ network censors didn't like it that way, so it was recut as if nothing was wrong. However, her death scene in Planet of the Gods reads true this way, and not for being hit by stray Cylon fire.
I remember her quoted as saying the recut was a big surprise to her, as was being asked to come back for the additional ep (LPotG) but had already committed to Dr Quinn Medicine Woman after that, so couldn't have continued.

A pity, because I liked the chemistry between Hatch and Seymour on screen. I never found Boxey showing up in the care of Athena, Cassie and Adama to be entirely believable and I think it would have made for better storylines with his mother still being around. There would have still been plenty of scope for Apollo to be discovering the responsilities of instant parenthood WITH his wife.
The dynamic between Apollo and Sheba could have remained one of rivalry between two competent and proud warriors, and not drifted into 'romance'

Cheers,
Lara

[Lara]

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
I will agree that Sheba wasn't used to her full potential after LL, but how would you say Cassie lapsed in the same way as Athena and Sheba? It always seemed to me that Cassie benefited the most in terms of screen time, and greater depth just by virtue of the fact that her relationship with Starbuck became more full to the point where Starbuck had evolved from space Cassiopeia to something close to monogamy.
I think you meant Space Casanova not Space Cassiopeia with respect to Starubuck. :LOL:
Cassie lapsed since we weren't given a clear transition from her socialator character to medtech. She wasn't as strong as she was in the very beginning. Look how she reacted when Starbuck found out Aurora was still alive. In the earlier episodes her character would not have reacted that way. I watched "Saga of a Starworld" *the movie version* and Cassiopeia was a much stronger character then. I've seen a very good story written at this site. Where we see how Cassiopeia's change from socialator to medtech takes place.
http://www.galacticafanfic.com/bsg-page.html


Sorry I was late back to the boards, and thanks to Athene and KJ for picking up my point..

Cassie got the better deal, as far as screen time, but too often she was playing nurse helper and not independent woman. There were tantalizing flashs of it, but she should have retained her worldly -wise, independent streak more clearly.

Athena got washed out and written out in short order, and Sheba was introduced as tough, proud warrior with the promise that she could fly rings around blue squadron, and then became a love sick puppy trotting after Apollo in too quick time

None of these women needed to be written as bitches, but the a decision need to be taken if the storylines were going to run : 'independent woman making it in a mans' world', or Trek-esque "we're all equal now"
The whole training the female shuttle pilots scenario was pure 70s sexist condescension and still makes be cringe when I see it. It doesn't hit either of the above, and slides straight into male fantasy over reality.
Dietra and Bree were sketchy and Rigel was shot as a one trick pony, but with clear potential: perhaps season two would have helped!

However, considering US TV standard characterizations of the time, it was a 'good effort' based on 'good intentions' that just had lapses, most likely due to scripting time constraints and inconsistent story development. Eric's retellings show only too well what a considered revision can do with the base material, and the fact we are willing to debate it means there were always legs on the concept (if you will excuse the pun)!

Cheers,
Lara

[Lord Kingjason]

We should be glad TV's evolved then. True some if not alot of the good old fashioned values our generation grew up with, have been pushed aside somewhat, but TV certainly wasn't being fair nor equal to women at the time of the late 70's early 80's. These days you've got alot of TV shows where women beat up on the men and they're more tomboy-ish. Thats a bad cliche also, but women roles on television have certainly grown from the amy types seen on the A-Team.

i.e. give the guys their guns, stand well back (out of frame of the camera too) while they shoot up the place and get the bad guys, etc!

Today, many shows are build around women as the lead protagonist of their own series. Not many of them are that good though, but at least the ones that are, happen to be the great TV series we can easily see is well developed and that the writing is very strong throughout allowing the characters to grow!

KJ

[Eric Paddon]

"and then became a love sick puppy trotting after Apollo in too quick time"

I can't concurr on this. To me, the writers grossly underutilized the romance potential with Apollo-Sheba, by not even breaking the ice until HOG after setting up an undercurrent in LL and to a lesser extent WOTG. After WOTG, Sheba just stagnated as a character with nothing important written for her other than the token appearance in an episode until they finally got things back on track in HOG and set up a very important dynamic that makes HOG and the what-if future for Galactica so special.

[Athene]

"and then became a love sick puppy trotting after Apollo in too quick time"

I can't concurr on this. To me, the writers grossly underutilized the romance potential with Apollo-Sheba, by not even breaking the ice until HOG after setting up an undercurrent in LL and to a lesser extent WOTG. After WOTG, Sheba just stagnated as a character with nothing important written for her other than the token appearance in an episode until they finally got things back on track in HOG and set up a very important dynamic that makes HOG and the what-if future for Galactica so special.

I also agree that the writers underutilized the romance of Apollo/Sheba. Sheba had so much more potential, as did the character of Athena, in my honest opinion. Athena's character was very good in Lost Planet of the Gods. HOG was a great episode. I was very sad when the series ended but also glad to see it ended with such a great episode.

[Lord Kingjason]

One can only have many theories to this day how Athena might have played a part in the series let alone HOG had the writers gotten their stuff together. But it was a rushed series to begin with thats become one of thee most remembered sci-fi properties in pop culture.

Maren Jensen's acting was not bad at all. I've seen her in other movies and TV series. She was quite good. She did very well in "Saga of a Starworld." Also, her performance in "The Long Patrol" was delightful. I feel that the producers made a big mistake in doing that(putting her character on back burner). I never really liked the Cassiopeia character. I did like Sheba. Why on earth would Larson want to have written the character out? Rigel was really underused. All the main actresses of the series were good.

Agreed! Although she wasn't the most animated in the drama department, i can't really see Maren Jensen's acting to be any worse off than alot of females leads or supporting actresses during the late 70's. Farrah Fawcett being one of the stars of Charlie's Angel at the time was at least honest and really knew it was her sex appeal that sold her and not her acting ability! Maren Jensen might have been Galactica's 'Farrah Fawcett' "poster child" if she was given the chance early on, who knows?

I also agree with you on the thoughts about Rigel. There's a character who like Omega should have been featured more heavily if not credited in the main opening credits. For a character who wasn't even named onscreen out loud but got quite bit of fair dialogue during the episodes, she certainly got the shaft somewhat. Funny how i mention her and Omega together, as they would've had a scene together in the unshot BG script; 'Showdown'! Too bad the episode wasn't shot cos it sounded like something that would have given them an added boost and onscreen presence for once other than just passing on news and technical data on the bridge all the time, cos the scene didn't take place on the bridge but in the Warrior Barracks supposedly, in trying to stop renagade Landing Bay workers from causing sabotage or be it disobeying orders.

Details of the Showdown script are up on battlestarzone on Susan Paxton's website. And Sheba's Galaxy.

Sheba should've been used more by Larson and co, considering the trouble he put into creating the character and hiring Anne Lockhart. I don't believe he would have killed her off in season 2 opening, seeing as the script for 'Two For Twilly' was going to be held back for season 2. But that she definitely needed to be played of other characters like Apollo and possibly Bo-Jay if Glen Larson brought him back as Jack Stauffer said Larson planned to down the road etc.

Thing is though, considering how Larson was doing second season's of his shows. A second season would have seen too many changes that fans would not have liked at all. BucK Rogers 2nd season along with everything afterwards relating to his shows suffered or was heavily retooled in their second years. Look what happened in Knight Rider when the character of 'April' was brought in over Bonnie? she wasn't liked at all, so Bonnie had to be brought back and the character was never heard from again?

Much as we would've prayed for a improvement and fleshed out characters and storyarcs for the 2nd year of Battlestar Galactica. Be glad season 2 didn't actually happen in a way. Cos i think alot of the classic season 1 characters were going to be slashed anyhow. Maybe even Cassie and Starbuck would suffered later on as well too.

Larson's only good second season is the Six Million Dollar Man simply cos of the Bionic Woman 2 parter. The rest is history after that! If a Larson show gets past the 2nd season it develops onwards fair enough, but usually it pretty rough looking back and seeing what mistakes were made. Buck Rogers season 2, need i say anymore?!

KJ

[Lara]

"and then became a love sick puppy trotting after Apollo in too quick time"

I can't concurr on this. To me, the writers grossly underutilized the romance potential with Apollo-Sheba, by not even breaking the ice until HOG after setting up an undercurrent in LL and to a lesser extent WOTG. After WOTG, Sheba just stagnated as a character with nothing important written for her other than the token appearance in an episode until they finally got things back on track in HOG and set up a very important dynamic that makes HOG and the what-if future for Galactica so special.

I'm glad you don't concur.. I always like tossing ideas around, it clarifies them wonderfully :-)

I don't know that I would have welcomed Apollo falling for Sheba straight away, when he was still fresh off a marriage to Serina and had taken that union seriously enough to assume responsibility for her son.
I know we don't have a accurate sense of the time span of S1, but an new romance in that time would seem shallow in a character who was supposed NOT to be the love em and leave em type.

Having said that, perhaps I am wishing for a maturity of script writing that was neither intended or desirable for the nature of the show.

Its that very inconsistency and often shallow treatment that was infuriating: set it up, hint at it, do nothing with it for several eps, then have an idea fast tracked without warning. There was no sequence to Sheba falling for Apollo, altho a million pages of fanfic has been written about it, the set up in HoG was 'special' becos it was a cliff hanger. As we have surmised from available info, S2 didn't promise anymore consistency in character development. KJ made some excellent comments about the Larson effect..

Cheers,
Lara

[Eric Paddon]

Look what happened in Knight Rider when the character of 'April' was brought in over Bonnie? she wasn't liked at all, so Bonnie had to be brought back and the character was never heard from again?


Hey, I'm one of those who *liked* April better! :) Rebecca Holden was a lot more talented, in addition to being more beautiful IMO and her presence helped make KR's second season the peak of the show (also being the year of Hasselhoff's hilarious double role as evil Garthe Knight, and Ann Turkel's two guest appearances as evil Adrienne Margeaux) from my standpoint. Season 3, when they brought Bonnie back only had a couple episodes I liked, while Season 4 was almost unwatchable for me.

[Lord Kingjason]

Well Garthe Knight and the truck Goliath go without saying really. But yeah much agreed with season 4!

Super Pursuit Mode = Jumped The Shark! Royally and all.

Also April didn't nearly have the same sex appeal Bonnie did to young boys who were going to school and college at the time. That car machanic can service me anytime line between teenaged kids at the time, wasn't ever thrown in April's direction. April wasn't ugly or anything, she was just a too obvious Bonnie replacement that didn't workout on the same level as Bonnie did. Bonnie was very cute but also smart, whereas April looked like a school teacher with good looks but nothing to make the boys 'leer' at her in quite the same way. April seemed like the rich girl with the 'silver spoon' in her mouth who had a good education but didn't look like an engineer at all, she looked too rich and out of place all the time. Whereas Bonnie came off as the smart girl from the neighbourhood who had humble beginnings who worked her ass off and got a scolarship to work at F.L.A.G. and work for Devon Miles etc. Maybe its cos she had 'red hair' and was a redhead, which doesn' speak of sexy TV icon, back in the day etc. She just didn't have the minor tension Michael and Bonnie had in the first season, April was too friendly to Michael right off the bat to be seen as sexy and intelligent in quite the same way.

Bonnie was smart and sexy but wasn't at all easy, but you knew Michael wanted her in a way. Michael and April were too nice for there to be any real friction or playful love/hate relationship to develop, to want viewers to see them together. And the main thing is, April really never had any episodes to develop and show off her character traits whereas Bonnie did throughout Knight Rider in seasons 1, 3 and 4

But even i thought i was unfair to fire her and bring the actress who played Bonnie back. After April left you kinda figured why can't they both be on the same show at the same time when you were younger.

*Sigh* Ah well!

One can only wonder how the remake series will do with all its hype! But without a Black 1980's Pontiac Trans Am and a cheesy tall lanky German-American actor who can't sing in there, i doubt if its going to be much fun though.

KJ

[Eric Paddon]

From a writing standpoint, I'll agree that Bonnie was better served than April was. But I think Rebecca Holden wasn't given a fair chance simply because she'd been brought in at Patricia McPherson's expense, and that there was a bit of a behind-the-scenes push to get her out and McPherson back.

I always thought if there'd been a Batman series or movie back then, Rebecca would have been ideal casting in the role of redheaded villainess, Poison Ivy.

[Athene]

One can only have many theories to this day how Athena might have played a part in the series let alone HOG had the writers gotten their stuff together. But it was a rushed series to begin with thats become one of thee most remembered sci-fi properties in pop culture.



Agreed! Although she wasn't the most animated in the drama department, i can't really see Maren Jensen's acting to be any worse off than alot of females leads or supporting actresses during the late 70's. Farrah Fawcett being one of the stars of Charlie's Angel at the time was at least honest and really knew it was her sex appeal that sold her and not her acting ability! Maren Jensen might have been Galactica's 'Farrah Fawcett' "poster child" if she was given the chance early on, who knows?

I also agree with you on the thoughts about Rigel. There's a character who like Omega should have been featured more heavily if not credited in the main opening credits. For a character who wasn't even named onscreen out loud but got quite bit of fair dialogue during the episodes, she certainly got the shaft somewhat. Funny how i mention her and Omega together, as they would've had a scene together in the unshot BG script; 'Showdown'! Too bad the episode wasn't shot cos it sounded like something that would have given them an added boost and onscreen presence for once other than just passing on news and technical data on the bridge all the time, cos the scene didn't take place on the bridge but in the Warrior Barracks supposedly, in trying to stop renagade Landing Bay workers from causing sabotage or be it disobeying orders.

Details of the Showdown script are up on battlestarzone on Susan Paxton's website. And Sheba's Galaxy.

Sheba should've been used more by Larson and co, considering the trouble he put into creating the character and hiring Anne Lockhart. I don't believe he would have killed her off in season 2 opening, seeing as the script for 'Two For Twilly' was going to be held back for season 2. But that she definitely needed to be played of other characters like Apollo and possibly Bo-Jay if Glen Larson brought him back as Jack Stauffer said Larson planned to down the road etc.

Thing is though, considering how Larson was doing second season's of his shows. A second season would have seen too many changes that fans would not have liked at all. BucK Rogers 2nd season along with everything afterwards relating to his shows suffered or was heavily retooled in their second years. Look what happened in Knight Rider when the character of 'April' was brought in over Bonnie? she wasn't liked at all, so Bonnie had to be brought back and the character was never heard from again?

Much as we would've prayed for a improvement and fleshed out characters and storyarcs for the 2nd year of Battlestar Galactica. Be glad season 2 didn't actually happen in a way. Cos i think alot of the classic season 1 characters were going to be slashed anyhow. Maybe even Cassie and Starbuck would suffered later on as well too.

Larson's only good second season is the Six Million Dollar Man simply cos of the Bionic Woman 2 parter. The rest is history after that! If a Larson show gets past the 2nd season it develops onwards fair enough, but usually it pretty rough looking back and seeing what mistakes were made. Buck Rogers season 2, need i say anymore?!

KJ

I agree with everything you've said. I can only imagine what would have happened to the series had Larson actuallly filmed some of the scripts for Season 2. And why would you cutout some of your main characters? That's what really makes the show.
I'm still glad the series ended on a high note.

[Lord Kingjason]

For a few extra million dollars spend on more episodes, i can't see why several of the deleted scripts could've have been filmed for the series rounding out the first season's episodes at 30 rather than the existing 24?!

Star Trek and the Irwin Allen shows had at least 28 to 30 episodes in their first seasons. If the networks had more guts in backing their decision to make Galactica a weekly series, they'd at least could've made some effort to putting out the majority of the unfilmed scripts done of them or retool the earlier ones for production and eventual broadcasting.

I've kinda theoried where they might have played if they were shot too...

Unfilmed scripts highlighted as follows.

1) Saga of A Starworld. 3 part pilot

2) Gun on Ice Planet Zero. 2 part episode (if it had followed the pilot episode as originally planned)

3) Lost Planet Of The Gods. 2 part episode

4) The Lost Warrior.

5) The Long Patrol.

6) The Beta Pirates. 2 part episode

7) Showdown.

8) The Magnificent Warriors.

9) The Mutiny.

10) I Have Seen Earth

11) The Young Lords.

12) The Living Legend. 2 part episode

13) Fire In Space. (Original aired version and not the earlier 2 parter scripted episode.)

14) War Of The Gods. 2 part episode

15) The Man With Nine Lives.

16) Murder On The Rising Star.

17) Greetings From Earth.

18) Baltar's Escape.

19) Experiment In Terra.

20) Two For Twilly

21) Take The Celestra.

22) Hand Of God.


Crossfire became GOIPZ, so there isn't a need to put it on the list. And i left out 'Final Flight' cos A) its another Galactica debated issue that needs clearing up as to whether or not the script existed and larson wrote it and B) yet another episode of Starbuck crash landing yet again, might have been too much for one seasons worth of episodes, unless it was retooled to feature LT Boomer for a change, who knows for sure?

But 22 stories for the first season might have been actually, possible if the show wasn't just pushed out so quickly, looking back, one can easily envision this kind of scenario happening in hindsight years later! Tis a real pity it didn't happen though.

:(

Cos reading and browsing over the unfilmed script synopsis, i've often imagined what and how they'd fit into the series run of episodes originally. And Larson would've cast big guest stars at the time to be in them, and Larson certainly knew how to cast a show with a renowned guest stars.

For example in the Beta Pirates script, he could have easily cast the late 'James Coburn' as Aleph/Xenon or Yul Brynner, somebody who was a tough guy in films who had charm and charisma. Or somebody who was a little older like Caesar Romero who Larson put in a guest role in Buck Rogers later on. Glen Larson and production crew could have also saved on some money a little and cast people who already worked on the show who did voiceovers in actual episodes.

I Have Seen Earth; for example features the character of 'Jasper' who claims to have seen earth. Now what if Larson like he had done with Patrick Macnee, cast somebody from doing the voiceover of the Cylon characters to appear as Jasper like; Jonathan Harris who was the voice of Lucifer? Heh, it definitely would touch upon his role in 'Lost In Space' and his relationship with Will Robinson that he would've had in the episode with Boxey!

Ah, there are plenty of other examples of how the unfilmed scripts might have been casted. the Character of Twilly in another unshot episode; might have been played by a popular comedian cast in the role at the time i imagine, like 'Harvey Korman' or 'Dick Van Dyke' (who's son did G80 also lets remember) for all we know? Simply cos that was to be a more lighthearted episode rather than one of the more adventurous stories. the list goes on.

Yeah, if only they were filmed. We'd have alot more classic episodes to talk about then! Beta Pirates out of the list of unfilmed stories seems to be the one that should've been shot though. As 'Space Pirates' in the Galactica universe would've been a believable threat and offered up a 'third foe' or ocassional ally inbetween both the Cylons and Colonials who's loyalties could've flirted back-and-fourth depending on the situations and predicaments between either factions, seeing as the pirates were to be made up of both humans and aliens who are loyal to nobody else but themselves. That and the episodes themselves would've introduced the "Colonial Bomber" something a Battlestar no doubt would've carried in its arsenal besides its Vipers, landrams and shuttles.


KJ

[Eric Paddon]

****Character of Twilly in another unshot episode; might have been played by a popular comedian cast in the role at the time i imagine, like 'Harvey Korman' or 'Dick Van Dyke' (who's son did G80 also lets remember) for all we know?****

The Twilly script establishes the character as a contemporary of Apollo's from the Academy so it would have had to be someone the same age.

I also read that Jack Elam, a veteran actor from westerns, was who they had in mind for "I Have Seen Earth".

[Lord Kingjason]

Don't know, for some reason Paddon, i keep seeing Harvey Korman popping up everytime i read and think about that sypnosis for 'Two For Twilly' with wives all over the fleet. Must have seen some film with him in it, that day when i got "Galactica Revisted" or when i read some pages online somewhere of the unshot scripts.

Always stuck with me for some reason. Kinda like a particular bit or bar of music tunes gets stuck in your head, whenever somebody says something familiar in regards to music, keystroke or a well known soundtrack does to you etc.

I also read that Jack Elam, a veteran actor from westerns, was who they had in mind for "I Have Seen Earth".

Yeah think it was Susan Paxton that told us that a while back, in another thread somewhere's or mentioned it on her site on BGzone. Which is funny cos as you mention that; 'Once Upon A Time In The West' was playing on Satallite on Sky movies a few hours ago, i think? And Jack Elam's in that far as one of his best roles goes, even if it is real short.

;) :D

Got bored today and flicked through the channels a while ago and there it was playing aways. *shugs shoulders*

Yeah if there's one thing no one can deny, is that Larson damn well certainly knew how to cast his TV shows with memorable guest stars! Which looking back speaks volumes about his command as an A-list classical kind of executive televison producer.

Remember when he got Frank Sinatra to guest star on Magnum P.I. Classic stuff. Fred Astaire being on Battlestar said it all too, although there Fred wanted to do it for his grandchildren though! Larson's shows stoodout all the more because of his style in doing this. Man had guild and brains and powerful stroke!

:thumbsup:

Lets see Harlan Ellison bitch about Glen Larson's ability there then eh!

KJ

[Eric Paddon]

The Twilly script itself, as Terrence McDonnell admitted at the 15 Yahren Con, was in effect a steal of the 1950s movie "Captain's Paradise" in which Alec Guinness plays a British sea captain who runs a boat between his home on Gibralter where he has a prim and proper wife his own age, and the Spanish coast where he was a wild, flamboyant younger wife, neither of whom know about the other.

I have to admit, even absent the script reference that establishes Twilly as Apollo's age, an older actor in the part would to me at least, have come off too much the dirty old man, rather than the inept rogue.

McDonnell also mentioned that Jamie Lee Curtis read for the part of one of Twilly's wives, since she was a Universal contract player at the time (having been in the TV series "Operation Petticoat" the previous season).

[Lord Kingjason]

Yeah, had Jamie Lee Curtis done Two For Twilly she would have done two seperate Larson space operas back-to-back more of less with her Buck Rogers guest spot and all.

And boy was Curtis flaming hot in her younger years (sorry ladies but i'm a red-blooded male and proud of it!) man, She was indeed beautiful in her Buck Rogers guest spot, The first 2 Halloween Films and Trading Places. So its a real pity we didn't have her in the unfilmed Battlestar Galactica episode like 'Two For Twilly' as well.

Do you know who else Larson possibly planned to have casted in the other unfilmed episodes Eric?

Knowing Larson's penchant for recasting people from his other shows. Do you think he would've put somebody like Lee Majors in Battlestar for example? I mean by the late 70's; The Six Million Dollar Man was coming to an end after 5 seasons. Who else could he have put into several of those stories he might have produced and shot.

KJ

[Lord Kingjason]

I think had the series gone on, we surely would've been introduced to many other fleet Captains and Commanders of their own ships within the fleet just like Commander Kronus of the Celestra was seen in Take The Celestra. Twilly would've been one of the Captains/Commanders that might have krept up every now and then in future episodes beyond the first season! Just goes to show the series scope and vision on paper was a hell of alot bigger than even Larson, Stevens and Bellisario ever thought up!

Yeah, i think we missed out on who Glen Larson would've cast as his guest stars in those unshot Battlestar Galactica episodes, seeing as his shows back then had great casting agents who hired well known A-List names to be in his TV shows. Lord knows who he had in mind for several of th character in some of those scripts like Aleph/Xenon, Voyar (The Beta Pirates), Marduk, Bengun (The Mutiny), Twilly (Two For Twilly) etc with the exception of Jasper (I Have Seen Earth) with whom we're told Jack Elam might have played.

Although had several more episodes been shot, i'm left thinking sooner or later just like Patrick MacNee was used for Count Iblis after doing both the episode narrations and Imperious Leader's voice, Jonathan Harris also might have been used in an actual filmed episode as well, maybe not jasper but would've played yet another role that the series writers could have easily cooked up etc!

KJ

[Eric Paddon]

I too regret the fact that Jamie Lee Curtis didn't appear on Galactica. :) When I adapted "Two For Twilly" in the ongoing "Virtual Second Season" fanfic project, I made a point of writing the character she would have played exactly as if she were doing the part.

I have no idea who else anyone was thinking of casting for unfilmed scripts beyond the rumor about Elam. I have heard that Richard Crenna was the first actor they thought of for Cain before going to Lloyd Bridges.

[Lord Kingjason]

Yeah Richard Crenna i'd also heard about being an actor they had in mind for Cain originally for the early Last Legend script before it was re-written into the final Living Legend version we're all familar with. Think Crenna up for the Cain part was also mentioned in the DVD's of Galactica as well.

Out of all the Galactica trivia released over the years, the what if's relating to the unfilmed scripts is always worth a mention. and i think if several of them had been filmed i would've liked to have seen Sire Uri's return. And the only script where he could've appeared again in, would've logically been in; The Mutiny episode where the Council of 12 ordered the Colonial Fleet to stop at planet Zarta!

Uri was said to be the perfect foil for Adama in the pilot and he should been a series regular to create drama for Adama on the Council and be his antagonist whenever he made important decision for their survival and Uri's ignorance and plays for power got in the way.

I reckon he still could if the same script were to be adapted into a giant sized comic book or novel format! One which would be more fleshed out from the original scripts.

Hmmm, somebody better have some of these questions and new ones lined up for Terence McDonnel and co at the Galacticruise convention this year methinks!

;)

KJ

[shiningstar]

Yeah Richard Crenna i'd also heard about being an actor they had in mind for Cain originally for the early Last Legend script before it was re-written into the final Living Legend version we're all familar with. Think Crenna up for the Cain part was also mentioned in the DVD's of Galactica as well.

Out of all the Galactica trivia released over the years, the what if's relating to the unfilmed scripts is always worth a mention. and i think if several of them had been filmed i would've liked to have seen Sire Uri's return. And the only script where he could've appeared again in, would've logically been in; The Mutiny episode where the Council of 12 ordered the Colonial Fleet to stop at planet Zarta!

Uri was said to be the perfect foil for Adama in the pilot and he should been a series regular to create drama for Adama on the Council and be his antagonist whenever he made important decision for their survival and Uri's ignorance and plays for power got in the way.

I reckon he still could if the same script were to be adapted into a giant sized comic book or novel format! One which would be more fleshed out from the original scripts.

Hmmm, somebody better have some of these questions and new ones lined up for Terence McDonnel and co at the Galacticruise convention this year methinks!

;)

KJ

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love the way you THINK! I so agree Sire URI should have remained as a regular! Between him and Baltar, the plot would have definately been even MORE interesting!

debra

[Eric Paddon]

The stumbling block to the idea of Uri as a recurring character though, would probably have been Ray Milland's reluctance to do a recurring role (he never did any kind of series work) and even if he'd been willing there might have been the matter of how much more of the budget would have been shot to have an actor of his stature on a recurring basis.

[shiningstar]

I remember that about him. It's a shame really, as he was such an amazing actor!

[Lord Kingjason]

Besides milland playing Uri again i think Croft would've been a neat reaccuring character as well.

Somebody who brought in to do those deathly dangerous missions like in GOIPZ. An Ex-Colonel who respects the Warriors but is still somewhat bitter by being imprisoned by his fellow Colonial Warriors. And only the Berkley novels seem to have kept Croft around later on after The Cylon Death Machine novel.

It would've been wonderful to see Croft played off of Apollo and Starbuck in other stories besides Gun. Croft could been made out to be more mysterious figure with a dark past in the fleet, even though he survived the "Battle Of Arcta", he would come across as a more reluctant hero than even Starbuck would normally be, but he has extreme methods that clash with others.

Was he pardoned by Adama after the mission in 'Gun' did Croft retire afterwards, who knows! But like Uri he too would fit into Galactica mythos had the series continued on! I hope these plot points are brought before the series writers at the 30th anniversary Con this year!

I also remember outlining a Galactica continuation story on the skiffy boards a few years ago and wondered what would happened in a 'what if'; season by season outlined storyarc, if Croft was chosen to replace Adama by the Council of 12 by the third season after finally being voted out and the fleet had a new experienced leader suddenly elected and placed there by them etc. But he wasn't the figurehead "only" leader type being used by other powers, to be manipulated by the council, and led his command style his own way.

Yup, several of the guest characters certainly had lots of potential alright!

KJ