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ojai22
March 5th, 2002, 11:43 AM
I've read all three of Richard's books and, overall, liked them very well. However, I think the Kobolian bloodline having special powers is a mistake. For this reason:

All of humanity has the same brain. Whether it's *our* humanity or theirs. Since they're supposed to be a part of us there's only one humanity. The different facets call themselves *races* but there's only one human race. The human brain is the same model for all, we just use it in different ways.

The way we think determines the way we use the brain that we call *ours.* Einstein used the brain in one direction, the person sitting on the curb with no home has used it in a totally different way. He's turned wholly into the psychological and can no longer fend for himself. But - he had to think his way there. That's the way the brain works.

It is an open universe. What is available to one is available to all. For a segment of humanity to be chosen to develop special powers that aren't available to anyone else means that somewhere there's an entity that's playing craps with the human race. The Creative Principle of this universe can't fall into such a small-minded category. It can't fall into a category at all. It's up to man, with his thinking brain, to come up with categories, special powers, etc,

I don't mean to imply that there aren't people that seem to have *special* powers. What seems special may one day be ordinary. For instance, there's a horde of psychics that are running amok, preying on people in every area of their lives. I think there are a few - very few - who can actually do what they say they can do. Though they do keep saying they have gifts from God. Well, that *would* make them unique. "God has made me special!" No way. If that's the way humanity is going, then you're just a forerunner, a pioneer. But it's available to all because we all have the human brain, within which these *talents* develop.

The Kobolian bloodline can't be any different from the rest of the bloodline. Any idea that it is, is wholly psychological - and that's the thinking process within the brain that we all share.

Eldriam
March 8th, 2002, 12:57 AM
:rolleyes:

Muffit
March 14th, 2002, 06:41 PM
I want to jump in and say, I LOVE Richard's books. After 23 years of no BSG, not even reruns on the tele, I was SO delighted when I stumbled on these BSG websites and learned of Richard's books.

I DOVE into Armageddon. It was such a delight! It reads so much like a teleplay you can almost hear the original characters speaking.

Warhawk was cool too, cuz it brought back Cain. I thought the Chitain were a cute idea, naming them after their chitinous shells (at least I think that was it).

So of course, when Resurrection came out I was already in line. And now I can't wait for the 4th! I am so thankful to Richard for diving in and spearheading this revival.

Richard, if you're out there, WE LOVE YOU!!! Can't wait to see you on the screen again!!! In the meantime, THANKS SO MUCH for the books!!! :D

:muffit:

ojai22
March 14th, 2002, 08:19 PM
I agre with you completely about Richard's books. I really enjoyed the first two. The third one was slow at first, I thought but it picked up and was okay though I think the battle at the end was too intense to go on for so long. Probably that would have changed somewhat with the planned rewrite.

I have much more to discuss with Eldriam when I'm rested. If I ever get there.

Glad to see you again.:)

Raymar3d
June 25th, 2002, 01:47 AM
Armaggeddon:

A+ for effort/story

A for Troy and Dalton, and their development.

B for Cassiopea. Yes, and no. She was the character, but not super special.

D- for accuracy/proofreading. Rigel was a woman not a man, grammatical errors, etc. (This was corrected after the first book.) Richard had Rigel and Omega confused here.

B for the Borellian Nomen. I like the characters. He did a good job with them. I have an issue with them being from Caprica, though. I always thought Borellian Nomen were from Boralis, a planet mentioned in "Saga of a Star World" as being an alternative to Carillon. However, that is conjectural, so I don't push that as criteria.

B+ for imagination.

A for Boomer. I liked his development.

A for Athena. Ditto for Athena. I can't say enough about how Richard gave her more importance from her status on the series.

C for Starbuck. NOT ENOUGH STARBUCK.

A for Tigh. President, and a wise man. Good choice.

B- for overdoing Kobolian powers, but I don't hate the concept.

D- for Sheba. She's not very well developed in this story, unfortunately, but at least she's semi-important and is there.

A- for Apollo. Not as vocal as he was on the series. But, I liked that he became commander, and he seemed more caring overall in this story.

A for the new aliens. The skye are cool. Not too often we get aliens that are truly alien. Can't get much more alien than creatures that can live in a vacuum and are living spaceships. They are cool.

C for killing Lucifer, even though he may return.

A for Baltar.

A for ignoring Galactica 1980, and concentrating on continuing the original Battlestar Galactica. Glen Larson himself said on Sci-fi Vortex that Galactica 1980 was just a bad dream.

A for Iblis. Iblis was never a cylon. He was of a race unknown to the fleet, he said. He was said to be the devil. Mephistopheles, etc. A fallen angel, or fallen being from the ship of lights is the implication.

A for mysterious introduction of reptilian cyborg cylons, and for not connecting that to Lucifer's cylons at all. Foreshadowing later story elements.

That's all for Armaggeddon. I liked this one enough to seek out Richard Hatch at Pasadena Grand Slam and see if he was interested in doing an animated series revival, and that's where I found out about the trailer and got recruited to do 3d cylons for it, among other things. I liked the power struggle in the wake of Adama's death, and that Count Iblis returned to try once again to lead them to their doom. Having him disguise himself was clearly necessary and within his abilities, as he showed he could do shape-shifting in "War of the Gods."

Overall rating: B + (87%)





Warhawk:

A for concept.

C- for execution.

A Return of Cain and Pegasus. I liked the power struggle between Cain and Apollo.

F- Sheba. Not well used at all, IMHO. Nobody seemed to care about her, either her betrothed or her father.

C Use of Cain. I felt he was not quite himself. He was too easily subordinate to Apollo on some occasions. He was a lot older, probably in his eighties, so there is some leeway here, but not a lot.

C Starbuck. Still not enough Starbuck. Better than Armaggeddon, but I miss the commeraderie between him and Apollo.

A Borellian Nomen. Still doing a good job with him.

A for aliens. The Chitain and the Skye are well done. Cylons aren't as prominent, so that is also okay to do once in awhile.

A for Iblis, still in the story behind the scenes.

B for Baltar. While I can imagine John Colicos in the part and that helps, there's not as much there as there could be.

F for the new Battlestars. NO development of them at all, and one is destroyed right off. No introduction to their C/Os, and where is Tolen? I like that Cain built more, but I want to see more of them than just ships in the background. They should be a lot bigger deal, and even have some interesting new innovations since they're new ships.

A for the new duet viper. It's cool. Also, the scarlett viper gets a mention here, since I didn't mention it before.

B- for Apollo. Unfortunately, he seems to not care about Sheba at all. I don't like that.

A for Athena. Once again, she gets the royal treatment, and gets her own battlestar to command.

That's enough of Warhawk. All in all, the story was okay to good, but the characters were lost in the shuffle to some degree, unfortunately. It's good light reading. Not as much impact as the power struggle for command in the first book, which seemed more well-plotted. I did like the elements of Posiedon that were slowly poisoning the settlers and the tie-ins to the thirteenth tribe and the search for earth. That was still there and it was good stuff.

B- Overall. (82.14%)



Resurrection:


A for Plot.

A for Athena.

B for Starbuck.

B for Apollo.

A- for Cain. He was much improved in this one. Still, where's his fatherly interest in Sheba?

F for Sheba. Still way underused and underappreciated.

B+ for Baltar. Better used this time.

A for incorporating much of the trailer into this story. I appreciated seeing the mech cylons and flying drones I created make their debut in print. So, sue me for giving him an A on this one. :)

A for Count Iblis. Revealed to be an ancient Kobolian of the same house as Baltar. If one accepts the premise Richard postulated about the ship of lights having originated at Kobol, this makes perfect sense.

A for Serina.

C for Cassiopeia. Good and bad, averages to C. Didn't care for her and Apollo getting together, even in grief over Starbuck's (death). Maybe much later, but right after his death was a little callous, IMHO.

A for resolving the Kobolian bloodline issue.

That's enough of Resurrection. I like this one the best of the three, with Armaggeddon a close second.

Overall rating: B+ (87.08%)



I don't yet have Rebellion, so I can't review it yet.


As you can see, I see a lot of flaws in the books myself, but I also see a lot of good elements. Execution could be improved immensely, and some characters definitely need their fair share of the spotlight. But, overall, the ones I've read, easily garner "B" class ratings. I like the concepts, and can fill in a lot of the gaps myself when it comes to the execution.

I recommend them for light reading, not for hero worship. Fair enough? There are some good ideas in there too.

Ken

ojai22
June 25th, 2002, 09:31 AM
Ken,

Thanks for sharing your insightful reviews. Well thought out and presented. As usual.

I always enjoy your posts - am looking forwarded to the next one.

Thanks again.......ojai22

ojai22
August 3rd, 2002, 07:29 PM
"Super Apollo"

Date: 08/03/2002
From: eldriam

neuro`s post about Apollo`s super mental powers got my attention.
Darn, I don`t have the time to elaborate on it further.

I don`t argue against some fans`s disliking of Apollo`s psychic powers as defined ( or redefined) by Richard`s interpretation.

But I`d dispute about the idea of `super powers` or `super Aryan hero`, the way some people describe Richard`s Apollo, sometimes.

Apollo`s 6th sense is not at all the same as the typical modern `super hero` myth fabricated by the collective expectations/desires/frustrations of any given social group. In actuality, those types of `super heroes` like Spider Man, Super Man, Captain America and etc are more a
collective repository for group egos, which is a facade (EGO) - the reason why they can't be portrayed by human mind without that faked overtone that starts with the excessive, artificial appeal of their own typical costumes.

That is, they`re an artificial solution for solving conflicts, ego generated. An imitation (ego is called God`s monkey - observation and simulation/copy).

Super heroes are `prothesis gods`.

(Not to mention that Richard`s Apollo doesn`t halt Cylon battlestars on their tracks. He doesn`t disintegrate enemy`s fighters and he doesn`t fly either - lol - without a ship)

RH`s version of Apollo is not a `prothesis god`. He has a deep SPIRITUAL component to him and everytime you have a creation manifesting what we call `super natural powers`, but based upon that spiritual component, you`re not talking faked ego creations anymore, you`re talking about coonsciousness evolution, that is, `cosmic consciousness`.

In actuality, he plays the role of a viable, fictional prototype for the whole of mankind`s possible future evolution.

Eldriam --

ojai22
August 3rd, 2002, 07:43 PM
I don't have a problem with Apollo having those powers. I agree with your assessment of them. What I have a problem with is having those powers linked with the Kobal line exclusively - more of the 'chosen people' way of thinking. If such a thing is believed about a certain segment of humanity, then the idea was started by that group. I don't see any other way that it can arise. However, as part of evolution such powers could develop in the consciousness of anyone, regardless of their hereditary line. Evolution is happening to humanity, not just to a handful of us, as we have a common link through consciousness.

I know this 'chosen people' kind of thinking is the way of the world, but there are those who are looking past it. Awakening, so to speak, from the burden of the past. Awakening to what Freedom actually means. Thrilling just to contemplate it!

Eldriam, I brought your post over. I knew you wouldn't mind. Thanks for your always wonderful evolving thoughts.:)

ojai22

Eldriam
August 4th, 2002, 04:41 PM
:)

ojai22
August 4th, 2002, 07:04 PM
eldriam wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Yep. Let`s not forget, though, the 100th Monkey Effect, which is when a critical mass from any given species reaches first a new stage in evolution (one could think of `pioneers`, if we`re talking human evolution of consciousness, as an example), and all the others follow suit, achieving the same mastery, without any efforts, education or intent.

The 100th Monkey Effect would be the propeller force that pushes the masses forward through that common link you mention.

Hence, a bunch of forerunners just have to start the process, so that the whole humanity may follow suit.
---------------------------------------------------------------

In the first post of this thread I called them 'pioneers' - we've reached the same conclusion. You described perfectly how it spreads through consciousness. I just have a problem with evolution happening within one 'race', thereby making them 'chosen'. From all I've read about it, it's happening to people in different races, professions, etc. That makes the human race 'chosen', if one needs a descriptive word.

We're saying much the same thing (!). You're more eloquent and elaborate in your descriptions. However, at this time in my life, I'm doing okay just posting!

Love your posts. Come back soon.:)


:love:

ojai22

Eldriam
August 4th, 2002, 08:02 PM
:)

Raymar3d
August 4th, 2002, 09:05 PM
On the Kobolian bloodline question....

I asked Richard about this. His premise was that the planet Caprica was most like the planet Kobol of all the 12 colonies, and Adama's ancestors strived to protect the ancient bloodline of power from environmental influence after leaving Kobol, because their group had perfected their skills, similar to the Vulcan Kohlinahr discipline as it relates to a higher level of mental/psionic achievement for Vulcans, and how Romulans have lost their mental/psionic abilities after leaving Vulcan and allowing them to atrophy in a new environment. The military study was to revive that ancient power, and it was difficult, because even the planet Caprica was different from Kobol's environmental makeup. Richard also explained in his book that it had to be kept secret. Apollo was the one who basically let the cat out of the bag.

The other colonists were equally decendents of Kobol, but their environments contained different elements, and over the millennia, these elements altered the chemical makeup of the brains of the inhabitants, and caused the innate kobolian abilities to become inert or dormant and to atrophy from disuse.

Only in recent times did the military's experiments bring about a re-awakening of the innate powers. Adama's family had been descended from a group that had maintained those abilities in secret or else re-discovered them because of ancient traditions kept that bloodline pure. It wasn't so much bloodline as elementally pure. Dietary consideration and environmental consideration played a part in the religious traditions of their tribe.

That was the gist of what he told me.

So, even though all the colonists are descended from Kobol, some have evolved into different directions, and some may have other advantages as yet unexplored.

His concept of the Borellian Nomen in "Armaggeddon" went into this somewhat. It is also applicable to the Kobolian bloodline/powers. It was never intended to be elitest. But, like many other things that aren't well understood, it comes off that way if that's how someone wants to read it. Starbuck also 'accellerated' in book three, showing that all this went beyond Apollo's family.

So, I hope that Richard really takes the time to address this in a future novel, but until then, maybe this post will shed some light.

Ken :)

ojai22
August 21st, 2002, 10:23 AM
I understand now where Richard was going with the 'powers' he was assigning to certain people. It sounds like he's given a lot of thought to it. It's a terrific explanation of a story that is fiction. That's where I was making a mistake, getting too involved with a story that is fiction. However, who's to say it couldn't happen exactly that way somewhere in the universe?

What I've learned about this planet, though, through a lot of study is what happens to us, now or 6 lifetimes from now, comes into being through our thinking. We're either going deeper into thought or coming out of it. The deeper we go into it, the deeper the darkness in the mind. You can see it taking place all around you.

What I find especially fascinating is the 'falling out' part. "We" don't come out into the light; 'we,' as we know ourselves cease to be; 'we, or me,' the kamakaze, the thinker itself, comes to an end. What's left is that Something which beats the heart, which gives us life, which is our Life. Of course, there's much more to be said on that subject, but this is not the place.

I tried to apply this to Richard's story of the Kobolian bloodline. It was a mistake. Richard's books are fiction! Even so, truth can be dealt with, fictionally, and you can do what you choose with truth to make an interesting story. I wish him well with his endeavors.

Thanks for helping me get back my perspective. I don't think this is of interest to many people. So I think I'll cool it now.

Happy Trails,

ojai22

dah66
September 19th, 2002, 06:52 AM
Hi,

I posted this over on the SCI FI board awhile back. It's my thoughts on the first three books (I have not read Rebellion yet):

Overall, I have enjoyed all of the books. These are my 'nit picks'

1. The first book shows that the Colonials have been wandering around looking for Earth for 20 some years (even though they were given the coordinates by the Ship of Lights during the original series). This makes the Colonials seem incompetent. I would have preferred that the story pick up on a colony that the Colonials had established far away from the Cylon Empire (or so they believe). This way, the Colonials could have reestablished their society and rebuilt some of their defenses. Also, they could be maintaining diplomatic relations with neighboring alien cultures (to form an alliance). Then, the new 'evolved Cylons' could show up and cause trouble. However, the new breed of Cylon would be more polished (no pun intended) then the old models. They would use diplomacy and politics to gain allies in their conflict against the humans. This could create more character driven drama instead of the Cylons being 'mindless killing machines'.

NOTE: I posted the 'new colony' idea before that plot element had been revealed as being a part of Tom DeSanto's production.

2. The books delved too much into the Colonial past without focusing on the Colonial future (or present).

3. I thought the pure Kobolian blood line was a mistake. I would have preferred that Apollo had developed his mind powers through the same techniques that his father had (meditation and practice). Perhaps, they could have been explained as an after effect from his numerous encounters with the Ships of Lights?

4. There was too much conflict between the humans. The violence inflicted on humans by humans was worse than anything that the Cylons were dishing out. I can get that type of conflict from watching the news. I'd like to think that the Colonials are better than us. Still, I realize that there is a need for conflict between characters to establish drama.

6. Resurrection had the following faults:

> It read like a rough draft (which I know it was). Let's hope that some day the final version gets printed in paperback.

> Dalton's character seemed to suddenly become nasty and mean-spirited. I'm thinking that Richard's co-author must hate women or he just projected the personality of his worst girlfriend into her character (this would explain her sudden change of heart at the end of the novel "I was so wrong, Oh Boxey, Boxey").

> The text implies that Kobol was destroyed by the Cylons. I never got that impression from the original series.

> Apollo and Cassie? This just doesn't seem right! Apollo should be married (sealed) to Sheba and they should have children of their own.

7. Characters that have died should stay dead. Having them on the Ship of Lights reduces the impact of any characters potential death. Meaning, how can we worry that Apollo will 'die' when it appears that pure Kobellians can't (he would just have to worry about wearing white after Labor Day).

Yikes, reading over this I'm coming across as fairly negative. I really did like the books (especially the first two). I thought the Sky were very well handled and that the dialogue consistently captured the spirit and tone of the best episodes of the original series.

Also, Richard Hatch is a wonderful guy. I had the pleasure of meeting him twice. The trailer for The Second Coming is incredible. It was well worth the 4 hour drive it took me to get to PA to see it.

Hey, here's a great idea: Richard should send advanced copies of his rough drafts to several 'super fans' prior to publishing. This way, we could help him avoid inconsistencies and provide honest feedback. I'd be the first to volunteer!

Thanks.

Dave

ojai22
March 14th, 2003, 08:15 AM
bump

kingfish
March 16th, 2003, 09:39 AM
I liked the book. Starbuck dies and is brought back to life because he does posess the Kobollian bloodline but is probably from a different house than Apollo. Cain is fantastic as usual and gives his life at the end of the book, "Take that you black devil," as he rams the Pegasus into one of the Cylon super Basestars. The biggest spelling error in the book was Bojay which was spelled Bo jay. Baltar has emerged as the best character in all four of the books. John Colicos would have been proud as well as the cast members who aren't with us anymore. I also liked the idea how Talen turns into Serina in the end and tells Apollo to move on with his life.