Is no one else bothered by this?

[AslanC]

I haven't been posting much, and I will tell you why.

Regardless of whether I support the revival or not, or whether I will watch the miniseries or not, I am offended by the amount of images I have seen here of Ron Moore being shot or otherwise mutilated.

I realize people feel passionately about this topic, but that is just unacceptable to me.

Am I alone here?

Is anyone else even remotely offended by this?

[Titon]

I have to agree with you AslanC.

And that's one of the things that needs to be addressed around here.

I'll work on getting some of this type of stuff cleaned up.

[Dawg]

Truly, Aslan, I'm not a fan of those avatars, either. I try not to spend any time looking at them, unlike some others we have here (yours, for example, is kind of cool).

Are they a call to violence against him? Of course not. 3rd Human's, for example, is a cartoon; how many times did we watch Yosemete Sam or Elmer Fudd have a cannon blow up in his face just like that? The meaning of this one is obvious - 3rd Human expects the mini to blow up in his face, as a result of our (the fans) actions. I am utterly certain that none of us wish actual physical harm to any of those people, just professional harm.

Do they push the limits of good taste? Well, by and large that's in the eye of the beholder, but I think they are on the extreme end; I certainly wouldn't use an avatar like that. I find a couple to be rather gross, frankly.

I am not going to suggest, though, that any of them change thier avatars just to please my sensibilities. They have a perfect right to express their opinions in whatever manner they feel expresses them the best way; that's Free Speech. As long as it does no harm to others, anyway.

If you feel strongly about it, Aslan, message the owners of the avatars you find offensive and ask them about it - ask them to change it to a less graphic image. Who knows; they might, if they understand how you feel about it. Message Warrior, Thomas, or one of the mods. Perhaps they may decide that standards should be set (although I wouldn't necessarily like that myself; kind of anti-free-speech rules, if you ask me).

Exercise your right of free speech, my friend.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[AslanC]

Thanks for the reply Titon, I trust you guys will be fair and just in how you address this.

For the record though I am not seeking moderation, but instead understanding as to why this is happening and why people are simply accepting it.

[AslanC]

Ah you see being a canadian living in the province of Quebec I have no promise of Free Speech ;)

Also while the handgun one you mention, perhaps if the handgun was cartoony that would work as well.

But I saw one that has a bullet hole in his forehead, and that I can't take as meaning anything more than murder.

Normally people who screw up shoot themselves in the FOOT not the forehead... but I digress.

Again I am not seeking Moderation (beyond the self moderation all civilized humans should exercise) but instead an understanding :)

Thanks for your answer, it helped illuminate things a bit more.

P.S. Thanks for the nice words on the avatar, I can't remember where I got it though :(

[RGrant]

Anyone who would use Moore in their avatar needs professional help. Anyone who would use Moore AND Hammer must be positively psycho.

Seriously, even though that bullet in the forehead avatar might be crossing the boundaries of good taste, the gun blowing up in face one is obviously comical. Like something out of a bugs bunny cartoon, as Dawg says.

I can see how you might not agree, but I would definitely not let an avatar or two effect the number of times you post.

[AslanC]

RGrant: I am not saying I don't see the point of the gunpowder face one, I just think the gun used might be better served (taste wise) if it wasn't a real gun, but a more comic book one

As for not posting, well let's just say that bloody pics and my views on BSG are not compatible.

I am not anti-Moore after reading the script. I would prefer the Desanto/Singer one (working closely with Hatch) but we aren't getting it and no amount of anything is going to change that now. These boards are pro-revival, that has been made clear to me on a number of occasions. Also while I love BSG, I am not blind to its' faults either.

So my posting is limited to say the least.

[RGrant]

Originally posted by AslanC
RGrant: I am not saying I don't see the point of the gunpowder face one, I just think the gun used might be better served (taste wise) if it wasn't a real gun, but a more comic book one

As for not posting, well let's just say that bloody pics and my views on BSG are not compatible.

I am not anti-Moore after reading the script. I would prefer the Desanto/Singer one (working closely with Hatch) but we aren't getting it and no amount of anything is going to change that now. These boards are pro-revival, that has been made clear to me on a number of occasions. Also while I love BSG, I am not blind to its' faults either.

So my posting is limited to say the least.


Fair enough. To tell you the truth, as many times as I've seen the gun avatar, I've never noticed if it's real or cartoony. Also, I don't think any of us are blind to the show's faults, and I didn't really think this thread had anything to do with all that. If you're bored with the whole Moore/DeSanto controversy, I can see how you would not want to post much on such an anti-Moore board. But if it's the avatars, I still do feel that they shouldn't keep me, or anyone else, from posting as much as they want to.

[AlternityOrange]

I love the 3rd Human's avatars. They're very well done and quite funny. In truth I don't think the gun one is his best work. I much preferred the Burger King one but, it's his avatar. If something on a board I posted on actually made me uncomfortable I think I would contact the person, as Dawg suggested, and go from there.

I don't particularly think Jaeson's is very funny but it doesn't offend me. Everybody has different levels of offense. For example, I'm offended by a scene in an upcoming mini-series of a sexbot 'cylon' graphically murdering a baby by crushing its skull. But hey, both the writer we're discussing and the SCIFI Channel think that scene makes for great TV. Yeah, we're all different.

[jjrakman]

I call it: "If They Mated" In honor of Conan O'Brien.

Never meant to offend anyone. I guess I don't think about that kind of stuff too much cause I don't get offended too easily. But I can understand how others do.

I never really meant it to be funny necessarily as much as it was more of an expression of my anger and frustration over some of the backhanded remarks RDM made towards TOS fans. Us.

But in my defense not everyone was offended by it, when I first put it up I had several requests to make one like it of the other members in the Trinity for other CF members so I figured it was o.k. Or at least acceptable. Guess not. Maybe it was a little over the line, but it's gone now.

[AslanC]

And there you have it.

I felt the sentiment of having someone killed (and I don't care how nicely or cute we want to pretend it is, the base message is there) was crossing a line. Obviously I am in the minority here.

C'est la vie.

I wish you all the best, and ask that the Moderators officially delete my account.

No hard feelings, I just don't belong here.

[jewels]

Ray I like the new avatar too.

And thanks JJ for removing that bloody one. Aslan has a very good point, Moore has shot himself in the foot (depending on Carnivale, possibly both feet). I thought the hole in the head avatar was too much, but being the resident Victorian ;) I thought it best to let my peers deal with that. Plus it looked like a deliberately bad Halloween makeup job. I just didn't like the feeling.... any more than I like kids running around Trick-or-Treating with bloody masks--(makes me wonder if they have parents). I too appreciate the removal, though this new one is equally scary in other, more humorous ways.

Aslan, I appreciate you speaking up. :)

[AslanC]

Hey Warrior, it isn't the latest avatar I have a problem with, so I thank you not to put words in my mouth.

I have a problem with one Avatar, the one that has a bleeding head wound in RDM's face.

That to me is a bit extreme.

I think the Bond one was quite well done and tasteful.

I actually like that one.

[AslanC]

What we have here is a break down of communications.

I thought you were referring to the bloody bullet wound pic, now I can see that you as a result of that thought I was referring to the James Bond spoof.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I see no reason for us to be at odds over this.

I apologize for any offense I may have caused to you, it was not done intentionally.

[Senmut]

All this makes me glad I picked Bogart!

hey, Aslan...I'm not sure I understood your free speech/Quebec comment. Could you run it by me again?







"Just shout my name. It will stop any opera diva in her tracks."-Wo Fat

[Flamingo Girl]

I hope no one is ofended by my avatar....well, except for Ojai.

Actually, I don't care for violence on the whole, but I can understand someone's anger with Moore, and would rather they take out their anger and frustration on a picture than on another person, so for that reason I wasn't bothered by it.

[jjrakman]

Aslan- You wrote:

"I am offended by the amount of images I have seen here of Ron Moore being shot or otherwise mutilated."

O.K. But then you wrote:

"I have a problem with one Avatar, the one that has a bleeding head wound in RDM's face."

So I'm not really sure where your problem lies. However, the Avatar you speak of specifically was mine, I have removed it as per your voicing your distaste of it well before you posted specifically that that was the one you disliked. I have done this of my own free will. But regardless, I too am happy you spoke up. Please read my previous post in this thread.

Jewels- Your welcome. Hope my new one don't give you nightmares. If someone had mentioned to me that they wanted it removed I would have been happy to do it. Honestly I'm surprised that there was such a controversy over it. I have no intention of offending fellow fans. But I had only received positive remarks on this board regarding my avatar until this point. A bad Halloween job? Well yeah. It was fake. Like how many endless movies filled with bloody wounds that we see. Braveheart is my favorite. I see much worse at Halloween. I didn't think it was that real enough to convince or offend anyone. Guess I was wrong. All I did was draw on it. Heck, it could've been a "paintball splatter." And you just keep being as Victorian as your heart will allow, there's too few of you out there. Wish I could meet one.

Warrior- You are a man with scruples.

Flamingo Girl- That's why I thought it really was not that offensive, it's just a jpeg. But I'm not as easlily offended as others are. I guess it's the others I should be careful of. Which I have now, I think. P.S. Why Ojai?

[AslanC]

See there is an old system of politness that says if you have a problem with a particular thing, but do not wish to insult the person with whom you have the problem. Instead of attacking them directly, you use a vague stance, allowing them to decide if they are or are not the offending party.

Now when I say offending party, I do not mean to imply that you went out of your way to be offensive.

I appreciate that you changed your picture.

Thank you.

Despite what some of you may or maynot think, this is not a "Don't be dissing Ron Moore" thread. Diss him all you want, I just hope that there is some level of wit and cleverness to it. Suggesting someone should be shot in the head is neither witty or clever, IMNSHO.

Senmut: Quebec has never signed the Canadian Charter of Freedoms and Rights, so there is no legal right to "Free Speech" in Quebec.

[AslanC]

Originally posted by jjrakman
I call it: "If They Mated" In honor of Conan O'Brien. BTW I love this image, very clever and witty ;)

[jjrakman]

Thank you. I'm glad you prefer my new one.

But again the old one was never meant to be clever or witty, it was much more of a response to some of RDM's remarks towards us. Made in the heat of anger? Perhaps. But I think too much has been made out of it already. We see far worse carnage than that in our video games, it's just the virtual world. It can't hurt you.

I appreciate you have an old fashioned way of communicating, but in the future if you have a problem could you please just say what you mean? I really hate to try and figure out what someone is trying to say between the lines, or to try to interpret subtext. That's why I don't ever want to get married. ;)

[Flamingo Girl]

Why Ojai? because she and I have had a "war" going on since I arrived.

It's a joke.

[Senmut]

To bad about the marriage thing, JJ. You are ALOT cuter than RDM!!!!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:

[jjrakman]

Thanks Senmut. I bet my new black and blonde hair is your favorite feature.

[thomas7g]

Tom's feeling as an admin....

Alot of people are frustrated and angry at Moore. But nobody here is advocating killing him. And we understand that an avatar doesn't equate with a hit contract.

We also have smilies such as :ax: :hack: which also don't equate with any real life threat of violence.

People are frustrated and treated like shit by Moore and Hammer. So let them blow off steam by a making an avatar. Freedom of expression is better than the purchase of a gun.

But if people are bothered by it, speak up and talk to Tom and the guy who has the avatar. We have good natured people (even if they are crapped on by TPTB) and most people here are rather accomodating if you just ask politley. :)

[jewels]

Originally posted by jjrakman
Flamingo Girl- ... P.S. Why Ojai?
Who is in Flamingo Girl's avatar? NO!!! not the pink one, the person!!! He's single. So are they. Next question?
hehehehee.

Sometimes you are safest if you don't HAVE a favorite. No worries to any of the other gals about here.:z: :p :D

[repcisg]

I think the bird is rather cute :D .

[Flamingo Girl]

I'd blush, but I'm aleady pink.

Thanks, repcisg.

[emerita]

To show you how sick I am, I spent yesterday on another board screaming at a guy from Finland because he kills his cat's newborn kittens vs. getting his cat spade, because it is cheaper to kill the babies. I was outraged and offended and let him know as much and I left the forum for good, because the other posters were giving him sympathy....but then I come here and I looked at the bloody avatar and even though I thought it extreme, it did not bother me as much as killing helpless animals...... :( Where oh where has my humanity gone...have I given up on it?:/:

[Dawg]

Simple, hon - you recognized the avatar as cartoon.

Too bad that guy's in Finland - but, don't they have an ASPCA that could be contacted?

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[jjrakman]

Emerita-

Your not alone. I actually have far more emotions when it concerns violence towards a dog or cat than I do vilence towards a human. When it comes to a human to say I'm apathetic is an understatement, but I absolutley detest thosw who abuse animals. Maybe it has something to do with the idea of "original sin" where every human, no matter what the age, is not innocent. But an animal, especially when it's a dog, shows you nothing but unconditional love. They don't lie to you, they steal from you, they don't do or say crappy things to you. I much prefer animals over humans any day!

[emerita]

They do but they aren't as virsitle as they are here in the States. From what I can gather, it is all privately funded. The Government is discussing what should be done because it seems that the whole country lets their cats roam unspaded or unneutered and it is quite a problem. When I told that guy that he should take responsibility for himself and that it all starts with one person, he said that why should he spend the money if no one else will bother. I knew at that point that he was not going to listen to good advice and my one question is how does this guy have the intelligence to even work a computer...... :rolleyes:

[kingfish]

Originally posted by emerita
To show you how sick I am, I spent yesterday on another board screaming at a guy from Finland because he kills his cat's newborn kittens vs. getting his cat spade, because it is cheaper to kill the babies. I was outraged and offended and let him know as much and I left the forum for good, because the other posters were giving him sympathy....but then I come here and I looked at the bloody avatar and even though I thought it extreme, it did not bother me as much as killing helpless animals...... :( Where oh where has my humanity gone...have I given up on it?:/:

That is a horror story. Truly saddening. Many places will spade an animal for a reasonable price. Where I live I often see stray cats. Some must have been pets but where disguarded when they came home pregnant. So the owners toss them aside and it doesn't solve anything.

[emerita]

I agree with you jjrakman...as much as I love the human race, we bring our disasters upon ourselves and animals don't have a choice. But this is an old arguement with me....So who do you save from drowning....the man or the dog. I have made many enemies by saying the dog and I say that for the simple reason that a man can follow instructions to help himself and an animal panics......I guess I should add this to my unspoken topics along with religion and politics.... :(

[emerita]

Yes, Paul. There are a few states here that go out and collect people's stray cats and sterilize them, give them their shots and then release the healthy ones back out. This saves space for the sick and injured and keeps them from overpopulating. It appears to be working. If there are collars and tags on them, they contact the owners. Unfortunately there are no leash laws for cats and they are allowed to roam, but I hear that is trying to be changed also.

[jjrakman]

Emerita-

For me, the dog. Definitely the dog.

[Senmut]

I agree, y'all. The dog. After all, I've never had a dog lie about me, stab me in a back, ruin me at work, or steal from me (except for the brownies I left out, once!). As to religion and politics, Emerita? keep 'em coming. After all, R&P are part of what BSG so fun!
And, yes. Anyone who kills babies, of any species, is a sicko!







"Just shout my name. It will stop any opera diva in her tracks."- Wo Fat

[BST]

Em, I can't tell you how infuriated I am about that jackass from Finland. If I met that idiot on the street,.........

What is the trouble in having a pet spayed or neutered? It's not like to have to re-finance your house to afford the price. We have 2 cats, a male and a female. Both are on a regular schedule with the vet and each has been cared for with regards to reproducing. We're glad that we did it but, looking back, it would have been nice to have at least 1 litter from these two. They're both a couple of lovable little furballs!! Both are American shorthair - the female is snow-white and the male has grey and white patches. They're not pets anymore, though, they're part of the family.

:)

BST

[emerita]

What I got from the conversation, it is common practice for pet owners to do this over there and their only reasoning is that everybody does it. I left that forum and I won't go back. I couldn't make him understand that the solution starts with one person. He thought I was saying that he should be responsible for everybody's pet. I know there is a communication barrier when it comes to other countries, but to see it in writing, I can't see how he could misinterperet it. Oh Well, I can't afford to go there and lobby for the spaying and neutering so I said my peace. I hope some of them will understand.....I think my last sentance before I closed my account was asking what did they do with their unwanted children, seeing that they had such little respect for their animals...

[emerita]

That's the way I feel. I keep my pets in the house also. I keep my house clean and bathe my pets once a week. They are company for me and they never complain....... I know that my big dog would kill an attacker if they came into my house to hurt me. She is my protector, but is very friendly, until a hand is raised against me.

I do know that back in the 1500s in China they use to kill girl babies if they were born first. Having a son first was the most important thing. I imagine other countries did that too. No wonder alien species won't make an offical first contact. This planet is still to barbaric...well, that is my opinion anyway......

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

Ever seen "Equilibrium," Jjrakman?

[TwoBrainedCylon]

See there is an old system of politness that says if you have a problem with a particular thing, but do not wish to insult the person with whom you have the problem. Instead of attacking them directly, you use a vague stance, allowing them to decide if they are or are not the offending party.

There's also an old system of talking to the person offline rather than announcing it to the world. Maybe that way, this would all have been settled without involving everybody else.

FWIW, I personally don't care for the slanderous avatar's either, especially those that promote violence against any specific individual, but I'm not in favor of establishing the avatar police either.

I love JJ's avatar though.

Two-Brain

[Senmut]

Yes, no avatar police! Life is too regulated as it is!

[Flamingo Girl]

See, I just see it like sticking a person's picture on a dart board. You wouldn't actually throw darts at the person but you can take out your anger on their photograph.

[emerita]

well.....maybe in my ex's case :D but no, not to a perfect stranger....and I like jjackmans new avatar.... :D

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Picture on a dart board .... good analogy. Although if I walked in someone's house and saw they had a picture of Ron Moore or Bonnie Hammer on a dart board I wouldn't think any less of Ron or Bonnie but I'd sure think less of the person who owned the dart board. To me, something like that just makes you petty and small.

Two-Brain

[jjrakman]

and I like jjackmans new avatar....

Yes Emerita, but if you read the sign he's holding, you'll see he's gay.:eek:

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[jjrakman]

but I'd sure think less of the person who owned the dart board. To me, something like that just makes you petty and small.

I don't know. To me it's just satire. A picture on a dartboard isn't any more provoking to me than a target hairs on Saddam T-shirt. Someone else likened it to a bugs bunny or 3 stoges kind of humor and I think that's a pretty good analogy. I think people are looking way too much into it. It's just parody: no one is suppose to take it seriously. But that's just my opinion.

[emerita]

Originally posted by jjrakman
Yes Emerita, but if you read the sign he's holding, you'll see he's gay.:eek:

Not that there's anything wrong with that...


I thought it was in reference to Starbuck being a girl....opppps. :/:

[jjrakman]

Well I suppose it could be. Tell you what, you just let it be whatever you want:cool:

[Senmut]

How about the bullet they fired, to murder the essence of the character?

[Gemini1999]

JJ -

Your avatars in the weeks that I have been on CF are indeed unique and expressive. As sort of an artist, I beleive that everyone should be able to express themselves freely.

I must say that your current one is wonderful - you have managed to cover all of the bases without offending any groups that I can think of....

Keep up the creative work!
Bryan
________
Lovely Wendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[jjrakman]

Thanks Bryan, here's a new one for ya.

[jewels]

I like Ron Moore as Lucifer.
Jonathan Harris is probably already haunting him. ;) Especially if he's watching the old episodes--finally