Worst thing that ever happened to Galactica?

[toltec1]

Surely isn't the Moore interpretation of BSG.

Go back and read the absolutely god awful garbage spewed out by Maximum Press Studios in the form of a comic book back in the early 90's. 1993 I think.

Think Moore is bad?

Rob Liefeld should be lynched.

[Thomas P]

That last sentence would be a valid post all by itself. ;)

[toltec1]

Originally posted by Dennis
That last sentence would be a valid post all by itself. ;)


Yup.

I have the misfortune of knowing the little megalomanaic. THe guy is a complete whack job in the head.

Being a penciller myself, I did a "comic" about Rob and sent it to him anon.

I understand he threw a 2 year old style temper tantrum when he read it.

[SS1]

Originally posted by Dark Overlord
Surely isn't the Moore interpretation of BSG.

Oh Yes it is.

[i] Go back and read the absolutely god awful garbage spewed out by Maximum Press Studios in the form of a comic book back in the early 90's. 1993 I think.[/B]

I've read it and I agree that the story is on the week side but not all that horrible. It does not nearly come as close as being bad as RDM's script.
What I didn't like about that comic series was the terrible artwork. Starbuck looked liked Fabio, Baltar was bulit like a super Villian and alot of of others flaws that would take a page or 2 to explain.

[i] Think Moore is bad?.[/B]

I think his script is bad.



[i] Rob Liefeld should be lynched. [/B]

I'd rather see Liefeld's vision as a mini series rather than Moore's narrow vision.

Nice Try DarkOverLord!

[crash4587]

the bitter drunk, this makes me puke, I know enough bitter drunks,I don't need to see one on BG

[toltec1]

Originally posted by Scooter2000
I've read it and I agree that the story is on the week side but not all that horrible. It does not nearly come as close as being bad as RDM's script.


I think you need to go back and re read it then. My 8 year old could write a better story.

Find earth, no civilization there, some pyramid looking thingy with suspended humanoids in it, time travel back to the day of the attack, try to reset everything, blah.....

Not all that horrible? I guess if you don't mind a steaming pile of dog crap in the middle of the living room floor.


What I didn't like about that comic series was the terrible artwork. Starbuck looked liked Fabio, Baltar was bulit like a super Villian and alot of of others flaws that would take a page or 2 to explain.

There was a lot more wrong than just the juvenile attempts at "art".


I'd rather see Liefeld's vision as a mini series rather than Moore's narrow vision.

Nice Try DarkOverLord!


Okay, I almost took you seriously for a moment. Liefeld's "vision" would have fans attacking the network with chain saws. There is nothing in that steaming pile of crap worth wasting a mini series on.

Nice try.

[toltec1]

Originally posted by crash4587
the bitter drunk, this makes me puke, I know enough bitter drunks,I don't need to see one on BG


yeah, that was pretty bad.

Which is why I brought up Liefeld's "vision" No matter how bad you think things are, they can be worse. :)

[KJ]

Why bring up Liefeld work now? Wasn't Marvel work on BG hated more by fans. Liefeld stuff started to suck royal during "Journey End" storyline i grant you and he is still hated within the comic book fan community with a vengence but why bring up the Liefeld beef now? If anything the guy was praised in the letter pages of the MP comics the world over for doing the Maximum press stuff.

Don't get me wrong, you are right about the guy. He as a person and his business relationships have always been brought into question? But the universal hate is something i wouldn't get into, dislike maybe, why the strong bitterness? wasn't the Realm Press work also talked about with certain negative feelings also by people and fans?

Whats up? Dark Overlord :(

KJ

[dah66]

Well, I think the worst thing that ever happened to Galactica was its initial cancellation!

[peter noble]

Re: the Maximum Press comic series, Rob is a fan and you can tell through the series it's written by fans of the series.

I didn't like the reimagined uniforms and vipers and Lucifer but it did have that sense of being Galactica for me.

I did like that Apollo and Sheba had a son called Cain and the artwork by Hector Gomez was nice.

The best story was the one Richard wrote. :)

The Marvel series is the most professional job but it failed to intergrate events from the series into it like Sheba coming aboard.

The Realm Press series was wonderfully painted but the whole operation was amateurish.

Peter

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by dah66
Well, I think the worst thing that ever happened to Galactica was its initial cancellation!
Bingo. Well said, Dave.

Michael
:colwar:

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by peter noble
The Realm Press series was wonderfully painted but the whole operation was amateurish.
As someone who was there, I concur. ;)

Michael
:colwar:

[SS1]

Originally posted by Dark Overlord



I think you need to go back and re read it then. My 8 year old could write a better story.

Find earth, no civilization there, some pyramid looking thingy with suspended humanoids in it, time travel back to the day of the attack, try to reset everything, blah.....

Not all that horrible? I guess if you don't mind a steaming pile of dog crap in the middle of the living room floor.


okay, I almost took you seriously for a moment. Liefeld's "vision" would have fans attacking the network with chain saws. There is nothing in that steaming pile of crap worth wasting a mini series on.



I only read the first mini series I didn't get as far as the time travel story.
Never the less, it does sound like a bad story but not as bad as Moore's script.


Also you quote:

"Not all that horrible? I guess if you don't mind a steaming pile of dog crap in the middle of the living room floor."


The only steaming pile of dog crap that I can smell is Moore's script and believe me if it ever gets made it wont be in my living room because it is that unwatchable.

[default]

I hated Leifield's style and his little Maximum Press-gang that emulated it.

That said at least his (bad) stories acknowledged the original series and did present some odd ideas.

I should try and pick them up and the ones from Realms (which I never saw, ever)

Anyone think of any good places to grab the back issues?

[peter noble]

AslanC, try milehighcomics.com or Ebay.

Peter

[KJ]

Speaking of the comics, when will Galactica get a comic book out? i want someone to finally get it right, either DC or it's Wildstorm imprint should get the copyrights to do the comics and revive BG once again in the comic book format. I would also like to so see the Technical Journal the Realm Press couldn't get off the ground be in print or get out to the fans in some fashon or other.

Two Battlestar Galactica related things that should happen.

1) New ongoing series!

2) Cross Section Technical Journal released finally!


KJ

[Apothis]

I think the worse thing that happen to Battlestar Galalctica was when Glen Larson agreed to doing Galactica 1980 the way the network wanted it done. I think he should have fought harder to get the show he wanted. He sold Galactica's soul for a quick buck and we are still paying for it today.

[SS1]

Originally posted by Apothis
I think the worse thing that happen to Battlestar Galalctica was when Glen Larson agreed to doing Galactica 1980 the way the network wanted it done. I think he should have fought harder to get the show he wanted. He sold Galactica's soul for a quick buck and we are still paying for it today.

I never thought the day would come when Apothis would say something so good and something I would agree on.

Yes Galactica 1980 is being thrown back in our faces for reasons not to do a continuation by people like Ronald D Moore, Bonnie Hammer and some Trekfans that are blindly following Moore's vision.

Well put Apothis.:thumbsup:

[KJ]

Whats happening to Galactica now is the worse thing, not being revived as a continuation and being made into a crappy remake, No extras packed, uncut episodes DVD set? no media coverage in shows like ET or mentioned by industry folk? A sleeping giant of a franchise being treated like Rodney Dangerfield, No respect whatsoever!

All this adds to Galactica's destruction for good, if not attended to?

[vmnjn]

I agree that the worst thing to happen to BG was its initial cancelation.

However, BG was a source of constant struggle and internal shakeups. The departure of Colla and his grand Battlestar fleet being one of the first of many "changes" in BG. It seems that many scifi shows suffer from "too many chiefs."

The various attempts to resurrect BG can be considered bad things too, in a way. Instead of creating one path that fans can rally behind or despise. The various comics, books, and even Hatch's courageous efforts have overloaded the continuity and relatively small fan base.

BG lacks the recent Star Wars liscences that insist on maintaining continuity. While some of the Star Wars work has hardly been good, it does not have the blatant conflicts rampant in Star Trek's continuity. I would prefer that BG would maintain one storyline but most of the "liscensed" works conflict to almost a Star Trek degree.

Moore's vision is merely another nail in the coffin of BG's continuity. I would like BG to recieve the same detail and care evident in most of the Star Wars, Babylon5, and even Stargate productions. However it lacks the support of those influential enough in Hollywood to prevent this.

While Moore's efforts are bad and misguided, they are merely the latest in a long line of "changes" suffered by a fiction with truly epic potential.

[Cosmic Cleric]

Originally posted by vmnjn
However, BG was a source of constant struggle and internal shakeups. The departure of Colla and his grand Battlestar fleet being one of the first of many "changes" in BG. It seems that many scifi shows suffer from "too many chiefs."


Could you elaborate some on what happend to Colla? Or maybe point me to some info on the web about it? I was always curious as to what happened to get him fired (if it was being fired?).

:confused:

[vmnjn]

http://www.geocities.com/repcisg/index.html

Has some info about Colla's original vision for the Battlestar fleet at Cimtar.

Can't remember offhand about details of his fate. Basically Larson wanted to redo the entire scene but couldn't afford to and also something to do with the Colla's work being protected by the SAG?

[peter noble]

At the moment, the worst thing that is happening to Galactica apart from the RDM madness is the bloody trolls on the Sci-Fi board. No doubt certain parties will be handed printouts on Monday morning of the latest shenanigans and our standing in the halls of TPTB will once again be diminished. :(

Peter

[Apothis]

I was on there earlier today and I could not believing the flaming. I really feel bad for KJ since I don't know why there is so many on there that want him out. Every time he post, someone has to flame him. I don't get it. I imagine, Bonnie and Ron will be laughing up a storm on Monday when they get the printouts.

[peter noble]

I do feel for him. Unfortunately KJ, just exacerbates the problem by refusing to ignore the flames. A perfectly good thread can be totally spoiled IMHO.

Peter

[Artemis]

I don't even bother going there anymore. I only pop by when there is a link from here saying there is something interesting. If trolls were orcs it would look like the battle for Helm's Deep on that board. :spear:

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by Cosmic Cleric
Could you elaborate some on what happend to Colla? Or maybe point me to some info on the web about it? I was always curious as to what happened to get him fired (if it was being fired?).
imho, qmodo (Susan Paxton) of Battlestar Zone web site fame is the resident expert within fandom on this. (No offense, Robert.)

You might want to ask her via the scifi.com BG bboard or via her web site. I could chime in, but she does a much better job of explaining it.

Michael
:colwar:

[KJ]

Fret not Peter, i learned today although i can't name names and talk too much about such matter here, but those Smigs are here? Why else would there be votes against me even when posting Galactica news? Well don't worry anymore i'll take time off from there to post here? i let my harden skin shed but not again.

Thanks to Apothis and Michael Faries i finally removed my link to sci-fi for now? just let Lang and others fight against themselves. While i'm here i can enjoy a better discussion based thread atmosphere.

KJ

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by Lord Kingjason
Thanks to Apothis and Michael Faries i finally removed my link to sci-fi for now? (...)
Don't thank me, KingJason. You were advised various times before not to feed the trolls, yet you continued... and continued... and continued. You ignored my heeds.

Normally, I'm diplomatic and focused. Frankly, you really ticked me off with your latest troll feedings. When one of my inside contacts recently tells me information that TrekLord only confirmed today with his own posting, the damage becomes apparent. Read my posting at scifi.com which addresses this.

You have a clean slate here. I don't moderate; I don't run this bboard. I have no more special pull than anyone here, regardless of my work in fandom. I will say: I don't want to see the same attitude here that was exhibited there.

Michael

[repcisg]

No offence taken Michael :D

Susan's site is the quintessential source for Colla & Larson conflict.
:thumbsup:

[KJ]

Same here! Usually i'm a fun loving guy, it not my fault some trolls targeted me? If anyone's ticked off it's ME not you. i was thanking your suggestion which made me remove the sci-fi link, if not i would still be there so i can't read your posting there.

If advice on the situation is to be met, i've e-mails and e-mailed the sci-fi channel ages ago about trolls on there and Nothing became of it. So as much as your ticked off, and with all due respect to all you have done reviving the continuation version of BG. You're being "Ticked" pales in comparision to me and the troll nonesense i got from over there! So please no selfrightousness from anyone and i mean that, in the kindest way possible! :) I'm an upfront kind of guy and that won't change, i'm not sugary sweet but i do respect other people's opinions in a discussion and have admited to being wrong in the past. I am sensible enough to be reasoned with.

I've wrote alot of positive posts in the past trying to like all continuation fans to bring back Galactica so lets not forget besides my battle with them trouble makers, i just wanted some peace to post which me and some others don't get over there.

Well my hand of friendship is still extended should, people want to talk to me on BG articles and SORRY to everyone if you misunderstood the gesture of thanks. Prehaps it should go out to Apothis more due to his kind words. In future i'll post less and talk more on events than the fanboy stuff?

Later people!

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by Lord Kingjason
You're being "Ticked" pales in comparision to me and the troll nonesense i got from over there! So please no selfrightousness from anyone and i mean that, in the kindest way possible!

Then read this and tell me differently.

http://bboard.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/531/317243/8

You're damn straight I'm ticked. Case closed. I'm not discussing this further.

Michael
:colwar:

[KJ]

Don't waste time putting up links cos i know what was posted, and i too say the case is closed. nuff said.

But you still weren't as ticked as i was! so lets just leave it at that.

KJ

[DaveC001]

Some responses here demonstrate a lack of understanding about what the issue is. "Who is the most ticked off" doesn't matter at all. The issue is the level of damage done to the credibility of the Galactica fanbase when discussions degenerate into foul comments about sex acts with farm animals and the like. To date, I have yet to see a single Michael Faries post along those lines, and for that, I - and the rest of the fanbase - can be grateful. Would that all - ticked off or not - could show similar restraint.

[Stevew]

I usually don't bother to go there much but maybe some of the agitatoer are moles put there to try and make the real BSG fans look bad?
If so best to ignore these fools no matter how mad they make one.
Misery loves company so best leave them alone in their misery
IMHO
Steve:)

[Cosmic Cleric]

Thanks Michael for the Battlestar Zone web site info! :)

[michaelfaries]

Cosmic Cleric: Glad to help.

Stallion_Cornell: Thanks for bringing extra clarity to the issue.

Michael

[KJ]

Well Stevew looks like there are "Moles" on the Sci-fi Bboards, Languatron's either decided to make his handle e-mailble or someone at Universal got so mad they stole his handle and made it e-mailble? Even Languatron wouldn't do that after the amount of people that want his blood (figure of speech)

Best to let it go then, i'm posting here, for now?!

KJ

[Stevew]

The Sci-fi channel would be advised to come here to see what the BSG fans really want. I don't go there unless someone I know posts there, otherwise I just ignore the trolls
S:D

[peter noble]

The worst thing that's happened to Galactica seems to have happened yesterday (Jan 4), judging by Michael's posts on the Sc-Fi board.

It looks like the end of the 'official' run of classic BSG and the birth of Pornstar Dysfunctia.

Lorne Greene must be spinning in is grave.

The last time I was this depressed was in 1987 (don't ask).

Peter (in his cups) :(

[Bijou88]

Galactica has had a long series of bad breaks. First, the original series is rushed into production so they also had to rush on scripts. Then the show gets cancelled. ABC then rushes Galactica 1980 into production and is a dismal failure. It is soon cancelled. Except for hard core fans, the show is forgotten. Twenty years pass. Richard Hatch makes a great trailer for a a new series but is turned down by the suits. A continuation is planned, sets are built, but the project falls apart after creative forces leave to pursue other endeavors. The show is reimagined and becomes a cable tv hit. The popular press looks down its collective nose at the original show and hails the remake as the greatest show ever conceived by civilized man. If Classic Battlestar Galactica had no bad luck it would have had no luck at all.

[Eric Paddon]

Boy, we're really excavating some old threads aren't we? :)

The subject that started this thread was the Rob Liefeld Max Press comic book, and frankly speaking, the initial issues of that series are in all likelihood the *Best* original Galactica stories that have emerged from a formally published entity (when one has comics, the Hatch novels and GINO as the collective body which there is to judge) in the years since the show was cancelled. Despite some not very stellar reimaginings in the artistic designs (like Starbuck, Baltar and Cain with the long hair and ponytails), you could tell that Liefeld for the most part had a basic familiarity with the episodes and a number of nuances. I really enjoyed what he did with Apollo-Sheba and he was laying the foundation for an interesting premise that raised questions of what had happened to Earth if they arrived to a prehistoric planet but had picked up the Apollo XI transmission.

Then alas, things went afield starting with Hatch's story, and then the wheels fell off with the dreadful "Journey's End" which in effect thumbed its nose at the entire Galactica mythos by deciding to tinker with how things were established through a time travel cliche. The real problem was that after starting with an epic story, Max Press needed to slow down and have a few low key stories to let other plotlines develop, but it seemed like every new story had to be a higher stakes kind of thing, and by the time we get to Journey's End let's throw the whole kitchen sink in.

I really never had a chance to judge Realm Press's comics much. They were I'm sure a cut above Marvel's (which always have the stigma of not having key episodes in Galactica history incorporated into its universe with LL and WOTG), but Max Press I think at the beginning, did offer a rare moment of something to feel good about.

[Bijou88]

I agree. I remember when the first Max Press issue came out. It was like a dream. There had not been any Galatica product out for about a decade. I was dying for anything new. While I was not crazy about the art work and the reimagined (I hate that word) designs, I was willing to roll with it because it was a continuation of the original storyline. I bought them all. I did like some things that this series added to the Galactica mythos. For example, the beings of light were named the Seraphs. I always thought it was a fitting name.

The Marvel tales were products of their time. My understanding was that Universal licenced only Saga of a star world and lost planet of the gods to Marvel. Everything that followed in the series was off limits. For Marvel to use Cain, Count Iblis, etc would have required Marvel to renegotioate the contract and pay Universal more money for the rights. I was really bummed out when this series was cancelled. It was like having the show cancelled all over again.

The Realm press books looked great. The ships and costumes were dead on. The Problem with Realm was that they were too ambitious. They never seemed to finish a story befor they started a new series. There are like three stories that have never been resolved because the company went out of business.

Oh well, maybe some day there will be new classic Galactica on the stands again.

[dilbertman]

I agree. I remember when the first Max Press issue came out. It was like a dream. There had not been any Galatica product out for about a decade. I was dying for anything new. While I was not crazy about the art work and the reimagined (I hate that word) designs, I was willing to roll with it because it was a continuation of the original storyline. I bought them all. I did like some things that this series added to the Galactica mythos. For example, the beings of light were named the Seraphs. I always thought it was a fitting name.

The Marvel tales were products of their time. My understanding was that Universal licenced only Saga of a star world and lost planet of the gods to Marvel. Everything that followed in the series was off limits. For Marvel to use Cain, Count Iblis, etc would have required Marvel to renegotioate the contract and pay Universal more money for the rights. I was really bummed out when this series was cancelled. It was like having the show cancelled all over again.

The Realm press books looked great. The ships and costumes were dead on. The Problem with Realm was that they were too ambitious. They never seemed to finish a story befor they started a new series. There are like three stories that have never been resolved because the company went out of business.

Oh well, maybe some day there will be new classic Galactica on the stands again.
The sooner the better. BTW, I have been in contact with Chris Scalf lately and he is working on a new website. One of the things on it will be a history of Realm Press. He also plan's a 'Now and Then' section, showing art from the comic and how he would do it now. Let me tell you that I have seen the first update, based on cover #2 and all I can say is WOW! If you liked his art then you should love it now. If a classic Galactica comic comes back I hope Chris does the art on some of them. Chris said he would post here at Fleets when the site is ready.

Jim :eek:

[Bijou88]

That's great news! I can't wait!

:)

[Eric Paddon]

I would love seeing a new TOS comics series done properly emerge again, if only because unlike the Hatch novels, the comics offered on occasion a more appropriate vision of how things could have continued.

[moabyte]

The worst thing? Hmmm... I'll have to think about that one... I'll get back to you

[Lara]

Looking back over all that has come and gone, the 'worst' thing is poppa Larson/ Universal wilful neglect of the franchises potential.
Not only sabotaging continuation attempts (and I am NOT just referring to the birth of TNS), but lacklustre DVD releases, failure to merchandise to the fan base etc etc.

If only they had been more liberal with the rights to the franchise much earlier, and if they didn't want to actually do anything with his creation, then they should have set it free and just taken the money.. They think it has worth but they can't find the key to unlock it, meanwhile the object of their obsession is suffering from their neglect.

Considering what the fanbase has done despite this indifference, think of what we could have had with the owners' blessings/assisstance!!

I know its not that simple.

Too many wasted opportunities, too many so near and yet so far projects.

(But it truly LIVES with the fans... :) )

Cheers,
Lara

[Damocles]

<snip>
If only they had been more liberal with the rights to the franchise much earlier, and if they didn't want to actually do anything with his creation, then they should have set it free and just taken the money..

I know its not that simple.

Too many wasted opportunities, too many so near and yet so far projects.

(But it truly LIVES with the fans... :) )

Cheers,
Lara

But it was simple and is in the hands of the fans.

Consider;

http://ifh.firstones.com/

and;

http://www.starwreck.com/

The fans have taken matters into their own hands.

As always,

[Eric Paddon]

Well Lara, I wouldn't call the DVD release "lackluster." In fact, compared to all the other TV shows of this era that Universal has released on DVD, Galactica has fared the best. We got lucky that a different management was still in place at Universal at the time, which had released only one vintage show on DVD ("Baretta"-Season 1) and nothing else through 2003. That meant when they put together Galactica, they gave it all the bells and whistles you could ask for. The only tidbits I would have liked to have seen that weren't there were the blooper reels from the 15 Yahren Con and maybe some of the bumpers ("Battlestar Galactica will continue in a moment") but the idea that all of the deleted footage from Saga was something I never would have anticipated at all!

Today though, Universal is just churning out shows on DVD with no regard for producing quality extras. Whether you're a fan of Columbo, Night Gallery, Dragnet, Buck Rogers etc. you won't see your show on DVD get a tenth of the loving care Galactica got on DVD. And for that, we should all feel very fortunate and grateful.

[spcglider]

As someone who was there, I concur. ;)

Michael
:colwar:

So the one thing that really cheesed me off was the complete and utter lack of knowledge exibited in the comic.

The Galactica shows up and Earth is in the Jurrassic period? I know...time travel, blah blah blah.

Take a look at the planet. More specifically the continents.

North America didn't look like that when dinos walked the Earth. None of the continents did. But the accuracy of the historical reality wouldn't have helped that story anyway.

So they expected none of their readers to know the difference, suspected they were too stupid to recognize Pangaea when they saw it, or were too ignorant of geological history to put it in.

That big of a mistake literally ruins the experience for me. Maybe I'm too harsh, but that's the way I see it. My wife nearly blew a gasket when she read it.

-Gordon

[Lara]

Well Lara, I wouldn't call the DVD release "lackluster." In fact, compared to all the other TV shows of this era that Universal has released on DVD, Galactica has fared the best.

I'll agree that it was a lot better than Universal has generally done with its property, but my Stargate, B5 or Trek sets are better packaged, with more info, and my B7 sets have better use of the additional material.

However, I am looking at this from a R4 buyers POV. There was no booklet insert, no extra commentary etc etc, as we were promised. The set was delivered late and the version we got inside the Cylon Head packaging by the time they got to us was only the standard 6 discs with the 7th one shoved in in a paper sleeve. Good, but not brilliant, and not all the bells and whistles the fans had been discussing.. Without getting a R1 Cylon Head set, I'm still not sure exactly what I've missed

I agree the deleted footage was nice



Today though, Universal is just churning out shows on DVD with no regard for producing quality extras. Whether you're a fan of Columbo, Night Gallery, Dragnet, Buck Rogers etc. you won't see your show on DVD get a tenth of the loving care Galactica got on DVD. And for that, we should all feel very fortunate and grateful.

And I didn't intend to bite the hand that fed me, but for $AUS130 I expected what their own media release promised, and not play poor cousin to the R1 release.

I should have said video as well as DVD..

Getting the VHS / PAL tapes was hard, and then they weren't the locally aired version and several of them were terrible transfers. And VERY expensive.
When the cable station started up 10 years ago and was showing BSG, it started selling the VHS tapes. These were better, and when they finally hit general sales five years back, I was finally able to complete the set (Stupid mismatched covers and all..)

The show was a network headliner down here, in prime time, and is still remembered well by people of my/our generation..

Cheers,
Lara

[Eric Paddon]

Sorry you had a rougher experience with the R4 release. I was viewing things only through the R1 prism, and on that score Galactica does come out way ahead and I think far better than Star Trek: TOS has. But not being aware of the R4 experience I can see why you would have formed that conclusion.

The VHS experience for Galactica in the U.S. market was indeed bad with only weak one part episodes released (until LPOTG and GOIPZ around 1997) and using bad master elements.

[Sept17th]

This question is tuff. I'd say doing Galactica1980 then Larson not bringing the show back around the mid 1990's when television was friendly to space opera and Larson still had clout. :cry:

[dilbertman]

Well Chris has his site up. Here's a link to the site and one the the page with the now & then art.

http://www.chrisscalf-art.com/index.htm

http://www.chrisscalf-art.com/images/Knew%20then%20Know%20now/BSG%20Cover2.htm

Jim :thumbsup:

[Belloby]

What Moore is doing it is not BSG. He can call it BSG, but it just plain isn't, so I don't even pay any attention to it.

The worst thing that happened to BSG was the Lucas lawsuit filed way back when. I remember that's when things began to take a downturn. Suddenly, BSG was associated with Star Wars, which it clearly wasn't. And then because BSG was a "rip off of Star Wars" it had no legitimacy in the SF world. To me it just wasn't fair. Nobody saw BSG for what it was, which was a very imaginative and FUN show.

[spcglider]

Somebody had to come first. In what most folks consider the "modern era of space opera" that would be StarWars. Galactica wasn't a direct rip-off of Star Wars as it was in development before SW hit theatres, but Star Wars DID loosen the purse strings of many studios and set the tone for the amazing visual effects bills that would be arriving as a result of their forays into space opera.

Tear them both down to their basic structure and the two are completely dissimilar.

Look at them on the surface, and they appear to be "kissin' cousins".

-G

[spcglider]

The odd thing about Galactica is that it bears a resemblance to another property that I love... The Micronauts.

Not so much in story as in the way it's been handled over the years. Like the Micronauts, everybody has their own version of what the property is about. With the 'Nauts, you have the original japanese Microman storyline, the Marvel comics storyline, the storyline that came up in the Devils' Due comic series, the storyline that was purported by the Micronauts paperback novels, the micronauts storyline that was in development for the potential animated series , the storyline suggested by recent appearances of the original Micronauts characters in various Marvel comics titles and the storylines we all made up as kids when we were playing with the toys! Now there's a major motion picture version floating around on the periphery. What it comes down to is that there is NO ONE OFFICIAL storyline. Its confusing to the marketplace.

So now we've had the official television history of Galactica, the continuation dictated by Galactica 1980, the original Marvel Comics storyline, the Realm Press storyline, the Rob Leifeld storyline, the new Sci-Fi Channel version, the version Richard Hatch presses in his novels, the Tom DeSanto version, and the version we all carry around in our own heads fromthe bazillion or so fan-fic stories we've ingested over the years. And depending on the fan, each one buys into a totally different assemblage of all of the above. Its confusing at best.

Its no wonder that the general public doesn't know what to make of Battlestar Galactica! Its no wonder the suits in Hollywood are skittish to support anything other than what's on tv right now.

The worst thing that happened to Galactica? When Universal decided they didn't care who wrote what about it. It diluted the brand. To many cooks in the kitchen, I say.

-Gordon

[Eric Paddon]

I'd have to disagree with that for the most part, and having written fanfic set in multiple universes regarding the post-HOG world of Galactica, I probably am biased on that point. In the absence of a live action project set after HOG, I think it's not possible for there to have been any kind of "official" storyline that Universal could have, or should have for that matter, patented. IMO what Universal needed to do was loosen the standards for an explosion of Galactica novels done by the more talented authors out there, and opened up a wider range of interesting storytelling to a wider audience. Star Trek has not been hurt by having a wide range of novels out there, none of which technically can be said to represent being part of the official Trek storyline. Galactica IMO could only have been strengthened if people had a chance to see what I've seen in the fanfic realm: That there are a lot of good stories in different post-HOG universes in which to go with these characters and the story templates given us by all of the original episodes.

[spcglider]

Then we'll have to agree to dis-agree! :salute:

We're not talking about a venerated brand like, say Batman or Superman or even Star Trek for that matter. Those properties had many years of opportunity to embedd their base storyline and the relationships between characters in the American concious before they started mucking about with them.

Galactica got one season and then was off the radar for a long time. Somebody above said that it would have been pretty much the perfect event to have a revival in the late 1980's or early 1990's and I agree.

When the majority of the television watching public gets Larson's Buck Rogers and Galactica confused (and they DO... try talking about it at church some day or in a crowd of NASCAR fans at a party... you'll see) its hard to get a studio exec to buy in. It's got a percieved lack of clear focus as a property.

"Yeah, I used to love that show," they say, "That Starbuck Rogers was kinda dumb but that little Twiggy robot was funny and those flying motorcycles were kick ass! I hated that kid and his robot bear though. Didn't they have a monkey on that show too?"

"No." you say, "There was a monky inside the daggit suit. But there was no monkey ON the show."

"Huh, could'a sworn there was a monkey and a gal with huge hooters."

"You're thinking of BJ and the Bear."

"The kid with the bear was named BJ? I thought he was daggit?"

And so on. I kid you not. This is a REAL conversation.

One of the reasons that the Moore Galactica is doing so well is that they took the property and declared their mastery over it. They got rid of anything ambiguous and chiseled their version in video stone. And because they got there first, they have the upper hand in calling the rules of the property's universe. They took advantage of the whole new generation of TV watchers who don't remember all the great stuff we do about the original. Yes, there are plenty of OLD fans out there. But there are potential NEW fans entering the room every day. And all the NEW fans know is the NEW Galactica. If they even know the old show exists, they don't care about it.

The owner of the rights to the MICRONAUTS, Ken Abrams, has contacted me on several occasions to help him sort out all the troublesome details of who-owns-what and what-details-belong-where with the many Micronaut storylines. Each time he calls, its more confounding than the last. Trying to explain the differences is a pain in the butt.

But I think he's working on "re-imagining" the Micronauts in the same way Moore has re-imagined Galactica. He pretty much knows my feelings about that, so he's not really telling me much about it. Its probably a smart move and a very market-wise one. A "re-boot" of the entire property.

Anyway, I guess the way I should have phrased it was not "diluted the brand", but "fractured the following".

If a new Galactica came up, say as a movie, and it was based upon Richard Hatch's books, I'd be just as dis-inclined to watch it as the Sci-Fi version. I don't like Richard's take on the property. And I know quite a few others who don't as well.

If it was based on the Leifeld comics, I wouldn't be interested either. And that's all personal taste.

Though I know that there're tons of fans out there who think Richard's books are the be-all and end-all of the franchise. And they'd be all over it. But the producers would be missing out on potential nostalgia dollars. And they don't like that. They want ALL the dollars.

With all of this stuff hanging around, how do you please everybody and make your NEW OLD Galactica a viable property that ALL of the OLD fans will enjoy and NEW fans will not take as a rip-off of the Sci-fi version?

Its quite a pickle. In fact, it may be more of a kumquat.

-G

[Eric Paddon]

But compared to the number of original novels that are not set in one consistent universe, Battlestar Galactica has gotten far less than any other sci-fi TV property I know of. And that again is Universal not giving us the fanbase, greater creative freedom to flood the market with more stories involving these characters. I do not believe one person, especially Richard Hatch, should have been the only one so lucky to do so especially when his novels aren't even remotely recognizable to me given their appalling disregard for continuity.

If anything, it's that lack of high visibility in novels from an active fanbase that I think creates the problems you cite on lack of focus because Galactica never had anything out there that explicitly built off the series except for the two comic book series in the early 90s. I think the solution was to have more people writing and showing what could be done, and also it would have helped to have some adaptations of the episodes in print form that weren't so far afield from the actual episodes like Larson's novelizations are. Case in point is how one thing that helped maintain interest in Trek during the 70s in the pre-VCR era was that James Blish's episode adaptations were for the most part fairly faithful recreations of the episodes themselves that managed to keep the template of Trek familiar in the minds of people when they weren't watching the show in repeats.

All this comes back to is that the greater the market for novels based on the original series that observed faithful continuity to what went on in the episodes (THAT is where a censor should have been needed. Not to give us one universe post-HOG but to just insure that a multitude of projects in different universes steemed from a consistent world of what the series established), then the better off Galactica would have been just like Trek prospered with dozens of novels that will never be part of their official timeline (even though some of them like "Yesterday's Son" deserve to be).

[spcglider]

I think we maybe agreeing, but from different directions.

What I was saying is that the mutitude of spin-off stuff that happened (like the two comic series and Richard's books) had wildly divergent ideas of where the entirety of the property's future should go. And that comes from Universal simply handing out the rights to whomever ponied up the cash without keeping an eye on what they were doing with it. If the studio thought that the property was worth it, they'd have had a "continuity cop" watching over it to make sure that the brand identity didn't get muddied. Much like Lucasfilm does (though not very well) with Star Wars.

What I perceive YOU are saying (and correct me if I'm mis-interpreting here) is that the stories could have continued infinitely (much like the Star Trek novel stories) as long as there WAS some continuity with the old show... telling many many many new stories and perhaps even advancing the plotline WITHOUT necessarily damaging the perception of the property. Thus keeping the show in the public eye and maintaining it's viability as a money-maker and continuously re-energizing it's fandom with new releases (much like the Dr.Who books and audio adventures).

And to that I agree.

-G

[Dawg]

The Star Trek books have to meet certain criteria as dictated by Paramount. It would be simple for Universal to do the same thing for BSG - but they haven't, and aren't likely to.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Eric Paddon]

Could well be that's the case. I sort of looked at what you said initially and though that the implication was only one post-HOG future licensed by Universal for all intents and purposes that would have given us something like the Star Wars situation where every published work must fit into a pre-approved chronology and that there are no ways of telling stories where one can disregard the prequel trilogy etc.

THe thing that has plagued Galactica over the years from the print standpoint is they have episode novelizations that are (1) not presented in proper sequence. You could get away with that with the James Blish Trek adaptations since Trek is a set of self-contained stories but not in Galactica and (2) retain too much of early draft ideas, and not the final versions of what aired, thus giving us the alien picture of the Cylons still as reptiles etc. When this gets followed by Hatch's novels that didn't pay attention to chronology at all within the show, the situation was made worse.

[spcglider]

THe thing that has plagued Galactica over the years from the print standpoint is they have episode novelizations that are (1) not presented in proper sequence. You could get away with that with the James Blish Trek adaptations since Trek is a set of self-contained stories but not in Galactica and (2) retain too much of early draft ideas, and not the final versions of what aired, thus giving us the alien picture of the Cylons still as reptiles etc. When this gets followed by Hatch's novels that didn't pay attention to chronology at all within the show, the situation was made worse.

Absolutely agreed!

One is forced to wonder if Richard read any of his own ghost writing and checked it over for anomalies? Or maybe he didnt care. Or maybe he did care and let it slide anyway?

But this isn't a thread to condemn RH's books.

Maybe then, the best answer to"the worst thing that ever happened to Galactica" might be that it was abandoned by the studio left to fend for itself for so many years?

-G

[spcglider]

It wasn't loved.

-G

[Eric Paddon]

An abused child is one way of describing Universal's relationship toward Galactica over the years. Or an absentee landlord that lets a once great piece of architecture decay for decades and doesn't have it refurbished and when loyal enthusiasts band together and get it restored, Universal then decides it's going to turn the property into a completely different kind of building entirely. The analogies are endless.

On the novels, Richard just needed a fanfic author to act not necessarily as a co-author, but as a story editor who could have stopped potential problems right in their tracks.

[captmiloman]

Well, I think the worst thing that ever happened to Galactica was its initial cancellation!



What are the first three letters of the alphabet? Or yeah, A-B-C. Universal should've taken BG over to a different network like they did when ABC cancelled "The Bionic Woman".

[dilbertman]

What are the first three letters of the alphabet? Or yeah, A-B-C. Universal should've taken BG over to a different network like they did when ABC cancelled "The Bionic Woman".
They did, but both CBS & NBC did not add it to there line-ups. Back in 79' Starlog had a write up about that.

Jim