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Matador
September 18th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Think there's any chance of Talking Glen Larson into remastering the original series with updated effects and all.

Paramount came out with a version of STAR Trek "Remastered"

They basically took the original episodes and updated them with new special effects and enhanced the footage.

I would love to be able to talk MR. Larson into doing this. Although I love the original series and special effects...
Could you imaging seeing way more Vipers, Raders, and lasers?

:smart:I think this would really help bring back the original to a new generation of viewers.

Senmut
September 25th, 2009, 09:37 PM
As long as things retain the same "look", by which I mean the deatils of ships, planets, et al, then sure. But the rest, leave it as it is!!!
And yes, it just might help give a revival/continuation a boost.

Matador
September 26th, 2009, 09:15 AM
As long as things retain the same "look", by which I mean the deatils of ships, planets, et al, then sure. But the rest, leave it as it is!!!
And yes, it just might help give a revival/continuation a boost.

Yes I agree, I would only want to see more ships and maybe some fancy camera angles... But I would not want to change anything else.

I liked the original feel of the show. I would totally keep the looks of the ships the same... Just more vipers, raders, and Lasers.:LOL:

KJ
September 26th, 2009, 10:19 AM
Excellent thread Matador. Its indeed something that ought to happen with news of their being a BSG movie in the pre-development somewhat. And for any such remastering to be given the Blu-Ray DVD treatment, with all the deleted scenes from all the episodes restored to their original broacasted scene placement etc.

But unlike Star Trek Remastered (and also the forgotten remastered 'Red Dwarf' episodes), hope its a more hands on approach that doesn't miss out on remastering the elements that sorely needs them. Such remastering efforts would also greatly benefit from have a 5.1 or 7.1 Surround Sound DTS track added to the potential Remastered DVD's of the classic series in this manner. I've always said if the fanbase were truly organised properly. That David Kerin's fanedits should be sent to Larson or whomever in charge, of the vast potential way these edits could be given a huge spruce up.

Only thing this efforts got going for it, is the news of the Bryan Singer BG movie thats in talks at Universal right now. When the original series DVD's came out in 2003, they were originally something that might not have happened at all at one stage. Jack Stauffer told me at the Birmingham convention in 2005 of how it was Universal's video department that got the ball rolling on the BSG DVD release and not Universal themselves who's right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing as he 'metaphored' it somewhat!

Yes, i think with an invested fan effort, one thats not driven to getting Universal to get a BSG movie going this time. Is to convince the suits (or uni's video department) that a Remstered Blu-Ray DVD release of the original series keyed in with the big screen film release of BG, would be a totally smart investment in the long run. i.e. movie merchandise to sell during the film's global box office run etc.

Other than that, if the studios don't listen to the fanbase. Fan efforts also provide us with how things could look if they took the time to give the original some CGI SFX's. I've got plans to join a fanedit community and make a few fanedits myself, but nothings for certain, only that i've got a few ideas i'd love to act on if i were to do so.

A fanedit of the Pilot episode, Living Legend, War Of The Gods and a compliation made of some G80 scenes/SFX footage, but made out to be; a 'final' BG What if episode after 'Hand Of God'. Also a DVD akin to the Star Wars: Deleted Magic, Building Empire and Returning To Jedi documentary series, based on the pilot (so much behind the scene stuff has materialised now, cos of the internet?!) etc.

When the movie gets going for real, then we'll see.

I really want it to happen. But it really better be a "hands on" effort though either through Universal Studios or a company given the task (via extended licensing) of remastering the BSG episodes for Blu-Ray, moreso than the Star Trek remastered ones were. Cos they missed out on so much potential stuff to remaster properly, don't get me wrong, they were good but also kinda flat and lacking somewhat too.

I'd also hope such a undertaking to digitally remaster BSG would also include the latest technologies. Cos even in a few years time, something else will be coming round the corner like (3D/holographic digital projection) and like regular DVD's, Blu-Ray might be seen as average or inferior in comparison. That probably not really likely just yet, but in the meantime thinking ahead helps doesn't it! For those unseen *bumps* in the road, so to speak.

Any thoughts on what i've said? :cool::salute:

Laters

KJ

Matador
September 26th, 2009, 10:55 AM
Love the idea... I would love to see this happen. But not sure were to start. A Blue-Ray remastered would be an anwesome idea.

I think putting together a concept would not be too difficult if we can get anough fan based members to partisipate. Especially those of us that are into CG animation and wouldn't mind pitching in a few seens to bring together a descent short. One that could be shown to any of the bigwigs at Universal.
Sort of a mini commercial to pitch the idea.

Also an Idea that I had would be to extend the episodes, including some deleted scenes and so on. To lengthen the episodes... Sort of like cliff-hangers... Were each story does not have to be solved in an hour, but to help extend the story for the next week, type thing.
Maybe even film a few extra seens to fill in gaps or help extend scenes.

I love your ideas and hopefully we can see something start to happen. Just need to get some folks involved.

I hope this is the begning of something cool.

:rotf:

KJ
September 26th, 2009, 08:32 PM
Yeah it ought to happen. But no planning ever seems to come of it. But with a theatrical BSG film possibly on the way in a few years time. Doing this or getting somebody to do it for real, is the first big step.

Figured CFF could do another poster ad or magazine page advert for it, as i've suggested in the past. But this time send it to Universal themselves along with some fanedit example etc and a letter to Glen Larson or whomever weilds some real influence at the boardroom/studios.

I'd like to keep alot of the model shots but also have some really high grade CGI in there. I mean stuff that'll make the Star Trek Remastered CGI look amatuer-ish by comparison. Removed the stock footage of SFX effects, and make minor subtle changes to certain things. Also colour-correct and enhance some of the film stock of the original footage, and give it a digital makeover, classic BSG also needs alot of the colour restored, even on the 2003 DVD's, the colour of somethings looks way washed out, it'll need a serious spruce up in a good 35% to 40% percent of the episodes.

The starfields could really be enhanced too, rather than have bland black space all the time. I'd also like to see some digital changes to existing things from the original that a remastered series, could greatly increase and update. I'd like to see the Galactica and Pegasus touched upon when it comes down to Living Legend episode for example. And have each Battlestar be similar yet different with several CGI touch-ups. Have the big 'G' be a 'darker grey' while Cain's ship is an older lighter tan-ish colour, and have a perfect CGI recreation of the Pegasus do flyby's and beauti-shots near and around the Galactica (original model and 'CGI mesh' etc?).

Same goes for the pilot and the 5 flying Battlestars, during the 'Battle Of Cimtar'!

There's just so much that could be done with this old series, and so much to benefit from it, if it were to be done tomorrow!

Yeah. But how to go about it is another challenge in itself.

KJ

KJ
September 26th, 2009, 08:36 PM
For a remastered BSG series to be done right!

You'd need alot of Macs with tons of processing power. And not done on PC's, like fanedits have been. For a professional job like this you'd also need the latest tech out there too.

KJ

KJ
September 26th, 2009, 08:45 PM
Isn't this a fine example of what we're talking about!

http://www.space2099.tv/video/03_futurepast_f8.htm

Damn.

KJ

TwoBrainedCylon
September 27th, 2009, 07:41 AM
For a remastered BSG series to be done right!

You'd need alot of Macs with tons of processing power. And not done on PC's, like fanedits have been. For a professional job like this you'd also need the latest tech out there too.

KJ


Respectfully, MACs or PCs don't matter in this case. Its partly the software and mostly the talent of the people doing the job. Macs have a small advantage in industry work because of interoperability but they offer ZERO advantage of how good the final product will be.


Russell

David Kerin
September 27th, 2009, 08:55 AM
I would love to see a remastering of the original series, with the effects redone, but still keeping the look and style of the 1978 production abilities. If we suddenly go to effects that look like something from today that will really stand out against the feel of the entire production. I think the remastered TOS Trek did a good job of keeping the effects looking like they fit with the time period of the series production. If it became too slick it would not fit with the rest of the look of the series. At least in my opinion.

The edits I put together were for fun and hopefully show some idea of what could be done, but they are far from the professional approach that could be taken. A skilled FX facility and the time to focus on the project could do wonders.

I have to state as well that the MAC does not matter over a PC (or vice-versa) in any way what so ever in these sort of things. The software and mainly the artist are what brings the quality.

Back on the subject... if a movie does come about, and makes tons of $$$$, then maybe Universal would look at a remastering of the original series. Time will tell.

KJ
September 27th, 2009, 09:32 AM
Guess i should've pointed out my opinion better, but i mean that Macs are a favorite tool in the film industry by production/FX suits etc. Not that PC's are ignored mind you. But i did touch on the software part by stating/saying new tech, etc!

And of course it comes down to the talent behind it all.

But i figured, when the BSG film in current production for real (which is miles/years off). Universal could save a lot of necessary time by undertaking such a venture, like remastering the 78 series, and put it on Blu-Ray. Both the original series and have a remastered new version on there as well. Couple of documentaries going into the remastering process, intereviews with Larson and co etc.

If the new BSG movie made and still fails somehow (ala Superman Returns), at least the newly remastered BSG classic series would be available for old fans and a new generation to enjoy!

I just keep thinking back to how Singer doing Superman Returns allowed Warners to say yes to putting out the 'Superman 2: The Richard Donner Cut'. Smart thinking allowed the lost cut to be put together (rather poorly in a way) but get out to the commercial market and "S" fans. Same thing could happen should the Galactica theatrical movie get underway in a year or two, with alot of steam!

Let one BSG project venture, support the other Blu-Ray DVD related one. Seeing as they have similar end goals.

Think many examples should be used to sell the idea to Universal right now! And tell'em all that, money needs to be spend, in order to make alot more of it back. Everything from your Fanedits DK to this fantastic 'Space 2099' fanedited re-invention, could be used as a selling point in retropect. CFF should seriously consider campaigning for it, when the Singer BSG movie gets going.

Far as CGI being too much distraction. I'd hope not, but i can't lie to you guys, i'd still want to see a high-end SE remastering of classic BSG though. Think Adywan's Star Wars re-edits are a prime example of the right balance being struck, of plenty digital effects and touchups, blended with the same model SFX's taking centre stage.

Excellent discussions. Laters gentlemen! :salute:

KJ

P.S. Make this thread a **sticky** please!

Matador
September 27th, 2009, 10:26 AM
I think the ticket would be to get something to Mr. Larson. I feel that if he saw something... Just a sample of what can be done... I think he may be able to get his people together and would see the marketing value of it all.

Personally I don't really care if it is done on PC or mac. My 3d animation programs are on PC and I think if we can get some artists together to work on different parts, etc... As long as we can import and export so that we can share the work, this would be a big help with the process. Someone to focus on battlestar and cylon baseships, one to focus on vipers, and one to work on enhancing the star field would be a great start.
This link discuss some of the programs used for series Firefly.
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/dcc/revfeat/video_fly_inside_firefly/

Is there anyplace that I can get pictures of all four sides of Galactica. Front, side, top, bottom, etc.
I would like to start modeling something.

I think if we could just get a short, that shows enhanced footage of the cylon attack on Caprica, the fleet, and the chase scene with Apollo and his brother, then send it to Larson and have to show at conventions. I think that would be a great start

Captain Chirri
September 27th, 2009, 10:56 AM
I can't believe the twisted plot bunny that just sprang into my head.

What if, instead of coming back empty handed from his journed through space, Superman were to meet up with and make friends with the Colonials?

In the Superman mythos, the planet Krypton was settled over thirty thousand years ago by two stranded humanoids, named Kryp and Ton, male and female respectively.

Is it at all possible that they were descendants of Kobol too? Or of Parnassus?

It took them thirty thousand or more years to adapt to living under the conditions of a red sun and monster gravity, to the point where they developed a truly dense molecular structure, optic mutations (heat and x-ray vision and all that neat stuff), flying (defying gravity), etc.

I'm too lazy to do more than come up with the idea, but if someone wants to borrow it and write a fic, you have my blessings.

Dawg
September 27th, 2009, 11:25 AM
I think the ticket would be to get something to Mr. Larson. I feel that if he saw something... Just a sample of what can be done... I think he may be able to get his people together and would see the marketing value of it all.

Personally I don't really care if it is done on PC or mac. My 3d animation programs are on PC and I think if we can get some artists together to work on different parts, etc... As long as we can import and export so that we can share the work, this would be a big help with the process. Someone to focus on battlestar and cylon baseships, one to focus on vipers, and one to work on enhancing the star field would be a great start.
This link discuss some of the programs used for series Firefly.
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/dcc/revfeat/video_fly_inside_firefly/

Is there anyplace that I can get pictures of all four sides of Galactica. Front, side, top, bottom, etc.
I would like to start modeling something.

I think if we could just get a short, that shows enhanced footage of the cylon attack on Caprica, the fleet, and the chase scene with Apollo and his brother, then send it to Larson and have to show at conventions. I think that would be a great start

While it couldn't hurt to get Mr. Larson on board this idea, he does not have decision-making authority on this. NBC/Universal does. I think the movie might give them the incentive to consider such a thing, though, particularly if this would fit in the marketing of it.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

David Kerin
September 27th, 2009, 12:15 PM
Does anyone have contact/address information for Glen Larson? The thought passed through my brain a couple times to send him copies of the fan edits, even as a thank you for the inspiration. Not sure if it would do anything toward a serious attempt at such a thing, but I don't think it would hurt anything. I of course would stress this was all for fan enjoyment and never in any way was money taken for this, or any claim to copyright... yada yada yada.

Let me know what you all think... would it be a good idea to send him copies?

KJ
September 27th, 2009, 12:32 PM
While it couldn't hurt to get Mr. Larson on board this idea, he does not have decision-making authority on this. NBC/Universal does.

Well like i said, a CFF campaign or sent examples by BSG Fandom to NBC/Universal department head (suit) with enough influence and power, who'd seriously consider taking steps to making it a reality.

Like i said also, Jack Stauffer told me and several fans years ago, it took bare time for the 2003 BSG DVD's to get going. That they ever got made and put out there commerically, is a small miracle in itself! Especially all those extras it received too, in comparison to Larson's barebones Buck Rogers series released on DVD afterwards.

Looks like that path might be taken again, although......

Long as fandom's opportunity to make this happen is taken advantage of when the time's right as i've stated before. Or we'd be facing yet another uphill struggle after the movie and Universal gets fans badgering them for more BSG material to be made in the form of SE remastered Blu-Ray DVD's of the classic series. Kicking all those doors down to get the suits to listen, would be another mission once again. Can't see why once the Bryan Singer BSG film picks up, that several classic Galactica related projects (Remastered Series DVD's) wouldn't be the smartest move to make.

Only reason i keep making passonate suggestions like this, is to get everyone in agreement and onboard with a shared common interest we all want to see come true. Fandom can't operate on one "lone" individual by himself, can it?

KJ

KJ
September 29th, 2009, 04:48 PM
Does anyone have contact/address information for Glen Larson? The thought passed through my brain a couple times to send him copies of the fan edits, even as a thank you for the inspiration. Not sure if it would do anything toward a serious attempt at such a thing, but I don't think it would hurt anything. I of course would stress this was all for fan enjoyment and never in any way was money taken for this, or any claim to copyright... yada yada yada.

Let me know what you all think... would it be a good idea to send him copies?


Yep! Think so, it'll be a great idea. Adywan Star Wars edit, gotten out to several of the SW actors and crew i've heard as well as fans within the Hollywood circles etc.

Can't see why Larson shouldn't be given your BSG edits. They actually honor the classic series and its legacy, its a bonus that fans have beloved the original series after 30 plus years, not too many 1 season only television shows, can say the same thing, can they!

But you'd need to do some fancy BSG DVD covers for'em though! Presentation and everything would be killer, as to how great your package truly is!

Far as getting an official Remastered BSG series Blu-Ray HD-DVD's off the ground. If your serious, you need a thread/fourm of its own thus making it out to be something special and extraordinary. Allow it to be a forum where contacts are made and given to those who have industry, company hookups and whatnot, i.e. a place where fans can debate the DVD's content/extras with those who might be working on it (studio company) etc.

Larson being given the fanedited BSG DVD's might help if he take's an interest in his baby once again while doing the theatrical movie.

Far as the digital CGI being used in a professional level DVD SE project like this. It might not have to be, entirely all CGI added effects ala Star Trek Remastered?!

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=10898

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=15617

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=14879

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=15230

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=14832

Why not hire or get help from fans and modelers who have created replicas of the Galactica, Battlestars and Vipers of the original series. To use and put their models under the same or updated studio conditions/settings as the original was. And film all-new sequences for the SE remastered BSG DVD's, with actual models as well as CGI "mesh" replicas etc. With digital cameras and all their uses today with beauti-shots/passes etc. Creative new angles and model shots can be included in the SE of BSG with genuine models combined with the latest digital technology.

With a nameplate change, and you could easily have realistic model shots (no CGI) of all the Battlestars that were at Cimtar now! A newly-filmed formation shot of the 5 remaining Battlestars in the pilot etc, filmed with all-new angles and panning shots. And digital CGI shots would only compliment any newer filmed model shots in some respects, etc.

Just a thought.

Would be truly extraordinary. Costly too, but along those lines, a SE HD-DVD of BSG might turn heads and sell Blu-Ray DVD's of the classic series once again, by the bucket load. Universal should look at the sales of the previous DVD set and say its worth the gamble. And alot of the recent BSG footage (youtube) and whatnot, ought to be added in there as well.

Serious things to consider methinks! :cool:

So say we all? :D

KJ

Matador
September 30th, 2009, 09:36 PM
I'm really excited about all the interest in this.

I think using models is a great idea. Would save the time of modeling them in CG, unless someone has a fancy 3D scanner we can use to scan the models.

But we can totally greenscreen the models and then layer/composite them with the other ships and vipers. This will increase the dynamics.

Throw in a few more vipers and flybys. :rotf:

It would be cool to have members from original cast. Can probably use them for voiceovers to help extend scenes or figure out a way to place them in background, such as the scenes from Kralon, or is it spelled Caralon.:?:

We can include scene of the vipers taking off from the ground to attack the cyclons.

KJ
September 30th, 2009, 09:53 PM
Figured as much, since many modelers have made near perfect replicas of the Galactica/Battlestar design in recent years, and put up tons of links to them online.

Can't see that, if properly organised. That a BSG remastered series couldn't be as big if not bigger than Star Trek Remastered.

Still i think the key to the whole thing, is when hopefully, the Bryan Singer Battlestar Galactica directed movie takes off. Thus, the fanbase would have the ammunition to make a big enough and quite logical case then!

Matador, seriously tell the mods to make your thread a sticky. When the times right, it could be done and taken far more seriously. Right now all we'd have going for us is getting everyone onboard such a plan, and seeing where the dots connect (theories etc?).

It'll come to pass soon. Fingers crossed!

KJ

KJ
September 30th, 2009, 10:05 PM
P.S.

Don't get me wrong. Think using the old filming techniques would be imployed to great effect still. Long as fans got organised and lent their models for filming scenes in the remastered BSG (a dream come true surely?). Combined however with current CGI digital effects, fixing editing goofs (of various episodes), removing the stock footage of old 1978 SFX (once seen, not repeated per se etc ), adding a 5.1 Surround Audio Track (A MUST), restoring the deleted scenes per episode (barring some, The Long Patrol? etc) cos their no need to consider commercial air time, cos these would be especially made for the HD-DVD Blu-Ray release!

Done like that, next to the theatrical film. Everyone would get a double bonus of BSG material finally done right!

KJ

KJ
September 30th, 2009, 10:17 PM
We can include scene of the vipers taking off from the ground to attack the cyclons.

Much like DK has done with his edits.

I can imagine retooling pre-existing scenes, where some SFX can be spruce up and made to be something different in a BSG SE.

For example; The Carillion scene where the Vipers take off to stop the cylons from attacking the Galactica. That scene on the planet with its matte paintings could be retooled, to be a scene during the Colonial Holocaust when the Cylons attack the 12 Colonies.

That scene from Carillion could be used. Touched up with today's effects to keep the Vipers, and modify the matte painting etc. To be a Colonial Military Base or Outpost, where one of the attacking Baseships takes out the installation. Models of Vipers could be used and seen taking off (as you've said) and newer effects could be blended to show them moving off trying/failing to counterattack the Cylon's onslaught, from there on in.

Depending on how big a remastered BG would be. Footage of reaction shots from stand-ins playing roles in the SE, might even be used for close-ups?

No lack of imagination from us is there! :D:LOL:

KJ

David Kerin
October 1st, 2009, 06:31 AM
For a remastering I would not want all CGI replacing the originals, because those models and the work done was just beautiful. I think mixing and laying in more elements (but not going overboard like Lucas) would be a nice touch. A blend of original with properly matched CGI.

As for new shots being done with physical models, that would be great to see, but the expense of lighting, shooting and compositing a model with a motion control camera setup would probably be too expensive for the studio to actually consider. For the Star Trek TOS enhanced versions it would have been amazing to have a full scale model of the original Enterprise used, but the cost to do those shots right would be too much compared to the CGI... which can be expensive anyway. Though still more cost effective.

If it would be done, in whichever medium, I do think it is important that any new shots look like they properly mix with the style of the show and the time it was produced. I think the enhanced TOS Trek did a nice job of this.

Charybdis
October 1st, 2009, 08:44 AM
Personally, I wouldn't change a thing. I loved the show as it was, and to me, it should always be the same. I hate it when they go back and start tinkering around with the originals.

David Kerin
October 1st, 2009, 11:50 AM
Personally, I wouldn't change a thing. I loved the show as it was, and to me, it should always be the same. I hate it when they go back and start tinkering around with the originals.

I can completely understand that, even though I've done my own amount of tinkering. I don't mind it when things are added with the idea of what would they have done with the time and money... such as instead of reusing effects over and over what would they have put there.

When things are added/enhanced with a production, I still want the original to be there and not put aside like it doesn't matter anymore, as Lucas tried to ignore the theatrical cuts of the original trilogy after he sprayed his new effects all over them.

KJ
October 1st, 2009, 05:49 PM
True. Which is why i think it could be done in the manner i described! Using models and CGI. Models as in, getting the new replicas to be filmed, yet also have the highly detailed 'CGI meshes' also be used. But not the complete elimination of the original SFX though? Just sprucing them up quality grade wise i.e. 'brightness & contrast' would do, along with some advanced editing decisions with today's tools.

Filming and compositing any new Models with motion control camera setups, might be expensive, i don't know the 'black books' and management wise, how thats done in the studio and how much it'll cost and calulated. Long as everything was worked out should any SE remastering be undertaken by Universal Studios and licensed out by them to a FX-firm/company that could handle the remastering assignment, should this thing be given a greenlight by the studios etc. Like everyone else. Have a list of things could could be given a fairly decent facelift in a BSG SE, that wouldn't harm or hurt what came before, but only improve upon the storytelling and convey the action/drama moreso.

Reckon it'll be easy enough outlining a list of necessary things that could be done using models and elements that'll be conceivably added via CGI.

All this can be further discussed, should this be made into an official HD-DVD Blu-Ray project by Universal! right now we have little to go on, since its topic that fasinates us, but nothing we can professionally do at such a high standard without a studio's backing nor resources.

KJ

KJ
October 5th, 2009, 04:47 PM
Is there anyways to get somebody from Universal to read this thread?

If they aren't listening over there, perhaps some of them need to come here then. In the age of the internet, i find it hard to imagine, all these studio suits who drive about in fancy cars and have a fast connection online on their laptops and computers in their offices. Don't log online to internet forums, to check up on what people would really want if you gave it to them.

I don't believe that they have this rumored "belief", that you can't if your a suit/studio exec neither! Thinking it'll influence their decision making?!

THE BSG FANBASE WOULD LOVE TO SEE: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA REMASTERED. On Blu-Ray DVD in 5.1/7.1 Surround Sound. As a special edition set for the 21st Century. You gave us the original series back in 2003 when we thought it'll never get a regular DVD release. That time has passed and it sold well! (and we were very greatful too).

In light of Star Trek Remastered and other sci-fi classics, this is the next logical step!

Make it happen and we will buy/double dip for TOS BSG on Blu-Ray.

IT MUST BE A REMASTERED SE handled properly by the studio though! Spend the money (even if a little expensive?) and you'll make it back guaranteed!!!

KJ

David Kerin
October 5th, 2009, 06:55 PM
I think if this Bryan Singer version starts going through, and we see real development on it (which we've heard zilch since the Singer announcement), then maybe Universal would consider such a thing to build interest. Would it be with enhanced effects or just cleaned up video and audio for Bluray? Before the Singer movie comes out I could picture a cleaned up version. If the Singer movie comes out and is a huge hit showing faith to the original series, then maybe something more would happen with enhanced visuals.

Before the Singer movie I would honestly be surprised, or amazed, that Universal would budget real money for enhanced TOS Galactica. I think it would be great, but Universal has never treated TOS Galactica with respect. The only decent thing to come out from them was the TOS series DVD set and the bounty of extras, which Universal stopped doing for any other series they put out because it costs a little bit of money. If BSG was not the first of the Universal TV series DVD sets produced it would never have had the extras, documentary or commentary. Look at Buck Rogers or Galactica 1980... there are no deleted scenes stored away somewhere?

Maybe I'm just in an oddly negative mood or something right now... and maybe Universal will surprise us and give the old girl some respect.

KJ
October 11th, 2009, 09:16 AM
I think if this Bryan Singer version starts going through, and we see real development on it (which we've heard zilch since the Singer announcement), then maybe Universal would consider such a thing to build interest.

Agreed! I see it exactly the same way.

And don't worry your not in a overly negative mood. Just overly realistic i think.

If this isn't going to be a *sticky* anytime soon, then it ought to be a CFF prioritised movement when the time is right i.e. when the new BSG film totally becomes official through announcements and media related news events etc. A whole list of things fans can decide on would be noted reminder far as content goes.

But yes, long as the ammunition there (the BSG film being greenlit) then we could realistically vouch for this to happen. Still, would be nice doing a CFF style ad or poster with photoshopped art with pictures from your fanedits, could be used as examples of how this would pan out. And like the Star Trek Remastered boxset DVD's, a comparison between the original episode and remastered (albeit CGI from the fanedits) would be used to show how an official release would look.

We need something to truly stirr our imaginations until this does become a reality! BSG SE Remastered Series in HD-DVD Blu-Ray loaded with extras (plus the original 78' series) and any previously unreleased footage, i'm for it and its already got my vote!

KJ

peter noble
October 11th, 2009, 03:58 PM
>Cough!<

http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2009/10/08/coolest-cgi/

David Kerin
October 11th, 2009, 08:04 PM
That is really nice. Oh the possibilities of what can be done.

KJ
October 12th, 2009, 02:44 AM
Yeah, one possibility DK would be animated schematics/blueprints and cutaways into the TOS Battlestar's design frame, showing her inner working and where everything is layed out inside a Battlestar.

I'm even remembering that animated schematic from Star Trek: Enterprise, of the U.S.S. Defiant that got sent to the 'Mirror Universe'. A neat scene in part 2 had a sequence where the TOS ship, had a design schematic showing the inner workings of the ship (Constitution-class U.S.S. Federation Starship). Love for a remastered BG, to even capture that and have an animated sequence projected over the main bridge 'viewscreen' showing; video images, computerised-'text' or a design schematic on display, whatever ya know?

That vid looks so similar to DeSanto's Foundation BSG demo. Nice but kinda square around the landing bay pods. Which is why the models still have their uses in their overall shapes and lighting etc.

KJ

peter noble
October 12th, 2009, 04:42 AM
>Cough!<

http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2009/10/08/coolest-cgi/

And with sound: http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/Bishop37/?action=view&current=new_old_bsg3.flv

CaptainHawke
October 13th, 2009, 01:22 PM
wow!!! spot on!!! So great....

KJ
October 13th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Think this fits in here quite well, cos its on topic. (has this guy been reading this thread/forum, lol?)


Battlestar Galactica - The Complete Epic Series DVD Review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZka_0EJVwA&feature=related


Well thats the 2003 release, good review actually. If Universal need another BSG style event to kick off revitalised interest in another Battlestar Galactica DVD go around. Yeah i'd hope they'd go the HD-DVD Blu-Ray in 5.1/7.1 route.

An official remastered series of TOS Galactica, whats keeping you "Universal" from greenlighting it already?!

Cos fan edits going in the High Def route of remastering/colour correcting, is very hard if not totally awkward. Because of the tools needed to pull it off professionally.

Like i said got my own wishes for this to happen or albeit fanedits in mind. But i'd kill now for this to happen pretty soon. We're not sure if we'll even like where the planned Universal BSG film version might go. Least with a remastered TOS, it'll be presevered for future generations to come even moreso and provided that necessary *facelift* the classic series currently needs.

Absolutely love the 2003 BSG DVD release and always will. But even Star Trek Remastered looks better quality wise, than TOS BSG on DVD, cos it IS on Blu-Ray with extras. And classic Star Trek didn't start out with 5.1 surround soundtrack or improved audio, now did it?

And yes like the reviewer (Zaranyzerak) says. Next re-release DVD snapcase of BSG, ought to be less tighter, lol. And not be a two-sided DVD 'flipper' again.

KJ

KJ
October 14th, 2009, 12:33 PM
Hmmm despite myself, DK, Matador and a few others, a topic this great should've lured alot more members by now wanting many alot more fans and people to acknowledge this demand, as big a request as we know it to be.

This does require the recognition it truly deserves.

Thus....

After a few more people have shared their ideas, i'm going to make one final post in this debate and thread of Matador's. And put down a list a of requirements that a Remastered Battlestar Galactica Blu-Ray Series would benefit from. Hopefully if this does become a CFF (Colonial Fan Force) campaign, my ideas along with whomever else's would be used as a major *selling point* or example to the actual BSG HD-DVD revival project in mind, i.e. the concepts for Blu-Ray content itself as well as how to go about remastering it, the extras, commentaries, documentaries etc.

But i'd like to do a little research and get a few facts right, before writing up a list or so and petition out a statement of features we'd like to see in such a future Blu-Ray BSG re-release. Putting out valid technical details might actually show Universal Studios, that the fanbase/fans are at least quite competent in what they're asking for and how to go about it, than making half-baked or unrealistic requests all the time.

KJ's; BSG Remastered Series Blu-Ray HD-DVD boxset 'theorised' list and detailed 'studio request' statement coming soon...

Watch this space! ;) :salute:

KJ

Matador
October 27th, 2009, 09:52 PM
Thanks for all the input. I think I'll start working on a concept and see were it goes. Hope to see some of you at ComicCon2010.

KJ
December 14th, 2009, 02:50 PM
Want you all to know that i'll get to that BG Remastered list during Christmas or hopefully in the New Year 2010!

Kinda forgotten about it. But it'll be done, cos i want to research it properly and see if it'll lead to getting folks together on this issue.

We'll see.

Laters.

KJ

KJ
January 27th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Haven't forgotten about this!

Sorry i haven't put that Remastered list of things i was going through as we've all had something going on here that i feel is just as important as the original BG getting its official motion picture big screen treatment.

Hope i'll be able to put this up within a month or so. Don't want to make it out that i'm making photoshopped pics and whatnot to illustrate my points (i could?) as to why its taking so long. But i'm just realistically going over what an official attempt by the studio might offer up and what they should be aiming for in such a professional endeavor.

So give me a 'PM' buzz if you guys are seriously still pushing for this thing (Matador, TBC, DK, CaptainHawke) after the next 5 to 6 weeks if you don't back from me on here?! Days and weeks fly by when your alot older don't they, lol.

:D

Laters :cool: :salute:

KJ

KJ
May 6th, 2010, 10:53 AM
*Sigh* seems we have forgotten about this afterall? :(

Reckon we were excited due to the killer potential "tie-in" Universal could've had, if the BG movie news was good when it was forth coming etc. a BG Remastered would've been the realistic choice to go with. Much as i love this fanbase, we already know we're too far apart unlike the Trek or Star Wars franchises to be as organised as they are on something, however i'd like to still do the list of issues we could possibly address if this were to become viable.

DK's excellents edits serve as an inspiration surely, but even he couldn't be asked to redo every single episode with digital effects for fan edits that wouldn't go beyond the TOS Galactica fanbases. Think any CFF or fan project we might do for a remastered BG series being requested of Universal (i.e. the copyright owners of Galactica) would be to set an example of what might be achieved through a list or campaign grabbing their attention.

Can't say when, but i seriously (you know me) would like to get back on track with something BG-Remastered related soon, so i'd hope to put up a list with links and whatnot in a few short weeks time or so, of what we've previously talked about on here. To greatly illustrate my examples properly and to support Matador's thread, something we've talked about for years on here anyways.

The Bryan Singer BG movie was obviously the major "lynch-pin" we were hoping might've supported the efforts to a much greater extent etc with such a beleivable and realistic advantage taken "tie-in" right next to a major 'original series inspired' BG motion picture event taking place. But if we keep telling ourselves we shouldn't pin our hopes unnecessarily on the studios going ahead with a Galactica movie, such requests for a digitally remastered and restored original series on HD Blu-Ray DVD lies with the fans then, shouldn't it?

Please check back here again real soon, cos you all know KJ's want BG to go the "Star Trek remastered" route with classic series and i reckon if the fanbase was fully organised behind it and go a CFF effort with an ad campaign it'll create some much needed noise in that endeavour.

Be seeing you on this again, i hope? ;)

KJ

Eric Paddon
May 6th, 2010, 03:50 PM
I just have to say that as a matter of general principle, I am totally opposed to the concept of redoing FX for a series or a movie for that matter decades after the fact. To me, it violates the artistic integrity of the original effort when special FX that were not a part of the era the film was produced in suddenly get inserted in the middle of all this and serves ultimately to distract from the *story* itself being told. To me, the power of Saga comes from the manner in which the story unfolds and in which the actors do their part to get me to connect with things, and changing the FX sequences would only serve to deflect attention from that. This is why I was opposed to the SW special editions and why I will also never have anything to do with the Trek episodes tampered in this fashion.

Matador
May 6th, 2010, 09:31 PM
Hello,

Thought I would post some of my CG work. It's basic because I've been doing this on the side of my regular job... But I hope you like it.

Thruster light test.
http://www.youtube.com/danakinobi#p/a/u/1/cThC2FQh8SI

Teaser
http://www.youtube.com/danakinobi#p/a/u/0/VjeqqRel_hI

:yikes:

KJ
May 7th, 2010, 08:54 AM
With all due respect Eric, thats just probably YOU feeling so! And not the major majority feeling of everybody else who's an original series Galactica fan.

Special editions far as 'artistic integrity' go, and be 'bent' if such liberties are taken to either update and improve upon the original if touchups were made to them etc. If it were a matter of "general principle" as you say, then how do imagine Star Wars and Star Trek have survived and maintained their appeal for so long? Without their special editions/remastered cuts, they'd look pretty dated and out of touch much as folks try to deny it, they've reinvented themselves in various way from SE and remastered editions to spin offs, video games, merchandising etc to sustain their interests.

Battlestar Galactica as another popular/classic science fiction franchise and cult hit, doesn't have that luxury. and needs to regain its momentum by reinventing itself in this manner. Also by remastering its picture quality to HD and fixing the rough editing errors and haphazzard-ness of the editing styles of years gone by, it'll receive the necessary upgrades and keep its status within pop culture if he got these improvements. And its storylines if anything would be greatly imagined better yet by such a overhaul process or merely touching up the 'painting', metaphorically speaking!

DVD's 720p resolution compared to HD's 1080p is making even regular DVD picture quality look outdated almost. If any show is to survive, you should be for seeing that it'll survive to other forms of digital entertainment in the near future and not worry about whether or not a SE or remastering will ruin the series overall. It won't, long as the remastering process is handled by Larson and co or those that deeply care about the original series and its done properly with the right amount of due diligence put forth to it.

I love the original show, but even older shows have many inconsistencies that could be fixed with a SE or remastered effort. And Galactica has the advantage of being in a genre where that can easily happen if the support was there for it and it overall emphasized the importance of such a thing being a necessary step in keeping the old show viable as a cult classic and sustaining its interest for future generations. and making sure that HD upgrades keep the original untouched version intact as well along side remastered cuts of the episodes for the 21st century.

Lets not forget that on Blu-Ray the original Star Trek episodes are there intact, and you can flip between them using a DVD remote. Star Wars OT is on the 2007 limited edition DVD's although not remastered and without a 5.1 track (in 2.0 only?) nevertheless are present. Much as i'm for keeping the originals next to any SE, in time even the originals look dated and colourless and pale and you wonder, if it hasn't been for the SE, where exactly would the interest be in looking at the series/movie now? I remember reading in 1997 when the SW Special Editions were out, that John Dykstra wasn't in favor of Lucas' SE of Star Wars either? Don't think he's changed his opinion on that fact neither, BUT. Dykstra talented artist and special effects supervisor that he is, is but "one" voice in that opinion though. And coming from a man who bounced around from various productions back in the day, he might come across as somebody who didn't get along because of his opinions. Didn't he fall out with both Lucas at ILM and then later Larson at Apogee and leave both Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica for whatever personal reasons.

To each his own, and somebody's always going to have an opinion on something like this. But to me, if picture quality being improved upon and digital technology's ever growing etc and Battlestar Galactica and shows/movies like it are in that Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre, shouldn't it be kinda prudent for them to take advantage of the technology and be "enhanced" by it, so we can still enjoy it many decades from now?! Showing such lastability is a fantastic concept nobody could've seen and envisioned when these shows and films were done 30 plus years ago.

I centainly think BG needs to go the HD/remastered route in order to survive and be quite viewable for many more years beyond the VHS/film quality it was first shot on!

KJ

P.S. Don't know about you, but i love my 5.1 Surround Sound, 2.0 pales in comparison these days and now we even have 7.1 on PC's and some advanced 'Home Cinema' systems. Yeah let the neighbours complain lol, BG would benefit greatly from this improvement in the sound department "major league" style. And wrap us up truly in the excitement of the episodes playing in such a fashion now!

KJ
May 7th, 2010, 09:18 AM
Nice vids there Matador. :cool: :thumbsup:

Think its neat you've gone for that Airforce fighter plane "sound" echoing through the landing bay. And Battlestar landing bays with opening metallic hatches on your other vids, hmmmm?

Interesting! :smart:

I gotta do something creative myself this year, but i'll probably go the editing route instead with Adobe After Effects or Adobe Premiere Pro programmes etc. Remember to layer your CGI meshes with a photorealistic skin afterwards.

Then again what programmes are you using.

Here hope this link helps you out some.

http://videocopilot.net/tutorials/

Andrew Kramer's tutorials over there are great to listen to and learn from and he does so much with one segment of a CGI program its incredible. Like i said hope it helps. Please ask DK and Titon for others links to CGI stuff i've put up on here. Heck, i need to ask titon about that magazine one i put up ages ago, been looking for a CGI/artist book that has guides and creatively produced pictures, it too might be helpful to you.

KJ

P.S. Try this one as well at ImagineFX

http://www.imaginefx.com/

Laters! :salute:

gmd3d
May 7th, 2010, 09:33 AM
With all due respect Eric, thats just probably YOU feeling so! And not the major majority feeling of everybody else who's an original series Galactica fan.

Special editions far as 'artistic integrity' go, and be 'bent' if such liberties are taken to either update and improve upon the original if touchups were made to them etc. If it were a matter of "general principle" as you say, then how do imagine Star Wars and Star Trek have survived and maintained their appeal for so long? Without their special editions/remastered cuts, they'd look pretty dated and out of touch much as folks try to deny it, they've reinvented themselves in various way from SE and remastered editions to spin offs, video games, merchandising etc to sustain their interests.

Battlestar Galactica as another popular/classic science fiction franchise and cult hit, doesn't have that luxury. and needs to regain its momentum by reinventing itself in this manner. Also by remastering its picture quality to HD and fixing the rough editing errors and haphazzard-ness of the editing styles of years gone by, it'll receive the necessary upgrades and keep its status within pop culture if he got these improvements. And its storylines if anything would be greatly imagined better yet by such a overhaul process or merely touching up the 'painting', metaphorically speaking!

DVD's 720p resolution compared to HD's 1080p is making even regular DVD picture quality look outdated almost. If any show is to survive, you should be for seeing that it'll survive to other forms of digital entertainment in the near future and not worry about whether or not a SE or remastering will ruin the series overall. It won't, long as the remastering process is handled by Larson and co or those that deeply care about the original series and its done properly with the right amount of due diligence put forth to it.

I love the original show, but even older shows have many inconsistencies that could be fixed with a SE or remastered effort. And Galactica has the advantage of being in a genre where that can easily happen if the support was there for it and it overall emphasized the importance of such a thing being a necessary step in keeping the old show viable as a cult classic and sustaining its interest for future generations. and making sure that HD upgrades keep the original untouched version intact as well along side remastered cuts of the episodes for the 21st century.

Lets not forget that on Blu-Ray the original Star Trek episodes are there intact, and you can flip between them using a DVD remote. Star Wars OT is on the 2007 limited edition DVD's although not remastered and without a 5.1 track (in 2.0 only?) nevertheless are present. Much as i'm for keeping the originals next to any SE, in time even the originals look dated and colourless and pale and you wonder, if it hasn't been for the SE, where exactly would the interest be in looking at the series/movie now? I remember reading in 1997 when the SW Special Editions were out, that John Dykstra wasn't in favor of Lucas' SE of Star Wars either? Don't think he's changed his opinion on that fact neither, BUT. Dykstra talented artist and special effects supervisor that he is, is but "one" voice in that opinion though. And coming from a man who bounced around from various productions back in the day, he might come across as somebody who didn't get along because of his opinions. Didn't he fall out with both Lucas at ILM and then later Larson at Apogee and leave both Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica for whatever personal reasons.

To each his own, and somebody's always going to have an opinion on something like this. But to me, if picture quality being improved upon and digital technology's ever growing etc and Battlestar Galactica and shows/movies like it are in that Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre, shouldn't it be kinda prudent for them to take advantage of the technology and be "enhanced" by it, so we can still enjoy it many decades from now?! Showing such lastability is a fantastic concept nobody could've seen and envisioned when these shows and films were done 30 plus years ago.

I centainly think BG needs to go the HD/remastered route in order to survive and be quite viewable for many more years beyond the VHS/film quality it was first shot on!

KJ

I would agree with you on this ,, I would go to cgi for it .. there is a lot of talent here for that . its easier to do for a start. all you need is a PC. some decent RAM and Memory.. the Galactica model in cgi . there are a few .. most have been posted here at some stage in WIP form and some are completed ..

to use a real model your going to have to start spending money. even cheaply its still going to cost some cash and thatīs not going to be ponied
up at this present time by any company or even fans based donations for it would be very tough.

I have see efforts over the last year alone.

Fan based effort is possibly the only way and it will have to be CGI ..

and when you come to that why redo all the effects to look exactly the same when most where reuses of the same stock. while I enjoy the show alot the reused effects are tiresome and near boring.

anyway the meat of the show is the character . like original Star Trek and Star Wars they are strong and hold up well.

so adding new effects would be an added benefit.

I liked new effect in star wars and Trek. (except Solo shooting second)

BSG Classic is in need of new effect.

yes they hold up well but still need a reworking

KJ
May 7th, 2010, 11:01 AM
I would agree with you on this ,, I would go to cgi for it .. there is a lot of talent here for that . its easier to do for a start. all you need is a PC. some decent RAM and Memory.. the Galactica model in cgi . there are a few .. most have been posted here at some stage in WIP form and some are completed ..

to use a real model your going to have to start spending money. even cheaply its still going to cost some cash and thatīs not going to be ponied
up at this present time by any company or even fans based donations for it would be very tough.

I have see efforts over the last year alone.

Fan based effort is possibly the only way and it will have to be CGI ..

and when you come to that why redo all the effects to look exactly the same when most where reuses of the same stock. while I enjoy the show alot the reused effects are tiresome and near boring.


Thank you so much Taranis for you vouch of support in this debate! :thumbsup: :salute:

Unlike Star Trek remastered, if fans could get organised to do this big time. i seriously hope those fans with replica BG models could lend their scale models for the remastered BG (fan produced) version shoot! CGI great, but even with the most up to date photorealistic meshes/skins on ships and whatnot models are still great for that touch of class and nostalgia as Eric's pointing out for us.

He's got a different opinion from many on this, but he cares enough to keep BG classic and untouched somewhat. Reckon that would happen with the original episodes held on Blu-Ray discs next to a brand new remastered version of the Galactica episodes. Seeing as Blu-Ray holds alot of data encoded on them, both original and remastered episodes could easily be held on Blu-Ray discs with sharp HD picture quality for both. The original can even be colour-timed so it holds up much longer.

And if the remastered episodes would restore deleted footage back into their original context within their individual episodes, they'd benefit from a remastered and re-rendered HD process surely.

But yeah Taranis as discussed earlier on this thread, CGI along with possibly some model shots though. Surely many professionally fan replicas are studio perfect in details that they'd be shot more-or-less the same as the original Galactica was by Apogee. Only you could imploy vast 'camera pans' what they didn't use in the '78 series and use wider camera shots of "beauty passes" and yawn and pitches of the camera on a mounted frame and get more epic vistas shots of ships etc (*). CGI ones can be added in post-production and whatnot!

If i remember correctly even Richard Hatch even thought of re-doing TOS effects of Battlestar as a Star Wars inspired SE when he was pitching BG:The Second Coming to Universal when classic Battlestar Galactica wasn't on DVD yet. Well, at first universal did put a BG DVD, but it was barebones? Then we heard news of the Australian region 4 version being used as a template for a remastered DVD (720p resolution) release back in 2000/02 before news of the BG 2003 came about?

Yeah we've been down this road several times, but if it leads to us doing it ourselves i'd be for it.

Hard work ahead and alot of discussions way before then i reckon. If we had Universal's supporting us and we had their/Larson's permission and they backed us with studio help, we'd have the perfect eam right here i think to do BG remastered justice! We could also avoid all the pitfalls Star Trek remastered and The Star Wars special Editions had!

Here's a little inspiration for what we (fan edit) or an official release would have to go through (wanted to use this as a clip in my *list* originally?).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fso13UR_jig

1:14 Relates to my camera angles arguement perfectly*

Think that guys comments about the original series storylines remaining the same reflects my opinions too Eric!

KJ

Matador
May 7th, 2010, 11:30 AM
Nice vids there Matador. :cool: :thumbsup:

Think its neat you've gone for that Airforce fighter plane "sound" echoing through the landing bay. And Battlestar landing bays with opening metallic hatches on your other vids, hmmmm?

Interesting!

Thanks KJ... It was a lot of work put into it... I can see why they have several people working on one thing at CG production companies.

Anyhew, the doors, to me, I believe were probably invisioned to be there originally, but due to cost were left out. I always felt this was what Larson meant to show, when the Vipers launched.

I use 3Ds Max... I thought about using Maya, but I've invested so much time into max... I think I will stick with it, until some effects company hires me to work for them... (in my dreams).

There's more to come and stay tuned.

Thanks for the links... I'll check them out later.

monolith21
May 7th, 2010, 12:06 PM
I was totally against tampering with any show or movie from the past based solely on the Star Wars special editions. Then I saw the Star Trek episodes done recently and that attitude changed. Mostly because they didn't try to replace the old episodes but simply make new ones to go along with them. Plus they made sure the effects matched the era which looks great!

The added effects on Star Wars stick out like a sore thumb. Not so on the Star Trek episodes. If Battlestar was handled in a similar fashion I could really get into it!

gmd3d
May 7th, 2010, 12:10 PM
I also think its important to keep to the spirit and the feel of the original show take Star Trek TMP Directors Cut .. Robert Wise never got the opportunity to view it before its release. the effects at the time where breath taking. and he had foundation Imaging to rework the effects and add slightly new angles.

keeping the look and feel perfectly down to the image noise on the film.

BSG should have the same to keep it as you say fresh


also

there is a damn good CGI model of the Galactica available already

made by Folkrm

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15996

others been built

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17315

made by maudib

and I also think that the scaling errors should also be looked at. in CGI this is possible. other ship easier still .. I posted the Celestra here some years ago it was my second model I built, it good for distance shots . or could be reworked.

if you film the shots as is in the show (the reused one) it would be a waste an effort

KJ
May 7th, 2010, 03:29 PM
I'm back. Was going to stick around to answer and put some more questions down, but had to go off and watch Lost on Sky TV tonight i.e. a repeat showing for me!

Anyways back on track, yeah i'd say Robert Wise's ST:TMP is a fine example of SE done right. Its got a different audio effect track mind you, but its been enhanced as a updated Star Trek was expected to look and feel etc. Star Wars SE while a little controversial did fix some necessary issues with the older film and update and repair what was needed in the right areas (Yavin 4 Base exterior, X-Wing Vs Tie-Fighter battle) and so forth. And as we all know, its failing were the main selling point for editor Adywan to fix up and do the SW SE films properly through fan determination and love of the OT.

And Adywan isn't a CGI hog himself neither but is simply going about improving the Star Wars films where the SE should've.

Anybody checked out his recent clip of his Bespin approach yet?.....

Adywan's Empire: Revisited - Bespin Approach [ Vaderios Split Screen ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAPNuxqOreI

Love the pan, but i hope he keeps it to a minimum seeing as too much digital tweaks might be what the naysayers are clearly worried about.

If we were to whack up this list however; just how many tweaked or re-edits are going about improving Sci-fi shows/films exactly?

* Star Wars/Empire Revisted

* Star Trek Remastered

* Red Dwarf SE/updated

* Space 2099 (recently)

* Several Dr Who original series episodes/stories (The Five Doctors, The Black Guardian Saga/Trilogy)


Wouldn't mind added Battlestar to the list to be honest! Cos mostly none of those others are opting for a HD Blu-Ray treatment (except ST:R), which any official recut would opt for in light of the Blu-Ray format taking off now!

I'd also like to add, the fact that other SE/remastered cuts suffered from lack of any real budget or time necessary to do them proper justice leading to wasted opportunities (Superman 2: The Richard Donner Cut). If fans were to do their own project together remastering BG with any connections and resources, at work for example, with the right tools (PC, Mac etc?).

We'd have to set up some goals to avoid those pitfalls.

For example...

1) No stone left unturned.

2) Necessary time alotted for the pieces to come together. ragtag crew of fans willing, fans support (from the fanbase), organisation/resources of those with connections, outline of what to do and plan of events etc.

3) Resources, i.e. PC software at everybody's disposal.

4) No limitations on whats possible. If some new 3D tech comes out while we're doing the project, have it investigated. Check up on new and possible Home Cinema hardware tech (and in that home cinema's website might be of soem use to enquire about any advancements)

5) Physical Models i.e. BG series replicas that are film camera worthy. That once "lit" can easily be shot, and look identical to the '78 SFX BG Apogee shots and slightly improve upon them (i.e. all new camera pans, angles and shots etc).

6) CFF Ad campaign once again. If this were to be a major fan endeavour! This fanbase was such alive when they did these things, if this fanbase is fans doing projects for the majority of fans and sci-fi afictionardos, then why not inspire ourselves with this thing!

7) Get Glen Larson or Tom DeSanto involved. Some "pull" behind the fan efforts behind this project would be incredible. Much better yet, get the fella who got all the DVD extras content for the 2003 DVD's onboard this project and see if he can help with obtaining the stuff that didn't make the complete DVD's set the first time around?!?

8.) Bigger Blu-Ray/DVD media release coverage! Unlike the 2003 DVD's, if this became official, then i reckon like the Star Trek Remastered behind-the-scenes clips, this would need to get lots of attention, if the money were there for the project too. And push this thing with interviews and somebody shooting some fly-on-the-wall documentary footage, thus showing the public the interest this should be getting and how big of an event fans could make it.

9) Bonus features. Discussed earlier on here by myself and others in various threads regarding Galactica and another DVD re-release. - Much needed and not a repeat of the previous 2003 DVD set.

10) Packaging. Fan produced or an official release. We're creative, we got this one right??? Save the best til last as they say!

All i know is, save a bit of "cash" to hire Drew Struzan or Frank Frazetta to do the Blu-Ray cover in killer art! lol, and if not any of them, then go to ComicCon and hire a decent comic book artist or painter. Think big, and have bigger ambitions i reckon!

;)

KJ

Eric Paddon
May 7th, 2010, 08:18 PM
With all due respect Eric, thats just probably YOU feeling so! And not the major majority feeling of everybody else who's an original series Galactica fan.

I don't think there's been a scientific study of the matter. Regardless, I am opposed to the idea completely, because to me it is a matter of general principle that to do this harms completely the integrity of the original work. As far as I'm concerned the only reason why George Lucas so obsessively tinkered with the original trilogy is because that speaks volumes to his general obsession with FX over storytelling and the fact that he doesn't have much confidence in the story to carry the day. For me, a true special edition would involve restoring scenes cut that had to do with enhancing the characters and not giving us a pointless scene from a storytelling standpoint (the Jabba one) that just recapitulates word for word the same dialogue we had in the Greedo scene, and then becomes an excuse to say "Look there, I stuck Boba Fett in!"

Films IMO are not supposed to be tinkered with out of the context of the time they were created in and the same should apply to TV series. If Galactica did the same thing, they would get the same attention from me that the tinkered Trek episodes get from me which is zero. I watch Galactica because the stories interest me and the stories aren't going to be changed one iota by FX sequences that clash with the interior set designs, costuming etc. that were made in another era altogether.

And let's carry this arugment to the non-scifil realm. Should "Gone With The Wind" and "The Wizard Of Oz" be altered with modern CGI FX for the sake of being "with it" with a new generation of audiences, or should the power of what they did at the time they were made in with the tools that were available in that time be respected? I am emphatically for the latter and just as the idea of a CGI enhanced burning of Atlanta would make me cringe, so too would the prospect of seeing the Galactica I have never become bored with over the yahrens altered make me cringe as well. Let Galactica's merits as a fine piece of storytelling in the era it was produced carry the day with its ability to connect with future generations.

Or let's cite another example. Which version of "King Kong" is still going to remembered as a classic a generation from now? The 1933 one with its "dated" special FX or Jackson's bloated 2005 CGI self-indulgence that was one of the most boring times of my life in a theater? That to me, sums it up as to why CGI has nothing to do with whether or not a film from the past is worthy of being called a classic or not. It's the story and the acting and the directing that carries the day ultimately. To suggest otherwise IMO cheapens the integrity of the original product (this is also why I'm opposed to replacing musical scores with new scores composed decades after the fact as was done on the expanded version of the 1965 western "Major Dundee")

Now I'll admit, that speaking as one whose training is in the world of history and archiving, the matter of preserving the *original* work that was created at the time does matter a good deal to me from a professional standpoint, and I fear that Lucas's self-indulgent obsession means that future generations will never get to see Star Wars as I first experienced it, and when it was frankly a much better film. Instead, we have seen Star Wars irrevocably damaged for the sake of synching up to some lousy films Lucas made two decades later that represented the triumph of CGI over good storytelling because there wasn't even a decent remastering of the original version done.

monolith21
May 7th, 2010, 09:08 PM
And let's carry this arugment to the non-scifil realm. Should "Gone With The Wind" and "The Wizard Of Oz" be altered with modern CGI FX for the sake of being "with it" with a new generation of audiences, or should the power of what they did at the time they were made in with the tools that were available in that time be respected?

I am emphatically for the latter and just as the idea of a CGI enhanced burning of Atlanta would make me cringe, so too would the prospect of seeing the Galactica I have never become bored with over the yahrens altered make me cringe as well. Let Galactica's merits as a fine piece of storytelling in the era it was produced carry the day with its ability to connect with future generations.


I agree with a lot of what you're saying here, however the "Gone with the Wind" etc. analogy doesn't quite work for me. Some things lend themselves to "tinkering" and some don't. Sci Fi has that uniqueness to it that many other genres do not.

The thing that particularly would lend itself where Galactica relates is the stock footage. I've never gotten sick of the original either, but I would love to see those battles from other angles for sure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for destroying the originals. I do not believe one should replace the other. Just like they did with Star Trek, I think it would just be for a new viewing experience. When I watch Star Trek I usually watch the originals, but I was really into those enhanced episodes when they came out.

Eric Paddon
May 7th, 2010, 09:31 PM
Then I guess where we part company is that I don't regard sci-fi as anymore special a genre from a filmmaking standpoint than any other one that has required what we call "special effects" to tell part of its story. "The Ten Commandments" is not what we call a "sci-fi" movie, but its strength lay in the fact that Cecil B. DeMille used the tools of his time to sell the illusion of the Red Sea parting. But even when we consider the world of sci-fi, are we honestly going to be doing this tinkering with films from an even earlier era like "Forbidden Planet" and "War Of The Worlds"? If anything, I look at these films and TV shows from an earlier era with their limitiations and find that when there are limits, it has the effect of making me think more about the *story*, in effect getting me to use my imagination more and let my mind be sucked into the reality of the setting that the actors, writers and director have created. The limited FX of the day becomes a conceit I can accept simply because the compensation is stronger on the other end, which are the elements today's CGI-laden movies have IMO totally forgotten how to do properly. So perhaps I suffer from an instinctive dislike of CGI simply because I associate it with a style of storytelling I've come to have no use for as I get older.

The only restorations I approve of are when movies that were cut down from their original roadshow cuts are then restored back to their original versions as we saw with "Lawrence Of Arabia" or "The Alamo" because that's using the materials that were made *in that era* and giving us the kind of viewing experience that those who first experienced those films got to see. The end product is enhanced but remains a product of its time.

gmd3d
May 8th, 2010, 03:25 AM
Sci-fi for me presents a larger and broader canvas than other story types.

CGI is just a tool to enhance the visuals fix the errors that are present in the original film.

The Special Effect in the Classic BSG Series are now showing their age.. and are now dull and repetitive and need revitalization and thatīs how I see it. and new effect will only enhance the viewing experience.

When I got the DVD set I was disappointed that the effect where not improved at all. and what was done is rubbish showing more errors that ruin the look for the movie.

Lucas knows this and has over time reworked his original Star Wars saga keeping it fresh and exciting and is still making money from it.

He also did Indiana Jones films .. to my knowledge they have not been touched or reworked with special effect for they donīt need it.

CGI is the way to go for BSG.

Eric Paddon
May 8th, 2010, 10:15 AM
Sci-fi for me presents a larger and broader canvas than other story types.

CGI is just a tool to enhance the visuals fix the errors that are present in the original film.

I don't agree with the presumption that what was the top of the line for its day and a giant leap ahead of the age of "Forbidden Planet" (where's the clamoring to redo that one where the look is more "dated"?) constitutes an "error".

When I got the DVD set I was disappointed that the effect where not improved at all. and what was done is rubbish showing more errors that ruin the look for the movie.

What I saw for the first time was a quality release that restored the episodes to the brilliance they demonstrated in 1978 and were presented "uncut* in contrast to first the beat-up 16mm prints used in syndication repeats throughout the 1980s and then the cleaned-up but hacked versions from the Sci-Fi Channel, loaded with more extra content than any other TV series of the day has gotten on DVD, which says a lot.

Lucas knows this and has over time reworked his original Star Wars saga keeping it fresh and exciting and is still making money from it.

I again do not accept that premise. If anything, I believe that Lucas's tinkering with SW is generally more a cover for the fact that he hasn't had one fresh idea as a writer/director since SW.

gmd3d
May 8th, 2010, 12:28 PM
I don't agree with the presumption that what was the top of the line for its day and a giant leap ahead of the age of "Forbidden Planet" (where's the clamoring to redo that one where the look is more "dated"?) constitutes an "error".



What I saw for the first time was a quality release that restored the episodes to the brilliance they demonstrated in 1978 and were presented "uncut* in contrast to first the beat-up 16mm prints used in syndication repeats throughout the 1980s and then the cleaned-up but hacked versions from the Sci-Fi Channel, loaded with more extra content than any other TV series of the day has gotten on DVD, which says a lot.



I again do not accept that premise. If anything, I believe that Lucas's tinkering with SW is generally more a cover for the fact that he hasn't had one fresh idea as a writer/director since SW.

I believe that this is wrong approach for BSG and its not presumption but a current fact that most movies are been reworked and reinvented.. we have seen the BSG one and it split the fanbase in two.

Classic Star Trek had a face lift (I got them)
Classic Star Wars Had a face lift (I got them)
improved DVD sales: yes you bet they did

Classic Battlestar Galactica
No new effect just enhanced some what .. and disappointing so.
.. not as mush as it would if the Effect where improved and expanded
as it needs. if it was done and done properly I would by a new DVD set no problem.

I would not rework or redo the forbidden planet as it simply does not need it.
it is a product of its time.

BSG series need new effects . up dated effect at the least the reuse of the same effects is tiresome and boring .. and I have watch my DVD set a few time and it what bothers me the most.


In the Movie the Galactica model support beam is seen in some effect.. in the new DVDs too ..and to be honest it destroyed the whole experience of the film.

Lucas is a better sales man than Universal or who ever owns the Classic show. and I disagree that Lucas is short of ideas ..

but I believe that without a refreshing effects for the classic BSG the appeal of the show will wither.

Donīt get me wrong I like the show a lot and as much as Star Trek and Star Wars.

Eric Paddon
May 8th, 2010, 12:49 PM
I would not rework or redo the forbidden planet as it simply does not need it.
it is a product of its time.

And so should all other films and TV shows be so recognized. Galactica was as much a product of its time as Star Trek was of the late 1960s and in fact to see Trek gussied up in a way to try and suggest it is NOT a product of the late 1960s strikes me as being dishonest. Maybe we should also have the lines about World Wars from the 1990s being redubbed as wel to further sell the illusionl?

In the Movie the Galactica model support beam is seen in some effect.. in the new DVDs too ..and to be honest it destroyed the whole experience of the film.

"King Kong" from 1933 still used obvious back projection by today's standards but I don't see anyone suggesting a CGI makeover and Jacksonizing the original would improve that.

Lucas is a better sales man than Universal or who ever owns the Classic show. and I disagree that Lucas is short of ideas ..

If Lucas were a font of ideas, then his creative output since Star Wars would be a lot more than "Howard The Duck", "Radioland Murders" and a series of not very stellar prequel movies. For 25 years since ROTJ he can be said to have done nothing but coast on the original SW trilogy by concocting all kinds of ways to repackage the only thing that ever brought him big money. That makes him a smart capitalist, but a creative genius with a knack for quality storytelling it isn't.

gmd3d
May 8th, 2010, 01:03 PM
And so should all other films and TV shows be so recognized. Galactica was as much a product of its time as Star Trek was of the late 1960s and in fact to see Trek gussied up in a way to try and suggest it is NOT a product of the late 1960s strikes me as being dishonest. Maybe we should also have the lines about World Wars from the 1990s being redubbed as wel to further sell the illusionl?



"King Kong" from 1933 still used obvious back projection by today's standards but I don't see anyone suggesting a CGI makeover and Jacksonizing the original would improve that.



If Lucas were a font of ideas, then his creative output since Star Wars would be a lot more than "Howard The Duck", "Radioland Murders" and a series of not very stellar prequel movies.

yes Star Trek was a product of its time and was still reworked as it has a massive fan base for it to appeal too. Forbidden Planet would not have that kind of fan base at all.... both Trek and Wars have inherited new fans in recent years a new generations have come on board,

Classic BSG still attracts new fans and possibly one the strength of the new show too so the market is still there. ready to go

Lucas did create Indiana Jones films also very successful along with Star Wars. and other stories too . so I donīt agree with this
If Lucas were a font of ideas, then his creative output since Star Wars would be a lot more than "Howard The Duck", "Radioland Murders" and a series of not very stellar prequel movies.
I liked the prequelīs Star wars for the most part. :D

I respect your opinion on the subject but I still think as it stands it will hurt it in the future .. and will look dated compared to the epic story. I think it started to hurt now . as I watched it again today and I still think it needs new effects ...

Eric Paddon
May 8th, 2010, 01:22 PM
yes Star Trek was a product of its time and was still reworked as it has a massive fan base for it to appeal too.

The massive fan base already existed. I'm not buying the argument that this was what was needed to rejuvenate interest in Trek anymore than I'd buy the argument that tampering with the original SW trilogy was needed to rejuvenate interest and appreciation for those films. When we can see movies from the 30s still have long-term appeal *exactly* the way they were first made, we should have enough faith in the storytelling ability of the originals in Sci-Fi to do the same. Because to do otherwise is to suggest somehow that the contributions of the actors/writers and director is somehow less important to the strength of the material than the FX. For me, Galactica's long-term reasonance is rooted entirely in my greater appreciation for what was done in the storytelling beyond the FX that was done in the best possible way for the time it was made in but which needed those other elements to stand out.

Lucas did create Indiana Jones films also very successful along with Star Wars. and other stories too . so I donīt agree with this

Without Spielberg, I doubt very much those end up to be big moneymakers. The bottom line is that if Lucas were really such a great creative genius he would have kept writing and directing more works of great originality over a 25 year span than what does have his name on it. Cecil B. DeMille he isn't.

I respect your opinion on the subject but I still think as it stands it will hurt it in the future .. and will look dated compared to the epic story. I think it started to hurt now . as I watched it again today and I still think it needs new effects ...

As things turned out, "Miracle On 34th Street" and "It's A Wonderful Life" didn't need colorization to endure as classics. If we really have faith in what Galactica was able to do on its own, then let the work stand on its own like all other films and TV shows are supposed to do. Sci-Fi does not deserve to be treated as a separate category from all other genres of cinematic storytelling.

gmd3d
May 8th, 2010, 01:48 PM
The massive fan base already existed. I'm not buying the argument that this was what was needed to rejuvenate interest in Trek anymore than I'd buy the argument that tampering with the original SW trilogy was needed to rejuvenate interest and appreciation for those films. When we can see movies from the 30s still have long-term appeal *exactly* the way they were first made, we should have enough faith in the storytelling ability of the originals in Sci-Fi to do the same. Because to do otherwise is to suggest somehow that the contributions of the actors/writers and director is somehow less important to the strength of the material than the FX. For me, Galactica's long-term reasonance is rooted entirely in my greater appreciation for what was done in the storytelling beyond the FX that was done in the best possible way for the time it was made in but which needed those other elements to stand out.



Without Spielberg, I doubt very much those end up to be big moneymakers. The bottom line is that if Lucas were really such a great creative genius he would have kept writing and directing more works of great originality over a 25 year span than what does have his name on it. Cecil B. DeMille he isn't.



As things turned out, "Miracle On 34th Street" and "It's A Wonderful Life" didn't need colorization to endure as classics. If we really have faith in what Galactica was able to do on its own, then let the work stand on its own like all other films and TV shows are supposed to do. Sci-Fi does not deserve to be treated as a separate category from all other genres of cinematic storytelling.

Well I disagree with you on this matter,,and I never said anything about rejuvenating interest in these show. as that the new effects in these shows enhanced the viewing experience. modernizing them for new generations

what I am talking about is to do with cleaning up the errors in the effects of BSG they can be shot with the same views and aspects if that what people want .. but should be fixed .. it take away from the film and show.
Like in Star Trek TMP ... it enhanced the viewing experience and took nothing way from it and added every thing to it. imo

Bottom line for me is that the effect need to be reworked and improved .. and that's my view on it and it been that way for some time.

KJ
May 8th, 2010, 06:42 PM
I don't agree with the presumption that what was the top of the line for its day and a giant leap ahead of the age of "Forbidden Planet" (where's the clamoring to redo that one where the look is more "dated"?) constitutes an "error".



What I saw for the first time was a quality release that restored the episodes to the brilliance they demonstrated in 1978 and were presented "uncut* in contrast to first the beat-up 16mm prints used in syndication repeats throughout the 1980s and then the cleaned-up but hacked versions from the Sci-Fi Channel, loaded with more extra content than any other TV series of the day has gotten on DVD, which says a lot.


I again do not accept that premise. If anything, I believe that Lucas's tinkering with SW is generally more a cover for the fact that he hasn't had one fresh idea as a writer/director since SW.


I believe that this is wrong approach for BSG and its not presumption but a current fact that most movies are been reworked and reinvented.. we have seen the BSG one and it split the fanbase in two.

Classic Star Trek had a face lift (I got them)
Classic Star Wars Had a face lift (I got them)
improved DVD sales: yes you bet they did

Classic Battlestar Galactica
No new effect just enhanced some what .. and disappointing so.
.. not as mush as it would if the Effect where improved and expanded
as it needs. if it was done and done properly I would by a new DVD set no problem.

I would not rework or redo the forbidden planet as it simply does not need it.
it is a product of its time.

BSG series need new effects . up dated effect at the least the reuse of the same effects is tiresome and boring .. and I have watch my DVD set a few time and it what bothers me the most.


In the Movie the Galactica model support beam is seen in some effect.. in the new DVDs too ..and to be honest it destroyed the whole experience of the film.

Lucas is a better sales man than Universal or who ever owns the Classic show. and I disagree that Lucas is short of ideas ..

but I believe that without a refreshing effects for the classic BSG the appeal of the show will wither.

Donīt get me wrong I like the show a lot and as much as Star Trek and Star Wars.


Believe and support what your saying Taranis 100% Well said :thumbsup:


Mr Paddon quit the procrastination seriously, take a look at the thread since you've posted? :( :wtf:

If you disagree with everybody on Matador thread fair enough. But this isn't leading anywhere, when you drag this out about how you don't agree on a topic most of us are interested in. We're trying to take this beyond mere debating and into something worthwhile if the Galactica fanbase moved in this direction or if fans support it enough to make a official campaign. Its one thing to disagee its another to to drag down somebody else's thread harpng on about how you don't like it nor see the point etc etc. Thats been said enough times. I saw you and Taranis having having a few barbs this morning from my clock, then early this afternoon i could've said one thing in a reply or so but figured i've said enough so far and let everybody else talk it out, and went out cos i had things doing in town today!

I didn't expect to comeback and catch an irregular thread fallout with too much arguing, especially in this thread which i've asked the mods to make into a "sticky" and to be put into the; "Shattered Worlds" projects thread instead. So please lets quit the B.S., you've made your statements quite clear enough, however this isn't going anywhere's. Much as i like giving Lucas a good *bashing* online, i will also admit the Star Wars SE have their plus points too. Going in circles with this isn't doing us any favors whatsoever and Matador's thread should really stay on topic. There's really nothing you can add by disgreeing but yet continue dragging a thread down into arguing with a set of viewpoints, others are not going to agree with and follow nor latch onto cos they have a different point-of-view and wish to see the topic at hand be come a reality (hopefully).

Seriously, and thats a point of fact and plain good manners in letting Matador's thread be talked about by those that DO share opinions that are beneficial and 'are' of the same viewpoints in general which lead the discussion into going somewhere's.

You shouldn't really be here if your aren't on the same boat as it were or don't enjoy the level of banter we're trying to see that'll grow into something that might work or be of a worthwhile endeavour! I understand you like discussions, but for Matador's sake can we please not let this thread descent into absurdities about whether or not "A Remastered BG" is a good or bad thing? Especially when its only you sharing that point with others on here.

For real, for Matty and everybody else's sake no drawn out arguing please. No "ego" crap in this thread.

KJ

Dawg
May 8th, 2010, 07:27 PM
Oddly enough, as much of a fan as I am of the current SFX of Transformers, Iron Man, Avatar, etc., I find myself in much agreement with Eric's stand. I'll admit I enjoyed the Star Wars special edition releases, but the films themselves lost much of their original charm and impact with the tinkering.

To "upgrade" an original needs to be carefully considered before being attempted. In 99% of the cases, the answer should be "no."

However, BG may - and I emphasize the "may" - be within that 1% that would benefit from remastering the SFX. But to be successful, they must have the exact right hand on the helm, and not do what Lucas did with Star Wars.

Every scene must remain intact, as aired. No adds, subtracts, no new CGI daggits inserted, no new CGI Cylons. The only thing a remaster should do is replace the repeated shots, like the two-raider kill while #3 banks off, and the raider exploding after being shot by the gun turret.

And those new shots must look like they were done in 1978, with real models.

Seamless.

Otherwise, I'm with Eric. Don't change a thing.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

KJ
May 8th, 2010, 08:16 PM
Well you must not like DK's BG edits then Dawg, cos DK while respecting the BG original outputs and was keeping the original content intact, he definitely took certain liberities with his own adjustments and SE upgrades with his fan edits as well.

Alright the key word here, being a fan edit. But it still amounts to the same end result, an interesting ; "what if" SE restoration of the original series if the studio themselves had done it instead etc!

If DK had the resources and did his own Remastered high quality edits of Battlestar Galactica as we're talking about. With models and well as CGI meshes fitted in there etc. You're going to tell me you wouldn't let personal bias of one of our own doing a successful edit would be different or more unexceptable than Universal doing it, if they did it the same way?!

I think not!

Come bet you'd be more willing to except it if it were DK's version rather than an official studio remastering even if it were done correctly as you say.

And there is nothing truly "Seamless" about any SE thats been done, EVER. A digital effect is just that, even subtle minor ones are just that; 'digital'. ST:TMP is said to be respectful to Robert Wise's vision and thats true, but lets not kid ourselves, if those SE effects were done optically, it wouldn't look anywhere near as clear or digitally neat as the existing current Star Trek: TMP re-edit does. If its done in 1979 then its done in 1979, if its done in 2000 then its obviously done in 2000. Seamless doesn't mean some stylised tampering wasn't done to improve it years later down the road. Seamless just means the 'said' job was very convincing and handled well, cos its very photorealistic or still very appealing to the eyes better yet, is all.

Every scene must remain intact, as aired. No adds, subtracts

I certainly don't see why the deleted scenes can't be restored and inserted back into their original slots for a "remastered" edition. There aren't any commercial times or airing window's a 'Special Edition' has to answer to? And the editing of the original smoothed out as well, makes for logical sense doesn't it. Unless your always for; Boomer and Apollo drawing their blaster guns on Sheba & Bojay in Living Legend "out of order" one minute with guns drawn, the next drop a line of dialogue with no guns, yet put'em away when the 'kaxlon alarm' goes off.

Thats like huh.....?

And like i said, a Blu-Ray disc can hold the original untampered '78 version, long as a brand new 2010-plus remastered version in there as well, then = EVERYBODY WINS!!!

Nuff said! ;)

KJ

Dawg
May 8th, 2010, 10:04 PM
Well you must not like DK's BG edits then Dawg, cos DK while respecting the BG original outputs and was keeping the original content intact, he definitely took certain liberities with his own adjustments and SE upgrades with his fan edits as well.

Alright the key word here, being a fan edit. But it still amounts to the same end result, an interesting ; "what if" SE restoration of the original series if the studio themselves had done it instead etc!

If DK had the resources and did his own Remastered high quality edits of Battlestar Galactica as we're talking about. With models and well as CGI meshes fitted in there etc. You're going to tell me you wouldn't let personal bias of one of our own doing a successful edit would be different or more unexceptable than Universal doing it, if they did it the same way?!

I think not!

Come bet you'd be more willing to except it if it were DK's version rather than an official studio remastering even if it were done correctly as you say.

And there is nothing truly "Seamless" about any SE thats been done, EVER. A digital effect is just that, even subtle minor ones are just that; 'digital'. ST:TMP is said to be respectful to Robert Wise's vision and thats true, but lets not kid ourselves, if those SE effects were done optically, it wouldn't look anywhere near as clear or digitally neat as the existing current Star Trek: TMP re-edit does. If its done in 1979 then its done in 1979, if its done in 2000 then its obviously done in 2000. Seamless doesn't mean some stylised tampering wasn't done to improve it years later down the road. Seamless just means the 'said' job was very convincing and handled well, cos its very photorealistic or still very appealing to the eyes better yet, is all.

I love David's edits. Particularly the Return of Starbuck one. But he approached it with the right attitude, not the same attitude that Lucas took with the Star Wars re-edit. In fact, the Star Trek remasters took the right attitude, too.

But every tweak, no matter how perfect, takes away from the original. Remember the uproar over colorizing some classic movies? The whole point to that was that it took away from the vision and impact that the original had, that the filmmaker had a vision and that vision came through in black and white - colorizing took that away.

I can appreciate the upgrades - I did enjoy the Star Wars remasters, but the impact was greatly lessened by the editing Lucas did.

I certainly don't see why the deleted scenes can't be restored and inserted back into their original slots for a "remastered" edition. There aren't any commercial times or airing window's a 'Special Edition' has to answer to? And the editing of the original smoothed out as well, makes for logical sense doesn't it. Unless your always for; Boomer and Apollo drawing their blaster guns on Sheba & Bojay in Living Legend "out of order" one minute with guns drawn, the next drop a line of dialogue with no guns, yet put'em away when the 'kaxlon alarm' goes off.

Thats like huh.....?

And like i said, a Blu-Ray disc can hold the original untampered '78 version, long as a brand new 2010-plus remastered version in there as well, then = EVERYBODY WINS!!!

Nuff said! ;)

KJ

I reiterate - every tweak takes away. Adding scenes that weren't there before changes the whole package.

My thinking is that the oft-repeated SFX of BG detracted from the storytelling; we were jerked back to the here-and-now, out of the story and into the technology of film making, each time we recognized the same raider exploding once or twice each episode. That is what I would change in a remastered version - and that's the only thing.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

Eric Paddon
May 8th, 2010, 11:33 PM
*****Mr Paddon quit the procrastination seriously, take a look at the thread since you've posted? If you disagree with everybody on Matador thread fair enough. But this isn't leading anywhere, when you drag this out about how you don't agree on a topic most of us are interested in. We're trying to take this beyond mere debating and into something worthwhile if the Galactica fanbase moved in this direction or if fans support it enough to make a official campaign. Its one thing to disagee its another to to drag down somebody else's thread harpng on about how you don't like it nor see the point etc etc. Thats been said enough times. I saw you and Taranis having having a few barbs this morning from my clock, then early this afternoon i could've said one thing in a reply or so but figured i've said enough so far and let everybody else talk it out, and went out cos i had things doing in town today******

I think what I expressed is a legitimate POV, and I was having it in the course of a civil discussion. OTOH, this comes off to me as an outright personal attack and a demand that the discussion be a one-way street on the topic which conjures for me some unpleasant memories of about five years ago when I discovered that certain individuals had developed the attitude that saying one harsh word about a certain reimagined TV show was "hurtful to their psyche" and that only positive things could ever be said about it. For something like this, where like it or not, there *is* a legitimate argument from the other side rooted in issues of preservation (because it is a fact that the original version of Star Wars, which is the one that *became* a phenomenon may end up lost to us forever because the care of remastering the negative of the original version won't be given us given Lucas's preference for SE editions that force the viewer to accept SW as a sequel to the prequel films rather than a product of its time) is something I think needs to be part of the discussion, along with the issue of whether or not this sudden modern-day obsession with redoing FX sequences has the ability to cheapen the areas of what constitutes the more important part of cinematic storytelling. So far, I have not heard an answer from the other side on this point, and have only heard it said that we can adopt selective standards on what kinds of film and TV should fall victim to this kind of "reimagining" and which ones (that arguably could use it more if one is concerned about realism in FX like "Forbidden Planet") which to me isn't much of an answer I can understand.


*****For real, for Matty and everybody else's sake no drawn out arguing please. No "ego" crap in this thread. *****

I think in light of your remarks aimed at me, that sentiment rings a bit hollow from my perspective. But I will agree on one thing, this topic does not belong in a section in which the purpose was to generate discussion on suggested ways of improving or fixing the original episode *stories* if we were ever given the chance to make new scripts for some theoretical new project using the old stories. As the one who suggested the creation of the "New Twists" section for that purpose, I think seeing that side of discussion on the creative side subordinated to the one about FX making is something I don't have much reason to be in favor of, but until today I never felt I had reason to say that publicly. Being told that there should only be one side of a discussion in this thread has at least given me a reason to say otherwise now.

monolith21
May 9th, 2010, 01:26 AM
Every scene must remain intact, as aired. No adds, subtracts, no new CGI daggits inserted, no new CGI Cylons. The only thing a remaster should do is replace the repeated shots, like the two-raider kill while #3 banks off, and the raider exploding after being shot by the gun turret.

And those new shots must look like they were done in 1978, with real models.

Seamless.

Otherwise, I'm with Eric. Don't change a thing.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

I agree with this 100%. The only issue I have with the series is how often the same shots are used over and over. That is the only change I would support. I'd rather see a well shot model over CGI any day. The thing that hasn't stood up over the years is the reused footage. It is the one thing that pulls someone seeing the show for the first time right now straight of the experience.

gmd3d
May 9th, 2010, 02:11 AM
I agree with the fact that some aspects of the Star Wars reworked where best left alone and should have been left alone....what I think they should have been is neither here or there in this discussion.


I think I said that the movie or pilot Episode of BSG should be reworked and given a updated effects to fix the short comings of the effect that are present..

CGI or Physical Models . (I donīt care as long as it done right) keeping the intention and the spirit intact should be the aim esp for the first one..

but there are things that would be done to enhance the viewing experience
for BSG.

something I would like to see address that has always held my interest and giving me cause for speculation. I not going to mention them as there is no point at present.

The following series need new effects as I and others have posted that the repeat use of the Pilot Episode / Movie is irksome. (mind you when the did add a new effect it was great)

I would use CGI as it the easiest to film and control..

I not trying to change anyone mindīs here Ericīs or other wise. I respect Ericīs POV I think it wrong as much as he think mine is wrong ..... that OK

but apart from a fan effort a remastering is not going to happen soon if you expect it from a studio. thatīs a given.

DK (David) work is a stunning approach and he should be applauded.

bottom line for me is the original Effect are hurting the viewing experience for the show.

KJ
May 9th, 2010, 03:36 AM
I think in light of your remarks aimed at me, that sentiment rings a bit hollow from my perspective. But I will agree on one thing, this topic does not belong in a section in which the purpose was to generate discussion on suggested ways of improving or fixing the original episode *stories* if we were ever given the chance to make new scripts for some theoretical new project using the old stories. As the one who suggested the creation of the "New Twists" section for that purpose, I think seeing that side of discussion on the creative side subordinated to the one about FX making is something I don't have much reason to be in favor of


Thats your perspective, not the reality though, its more or or less saying you've got an opinion and are entitled to it, but i've got the facts. If thats the case, then fair enough player. And just cos you started or co-opted an idea for a thread secton doesn't in anyway whatsoever mean you *police* the Battlestar Galactica fanbase opinions on things. I'm pretty sure Myself, Matador and Taranis and others views on the matter are certainly similarly shared beyond this thread on BG forums throughout the internet on the same issue o.k.

And a "legitimate POV" regardless shouldn't be bullied upon anybody.

You may feel this discussion is being demanded by me to be a one-way street, but that not what i'm asking for at all. Your basically insulting Matador by deliberately arguing something you know outright your against, i.e. stirring up arguing rather aggressively without due cause. I don't mind other members sharing your opinions, but they don't nearly come off as you do when discussing this. And come bet if you didn't post an opinion and they did, while disagreeing with them, the tone wouldn't feel so destructive.

Seriously you need to look at yourself before harping on about how its your right to have this POV etc and yet come off being 'mister' know-it-all and sound as if you sabotaging Matador's thread out of spite. Suggesting a thread to CF doesn't mean whatever your presently not in favor of, doesn't mean you get to practically 'lamblast' other CF members views on a subject you don't hold onto yourself. Its the nature inwhich you've made your opinions felt that came off as *an attack* in itself, in other words!


I think what I expressed is a legitimate POV, and I was having it in the course of a civil discussion. OTOH, this comes off to me as an outright personal attack and a demand that the discussion be a one-way street on the topic which conjures for me some unpleasant memories of about five years ago when I discovered that certain individuals had developed the attitude that saying one harsh word about a certain reimagined TV show was "hurtful to their psyche" and that only positive things could ever be said about it.


Please who are you preaching to with that kind of comment? So Taranis and myself are now Ginoids supporting the "Gino" fanbase way of thinking now eh? That insulting in itself to lable anybody on CF with regardless of your personal thoughts on them. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill!

Moving on i want to answer somebody else's input

I reiterate - every tweak takes away. Adding scenes that weren't there before changes the whole package.

My thinking is that the oft-repeated SFX of BG detracted from the storytelling; we were jerked back to the here-and-now, out of the story and into the technology of film making, each time we recognized the same raider exploding once or twice each episode. That is what I would change in a remastered version - and that's the only thing.

And i'll also reiterate. Media especially when it comes down to DVD/Blu-Ray film or science fiction Television offers a choice, between an Original or Special Edition incarnation. This will not change now o.k., yes it might change the whole package THATS THE POINT, a necessary upgrade artistically speaking which keeps the interest int he story present by smoothing out a few things which look so badly outdated years later down the road.

And point of fact, the majority of most success sci-fi fantasy films and TV shows now as of 2010 HAVE Original and Special Edition versions. Not many well known creations don't have these.

Want examples...o.k.

1) Terminator 2 Judgement Day Theatrical cut & Special edition (Also DVD edition with the "Future Coda" ending)

2) Aliens 1986 Theatrical followed by 1992 Special Edition (Which is seen as the definite cut over its theatrical cut)

3) Star Trek TOS 1966 & 2006 Remastered series. Nuff said.

4) Star Trek movies (TMP, TWOK director edition, TUDC laserdisc extended cut) etc etc.

5) The Lord Of The Rings trilogy (theatrical and Extended editions)

6) Babylon 5 The Gathering. Original 1993 version Vs 1998 Special Edition.

7) Close Encounters Of The Third Kind. Blu-Ray disc contains all 3 versions of the same film with all numerous cuts etc

8) The Abyss (at this point listing James Cameron movies confirms my points to no end!)

9) Red Dwarf. Which has an original broadcasted version Vs the newer CGI remastered picture quality versions.

10) Star Wars. Should i really go on at this point?


Think you'll find every major TV and film Sci-fi and fantasy had a regular and special edition cuts, either close soon after its original release or much later onwards a few short years or decades later. Points been made all the same though, which Taranis said earlier but much more beautifully.

BG would need to sustain its one season cult status by going further and reinventing/revitilising itself through putting out a "special edition/remastered" version today 30 plus years later. And god knows a Blu-Ray picture BG would be beautiful to gaze at let alone listen to with a 5.1 or 7.1 surround soundtrack!!!

KJ

Matador
May 9th, 2010, 06:01 AM
there is a damn good CGI model of the Galactica available already

made by Folkrm

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15996

others been built

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17315

made by maudib

This is pretty awesome model and lots of detail. Think there is way to get this to use in 3ds Max?
Think the creators of this model would give me OK to use it?

gmd3d
May 9th, 2010, 06:30 AM
Folkrm model is not publicly available .... I did have it myself at one point but lost it when My old PC Crashed ..

Maudib is still in the building stage .

I hope to some day see these available for future fan art or film ... short of building it myself .... but that will not be in the near future at least until my present Star Trek fan film modelling is done.

fingers crossed for the Big G release in the future

gmd3d
May 9th, 2010, 06:52 AM
Want examples...o.k.

1) Terminator 2 Judgement Day Theatrical cut & Special edition (Also DVD edition with the "Future Coda" ending)

2) Aliens 1986 Theatrical followed by 1992 Special Edition (Which is seen as the definite cut over its theatrical cut)

3) Star Trek TOS 1966 & 2006 Remastered series. Nuff said.

4) Star Trek movies (TMP, TWOK director edition, TUDC laserdisc extended cut) etc etc.

5) The Lord Of The Rings trilogy (theatrical and Extended editions)

6) Babylon 5 The Gathering. Original 1993 version Vs 1998 Special Edition.

7) Close Encounters Of The Third Kind. Blu-Ray disc contains all 3 versions of the same film with all numerous cuts etc

8) The Abyss (at this point listing James Cameron movies confirms my points to no end!)

9) Red Dwarf. Which has an original broadcasted version Vs the newer CGI remastered picture quality versions.

10) Star Wars. Should i really go on at this point?


Think you'll find every major TV and film Sci-fi and fantasy had a regular and special edition cuts, either close soon after its original release or much later onwards a few short years or decades later. Points been made all the same though, which Taranis said earlier but much more beautifully.

BG would need to sustain its one season cult status by going further and reinventing/revitilising itself through putting out a "special edition/remastered" version today 30 plus years later. And god knows a Blu-Ray picture BG would be beautiful to gaze at let alone listen to with a 5.1 or 7.1 surround soundtrack!!!

KJ


some of these I did not know about ... must have a look for them
esp this one Babylon 5 The Gathering. Original 1993 version Vs 1998 Special Edition. B5 is great and I have the complete collection

BG would need to sustain its one season cult status by going further and reinventing/revitilising itself through putting out a "special edition/remastered" version today 30 plus years later. And god knows a Blu-Ray picture BG would be beautiful to gaze at let alone listen to with a 5.1 or 7.1 surround soundtrack!!!
I agree with you here on this .. I would not buy another DVD release unless the effects where properly address as was mentioned already.

It would need to be tastefully done with all due consideration to the original intent of the film makers as did foundation Imaging did for ST TMP which is the best example I can think off..... forget the Star Wars versions for now that is Lucas input on his creative project.. his vision and he in the past stated when the original films where done the technology was not available for his vision which is why he waited until it was available to do the prequels. whether we personally like them or not is another story. save for jar jar binks I did like them ...

BSG TOS should be given the same due consideration as these other films / shows given it place in the history of entertainment.

Robert Wise was personally involved with the remastering of ST TMP. there is no reason why the same count not be done for BSG.

but I would no more shove my ideas at any one but I feel the TOS BSG is stagnating compared to the aforementioned shows and films.

Eric Paddon
May 9th, 2010, 07:17 AM
Thats your perspective, not the reality though, its more or or less saying you've got an opinion and are entitled to it, but i've got the facts.

I believe there are facts to support my perspective too because this comes down to a subjective question on whether altering with a work is a good thing or not. I happen to believe it is not, and I cited a number of examples to note how this standard that is being called on for Galactica would never in a million years be applied elsewhere, and while you may not agree with that, it is a legitimate perspective rooted in a factual context.


*****And just cos you started or co-opted an idea for a thread secton doesn't in anyway whatsoever mean you *police* the Battlestar Galactica fanbase opinions on things*******

I never said I did. That is the attitude you assumed unto yourself yesterday with your out of line hit job on me in which you declared that this issue is to be discussed only among advocates on one side of it. There was nothing out of line in how I was doing the back and forth with Taranis and I had in fact chosen after his last comment to move on, only to come back to it long afterwards when I saw your little hit job from out of left field which was all too reminscent of what made 2005 an unpleasant year in Galactica discussion circles. And don't try to suggest I was including Taranis in that, those remarks were directed solely at your one post.

****And a "legitimate POV" regardless shouldn't be bullied upon anybody.***

And once again, I say, physician heal thyself. You chose to act like a bully toward me because I was having an ongoing conversation on the issue.

*****Your basically insulting Matador by deliberately arguing something you know outright your against, i.e. stirring up arguing rather aggressively without due cause.******

I haven't even addressed Matador once so that is another lie on your part. I simply chose to register my view that advocating redone FX for Galactica is harmful to the integrity of the work of the original, and as one whose primary field of expertise is historical preservation it carries with it the dangerous risk that the original works get lost forever in the process which is what's happening with the SW trilogy, plus that there are questionable artistic reasons behind the concept when the standard is not applied consistently.

****And come bet if you didn't post an opinion and they did, while disagreeing with them, the tone wouldn't feel so destructive. ***

You are the one who introduced a destructive tone into this thread, so I suggest you quit your little game of projecting your own behavior onto myself.

Reaper
May 9th, 2010, 07:40 AM
The main problem with this discussion (I wouldn't call it an arguement) is that everyone is right. Both sides are 100% correct. How is this possible? Cause it's all opinion. none of us had anything to do with the original production (writing and putting the show together) so we can't say that the Released Show doesn't match our vision (Aliens Special Edition, The Abys Special Edition) Or what was done to the Star Trek movies.

I am split on the Star Wars Changes myself. I've been a DIE HARD Star Wars fan since I saw the previews as a 5 year old. It's been a DRIVING force in my imagination since then. And I have spent untold amounts of money on costumes so I can cling to a part of that legacy (through charity work in costume and official LFL events) I think Some of the additions to the Special Editionm and the DVD edition helped the story. I love the redone Space Battle of ANH. the Establishing shots of Mos Eisley and Bespin give you a better scale for both settings. Changing walls to windows in Empire it more in keeping with a City in the clouds. You'd want it open. I even like the insertion of the Jabba the Hutt Scene in ANH. It adds to Solo's mindset and shows he NEEDS that money. But when Lucas changed the story is where I don't like it. Greedo shooting first, changed dialog between Vader and the Emperor. this was not needed or wanted.

The worst thing Lucas then did here was say "this is Star Wars now, Deal with it, we won't release the Theatrical cuts anymore" If we do this, and IF we get UIniversal to back it, release it, anything like that, We have to do it ALONG SIDE the original Versions. Because Those are the editions that people fell in love with.

I'm with Monolith, The Space battles, the reused SFX shots, the Same battle, over and over again, at this point, takes away from the show for me. I want, and yes, I mean me, myself lol, unique battles every time those Vipers launch. using the cockpit scenes, and dialog EXACTLY as it was in the show. Enhance the color, restore the footage, but don't change it.

Insert the re-edited Return of Starbuck (minus the G1980 stuff) into the series officially. And I like DK's use of the DeSanto Viper here. It shows that time has passed.

Let the Raiders have more variety, it's been shown that in some SFX shots there is a Gold Raider in the formation. Show this and let the Gold Cylon Raider be derstroyed, appear again in other shots (this was supposed to be Cylon Squadron leaders as I understand it, where a Gold Cylon would be flying) Let Baltar's Raider be such a Raider. DK had Baltar flying in a special Raider in his edit. it'd be easier to color the Raider Gold as a Squadron Leader/Command Raider.

I'd support the insertion of SOME deleted material. But when we do this, having the Original DVDs continue to be available is more important for those who don't want changes. If we get Universal backing and release, I'd want a Box set release similar to the Alien Quintology. Having both versions in the same box and allow everyone to be happy!

gmd3d
May 9th, 2010, 08:00 AM
The main problem with this discussion (I wouldn't call it an arguement) is that everyone is right. Both sides are 100% correct. How is this possible? Cause it's all opinion. none of us had anything to do with the original production (writing and putting the show together) so we can't say that the Released Show doesn't match our vision (Aliens Special Edition, The Abys Special Edition) Or what was done to the Star Trek movies.

I am split on the Star Wars Changes myself. I've been a DIE HARD Star Wars fan since I saw the previews as a 5 year old. It's been a DRIVING force in my imagination since then. And I have spent untold amounts of money on costumes so I can cling to a part of that legacy (through charity work in costume and official LFL events) I think Some of the additions to the Special Editionm and the DVD edition helped the story. I love the redone Space Battle of ANH. the Establishing shots of Mos Eisley and Bespin give you a better scale for both settings. Changing walls to windows in Empire it more in keeping with a City in the clouds. You'd want it open. I even like the insertion of the Jabba the Hutt Scene in ANH. It adds to Solo's mindset and shows he NEEDS that money. But when Lucas changed the story is where I don't like it. Greedo shooting first, changed dialog between Vader and the Emperor. this was not needed or wanted.

The worst thing Lucas then did here was say "this is Star Wars now, Deal with it, we won't release the Theatrical cuts anymore" If we do this, and IF we get UIniversal to back it, release it, anything like that, We have to do it ALONG SIDE the original Versions. Because Those are the editions that people fell in love with.

I'm with Monolith, The Space battles, the reused SFX shots, the Same battle, over and over again, at this point, takes away from the show for me. I want, and yes, I mean me, myself lol, unique battles every time those Vipers launch. using the cockpit scenes, and dialog EXACTLY as it was in the show. Enhance the color, restore the footage, but don't change it.

Insert the re-edited Return of Starbuck (minus the G1980 stuff) into the series officially. And I like DK's use of the DeSanto Viper here. It shows that time has passed.

Let the Raiders have more variety, it's been shown that in some SFX shots there is a Gold Raider in the formation. Show this and let the Gold Cylon Raider be derstroyed, appear again in other shots (this was supposed to be Cylon Squadron leaders as I understand it, where a Gold Cylon would be flying) Let Baltar's Raider be such a Raider. DK had Baltar flying in a special Raider in his edit. it'd be easier to color the Raider Gold as a Squadron Leader/Command Raider.

I'd support the insertion of SOME deleted material. But when we do this, having the Original DVDs continue to be available is more important for those who don't want changes. If we get Universal backing and release, I'd want a Box set release similar to the Alien Quintology. Having both versions in the same box and allow everyone to be happy!

you have made some excellent point Reaper.. having both versions would be nice . I already have the original on DVD and I love to watch it from time to time.

General Reply:
I am not going to repeat all the points I made before to show where I agree ..

I respect all the views here from everyone . in agreement with me or not
it only my view point after all. Ericīs and Dawgīs views are as valid as mine and KJs and all the one for a remastering. again its not going to happen from a studio .. they donīt care as they have the new version to milk first..

and no matter what happens not everyone is going to be happy with it.
we can be banging our head against this from now to Xmas and still wonīt agree if some one is generally in apposition to a remastering of the Show..

and I am certainly not going to be involved in one.

I think the thread should resume with the originators original desire (sounds great that bit) :D

BST
May 9th, 2010, 08:12 AM
Gentlemen,

I've had to open the windows since it's getting a little warm in the room.

Please remember to keep the remarks focused on the topic and not the poster.



In honor of Mother's Day, I'm going to close the thread for the day since you will, no doubt, be attending to those more important in your lives. I'll re-open it tomorrow morning after awakening... (EDT)


Enjoy the day.

;)

BST

BST
May 10th, 2010, 05:18 AM
As promised, the thread is now re-opened.

Please focus on the issue and debate it to your heart's content.


BST

:salute:

Matador
May 10th, 2010, 02:54 PM
Hello all,

Just letting everyone know that i'm still working on my CG Galactica stuff to be added into a "remastered BSG concept".

I've had a few emails asking me to repost the link to my youtube site with what I've done so far.

Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/danakinobi#p/a/u/1/cThC2FQh8SI

http://www.youtube.com/danakinobi#p/a/u/0/VjeqqRel_hI

I've been working with 3ds Max for all the modeling and animation. I'm working to make some cutscenes that I think would look cool in a remastered version.
I saw the link that has the CG modeled Galactica.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17315

Very impressive. Detail is amazing.

I would like to get in contact with the creator or creators of that model to discuss methods used to detail the hull... Such as gun torrets, pipes, and all the awesome hull plating.
So if anyone knows... Please let me know.
Cheers,
Matador

gmd3d
May 10th, 2010, 03:09 PM
well the modeller is maudib and he is using lightwave for his model.

as for the details no idea .. But I am sure he would be happy to pass on his ideas ..

KJ
May 10th, 2010, 11:39 PM
The main problem with this discussion (I wouldn't call it an arguement) is that everyone is right. Both sides are 100% correct. How is this possible? Cause it's all opinion. none of us had anything to do with the original production (writing and putting the show together) so we can't say that the Released Show doesn't match our vision (Aliens Special Edition, The Abys Special Edition) Or what was done to the Star Trek movies.

I am split on the Star Wars Changes myself. I've been a DIE HARD Star Wars fan since I saw the previews as a 5 year old. It's been a DRIVING force in my imagination since then. And I have spent untold amounts of money on costumes so I can cling to a part of that legacy (through charity work in costume and official LFL events) I think Some of the additions to the Special Editionm and the DVD edition helped the story. I love the redone Space Battle of ANH. the Establishing shots of Mos Eisley and Bespin give you a better scale for both settings. Changing walls to windows in Empire it more in keeping with a City in the clouds. You'd want it open. I even like the insertion of the Jabba the Hutt Scene in ANH. It adds to Solo's mindset and shows he NEEDS that money. But when Lucas changed the story is where I don't like it. Greedo shooting first, changed dialog between Vader and the Emperor. this was not needed or wanted.

Hmmm? Very interesting dialogue and opinion there too Reaper. Yeah but i gotta say dude that, some opinions, are more valid than others especially when backed with "common sense" and having a vision, of keeping the old girl renewed in the public eye!

Don't want it to sound arrogant or anything. Just that i'm applying a smart rationale of what Taranis, myself and others have hit upon earlier in this debate. Keeping it as it was, only applying and placing emphasize on digital tweaks to clear the picture, having a 5.1 surround sound track and editing flubs fixed.

Thats hardly making massive changes to storylines is it?

The worst thing Lucas then did here was say "this is Star Wars now, Deal with it, we won't release the Theatrical cuts anymore" If we do this, and IF we get UIniversal to back it, release it, anything like that, We have to do it ALONG SIDE the original Versions. Because Those are the editions that people fell in love with.

I'm with Monolith, The Space battles, the reused SFX shots, the Same battle, over and over again, at this point, takes away from the show for me. I want, and yes, I mean me, myself lol, unique battles every time those Vipers launch. using the cockpit scenes, and dialog EXACTLY as it was in the show. Enhance the color, restore the footage, but don't change it.

Thats what were debating however, how to go about it while keeping it from becoming what Lucas did with SW and what Paramount could've done with Star Trek Remastered.

The Star Trek Remastered episodes aren't massively changed, if anything their problem lies in the fact, they a) they weren't worked on enough and digital flubs now exist b) fans have issue with the fact it wasn't worked on long enough to make it even better as many opportunities were lost c) its budget could've been much bigger considering Star Trek's global impact and the sheer money $$$ Parmount Pictures rakes in of off Star Trek's name as a franchise etc. Same goes with Star Wars and 20th Century Fox!

Battlestar Galactica at Universal can't claim the same thing.

Both Star Wars and Star Trek despite the digital changes made to their respective SE editions in recent years. Are enjoying and making serious amounts of money off of; newer, cleaner/crisp, surround sound mastered, re-broadcasted (ST), etc and thus enjoy a rebirth of interest cos their franchises are being kept alive by renewed interest over time and their classics cleaned and polished every now and then?

Still gonna brag about the classic BG series in 10 or 15 years time when the newer technology like 'Super HD', 3D or even early hologramatic technology hits the market and first and second generation DVD's of the late 20th century early 2000's become like the LP's, A-tracks and old VHS recorders of yesteryear?

Space 2099 currently taking advantage of the situation?! So why should their be the old 'procrastination' of keep a cult classic looking outdated and so old-ish when it can also easily enjoy the benefits of having a facelift substantially and keep up with its sci-fi peers if you understand the metaphors i'm going with here! Overfamiliarity with the 2003 DVD release might make you think it ends there, but i don't think so. Can't see why BG couldn't simply go the HD Blu-Ray, IPod/IPhone download or 'online website download' even route, once its been remastered.

I've frequently asked this in the past, so at least everybody knows i'm damn well absolutely genuine about my feelings on the situation. Its a legitimate request and i feel Matador, myself, DK, TwoBrainedCylon, Titon, Jjrakman etc have all been down this discussion so many times in the past. Because it'll be a worthwhile endeavour for the fanbase and Battlestar Galactica in general!

We want a Galactica theatrical movie, but when it seems the studio's jerking us around again, we lose that "tie-in" to revisit to the classic series getting a technological boost too!

Taranis and Matador are absolutely right though. Just like Space 2099, reckon any BG SE lies with the fans now. And any unified fanbase project would make sure it certainly wouldn't ever go off the rails with whackyness etc! Beyond the BG movie, beyond the previous CFF Ad efforts, and the Hatch BG:TSC and Singer/DeSanto BG TV revival. A BG:SE is the only thing worth going after in that order of things. Comic book adaptations and FanFiction fall behind anything media related and you know it, thats simple basic facts of the situation, and not opinions!

Think about it! :cool::salute:

KJ

Eric Paddon
May 11th, 2010, 12:05 PM
Still gonna brag about the classic BG series in 10 or 15 years time? KJ


In a word, yes. For the same reason that fifteen years from now the 1933 King Kong will still be regarded better than the flash in the pan that was Jackson's.

That is my definition of "common sense." To paraphrase Adama in LL, it may not be others, but it is, as others have at least acknowledged an equally valid perspective relative to this issue.

Reaper
May 11th, 2010, 12:31 PM
Some Opinions are never more valid then someone else's Opinions. You may get more people to agree with your opinion, but that does not make it more Valid, simply more acceptable.

You can back up your arguement and make your argument more valid, but Your opinion is simply that, your opinion. Based on your likes, dislikes, and values.

While you argue your side here, do not loose fact that not everyone will agree with you. And sometimes passion for a cause can put off people who do share your opinion, when you let that passion get away from you.

KJ
May 11th, 2010, 01:34 PM
Some Opinions are never more valid then someone else's Opinions. You may get more people to agree with your opinion, but that does not make it more Valid, simply more acceptable

So you say, then again they'd be YOUR opinions in relation to the opposing aruging views put forth by somebody else (or albeit groups) and not the reality of it said discussion. Take a look at my country's government right now for example. Its 'Hung' in the literal sense of the word right now, and MP's are all in a twist as to who to back, but does it really matter when the Tories of this country are practically sitting in the driver's seat because of their opinions and politics got'em there in the first place? Doesn't matter if what they're saying is seen as opinion in the "commons" and goes around in an endless debate, their more acceptable way of thinking/opinions and political viewpoints i.e. opinions on how to "Govern" put'em there in the first place.

Some opinions ARE more valid, its a basic fact deny it all you want to. But it'll be harder to do so, in the face of proof or facts backing up a much stronger arguement however! quibbling simply cos you got another viewpoint which differs from somebody else's, doesn't make the situation disappear or change the undeniable facts.

While you argue your side here, do not loose fact that not everyone will agree with you. And sometimes passion for a cause can put off people who do share your opinion, when you let that passion get away from you.

Yes so agreed, and while i've been around this fanbase, i've seen time and effort being wasted on things that had absolutely no fruitful promises pay off. So i'm more than speaking from previous experience right there! And i didn't share whomever's passion when they lost me neither! I've said before there was no ego in this thing from me and others, go back and re-read this entire thread post by post if need be. What your saying doesn't apply to me nor those sharing my opinions, believe that!

In a word, yes. For the same reason that fifteen years from now the 1933 King Kong will still be regarded better than the flash in the pan that was Jackson's.

Good then do so.

Cos if and when either Galactica Fanbase(s) (we aren't the only ones?) puts out SE projects of its own or there's an official SE Restoration of Battlestar Galactica from Universal. We'll all be hopefully enjoying a HD version with touchups that keep the old girl from being left behind quality-wise, and BG would benefit from the modern day digital advances in technology.


At the end of the day, myself and others can lead you to water like a horse (metaphorically speaking) but we can't make you drink?

But a 'horse' has to drink something? eventually doesn't it!

KJ

KJ
May 11th, 2010, 01:38 PM
P.S. How exactly long do you think the old 'negatives' from the series will last? Thus effecting and compromising a "restoration" project endeavour of anykind (official or fanbase driven!).

Even if you don't wholly agree with an debate, you could at least say you'd wish for a another release that keeps the series from becoming unusable in the future far as formats are concerned.

KJ

gmd3d
May 11th, 2010, 01:39 PM
In a word, yes. For the same reason that fifteen years from now the 1933 King Kong will still be regarded better than the flash in the pan that was Jackson's.

That is my definition of "common sense." To paraphrase Adama in LL, it may not be others, but it is, as others have at least acknowledged an equally valid perspective relative to this issue.


I agree that the original King Kong will be still regarded better than Jackson .. Originals usually are. and the original BSG is still regard the same way over it recent remake (we wonīt go there )

As many think that Sean Conneryīs Bond is still the best over any other bonds that followed ... yet each younger generation will possibly argue for Roger Moore . Timothy Dalton etc etc

your always going to get that .


one of the points we have made is that ( We Feel ) at the current condition of the visual Effects (Space Craft etc) is not holding up well after 30 plus years and while the life action is solid and wonderful.

the visuals are letting it down ..... for example

one of the master shots of the Galactica you can see the support of the Galactica Model as its moving across the screen...

now this blows the whole impact of the effect and I am no longer looking at a mighty space ship in Space .... I am looking at a 79 inch plastic and wooden model in a studio some where in the Hollywood hills.

I have added a screen capture from my DVD set to illustrate..

thatīs one if the shot that could stand a change and a remastering ....

Lucas saw the same thing in Star Wars Trilogy and changed it and cleaned it up for future sales and to ensure the quality was up to that future viewership.

BSG will remain a classic all right, and it will possibly be in the same group as The forbidden Planet ...... I would have it remain where it should be .. as in the same classic group as Star Wars and Star Trek ....

there are many fan forums about the above but I have not seen many for FP

if its believed that keeping BSG as it is will attracted new fans as Star Wars Star Trek do...... its a short sighted view that will ultimately push BSG into the Group as the original King Kong and Forbidden Planet George Pals films.

people that sentimentally watch these old sci-fi keep them around and they should not be touched as they donīt need them .. its not necessary as they are perfect as they are

relevant to the effects of the time.

BSG is not effects wise holding up well .. its too grainy, lots of noise on the screen.

thatīs the honest truth..... and if were all honest when we view it we should see that to keep it fresh and insure its future .. it needs to be remastered cleaned up and presented afresh ...

Effect can be shot the same angles and intent . I donīt care but I will never buy another DVD SET with the effects as they are .. if I lost my valued BSG set I would still not go out and by the set again because of that disappointment that I feel when I see how poorly they are holding up when I bought it a few years ago. the stories are still as wonderful as when I first saw it.

Lucas saw it and corrected it .. insuring Star Wars trilogy a place for a long time to come .......

Battlestar Galactica deserves no less a treatment IMO

.. again its only my view ... I respect all here and their views..

thanks for reading

Reaper
May 11th, 2010, 01:50 PM
ok, Let's get VERY specific KJ, please present to me the Facts that make Eric's Opinion that the Original broadcast Shows are not good enough. Please prove his opinion wrong.

And I do ask you to be Very specific in your answer. only supply "proof and Facts" that relate to his opinion being wrong please.

Edit - And remember, this is coming from someone who supports creating a SE of the Series.

Something else to note here, Not everyone views the SE of Star Wars as a good thing, I have heard a growing army of voices that feel Lucas Killed Star Wars by making ANY changes to the Theatrical "Iconic" cuts.

Eric Paddon
May 11th, 2010, 02:28 PM
Some opinions ARE more valid, its a basic fact deny it all you want to.

Not in this case. Even I have been the first to concede the point that this argument revolves *entirely* around the issues of the subjective. And I come into this with a consistent view that *no* alterations to a film or TV show should be made that rely on technology that was *not* present at the time the film was made. This is not the same thing as going back and re-editing films using only footage shot at the time or restoring an original roadshow cut of a movie that was then cut down for general release. In the case of those restorations, the end product remains a product of its own time which contextually, from an artistic *and* historic standpoint, I believe all films should always be, with no exceptions.

I do not regard the FX to be a component of an end-product in film that is somehow more important than any other element that is necessary for the creation of a great film. To me, they must be accepted for what they are and when they were made just as I must accept the fact that a film from the 1970s can't have Humphrey Bogart in it (to cite one off the wall example of what this boils down to). The day films and TV series cease to be recognized as products of their own time is the day we compromise much of the work's overall artistic integrity.

Let's cite another example that goes beyond the realm of FX but proves the same point IMO. If the FX of 1978 are "dated" and thus make it impossible to enjoy the end product today and thus require replacement of said FX, then who is stop someone else from then saying that because big orchestral film scores are out of favor with today's young audiences (and it's a sad fact that the days of the big epic orchestral scores with their signature themes are now gone forever) we should replace the music scores of Galactica and Star Wars etc. with synthesized scores that are more "with it"? And I wouldn't dismiss that because unfortunately there already is precedence for this kind of tampering in a "restoration" when the 1965 western "Major Dundee" was given a totally new score for its recent restoration. If you open up a can of worms in the FX department and sanction it for all time, then you in the end are going to make it possible for further kinds of tinkering
in other areas, and yes, I fully expect that to include colorization if someone really thinks they've come up with a state of the art process. And that isn't something I'm about to give approval to either.

And I also have still not heard an answer that to me coherently addresses the question of *why* does this obession with redoing FX only apply to the end products that in the 1960s and 1970s were absolutely state of the art compared to its contemporaries? I just can not see the logic in saying that work from the 60s and 70s needs to be freshened up but the same old cheap models from "Forbidden Planet" can stay as is, or that "Star Trek" must be altered to be "updated" but you're still going to have a load of anachronistic dialogue about World War III in the 1990s (not to mention Chekov's reference to Leningrad, which thankfully ceased to exist in 1991) that will always be there to remind people of when this was first made. And that ends up giving you an artistic clash of styles on a giant scale that I don't find aesthetically pleasing at all on any level.

Galactica's virtues in what it did at the time should be celebrated, and it should be viewed as a classic leap forward for how FX could be done on television in the same way we view other works of the past as great trailblazers and pioneers for improvements in the future on *other* projects. Merely because you *can* do things better today does not mean that artistically it works to retroactively slap all that back on the works of the past just because one is more popular in some eyes than others and thus can be treated differently. Some people might have their own standard and think otherwise, and its not my place to say that they somehow have a lesser appreciation for what constitutes good and not good aesthetic results. All I can say is that I have my standard, and it stems from a consistent view I take regarding *all* films and TV shows. You can disagree, but you can't call the position inconsistent, nor is it valid to suggest that its a call to enjoy something in low quality. I want to see the *original* work presented in the best quality restored negative etc. today so that the viewing experience can always be like it was for those who first experienced it and not through the experience of beat-up syndicated prints with several minutes missing etc.

KJ
May 11th, 2010, 02:36 PM
Edit--

*sigh* Whatever Eric Paddon, the debate is about a 'Remastered' Battlestar Galactica - Go READ "THE THREAD TITLE". This isn't one of your threads where you go off and rant at somebody with any supposed intellectual insights. While the debate is raising awareness of restoring Galatica digitally somewhat its mixing in more elements than just FX and CGI effects, also formats and software that it might be played on. You don't seem to grasp that end of the arguement at all, and see it as another opportunity to whine on as per usual. and if your going to use example use current one, using Forbidden Planet or King Kong because of their age is kinda desperate.

Figure that needs saying, even if you'll have a mod jump in on your behalf. I'm brave enough to be brutally honest.

Anyways... in responce to Reaper who asked...

No Reaper, because if you have been reading this thread entirely they it shouldn't even be a question raised, as if need to bring up proof when the discussion have brought up more than enough facts and points of debate to have this sort of discussion in the first place. Why should i start dancing to anybody's tune simpl cos your not coming up with anything that puts a 'dent' in my or matador's or Taranis arguements.

And please, don't feel that because i'm not going there you made some sort of point against me, cos you haven't.

I fail to see what possible points you've made for for own arguements that Galactica ought remain on a double-sided DVD from 2003 with no restoration effort being made, in light of today's jump to HD-DVD Blu-Ray or IPod/IPhone downloadables etc etc to no end.

And I do ask you to be Very specific in your answer. only supply "proof and Facts" that relate to his opinion being wrong please

Nope not seeing why, each side should descent there with that. If you weren't so one-sided you'd have launched the same questions at him, he isn't in the right cos he have views similar to yours neither. Besides its already proven you side likes DK's edits, what makes his edit do likable for you, if you don't want a bloody thing altered or changed whatsoever regarding the classic series?

If your such a purist, then even DK's work as a fanedit would automatically be seen as a 'no-no' cos its been altered from the original.

And i'll say it again for those that aren't keeping track of whats being put down in this discussion. I'D WANT THE ORIGINAL SERIES ON THE BLU-RAY UNTOUCHED AS WELL. NEXT TO A BRAND NEW REMASTERED BG SERIES ALA STAR TREK REMASTERED ON BLU-RAY!

:cool:

Going beyond the lackluster attitude of always saying it'll be switched around too much and altered etc. Why don't you back your views with some evidence if your feeling you'd need to take this somewhere's with exhibit A' and B' in a courtroom or something?

If its such a request you're looking for however. Then i'll ask Taranis or Titon or TWB to put up comparison pics to point our the comparison between what a respectful restoration could be like and outline the project if it were to be undertaken, compared to the original shots from the 78 series original that while.

What do you say Taranis? Could you prepare some jpegs of photoshopped comparisons pics of the original with errors and shots fixed but aren't massively altering anything too much.

Next to an outlined list we could possibly put together to outline every *niggle* so that everything is layed out for those still asking themselves what we're asking for this thing!

Also whats views do you hold now, seeing how far this has come,...Matador?

KJ

KJ
May 11th, 2010, 03:00 PM
Y'know, i'm gonna go off and get back to making that list, and perhaps talk to like-minded others etc. And with any further possible interest, revisit this debate with something i reckon will grab people's attention better.

For now argue this to your hearts content. Just don't want to see it ruined by off-topic examples set by others!

Peace!

KJ

Reaper
May 11th, 2010, 03:11 PM
So, when asked flat out, you decline to State only Facts and proof. I asked for no arguement, I didn't ask for a recap of your opinion. I asked for the simple facts.

I have indeed followed this thread, and frankly, the reason I asked for these "facts" is simply cause you provided no facts. You have amply provided your opinion, and backed that up with other opinions that happened to support you. But there hasn't been a single FACT presented in this arguement. You are simply relying on being in the majority. that's fine.

But where you fail, is in the RESPECT aspect of any arguement.

It's a telling FACT that you are on shakey ground if you can't convince someone who SHARES your opinion, why he should support you.

Why haven't I asked these same questions to Eric? the answer is simple. While he has argued against you, he has respected your side, and presented his agruement against. He's answered you point for point and made a compelling arguement to the contrary of your position. He has claimed no facts, and not belittled your opinion.

That's the last I'll comment on any of that, I know my point will be lost on a few here, I just hope some do understand what I've said.

Now, that aside, The purpose of this thread is to discuss Remastering the Series. Whether that remasting simply involves restoring the quality of the original prints, a little more editing to remove model stands, but no changes to the content or effects, or replacing said effects with modern effect, this is what we should talk about, and concentrate on. If you don't think any of this should be done, Your opinion is valid, but not on topic (in my opinion of course) Since it is unlikely that Universal will get behind any of this at any point int he near future, this is a fan based effort. No more official then DK's Fan Edits. The goal is just broader. Taking what DK has done and moving it further along.

I do think we need to close this thread, move past what's been argued and start a new topic. The new one should be on topic and not include the debate on whether we should or shouldn't do it. but if we can, and how much can we do.

For better or worse, there is my full opinion. I present it as mine, and mine alone. And I stand behind it.

Eric Paddon
May 11th, 2010, 03:52 PM
*sigh* Whatever Eric Paddon, the debate is about a 'Remastered' Battlestar Galactica - Go READ "THE THREAD TITLE". This isn't one of your threads where you go off and rant at somebody with any supposed intellectual insights.

Figure that needs saying, even if you'll have a mod jump in on your behalf. I'm brave enough to be brutally honest.

No, it means you're incapable of showing basic civility even AFTER you were told by the Moderators to do so. What a pity that you'd rather presume some arrogant right to indulge in yet another uncalled for personal attack on me just because I register a perspective different from your own. I at least, chose to treat the discussion as a fair-minded exchange in which I don't begrudge the other perspective, so long as there is an understanding of just how serious an issue this whole question raises which for many people like myself is not a trivial matter. It evidently says something for the insecurity of your own position that you can't summon a response in the spirit of what message board discussion is supposed to be about and instead have to take the low-road. And what's laughable is how you then defend your low-road bullying as an exercise in "honesty" that somehow "needed to be said" when the real definition of it is intellectual cowardice of the first order. And that is something that *really* needs to be said because if you want to know who ruined this thread with off-topic personal attacks and smears, all you need to do is look in a mirror. If Taranis and Reaper can make the case for their side without attacks, it surely should be within your capacity to do the same.

BST
May 11th, 2010, 06:13 PM
I really do dislike closing a thread, simply because a person cannot check his or her tongue, at the door. I trust the meaning of that remark is clear to all.

****************

Now, I have several questions.

Except for updating the master copy of the Galactica shows on a medium more durable than currently being used, why is it necessary to "update" the originals with new footage?

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

We all know how others who "re-imagined" things named Galactica were vilified so, will we be doing that to ourselves as well?


Before I go any further, I do want to clarify something -- I am not criticizing anyone for efforts made to broaden the interest of Galactica or to pose "what if" scenarios to favorite scenes or episodes. In fact, I congratulate those, like Dave Kerin, who have the talent and imagination to visually entertain us with different twists on old scenes. Stuff like that is what keeps me interested and coming back.

:)

But, I feel that it is simply an indication of what can be done, not necessarily what should be done.

KJ
May 11th, 2010, 10:26 PM
So, when asked flat out, you decline to State only Facts and proof. I asked for no arguement, I didn't ask for a recap of your opinion. I asked for the simple facts.

I have indeed followed this thread, and frankly, the reason I asked for these "facts" is simply cause you provided no facts. You have amply provided your opinion, and backed that up with other opinions that happened to support you. But there hasn't been a single FACT presented in this arguement. You are simply relying on being in the majority. that's fine.

But where you fail, is in the RESPECT aspect of any arguement.

It's a telling FACT that you are on shakey ground if you can't convince someone who SHARES your opinion, why he should support you.

HOLD ON. First off i don't share yours or Eric's opinion and i'm not asking you outright to follow or vouch for me. My ground is firm enough thank you. Thats your views right there not mine Reaper, and i'm not going to try to alter anybody's mind or bully anybody on here (thanks for that metaphor even if its incorrect about me though).

We were having a discussion and you got involved. But thats your views on how its gone so far and hence only that? But clearly it isn't the reality of the situation that was started on here Reaper. And since when should a "flat out decline" of anything you've asked me, be seen as weakness of anykind? , can't say holding a view of not engaging the 'tech' questions that Taranis and myself were talking about and matters of bringing up possible other avenues to take this in, could be in anyway shape or form be interpreted as a failure on anybody's behalf.

I told you in repsonce go re-read the thread. if you had done that you'd have examined the articles and posts made since last year, you failed to bring them up thus glazed over what was on the table already arguement wise.

Why haven't I asked these same questions to Eric? the answer is simple. While he has argued against you, he has respected your side, and presented his agruement against. He's answered you point for point and made a compelling arguement to the contrary of your position. He has claimed no facts, and not belittled your opinion.

WRONG he has obviously belittled and usually does so, but this isn't about him nor am i going there again. But you can't deny the tone of this thread changed in his first posting (40# and 50#) and no certainly hasn't answered me point for point, but feel free to think so. Myself and everyone have made compelling arguements, if you're so honest, then say so and go about crediting everyone and all we've brought up and discussed on here since day one Matdaor started this topic!

Like i said if you read the earlier posts and you haven't? You'd know i agreed on one or two points Eric made before hand, not without some further harsh negativity from the other end of things in responce though. So quit the lack of respect angle, cos its lost here. You haven't exactly come in with bells on saying you disagreed with us, but love our passion for the thread/potential project etc etc etc.

Not taking credit for it, but this thread was dormant until i remember i said a few things i promised i'd get around to and wondered if i should take it up again and ask around (and i have?) Don't act like you had a more valid opinion implying you cared more matador thread, otherwise without DK, matador, Taranis myself and others you'd have been here for months already talking and reviving this thread without me and it'll been ongoing rather than be forgotten about.

I do think we need to close this thread, move past what's been argued and start a new topic. The new one should be on topic and not include the debate on whether we should or shouldn't do it. but if we can, and how much can we do.

Wow, so don't actually start a thread, but jump in and after a few comments in a discussion/arguement that been going on since last year and ask for it to be closed suddenly. Gee why don't i do that, jump into other people's threads on CF and start arguments and ask for them to be close after a few heated barbs???

Weren't you just on about something called respect!!! :rolleyes:

Arguing going on or not, i like this thread but its isn't mine and i've never claimed it neither. Its Matador's go take this up with him but don't disrespect him by asking for it to be closed at all. I don't go into thread where you and Eric hang out and ask for them to be closed, whether arguing going on or not. You think you say? I think your out of line*, its not your call nor should you be implying that scenario either.

I STAND behind that statement* 110% myself.

I really do dislike closing a thread, simply because a person cannot check his or her tongue, at the door. I trust the meaning of that remark is clear to all.

****************

Oh i'm not going to ruin it for anybody, i came back here to restart a passion and asked Matador in 'private' if he still was interested in his old thread. So while i'm a brutally honest person, i can stay away from arguing when i know the roundabout circle of opinions clogs up a place and i'm better than that. And i won't address whomever i feel is trying to change the tone again. But i just felt Matdaor thread is one of this BG fanbases potential **diamonds in the rough** that should garner more attention.

That attention can do without any foolish ignorance far as i'm concerned. And alot of what Taranis has brought up was fasinating things getting my imagination going.

Don't close anything BST. Allow Matador or Taranis to continue this thread without me if need be. And i'll get back to them once we've debated my list elsewhere's for the discussion on here.

Thank you!

KJ

Matador
May 11th, 2010, 10:38 PM
Wow... I was just reading some of the posts... I didn't realize I started such a fire storm and I'm really sorry about that.

I just wanted to share an idea I had... Didn't mean for it to get all heated up. My bad.

I haven't really spent much time reading all the posts on this thread... I just wanted to post some updates.

I'll continue to work on my little project. Hope to continue to hear from you all... I've appreciated some of the great emails and response to my animation. Thanks

I do hope to meet Mr. Larson some day... For I admire his work, idea, and concept... I've always dreamed that I could chat with him some morning over a cup of coffee. Anything is possible... I just hope to follow in his foot steps and produce my own sci-fi show some day.

Cheers all.

gmd3d
May 12th, 2010, 01:39 AM
Wow... I was just reading some of the posts... I didn't realize I started such a fire storm and I'm really sorry about that.

I just wanted to share an idea I had... Didn't mean for it to get all heated up. My bad.

I haven't really spent much time reading all the posts on this thread... I just wanted to post some updates.

I'll continue to work on my little project. Hope to continue to hear from you all... I've appreciated some of the great emails and response to my animation. Thanks

I do hope to meet Mr. Larson some day... For I admire his work, idea, and concept... I've always dreamed that I could chat with him some morning over a cup of coffee. Anything is possible... I just hope to follow in his foot steps and produce my own sci-fi show some day.

Cheers all.

no worries mate .. this happens from time to time and thatīs no bad thing either.

as to the other suggestion fixing up the image via photoshop etc I donīt at present have time but I would like to start modeling the Galactica myself but that wonīt be for a while until my present Trek project is wrapped up.


I posted an image showing one of the elements that reduces to quality of the shows impact for me.

its there to view .. I have a large screen TV now and on that it looks as bad in case some wants to suggest it could be my monitor .. so I checked last night if my monitor is at fault.

This is the last observation I am going to make on this and its something that Eric and like minded members are thinking

it is this

with all due respect to your position

1. do you think future generations will accept BSG in it current condition as a going concern and completely watch-able show in say another 10 years time.
and who knows where technology will be then.

2. and given that younger viewers are bombarded with more modern visuals effect films and tv shows.

and lets be honest most modern films / tv are filmed around special effects now and the characters are secondary importance.

you watch them and forget them ..... BSG has survived because the story and the Characters are interesting and fun and Entertaining!!!!!

I think the position that I am have and KJ is that we feel to give BSG an extend life on the video and sales shelves the effects which is apart of the story as they make the story believable??!! . when the Effect fail as I think they are in BSG.

I understand and respect your views for keeping things as they are. bottom line is keep the current quality and you hurt the future for the original BSG .. I firmly believe this. and I would like to see it on TV and DVD shelves for a long time to come in the future.

BST
May 12th, 2010, 05:39 AM
Wow... I was just reading some of the posts... I didn't realize I started such a fire storm and I'm really sorry about that.



Matador,

Please don't apologize. I relish these types of conversations and I would like to see this site have more of them. A good-natured debate, complete with well-thought arguments is what this place is all about. We don't learn much if we all have the same opinion. That's why I don't have a problem with the topic being debated and would actually like to see more 'meaty' discussions like this taking place.

Where I, or any of the Staff, have to be concerned is when the conversation starts drifting away from the topic and toward the person posting the remarks. That's something that we won't tolerate and is typically where a warning will be 'issued'. Hence, the little siesta that this thread received, over the past weekend.



Don't close anything BST. Allow Matador or Taranis to continue this thread without me if need be. And i'll get back to them once we've debated my list elsewhere's for the discussion on here.



Jason,

I have no intention to close this thread, as long as what I said in the above paragraph is kept in mind. Like I said, having different opinions is what makes life interesting and we'd be a pretty boring lot if we all shared exactly the same opinion about everything. Please continue to share your thoughts.


Now, does anyone have answers to my questions in the above post?

;)

Reaper
May 12th, 2010, 07:32 AM
Now, I have several questions.

Except for updating the master copy of the Galactica shows on a medium more durable than currently being used, why is it necessary to "update" the originals with new footage?

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

We all know how others who "re-imagined" things named Galactica were vilified so, will we be doing that to ourselves as well?



The bottom line to your first question is simply, it doesn't "HAVE" to be done. Even with the Reused SFX, the show stands on it's own. If it didn't, we wouldn't be here right now. There wouldn't be the following that there is, and we might be talking about Buck Rogers, or Flash Gordon. Galactica, as it was presented to us, is GOOD TV. The limitations of tech and money at the time required the reuse of the Permiere's SFX in the show, so that's what we got. But the thing to remember is the Story was told by the actors, not the SFX. And that, other then restoring the QUality of the prints, should not be changed.

To answer your second question, If we were to update these special effects, I think the main goal, that some people are supoporting here, is to add a uniqueness to every space battle. Change establishing shots, make every battle different. Just add Variety to the SFX. Where it "needs" it the most is in the Movie version of "Mission Galactica" where they reuse the Footage of the Galactica (and Fleet) going through the Nova of Madigon to protray the Pegasus moving through a Cylon Minefield. Or in Living Legand, the reuse of the Fog hidden Frieghters from Saga for the 2 Cylon tankers.

In a way this is Reimagining the series, but the idea is to better highlight the acting of the Cast with unique SFX for them.

As you get more into restoring deleted footage and possibly inserting in dropped subplots, then you need to ask yourself more and more if we should do this.

My desire, in supporting these "fan Edits" would be to compliment, not replace the originals. I love David Kerin's fan edits, The work of one man, who obviously loves the show as it was, and wants to put new highlights into the work. If we could get more people working on the same project, we could refine that work to "broadcast quailty" and try to present it to more fans.

That's how I would answer your Questions BST.

gmd3d
May 12th, 2010, 07:33 AM
Now, I have several questions.

Except for updating the master copy of the Galactica shows on a medium more durable than currently being used, why is it necessary to "update" the originals with new footage?

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

We all know how others who "re-imagined" things named Galactica were vilified so, will we be doing that to ourselves as well?

But, I feel that it is simply an indication of what can be done, not necessarily what should be done.

I think that some of the problem here is that we all have different ideas of what updating could mean ...

For me I look at it in a few ways or possible approaches that can be done.


1st. A straight clean up and enhancement of what there already is possibly the most agreeable to every one.. for example the last DVD set looks as it there was an attempt to enhance it.. for me it was let down.

if you see the screen capture I posted you can see the model arm and that awful glowing around the ship.. that should not be there ..

2nd. Removing the old effects and either film it with the original models (possibly very few would be still available) using more modern techniques to show off the models and effect to the fullest staying as close to the original camera angles as possible.

esp the Vipers landing that shows the scale a lot better of the hanger and other aspects of the internal lay out if possible.

3rd. same as number 2 but doing it in CGI and attempt to clean up the original to reflect the more modern filming standards and keeping the camera angles as close to the original as possible.

4th. Cgi keeping as above (3rd) but adding some tweaks to expand the experience. ie close ups of Vipers and other craft operating around the Battlestar, Cgi the hanger bay having crew men working around it as Vipers land etc.

showing laser placements and not having the laser look as if there coming from the same place all the time

5th. Cgi completely expand the look and feel as much as possible new camera angles ... thatīs all I can thing of at the moment


When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

if we take say option (3rd) using the same camera angles using say CGI staying as true to the original as possible giving due care to what's all ready done giving better scaling for objects ....... I think this would keep the all happy about it.

the film-makers themselves made visual cheats to deal with time restraints would it not be great to see it as they would have like to have done it.

personally I like watching the reworked Star Wars trilogy... more than the original due to the improvements to the quality of the new effect . (things I donīt like its the tampering with some aspect of the live action..( ie Han Solos shooting second in the Cantina But I like where he is running down the hall screaming after some storm trooper and then he faces a whole platoon of troopers .. )

Matador
May 12th, 2010, 08:03 AM
Well my thoughts regarding this are that a Blue-ray release of the Original BSG would include the original, untouched versions of the show.

But would also include a remastered version... Cleaned up, color corrected, with a few (not a lot), but a few dynamic scenes added. Especially the battle scenes with Vipers and Raiders.

I watched an interview with Larson once and he at the time wished more could have been added, but due to budget and time constraints (getting a weekly show created) caused them to rush a few things. Hence the reuse of those awesome special effects. Over and over again. Many of them only lasting but a few seconds... I remember the actors discussing how they would have to carefully speak their dialog, because they only had a few seconds before the EFX scene in background would run out.

I too love the original shots, models, and external scenes... "I do know" that if Larson was able to do what he really wanted, the scenes would have been much more dynamic.

I just would love to see the show cleaned up to it's original state. The most effecient way would be digitally.

I agree that I wouldn't want to go overboard with new efx or scenes...

But the benefit would be to have both, the original untouched and remastered on a blue-ray edition.

Bottom line is that you don't have to watch it if you don't like it.:cool:

gmd3d
May 12th, 2010, 08:14 AM
Well my thoughts regarding this are that a Blue-ray release of the Original BSG would include the original, untouched versions of the show.

But would also include a remastered version... Cleaned up, color corrected, with a few (not a lot), but a few dynamic scenes added. Especially the battle scenes with Vipers and Raiders.

I watched an interview with Larson once and he at the time wished more could have been added, but due to budget and time constraints (getting a weekly show created) caused them to rush a few things. Hence the reuse of those awesome special effects. Over and over again. Many of them only lasting but a few seconds... I remember the actors discussing how they would have to carefully speak their dialog, because they only had a few seconds before the EFX scene in background would run out.

I too love the original shots, models, and external scenes... "I do know" that if Larson was able to do what he really wanted, the scenes would have been much more dynamic.

I just would love to see the show cleaned up to it's original state. The most effecient way would be digitally.

I agree that I wouldn't want to go overboard with new efx or scenes...

But the benefit would be to have both, the original untouched and remastered on a blue-ray edition.

Bottom line is that you don't have to watch it if you don't like it.:cool:


First I donīt know even if I said hi to you Matador..or even welcomed you aboard .. so I will do it now ............."Hi and Welcome aboard" :)

I agree with you on this .... it would be better to have it than not to have it
I personally done believe it will come from the studios as they lack the vision for BSG anyway ..... I read the same thing years ago about Larson wish to have had time to have more effects done

but they where always fighting time .. the enemy for all TV and to a lesser extent films....

it is my thinking that this has not dawned on Larson himself or perhaps it has.. I donīt know .. hell he even may have approached the studios with the idea after seen star wars and the studio said sod off ......

to ensure a commercial future for the classic Galactica something should be done .. that is my thinking .

time will tell

but by then it will perhaps be to late to do anything as KJ mentioned film stock does not last even Lucas had some difficulties.

KJ
May 12th, 2010, 11:56 AM
If its alright to respond then!


Well my thoughts regarding this are that a Blue-ray release of the Original BSG would include the original, untouched versions of the show*.

But would also include a remastered version... Cleaned up, color corrected, with a few (not a lot), but a few dynamic scenes added. Especially the battle scenes with Vipers and Raiders*.

I watched an interview with Larson once and he at the time wished more could have been added, but due to budget and time constraints (getting a weekly show created) caused them to rush a few things. Hence the reuse of those awesome special effects. Over and over again. Many of them only lasting but a few seconds... I remember the actors discussing how they would have to carefully speak their dialog, because they only had a few seconds before the EFX scene in background would run out.

I too love the original shots, models, and external scenes... "I do know" that if Larson was able to do what he really wanted, the scenes would have been much more dynamic.

I just would love to see the show cleaned up to it's original state. The most effecient way would be digitally.

I agree that I wouldn't want to go overboard with new efx or scenes...



So with you on these shared thoughts*! But i won't reiterate them yet again ad nauseam for the sake of going around in circles etc.

Think thats been made quite clear more than enough. Whats bugging us is that we're aren't moving forward from that statement from the opposing-side, think our thoughts on the matter required something like an 'outline' and have each restoration idea and concept examined as a flowchart of certain elements that needs addressing as such.

This is the last observation I am going to make on this and its something that Eric and like minded members are thinking

it is this

with all due respect to your position

1. do you think future generations will accept BSG in it current condition as a going concern and completely watch-able show in say another 10 years time.
and who knows where technology will be then.

2. and given that younger viewers are bombarded with more modern visuals effect films and tv shows.

and lets be honest most modern films / tv are filmed around special effects now and the characters are secondary importance.

you watch them and forget them ..... BSG has survived because the story and the Characters are interesting and fun and Entertaining!!!!!


Exactly what needs to be necessitated quite soon if what we're fearing in terms of the negatives being in a poor state after so long. I look forward to and certainly wish, somebody who was involved with the production comes up; ala 'Steve Sansweet' does for Lucasfilm and says much more footage was filmed but wasn't aired etc. Or that the process of restoring such elements for Battlestar Galactica is possible and it isn't too late.


to ensure a commercial future for the classic Galactica something should be done .. that is my thinking

YES THANK THE LORDS!! we're on the same page! :salute:

Er... we're not putting words in each others mouths but i'm just excited in how Taranis phrased all that is all!

Akin to Star Trek Remastered that what truly needs to come about and happen for the Battlestar Galactica fanbase. Heck that why i think so many fan projects exist on the net, because they chance all that legal mumbo-jumbo and try doing so themselves!

So here are some examples we could learn from in terms of how the comparison would be if the Blu-Ray offering gave us the Original & Remastered version on a disc. Shot by shot and minor changes that doesn't alter the story one bit, but definitely give a different perspective of the same action taking place.


Side By Side Comparison of Star Trek Errand Of Mercy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-VOMWPt2So&feature=related


Star Trek Side By Side Comparison of A Piece Of The Action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=camqhNDIGjY&feature=related


Tribbles BAR FIGHT Side-by-Side Comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6KGOkzbf_c&feature=related


COMPARISON-The Tholian Web

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l44Xrsgonw&feature=related


Further examples to come? Not all Trek related ones neither

KJ

Eric Paddon
May 12th, 2010, 12:50 PM
(Edited hokum deleted)

gmd3d
May 12th, 2010, 01:13 PM
Akin to Star Trek Remastered that what truly needs to come about and happen for the Battlestar Galactica fanbase. Heck that why i think so many fan projects exist on the net, because they chance all that legal mumbo-jumbo and try doing so themselves!

So here are some examples we could learn from in terms of how the comparison would be if the Blu-Ray offering gave us the Original & Remastered version on a disc. Shot by shot and minor changes that doesn't alter the story one bit, but definitely give a different perspective of the same action taking place.



KJ

it is a good way to also place the TOS BSG back into the collective minds and those that where introduced to BSG by the new show. effect wise with new audiences there is no comparison ,, Effects wise . ( I am not starting a GINO debate here just a observation )

If as Larson was saying on a recent interview I saw on the web (link post here some where ) that he has a new BSG movie in the work (we can hope)

it will also have new effect and I am almost 99 % sure it will be CGI ..
giving the classics a fresh look would be a solid idea too..

hopefully attracting new younger fans now watching SW and such more adventures of a different nature. with stories as deep and as rich as any currently out there..

KJ
May 12th, 2010, 02:11 PM
Seriously Paddon stop being a nuance to everybody with your garbage as its getting beyond ridiculous now.

I have no desire to keep this particular bit of the conversation going

Yes you do hence your still at it. Have the strength of character to walk away if you don't want to address it anymore. After that last bit i'm quite sure i don't have to respond, and i don't reckon even BST will let that "lie remark" slide neither.

The unpleasantness originated with you

Wrong again pal, since you've been on here you've been nothing but vindictive and ignorant with remarks and opinions towards me and in general your a pain to deal with anyways. While i've been posting from the beginning (OR DID YOU MISS THAT BLATANT FACTOID) hello? I've stated for the record, that i won't ruin it for anybody on here after BST comments, and i won't so i'll let Taranis and folks handle the comments until the discussion bears some wild imagination from as many members as possible who want to get involved.

I will not react passively.

:rolleyes:

Oh really! Take this nonsense elsewhere's we don't need it on here. Least i was genuinely annoyed by your attitude, now your coming out with threatening behavior. See if anybody sides with you now?

But how nice of you to direct that at me after BST warning though? ;)

Moving on...

If as Larson was saying on a recent interview I saw on the web (link post here some where ) that he has a new BSG movie in the work (we can hope)

Do you mean this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6vc0zcY0ao&feature=player_embedded

it is a good way to also place the TOS BSG back into the collective minds and those that where introduced to BSG by the new show. effect wise with new audiences there is no comparison ,, Effects wise . ( I am not starting a GINO debate here just a observation )

Right with the drive and passion behind it with the right crew it'll be something to regain some new recognition for the franchise!

Far as supporting your arguments Taranis, while different from ST Remastered Space 2099 is also journeying into that realm or enhancements so it too falls into this catagory of ours.

Hope its helpful as a example point and further pushes your viewpoints out there.

http://www.space2099.tv/video/video_05.htm

More to come

KJ

KJ
May 12th, 2010, 02:19 PM
P.S. Love Larson's interview, man's got sense. I certainly wish him well attempting do Galactica as a movie, and if he's that aware of the fanbase split hope he is also aware of the passion we've got for the series as of today!

KJ

Eric Paddon
May 12th, 2010, 02:20 PM
Seriously Paddon stop being a nuance to everybody with your garbage as its getting beyond ridiculous now.

Being a "nuance"? Not a very well-nuanced sentence! ;)

Yes you do hence your still at it. Have the strength of character to walk away if you don't want to address it anymore.

What a laugh, coming from the person who AFTER there was a moderator's comment about not getting personal then chose to extend the middle finger to that because he just felt like it. If hypocrisy were an Olympic event, you'd have a gold medal by now. And you then choose to keep unloading your crap aimed at me not even in response to posts I made but so you could keep lying about the nature of my initial posts in your discussions with others. I made posts about a POV that was relevant to the issue and was having a civil discussion. You chose to be petty and vindictive because you evidently have a hang-up regarding a contrary POV on this subject and you've then chosen to perpetuate things with more hit jobs and more lies regarding my posts and my character. That is the definition of a disgrace.

*****Wrong again pal, since you've been on here you've been nothing but vindictive and ignorant with remarks and opinions towards me and in general your a pain to deal with anyways. *****

Thank you for that telling admission that it's personal grudges you harbored beforehand that made you decide to engage in a hit job instead of a conversation that Reaper, Taranis etc. were able to do.

Darrell Lawrence
May 12th, 2010, 02:23 PM
Knock it off, both of you! :mad:

KJ
May 12th, 2010, 02:29 PM
Knock what off exactly Warrior? Did you see my last P.S. post or not. :mad::mad:

Like i said, i'll be back when Taranis and others continue on without me, i'm big enough to leave it. Let Paddon hang himself cos he doing quite fine without me as we speak. But i've clearly moved on, so mind saying it as it is rather than drawn me back in with him. And go and address his nonsense, not me.

Thank you! :/:

KJ

Darrell Lawrence
May 12th, 2010, 02:38 PM
I'm addressing BOTH of you. Do NOT reply to each other in this thread, period. It takes two to tango, and you're one of them.

KJ
May 12th, 2010, 02:43 PM
And i'm addressing you right back, get your facts right when its bloody obvious the guy's just doesn't get it!

Watch each and every post regardless if i'm tangoing, i kinda got pulled onto the dance floor here, o.k.

KJ

Darrell Lawrence
May 12th, 2010, 02:57 PM
You replied to him, KJ... AFTER a Moderator had came in and ave a time out.

Do not respond to me. Just move on in your discussion. Period.

KJ
May 12th, 2010, 03:26 PM
Yeah and after said Moderator came in, LOOK at what he's allowed to put down so aggressively! And don't make the situation much worse, by saying we're both tango-ing. Please? If anything i've actually DID move on and engaged in the conversation present with comments and link requests, but soon as he's on the 4th page with us once more he drags the topics down with him and the outright "tone", of the place changes once more!

I might be responding, but not to the detriment of others on purpose, whereas he can't control his actions or 'mouth'.

So please do yourselves a real huge favor and acknowledge that fact rather than running from it, each time he bounces in here! Saying 'two to tango' is hardly a mature way of addressing anything?

Do not respond to me. Just move on in your discussion. Period

Don't respond to me either then!!! Cos you're gonna go with him anyways despite his garbage. Nah! LOOK i'm out period. In the meantime i'm gone o.k., cos i can see where this is obviously going. And i DID move on, pity for some they just can't let it go or acknowledge his disruptive actions everytime he's in here.

Taranis & Matador wishing you well my friends! :thumbsup:

You have my blessing in whatever you'll bring up on here! PM if you want anything on those links and articles we've chatted about.

KJ

Darrell Lawrence
May 12th, 2010, 03:29 PM
KJ, enjoy your vacation. YOU do not tell the OWNER of the site what to do. Your OWN behavior is what is getting you this.

3 days.

Reaper
May 12th, 2010, 04:19 PM
BST, I know a couple of us have now answered the questions for you, but if I may ask, what are your feelings on the issue?

Concider it me asking you the same questions if you like :)

BST
May 12th, 2010, 05:49 PM
BST, I know a couple of us have now answered the questions for you, but if I may ask, what are your feelings on the issue?

Concider it me asking you the same questions if you like .



Thanks, Reaper. I'd love to share some thougts about this.

Except for updating the master copy of the Galactica shows on a medium more durable than currently being used, why is it necessary to "update" the originals with new footage?

In response to this first question, I would say that I'm against selectively updating the originals with new footage because I don't like the idea of updating canon. I think that such updates may change the dynamic of the show.

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

This question was a definite poke at what was done with another show called Galactica, produced by the SciFi channel. The uproar, here and elsewhere in the TOS world, about the re-imagining was my primary motivation in posing this question. Does the wish for these so-called "updates" equate to "re-imagining" and do we now think that it's ok since we're the ones championing the idea? Personally, I think that it does, especially if it involves the use of scenes that can change the tone and dynamic of the show and also if it involves new scenes, dialogue, etc. It's like re-writing history.

We all know how others who "re-imagined" things named Galactica were vilified so, will we be doing that to ourselves as well?

I believe that we would be "birds of a feather" with Ron Moore.

Reaper
May 12th, 2010, 06:16 PM
now that I read your answers, I do believe we talked about this on another forum. the BSG Club I believe.

I do see where you're coming from and understand the feeling. As I've told Eric off the forums, I do respect that opinion, but for me, I think we could still respect the source material and highlight some changes.

thanks for answering :) And yes, I did see where you were going with the GINO references there :)

jewels
May 12th, 2010, 10:08 PM
Eric will also be getting a vacation for editing a mod.

Jewels

gmd3d
May 13th, 2010, 01:32 AM
Thanks, Reaper. I'd love to share some thougts about this.

Except for updating the master copy of the Galactica shows on a medium more durable than currently being used, why is it necessary to "update" the originals with new footage?

In response to this first question, I would say that I'm against selectively updating the originals with new footage because I don't like the idea of updating canon. I think that such updates may change the dynamic of the show.

When "updating" the original scene with what you "think it should look like" or "want it to look like", isn't that the same as "re-imagining" that particular scene?

This question was a definite poke at what was done with another show called Galactica, produced by the SciFi channel. The uproar, here and elsewhere in the TOS world, about the re-imagining was my primary motivation in posing this question. Does the wish for these so-called "updates" equate to "re-imagining" and do we now think that it's ok since we're the ones championing the idea? Personally, I think that it does, especially if it involves the use of scenes that can change the tone and dynamic of the show and also if it involves new scenes, dialogue, etc. It's like re-writing history.

We all know how others who "re-imagined" things named Galactica were vilified so, will we be doing that to ourselves as well?

I believe that we would be "birds of a feather" with Ron Moore.

Hi BST . the only scenes that I am think of updating are visuals effects scene , no single scene with an actor in it would be changed dialogue or other wise. only visually enhanced so that it will be persevered for a future if it need it.

updating the effects would have no baring of the over all story only in a visual sense and would not, in my mind change the over all impact of the show, save for the new clearer effects

its my personal conviction that it will only help and insuring its future ..

again I will say that the Visual effects are not standing the test of time, while still exciting (if used to much in the Series)

younger viewers now are been brought up on current shows .. (insert name here) are looking at modern visuals which are clear and are for the most part exciting. watching it once would possibly no impact on some one seeing it for the first time. but we all have watched it many times ...

and it the subsequent viewing are the test now for shows .... they never thought like in other shows about future DVDS and other High Definition hard ware etc.

Will our classic show stand up to that in the years to come ...... while the stories and the characters are always watchable and entertaining.

I cannot say the effects that help to drive the show (its is sci-fi after all.) are not holding up well ....... and thus shortening the battlestar shelf and sales life.

younger Viewers demand more now I think ......

what surprised me is the resistance to the idea, even if the new shots where done the same either with the same models or cgi (as much as possible).

Darrell Lawrence
May 13th, 2010, 02:31 AM
^^^What he said^^^

BST
May 13th, 2010, 06:15 AM
Well, truth be known, there are actually a scene or two that I think could be "improved" but, I just don't like getting too comfortable with the idea of updating canon. ( I absolutely do NOT like when 'updates' are made like the one in Return of the Jedi, at the celebration, where Hayden Christiansen's "spirit" image replaced that of Sebastian Shaw. )

The one scene that I think could be harmlessly updated and actually improve the overall sequence is the final assualt on the 2 base ships by the Pegasus. My suggestion for an improvement would be to actually insert footage of the missiles, on a trajectory toward the base ships, and to also clean up the laser shots.

Another would be the shield effect, projected from the Galactica, during the missile launches by the Terrans and the Eastern Alliance. That "blue thing" has always looked a little hokey to me.

Reaper
May 13th, 2010, 06:32 AM
BST, that's most, if not all I'd want to change. I made a few other suggestons earlier of effects taht I'd change as well.

I did say that I wouldn't support changing any dialog, or the acting scenes themselves. That is the core of Each show and that Core is what made us all fans.

And I HATE the replacement of Shaw at the end of Jedi. It's a HUGE mistake.

BST
May 13th, 2010, 06:37 AM
BST, that's most, if not all I'd want to change. I made a few other suggestons earlier of effects taht I'd change as well.

I did say that I wouldn't support changing any dialog, or the acting scenes themselves. That is the core of Each show and that Core is what made us all fans.

And I HATE the replacement of Shaw at the end of Jedi. It's a HUGE mistake.

[yoda on]Ah, smart cookie, you are.......In agreement, I am.[yoda off]

:D

gmd3d
May 13th, 2010, 07:08 AM
Well, truth be known, there are actually a scene or two that I think could be "improved" but, I just don't like getting too comfortable with the idea of updating canon. ( I absolutely do NOT like when 'updates' are made like the one in Return of the Jedi, at the celebration, where Hayden Christiansen's "spirit" image replaced that of Sebastian Shaw. )

The one scene that I think could be harmlessly updated and actually improve the overall sequence is the final assualt on the 2 base ships by the Pegasus. My suggestion for an improvement would be to actually insert footage of the missiles, on a trajectory toward the base ships, and to also clean up the laser shots.

Another would be the shield effect, projected from the Galactica, during the missile launches by the Terrans and the Eastern Alliance. That "blue thing" has always looked a little hokey to me.

all good points .. I to never liked the replacement of Shaw in RTOJ ,, Hayden Christensen was unaware of the change... while I like some symbolic aspects of the addition .... if I had some input for the effect ( Lucas no doubt thought it was a good idea ) I would have had the younger Skywalker (Christensen) slowly morph or change back to older Skywalker (Shaw) keeping both. in away allowing Luke see both the young man and the older. :)

but some of you own observations tally with mine ... the character scenes should be untouched apart from a clean up or modernization for the digital technology...

the only areas I am talking about is the space ships and other effects.

the viper scene that always fustrated me was where Apollo flies around the Cylon Tanker . you can plainly see the transparent support. I saw that the first time I saw the film ...

I donīt mean to or want to pull the film apart but if its something that I am annoyed by . I sure there are other fans too, that just try to ignore it and carry on watching regardless. when there is the means (relatively cheaply now with CGI) to address these errors

and I like stories with good characters and the effects secondary. but the effect have to live up to the story .. and they are not !!. modern viewers focus more on effect and while the films are hits .. they are sooner or later forgotten.

gmd3d
May 13th, 2010, 07:13 AM
[yoda on]Ah, smart cookie, you are.......In agreement, I am.[yoda off]

:D

Cookie ,, Hmmm:drool::drool:

Reaper
May 13th, 2010, 07:49 AM
off the top of my head, The only Acting scene I would touch is actually just a reedit. In Living Legend, You hafve Apollo and Starbuck in Cain's office, They talk, then move to the Galacticafor cain's welcoming. Adama offers Cain to relax aboard. But the next scene, they are unexplicably back on Pegasus and Cain talks abotu Sheba and Cassie. I'd put that back in the original order. I klnow Mission galactica has this edited correctly.

Like I said, this is the ONLY editing change I can forsee wanting.

gmd3d
May 16th, 2010, 03:51 AM
I never really thought the actors scene need an editing change .. I have to look at that again ....

Eric Paddon
May 19th, 2010, 10:25 PM
off the top of my head, The only Acting scene I would touch is actually just a reedit. In Living Legend, You hafve Apollo and Starbuck in Cain's office, They talk, then move to the Galacticafor cain's welcoming. Adama offers Cain to relax aboard. But the next scene, they are unexplicably back on Pegasus and Cain talks abotu Sheba and Cassie. I'd put that back in the original order. I klnow Mission galactica has this edited correctly.

Like I said, this is the ONLY editing change I can forsee wanting.

I have to disagree on this, because when I saw the sequence unspool in Mission:Galactica, it just struck me as inappropriate that the first thing Cain would be asking about would be Cassiopeia. It made more sense and made Cain seem more appropriately cautious that he wouldn't make such an inquiry until afterwards. In fact, I think what likely didn't work was having an establishing shot of the Pegasus before that conversation, and it might have been better for this to have been taking place in the VIP quarters aboard the Galactica (and Cain thus would have just brought over his own holo messages).

peter noble
May 23rd, 2010, 04:32 AM
I've tinkered with LL and the Mission footage for about three years.

After reading Eric's comment, I finally used the LL cuts of the scenes but moved the hologram scene directly after the "the Cylon Empire is about to fall" speech but split by the establishing shot of the Pegasus. I feel comfortable with it now.

I can agree with Eric comment but it feels stupid having the scene later on in the broadcast ep.

Matador
May 23rd, 2010, 08:37 AM
Hello all. For some reason I was not able to get access to this site for a few days... It was apparently down. I'm glad it's back up.

Some mentioned the ROTJ scene at the end with Hadden. I agree... Bad move. I thought that really made no sense... Why have old OBI-wan, old Yoda, and young Anakin.

Anyhew, back to Remastered BSG... I would agree that adding a more dynamic scene with Pegasus going all out against two Base Stars would be awesome to see.

This is very do-able.

For anyone interested... I started working on the CG model of Galactica/Pegasus.

I've just got the main shape of the old girl down (Galactica). I'll start adding detail a bit later.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p0L1b5DM2NqeOk2js8NB4IT-zZZTJDzfmdX3ZyUOcIRv6-LC9TSR4w-Z1g1QpS6ZIkkfEMhw6vfgaWq8iBmfKqw/GalacticaA.jpg

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pHCSuPvrdACV8pv_0u8ArqAnneJmal8-PhYApoRwwjvIw27GDR5l9AiEWkiIs0QB2ZYNI4vy8WlF-LxY_mThH7g/GalacticaI.jpg

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pyQILznvFZfxT7XltenalmdmlEVfeY2hrx1dAtZVESO7j1k4AAcBRnroue5GJLsBWdQ_b9BdajdpoOAnLdjgc6g/GalacticaE.jpg

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pEBDR6uU0TQaqdOLNesmXPXTcmJ5I8lpf7eC9Gcj22Y_kqDq_dHmeD4LRvMIL1xfSH6_9uV3fe8XhgGLnm59BcQ/GalacticaD.jpg

gmd3d
May 24th, 2010, 04:47 AM
Hello all. For some reason I was not able to get access to this site for a few days... It was apparently down. I'm glad it's back up.

Some mentioned the ROTJ scene at the end with Hadden. I agree... Bad move. I thought that really made no sense... Why have old OBI-wan, old Yoda, and young Anakin.

Anyhew, back to Remastered BSG... I would agree that adding a more dynamic scene with Pegasus going all out against two Base Stars would be awesome to see.

This is very do-able.

For anyone interested... I started working on the CG model of Galactica/Pegasus.

I've just got the main shape of the old girl down (Galactica). I'll start adding detail a bit later.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p0L1b5DM2NqeOk2js8NB4IT-zZZTJDzfmdX3ZyUOcIRv6-LC9TSR4w-Z1g1QpS6ZIkkfEMhw6vfgaWq8iBmfKqw/GalacticaA.jpg

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pHCSuPvrdACV8pv_0u8ArqAnneJmal8-PhYApoRwwjvIw27GDR5l9AiEWkiIs0QB2ZYNI4vy8WlF-LxY_mThH7g/GalacticaI.jpg

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pyQILznvFZfxT7XltenalmdmlEVfeY2hrx1dAtZVESO7j1k4AAcBRnroue5GJLsBWdQ_b9BdajdpoOAnLdjgc6g/GalacticaE.jpg

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pEBDR6uU0TQaqdOLNesmXPXTcmJ5I8lpf7eC9Gcj22Y_kqDq_dHmeD4LRvMIL1xfSH6_9uV3fe8XhgGLnm59BcQ/GalacticaD.jpg
Good start on the Big G ..... the site had a crash but looks ok now

Matador
May 24th, 2010, 03:58 PM
Good start on the Big G ..... the site had a crash but looks ok now

Thanks... Working on the detail stuff now. Whew! lots of work on that part.

Should have some cool updates soon.

Matador:salute:

gmd3d
May 25th, 2010, 01:26 AM
Thanks... Working on the detail stuff now. Whew! lots of work on that part.

Should have some cool updates soon.

Matador:salute:

yeah . good luck with that .. there a tons of details

Matador
May 25th, 2010, 11:17 PM
OK, here is an update.

Just mostly messing around with scaling and adding just a tad of detail work to see were I am going to go with this.

There is some green stuff highlighting some of the areas in this shot. This will be removed. And yes that's a tiny viper in the scene. Just there for scaling purposes.
http://oqudnw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pcAueM777PLV57QUX8w1ScdWVyRBaBOTt7tb4JBo74o3vv1lxkl2tWhTkeQqXwq6UHkyZslvFmODUKg1WhwTKCQ6OGYVgXBp5/GalacticaP.jpg

Here is another shot of the launch tubes and a Viper along side.
http://oqudnw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pkJ820m2tqUg96ftkjc6ya7aVq75LqozwD6d2B3lkUhVltoRydSNx8NEz-xLvjduD8SuSjjo9ZStzzMQWexPtVP0nUGXujgDG/GalacticaN.jpg

This one just gives a small idea of the scale of Galactica.
http://oqudnw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pKv2pBDYB9A8Guoh62xTS8OjX9YkcYmV7zo_VU0Kjx3BMwvNWV5L9EuLBu8WP0InmPYG6duFlezuArLRYDQS_Fovo_bgC0r1h/GalacticaK.jpg

gmd3d
May 26th, 2010, 01:05 AM
OK, here is an update.

Just mostly messing around with scaling and adding just a tad of detail work to see were I am going to go with this.

There is some green stuff highlighting some of the areas in this shot. This will be removed. And yes that's a tiny viper in the scene. Just there for scaling purposes.
http://oqudnw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pcAueM777PLV57QUX8w1ScdWVyRBaBOTt7tb4JBo74o3vv1lxkl2tWhTkeQqXwq6UHkyZslvFmODUKg1WhwTKCQ6OGYVgXBp5/GalacticaP.jpg

Here is another shot of the launch tubes and a Viper along side.
http://oqudnw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pkJ820m2tqUg96ftkjc6ya7aVq75LqozwD6d2B3lkUhVltoRydSNx8NEz-xLvjduD8SuSjjo9ZStzzMQWexPtVP0nUGXujgDG/GalacticaN.jpg

This one just gives a small idea of the scale of Galactica.
http://oqudnw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pKv2pBDYB9A8Guoh62xTS8OjX9YkcYmV7zo_VU0Kjx3BMwvNWV5L9EuLBu8WP0InmPYG6duFlezuArLRYDQS_Fovo_bgC0r1h/GalacticaK.jpg

Great update :thumbsup:.. but you really should start your own thread in the Arts section and in the In Progress area ....