Battlesex Galslustia

[thomas7g]

Well now... Michael can verify or disclaim this about the script, but I received a partial review from someone called Tsukaki Chan.

This person said in the review they couldn't get past page 26 of the first nights script, and that wasn't even a 4th of the way through the first night's script.

By Page 26, two full sex scenes have taken place, and a third is being set up.

There is but ONE battlestar (the rest were already destroyed. We won't see the battle they were destroyed in), ONE classic Viper (Adama's saved from a junk yard!), a new ship called a Raptor (gee... didn't Enterprise just introduce Raptors?), Boomer is a girl as well as Starbuck, and Starbuck and Tigh are in a FIST fight!

[LucianG]

This is even more disappointing than I expected, but based on SciFi's recent record, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. This script keeps moving the new mini-series farther and farther from the show we love.

And Warrior, who the heck is Raquel Darrian? From the way you suggested it, is this a star of the adult-film industry? If not, I apologize to Ms. Darrian for the suggestion, but if so and if the description is correct, we may end up with a Blue Squadron filled with such personalities.

[Titon]

See what i mean Tom.

Just like when i tuned in Taken for the first time last night and what do i see, a sex scene.

Typical hollywood hormonal balance.

[SS1]

Star Trek:Nemesis had it's first sex scene between 2 major characters,Riker and Troi. The scene didn't show any T and A but never the less the scene was pretty racey in my opinion.

I am not too bothered by all the sex scenes in Moore's script (probably because I am not planning on watching) but It will be a disapointment for those who were planning on watching with the entire family.

So it looks like Boomer lost his balls as well.

[SS1]

was way racier. That tub scene in Insurection was G rated. Did you see the movie yet Warrior?

[havoc315]

If the description of the Six/Baltar scene is acurate, then I think it has a bit of promise. I don't think a new BSG should have gratuitous sex scenes... skin for the sake of showing skin.

But this sounds like a key point of the story (I still doubt the censors will allow it). This isn't just Baltar and Six having sex..... It is Six dominating Baltar, controlling him, driving him mad through passion.

I would have to wait and see how it's handled on the screen, if it ever makes the screen, but so far it doesn't sound like a bad concept.

[crash4587]

Gee, I can't remember hearing of a sex scene in Tom's script?

[Stevew]

BSG does not need any sex scenes period. If some one needs that stuff there are plenty of places to go, not BSG
IMHO
Steve

[havoc315]

Steve.... so you would prefer that the original BSG have its sex scene removed? (clearly see Starbuck and Cassiopia starting up)

[vmnjn]

Battlestar Galactica: The Lex Effect

[dah66]

I've written many letters over the years asking for the return of Galactica. To the best my recollection, I never asked for them to bring it back so that I could see Baltar having sex with a Cylon.

The 'sex' in the original series was no more offensive then any random episode of the Love Boat.

What I'm hearing about the remake is disappointing. This doesn't sound like a show that I can watch with my family. My daughter is roughly the same age as I was when the original premiered. I was hoping to share this with her. Guess not.

[crash4587]

Originally posted by dah66
I've written many letters over the years asking for the return of Galactica. To the best my recollection, I never asked for them to bring it back so that I could see Baltar having sex with a Cylon.

The 'sex' in the original series was no more offensive then any random episode of the Love Boat.

What I'm hearing about the remake is disappointing. This doesn't sound like a show that I can watch with my family. My daughter is roughly the same age as I was when the original premiered. I was hoping to share this with her. Guess not. They are missing the point of a parent shareing something that they loved with there child:mad:

[michaelfaries]

Thomas is totally right on all points, save that there are other original Colonial Vipers seen... and naturally there's MUCH more happening than what he's saying, too. The ironic part: "Battlesex Galactica" is an apt substitute title. "Battlestar Dysfunctional" is my own sarcastic name for the remake series.

Boomer (her call sign) = Sharon Valerii

My script review is nearly complete. It need to be reviewed by my source first, then I'll post it on my web sites.

Michael
:colwar:

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by havoc315
Steve.... so you would prefer that the original BSG have its sex scene removed? (clearly see Starbuck and Cassiopia starting up)
The difference here is: We don't have Cylons straddling and trying to f_ck a Colonial Warrior (in the opening sequence) and actually f_cking/f_cking around with a Colonial civilian (Baltar) more than once as SPECIFICALLY CITED within the script.

From full-on sexual intercourse to handjobs, they are VERY very visual elements within the script. I'll let my forthcoming review discuss this further.

This BG remake is not a show which my children will be watching. There was an innocence to the original series where we didn't see sex taking place. Children, both then and now, can watch the 1978 pilot and gloss over the Starbuck/Cassiopeia scene in the launch tube, imho, without fully understanding what's happening. Even the "socialator" reference is lost on early youth.

Michael
:colwar:

[vmnjn]

I think that is what is going to really hurt me. While intimacy was implied in the original BG, it was not graphic. In fact IIRC the best part of Starbuck and Cassiopea in the launch tube was when Athena? vented the intakes? It had the element of intimacy but also added humor.

There does not seem to be any humor in BG:Redo.

Mixing in all these "relationships" will add alot of "soap opera" to taking the opera out of space opera. Anyone else get the feeling that that any old scifi show would have gotten the same treatment from Moore? Is BG becoming a victim of being at the wrong place at the right time?

So if he is going for the realistic approach is he going to have no gravity on the ship? Will these people be "getting some cylon" in zero g? Also if the cylons are horny cyborgs will their organ be in the right place? Will there be a hydralic sound effect for it? Are the cylons going to become a blatant rip off of Star Trek's borg?

If so will we get to look forward to law suits from Paramount?

I really hope I am wrong about this, but it sounds like there will be no "family fun" to watching BG. I might even half to put the wife to bed before I watch it.

[ojai22]

By changing Starbuck to a woman he makes it look like Starbuck is coming out of the closet. Like he was gay all along. Which casts a different light on the old relationship of Apollo and Starbuck. He's reaching back and corrupting the original. Now Boomer is coming out of the closet as well.

People write what they know.

[Stevew]

Havoc
Kindly stop trying to spin what I say, this homy won't play that. There is a big difference in what was in BSG and what occurs today. There were no SEX scenes in BSG and what ever intimate scenes there were, were done with class. LEXX is an example of over the edge for Sci-fi IMHO. It would do nothing for BSG. Well put Michael
S:mad:

[jewels]

Originally posted by Stevew
BSG does not need any sex scenes period. If some one needs that stuff there are plenty of places to go, not BSG
IMHO
Steve
I am so glad I'm not the only one that feels that way!! (and the way the censors forced TOS Cassi's/Starbuck's Launch tube scene to be redone was fine by me, otherwise back in '78 my mother would've changed that channel Soooo fast my head would still be spinning and I'd never have gotten to see another viper fly, etc.).

I echo crash's sentiment: it is disappointing to not be able to share something from our childhood with our kids because someone thinks sex sells to the younger crowd. :mad:

Meantime there's this whole movement of thousands (might even be millions by now) of teens committing to wait until they are married to experience sex. More power to them for respecting themselves more than their culture does.
Jewels

[thomas7g]

I'm really appalled that they would throw in sex to try to make it more interesting for me.

Like I said, someone is misunderstanding what I find compelling in Galactica.

[thomas7g]

btw.... that Cylon seems a cheap gimick in the 7 of 9 "look at a big tits and a tight ass" kind of character. Basically a way of looking at your Playboy but your parents won't yell at you cause it's just scifi.

While I am not one to argue about adding sexyness to BG, I think its mandatory to do it with some sense of style.

[havoc315]

Originally posted by thomas7g
btw.... that Cylon seems a cheap gimick in the 7 of 9 "look at a big tits and a tight ass" kind of character. Basically a way of looking at your Playboy but your parents won't yell at you cause it's just scifi.

While I am not one to argue about adding sexyness to BG, I think its mandatory to do it with some sense of style.

Like when the original BSG had all the pretty females wear super-tight flight suits before they could become Viper pilots?

[thomas7g]

that was a little cheesy :)

but there is a difference between showing a tight suit for one funny scene and designing a character whose purpose is for you to stare at her breasts all day.

[thomas7g]

btw- I wouldn't be so offended by making Lucifer into a female if not for the fact that after you make starbuck and boomer sexy wenches, everything else just really creates a mountain of evidence that this is too much a sex romp.

I don't mind if the story leads to a little impiled sex, that is part of the story, but I get annoyed that you specifically design a show for showing it.

[Stevew]

Look Havoc as usual you are trying to mix apples and oranges. Have you listened to anything? There is a big difference between sex and sexy so if you can't see that, It must be the attorny or that you are truly a plant. Most everything I have read about the remake sucks and should have no connection with BSG. Call it something else for crying out loud, maybe "Starball-less" that would fit
S:mad:

[havoc315]

From what I'm hearing, it sounds like the new BSG, at least the script, will have far more explicit sex than the original, and perhaps more explicit sex than ever seen anywhere on basic cable.

First off, I'd be absolutely floored if the final production was that explicit, that's just not done on television, period. Yes, maybe a quick 1-second shot of Six from behind, where you can tell what she's doing... but I find it hard to believe it will be borderline pornographic..

That said, of course I expect it to be more explicit than the original BSG, which wasn't exactly totally prudish either. Audience standards, for better or worse, are far more liberal than they were 25 years ago. Shows from Buffy The Vampire Slayer to ER to NYPD Blue have fairly explicit portrayals of sex. In the last 70s, no shows approached this level. It's simply a reflection of a different time. I'm not saying its a good thing, but it is a fact. I wouldn't expect to require BSG to be any more or less prudish than any other primetime, 8 pm or 9 pm television show on network television.... Even Star Trek:Voyager, Enterprise, all had some pretty explicit stuff (I don't watch Enterprise regularly, but I did see one episode where T'Pol had a very explicit dream).

If it really does go out beyond what the FCC defines as "decent" material, of course I'll be singing a different tune. But it's also unfair to handcuff BSG with 70's television standards.

[thomas7g]

uh steve...calmness...

havoc, don't reply back to that.

This is an ADMIN speaking :D

now please return to a friendly discussion

[Artemis]

Sex scenes can be pretty funny if done right. For example, John Crighton walking in on D'Argo and Chiana. farscape/chiana.gifhttp://www.3dgladiators.com/forums/farscape/dargo.gif

[default]

Sex scenes are a part of modern TV, just a fact of life. Even Buffy, when it hit UPN took the sex scenes between Spike and Buffy and made them a bit much.

But still, not having read the scenes I can't make a judgement call on them.

What I can say this is, the more I hear about this thing, the more I miss the quirkyness of the original.

1 Battlestar? How come this hasn't gotten anyone else riled up?

[thomas7g]

Originally posted by AslanC
1 Battlestar? How come this hasn't gotten anyone else riled up?

Cause I can't get over Starbucks tits....

(and I say tits and not breasts cause in this case its more applicable)

[Titon]

To all there is one underlying thing that must be made clear, i for one want my children to watch this series to get the same enjoyment i got as a young lad watching this while *I* was growing up.

Tell me this Havoc, appropriate handle by the way, why do we need *this* type of sex? Will it make or break the Galactica franchise? Does it have to be *the* cornerstone of the new series?

Is it me or is it just a cop out by most writers today? I cannot come up with a solid script so i'll just flood it with sexual tension, not to mention sex changes.

[Stevew]

Thomas
Did not mean to get terse, it if just that there is so much of this all over TV and the movies, I will never feel that it belonge in BSG. If a male female releationship needs to be done, it can be done with class and that is not prudish, it means the camera does not belong in the bedroom
during sex. You are right Don, sex is used to make up for a bad script
S:D

[default]

Once upon a time my screenwriting teacher challenged us to write a tense script that had no guns and no sex.

Hard to do, and it is a task most of the modern screen writers couldn't achieve.

[thomas7g]

*passes Steve a bottle of fine ambrosia from the prison planet*

:D


Originally posted by AslanC
Once upon a time my screenwriting teacher challenged us to write a tense script that had no guns and no sex.

Hard to do, and it is a task most of the modern screen writers couldn't achieve.

I think that should be a requirement for anyone trying to get a writing job!!!!

[default]

Originally posted by thomas7g


I think that should be a requirement for anyone trying to get a writing job!!!!

*passes Steve a bottle of fine ambrosia from the prison plant*

:D Amen brother and pass that bottle down this way ;)

[Stevew]

Too much Ambrosia, that is what it was
Thanks
Tom
Steve(Robber) W

[Cosmic Cleric]

Originally posted by crash4587
They are missing the point of a parent shareing something that they loved with there child:mad:

EXACTLY!

[emerita]

Originally posted by Titon

Is it me or is it just a cop out by most writers today? I cannot come up with a solid script so i'll just flood it with sexual tension, not to mention sex changes.

You are right Titon.... obiviously the script sucks if they are putting sex scenes in it and they are very aware of this. The true Battlestar Galactica can hold its own without sex scenes. I realize they are trying to appeal to the younger crowd...I really think someone should tell them that most young people (and this is my opinion) these days would rather watch an action movie without sex scenes while smoking a good blunt vs. watching sex, which most of them will do after the movie anyway.....

[Stevew]

Right EM a good story will hold people with out the silly sex scenes
Steve:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[emerita]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[vmnjn]

Sorry Havoc for the topic.
I was just floored to hear about a Cylon dominatrix and wanted your view.

Wait a minute... I doubt even Scifi would go that route. After all this is the channel that brings us... Lexx. Okay... scratch that.

Darn, none of what I have to say from here can be typed in public. What's next, www.cylondominatrix.com?

[vmnjn]

Just had a "flash forward" vision.

The Cylon temptress will be played by Tracy Lords?

Her personality would fit the role.

[thomas7g]

uh.... yeah... but she brings a distasteful baggage to any show she associates with. And I'm not talking about her past.

Plus she isn't a very compelling actress.

[thomas7g]

I don't believe that our change in attitudes about sex is what is driving all the added sex scenes.

Sex is now a very DOMINANT part of the new show. Not just sex scenes, but just sexual tensions. etc. The show is now heavily based on the hot sexy male-female relationships.

This is suppose to be basically a war story. How humanity struggles against a more powerful mechanical foe. It was involved with the relationships between the people involved, and yes that included love and some sexiness.

But this new stuff is waaay overboard on the horny scale. It is at the point where the sex interferes with the story and becomes it. Its like how NYPD Blues you to throw in nude scenes to get you to watch. the scenes added nothing to the story. The story could have been told just as effectively without them. But its added as a titillation element that replaces good story.

Galactica did add its sexy g-suits scene. But what if we added a scene where Athena is in bed geting horny from reading a romance novel. Then we add a scene where the klaxon interrupts her shower so she has to fight the cylons in her towel and OOPS! that towell don't stay put when she does those high G manuevers! Oh and Boomer...having not had a romance scene in the whole show is feeling kinda gay as he looks around the locker room. Would that have added in making the old show more modern? Or would those changes just have made it suck?

Yes, the old Galactica did have its embarrassingly cheap scenes, like the fruit of the loom sports uniform or Athena in her lockerroom. But why emulate the weak crap and make it the basis of a new show?

[havoc315]

Thomas, if it reaches the level that you are discussing, then I will agree with you, that it's way overboard.

But till I actually see the show, or at the very least read the script, I can't make a judgment as to how much sex there is in proportion to the rest. I don't think a 30-second sex scene becomes the basis of a show when put next to 30-minute battle scene, which I believe we will be seeing.

Of course, I could be wrong......... and I could also be right.

I'm just surprised by the extent of fan reaction about every piece of gossip. It's as if someone said, about the original before it was produced, "it will include a robotic pet named Muffit.".... and then all the fans screaming that the whole show is going to be about a warm and cuddly robot toy who is going to be in every scene overwhelming the serious parts of the story.

Yes, th new BSG includes sex, I'm not exaactly surprised. To my knowledge, Michael is the only person here who has actually read the script and has an idea about it's proportion. I'm waiting for his review, but to be honest, I'm hoping to eventually read the script myself and draw my own conclusions.

[Stevew]

It seems that Stargate has worked quite well for the last 5-6 years without hard nose sex scenes
S:evil:

[emerita]

But now that it is on Sci-Fi, that could change.....*shudders at the thought*

Sex seems to be their way....Are these guys not in control of their hormones? What amazes me is they are trying to target an audience that spends most of their time out in bars trying to get laid. What makes them think that making a sexy show is going to keep these people at home when they can be out having real sex? The folks that are home, mostly have young children and won't be letting them watch it, so the channel will be turned...So....Who will be watching? ...........just a thought.

[thomas7g]

actually havoc, I got a baaaaad feeling about this...

the kind that makes me think we will all be wishing for another Galactica 1980. And we all HATED that!

[Stevew]

I liked G80, with better stories it could of had hope but with what RDM
proposes it will sink at the dock IMHO
S:D

[emerita]

If I want sex...I'll watch a good love story...I watch sci-fi and action adventure for just that.....action-adventure....I want to watch stuff that I can't see by looking in the world around me. I watch them to ESCAPE the world around me.......

[havoc315]

Since when is sci/fi and action mutually exclusive of sex?
Most SciFi includes plenty of sex....
Star Trek has never exactly been prudish. On the adventure side, Indiana Jones has a different love interest in every movie. Back to the SciFi scifi side... plenty of sex and sexual references in Total Recall, Terminator, etc...
Even the family friendly Spiderman action-adventure had a love story as a major plot point, including a very intense kiss under wet t-shirt conditions.

The only scifi that comes to mind, mostly devoid of sex and love stories, would be the original Star Wars trilogy. But even that had a love story subplot of Han and Leia, it had the incestuous kiss!, it had Leia in the skimpy bikini and chains, so while I would rate Star Wars as the most prudish, even it had a few elements. The original BSG had plenty of love story angles, including the Starbuck triangle, Apollo and Serina, Apollo and Sheba. There was no explicit sex, but there was plenty of "love story"... and you just didn't have any explicit sex on network television in the 70's.

[thomas7g]

I always considered it as sort of a StarWars kind of adventure. Scifi swashbukling fun.

btw I refer to the original SW. Not the newer stuff which isn't as good.

[havoc315]

There was a recent episode of Trek:Enterprise where, in a dream sequence, there is some extremely explicit and steamy stuff with T'Pol.
I have heard there was extremely explicit stuff between Spike and Buffy on Buffy The Vampire Slayer.
Total Recall had very explicit scenes between Arnold and Sharon Stone.

Next you will say that none of these went to the level of hard-core pornography... But I'll bet you my entire Christmas bonus that the new BSG also won't equal hard core pornography on-screen.

[havoc315]

The original Star Wars, also made in the 70s, was actually far more prudish than the original BSG. They definitely implied sexual relations between Starbuck and Athena and Cassiopia, Cassiopia was a prostitute, etc....
Star Wars never had a skimpy outfit till Return of the Jedi.

[David Kerin]

With a cast of dysfunctional and sex hungry characters what would Moore's version of Cain be like?

What would be his dysfunction? My guess is he would be an alcoholic. Probably the distress of losing the war would drive him to drink heavily and it would effect his on duty behavior probably leading to some pilots getting killed. There's drama for you!

I'm sadly not joking about this either. In Moore's "reinventing" of the Sci Fi series (not just Galactica, but the whole genre, according to his mission statment) Moore has grabbed every modern day cliche that permeates today's television. I think the only thing we have yet to see so far from him is a character with some sort of substance abuse. Bring in Cain and there you go.

Also, on a side note, claiming to Reinvent the Sci Fi Genre is a rather arrogant statement... If you are going to claim such a thing you better be damn good and really do something different. Unfortunately I have yet to read anything in Moore's plans that are not directly "borrowed" from shows already on the air.

Maybe the only thing "New" is a robot putting it's hands down someone's pants... unless that behind the scenes footage from the Lost In Space Christmas party ever shows up. Get that Robot drinking and he was all hands... err, claws. There are rumors about him and Robby too, but I personally don't believe that.


Back on the Cain thing for a moment, there would have to be a sexual angle. The original did have the relationship with Cassi, but now how would that be handled? You have Baltar who is the sex addict (did you ever think you'd hear that? no wonder he and Lucifer bickered like a married couple), so Cain can't be that. Since Moore's universe seems SO close to our civilization here on Earth maybe he is addicted to internet (or astralnet) pornography.

Just my thoughts.

[emerita]

Thanks Warrior. That is what I was trying to get across......I don't mind a tender love scene....I quite enjoy them, what I find distasteful, is the dragged out 5 minute grunting and sweating scenes.....and I also find what Riker and Troi do in ST is a little different than say Starbuck and Apollo having sex in the "new" Galactica........If that is what is to be, then I shall drag out my copies of Startrek and not watch the "new" Galactica......

[thomas7g]

The new Enterprise throws in gratuitous scenes which I think further reduces the quality of the trek franchise. Go to the subspace forums. Enterprise is problably the least liked version of Trek. Maybe worse than Voyager.

Buffy fights Vampires. Its a different genre. It appeals to young teens who do think alot about sex. Buffy moralitites and writing style would make a very bad Galactica.

Total Recal was a totally different kind of story. And a theatrical movie to boot. Last I heard this revival wasn't meant for the big screen.

And the original Star Wars even today is better than any of its sequels. the only problem is we've all seen it too many times!

[havoc315]

Thomas....
The point is that sex is extremely common in scifi, and I just listed the examples that came off the top of my head.

You can dismiss Enterprise and Buffy if you want, but I'm sure that BSG would be considered a HUGE success if it got the ratings and critical praise of those two shows. They both appeal to far more than teens as you imply. Remember, most tv is targetting to the 18-35 crowd, and both shows do very well with that demographic. Buffy is a darling of the critics, while even Enterprise gets mixed critical review.

Other television sci/fi fantasy with explicit sex? Xena, Farscape, etc, etc etc

[thomas7g]

Yeah... we never said this WAS pornography. We just said it was putting too much LUST into the formula!

I don't mind bringing it up to today's sexual standards, but there is a difference with that and throwing out the quality of the old show and making this seem more suited to Heavy Metal.

[havoc315]

Heavy Metal was cool!
But that's besides the point.

You say there is too much lust in the formula, this might be true, this might be totally false. This comment is basely on vague rumors across the net. Two or three sexual scenes in a 4-hour telemovie might be "too much" or it might not, it depends on how the scenes are presented, the length of the scenes, the explicit nature of the scenes, etc.

I'll be happy to eat crow if BSG does look like a soft-core porn movie with kinky sex overwhelming the rest of the story, I just don't expect it to go that far. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to say so.

[thomas7g]

I actually thought Buffy has had GREAT writing. But what makes Buffy works won't apply necessarily to Galactica. HEll...Firefly (which uses alot of buffy styled writing) is sinking like a rock in an ocean. And I AM a Firefly fan.

What does make Buffy work is not the sex scenes, its the writing. And the sex isn't thrown in there like we are seeing so far in the Moore project. Moore really pushes that.

Enterprise lives off the coattails of its predecessors. Take away the starships and phasers and little boys will stop watching. And Everyone agrees the show is VERY badly written.

[havoc315]

Not everyone agrees that Enterprise is poorly written.... Personally, I think it's better written than Voyager and TNG. I just think the shtick has gotten old, but it's no worse than most episodes of TNG. TOS did not have good writing either, but made up for it in other ways. A couple of the movies have been well written... of the tv shows, my own opinion is that only DS9 was consistently (but not perfectly) well-written.

Now you say that on Buffy, the sex isn't just thrown in but it's part of the story. How can you be so certain this isn't also the case with the RDM BSG?
Of anything, the sexuality between Baltar/6 seems very akin to the relationship between Buffy and Spike.

To say it's just gratuitous sex might end up being true, but it's much to early to draw any such conclusion. Reminds me, talking about Enterprise, about how many fans heard a single rumor about T'Pol wearing a cat-suit and instantly jumped to the conclusion she was only being used as gratuitous eye-candy.

[dah66]

Originally posted by havoc315
There was a recent episode of Trek:Enterprise where, in a dream sequence, there is some extremely explicit and steamy stuff with T'Pol.
I have heard there was extremely explicit stuff between Spike and Buffy on Buffy The Vampire Slayer.
Total Recall had very explicit scenes between Arnold and Sharon Stone.

Next you will say that none of these went to the level of hard-core pornography... But I'll bet you my entire Christmas bonus that the new BSG also won't equal hard core pornography on-screen.

Enterprise is a rating's disaster. There was an article in TV Guide that they are attempting to 'sex it up' to get new viewers. Will this work? I doubt it. The show has no direction and is incredibly boring. Why would I tune in to see these boring people have sex? I won't. Sex seems to be the answer for the creatively bankrupt.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer has dark themes. The scenes between Spike and Buffy were very explicit, but this show is basically horror. Therefore, sex and violence are to be expected. Galactica was essentially a family show, so it's shocking for fans to learn that the Cylons will be having sex with humans.

Total Recall was an R rated action movie with science fiction themes. It doesn't have any bearing on the way sex is portrayed on television. Sex and science fiction are not mutually exclusive. There have been plenty of quality science fiction movies and novels that have sexuality as a central theme. I think the point that most of us are trying to make is that we do not see the need for explicit sexual acts to be shown in the new Galactica. It was a family show that is being updated for modern audiences where family values are being replaced with sex and dysfunction.

We live in a society that is fascinated by all things crass and corrupting. Some of us want to rise above this and have something positive to share with our families. So far, the plot details that have been leaked and confirmed by Mr. Moore seem to conflict with this desire.

Also, I haven't read any posts where people are claiming that the new Galactica will be pornographic. People are implying that the new series seems to have themes that echo a porno parody of Galactica.

Thanks.

Dave

[havoc315]

It just seems to me that people are looking for reasons to bash the new BSG production. I went back and re-read some articles and posts when DeSanto was in charge of the remake, and while now the fans say they want DeSanto back....
When he was actually in charge, fans were bashing him just as strongly.

No matter what is suggested, it looks to me like the fan reaction will be equally vehement. Maybe the reaction to Hatch's ideas would be more warmly received, but nobody else is given half of a chance.

There are lots of rumors about many of RDM's ideas.... and every single rumor, every single idea, is met with a majority of animosity. Even if you believe he will ruin BSG, even if you believe he has the worst ideas of anyone, surely some of his ideas have a chance?

I start to get the feeling that if RDM vowed to do an entirely faithful remake of the original, the fans would still nitpick for any tiny difference with the original and make excuses to complain. Some examples:

The special effects are too good, the campiness of the original was part of the fun!
The actor playing Starbuck, his hair is too dark! Dirk Benedict was blonder! It ruins the chacater!
The muffit doesn't squeek quite the same as the old muffit, how could they do that to our show!
The cylon robots are all the same height! They are supposed to be different heights, showing that they were made in different factories!

Then of course, there would be complaints about the remake simply because people don't faithfully remember the original. (These reflect actual complaints on this board... examples....}
Adama shouldn't have to answer to the civilian government!
They are portraying Adama as a coward for retreating!
What's this sappy love story between Apollo and Serina? I don't tune in to scifi to see love stories!

My point, let's not be so quick to jump on every single rumor as if it means the end of the universe as we know it.

[dah66]

Havoc,

I think your twisting things. There were many fans that were upset with DeSanto's production due to the lack of information and the non-participation of Richard Hatch. However, the reactions to Moore's ideas have been much stronger because he seems to be diverging too far away from the original source material.

I strongly believe that most fans would be satisfied with a quality production that retains some of the original look, feel, and themes. Moore's production does not seem to have this (from what I have read).

It is unrealistic to think that any production of any show will please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

I feel that you are generalizing fandom in an attempt to portray us a group of dissatisfied lunatics. I guess your above this group simply because you like what Ron Moore is saying? There were plenty of fans that were willing to 'wait and see' in regard to Moore's plans. Most of these people have gotten a sneak peek and have turned against him. Why does this upset you so much? It appears that you are going to get what you want -- Galactica is coming back with Ron steering the boat. So why do you care if some of us wish to vent our frustrations? Why does it bother you so much?

I'm not trying to fight, I'm just trying to understand where your coming from. You've won. We've lost. Are you gloating or trying to win us over?

Dave

[Stevew]

Hav
If you don't get by now you never will.
There was no explicit sex in BSG, but there was plenty of "love story" and that is OK as long as it is done with some class. There is no need to have explicit sex in BSG or any sci-fi IMHO.
S

:evil:

[thomas7g]

Originally posted by havoc315
Not everyone agrees that Enterprise is poorly written.... Personally, I think it's better written than Voyager and TNG. I just think the shtick has gotten old, but it's no worse than most episodes of TNG. TOS did not have good writing either, but made up for it in other ways. A couple of the movies have been well written... of the tv shows, my own opinion is that only DS9 was consistently (but not perfectly) well-written.


You seem to be in the minority. Actually just about EVERYONE seems to think Enterprise is a badly written show. I myself when I tune in can easily predict the story and wait bored for the events I foresaw to happen. And most everyone would really disagree with you and say that STNG was much better than Enterprise.

I would also point out that Buffy didn't use the Spike romance thing for titilation. Unlike what we see on Enterprise and apparently the new Moore BG.


Originally posted by havoc315
To say it's just gratuitous sex might end up being true, but it's much to early to draw any such conclusion. Reminds me, talking about Enterprise, about how many fans heard a single rumor about T'Pol wearing a cat-suit and instantly jumped to the conclusion she was only being used as gratuitous eye-candy.


Uhhh... I think you better take a look again. She IS used as gratuitous eye candy! Now that you bring it up, I guess those fears were very justified. (I didn't know fans predicted this :))

Originally posted by havoc315
I start to get the feeling that if RDM vowed to do an entirely faithful remake of the original, the fans would still nitpick for any tiny difference with the original and make excuses to complain.

Actually I do see where the old version needs to be revamped for today's audience. The problem is that we are not talking about modernising. We are talking about taking away the good core parts of the show, such as the buddy-buddy comraderie between Apollo and starbuck. And we are replacing it with a cliche soap opera relationship. And other gratuitous makeovers.

There is a strong opinion about what people like and love about the show. And frankly scifi channel, universal, and Moore is being very callous toward that opinion. And even condescending.


Originally posted by havoc315
The special effects are too good, the campiness of the original was part of the fun!
The actor playing Starbuck, his hair is too dark! Dirk Benedict was blonder! It ruins the chacater!
The muffit doesn't squeek quite the same as the old muffit, how could they do that to our show!
The cylon robots are all the same height! They are supposed to be different heights, showing that they were made in different factories!

uhhhh... that's a pretty weak analogy....you can do better :)

[havoc315]

Originally posted by Stevew
Hav
If you don't get by now you never will.
There was no explicit sex in BSG, but there was plenty of "love story" and that is OK as long as it is done with some class. There is no need to have explicit sex in BSG or any sci-fi IMHO.
S

:evil:

And you're entitled to your opinion, but you are missing the point. The original BSG was 25 years ago, there was NO explicit sex on television. Things have changed, most scifi and fantasy on television now has sex, even explicit sex.

So I guess I must assume that you have similar dislike for *all* current scifi and fantasy.

[thomas7g]

Originally posted by havoc315
And you're entitled to your opinion, but you are missing the point. The original BSG was 25 years ago, there was NO explicit sex on television. Things have changed, most scifi and fantasy on television now has sex, even explicit sex.

So I guess I must assume that you have similar dislike for *all* current scifi and fantasy.

I don't think that really make sense. Just because things have changed doesn't mean every modern show needs explicit sex. I am so glad that Roseanne didn't follow this logic :D

[Stevew]

As I said it is you that has missed the point, be it 25 or 100 years ago. it does not need explicit sex plain and simple. Which part of does not need explicit sex plain and simple that you do not understand.
There was plenty of "love story" and that is OK as long as it is done with some class. There is no need to have explicit sex in BSG or any sci-fi IMHO. I said need and again you asssssummmeee. I have been a sci-fi fan since before you were born I would bet. There is not much I don't like but explicit sex does little if anything for the story that can't be done with class and so far all I have heard about RDM's vision is cheap junk. We are talking about BSG and nothing else. You talk about rabid BSG fans, why are you beating moores drum so hard?
BTW You should see Richards trailer, it woulg give you an idea where a good starting place is and how BSG ought to be done

[havoc315]

Originally posted by thomas7g



You seem to be in the minority. Actually just about EVERYONE seems to think Enterprise is a badly written show. I myself when I tune in can easily predict the story and wait bored for the events I foresaw to happen. And most everyone would really disagree with you and say that STNG was much better than Enterprise.

Go to any Enterprise fan site and the fans will disagree with you. Read the professional critics and you will see pretty similar reviews as TNG. If just about everyone agreed that Enterprise was so bad, then it wouldn't still be on the air. Even UPN cancels shows that fail.


I would also point out that Buffy didn't use the Spike romance thing for titilation. Unlike what we see on Enterprise and apparently the new Moore BG.

How do you know the RDM BSG sex will be for gratuitous titilation?? From the rumors I read, 6's back will turn red, afire, during sex. Sounds scary, but does not sound the least bit titillating.

Purely gratuitous sexuality was 7of9's catsuit and high heels on Voyager. Smart fans are 100% correct to criticize it. At the same time, despite it, 7of9 was still the best character on Voyager, and between the character and the catsuit, she was also the most popular character.



Uhhh... I think you better take a look again. She IS used as gratuitous eye candy! Now that you bring it up, I guess those fears were very justified. (I didn't know fans predicted this :))

Go read some Enterprise fan sites... She has actually become most people's favorite character on the show. I'm sure there are still some people who hate her, as there are with every character, but she has won over most fans.



Actually I do see where the old version needs to be revamped for today's audience. The problem is that we are not talking about modernising. We are talking about taking away the good core parts of the show, such as the buddy-buddy comraderie between Apollo and starbuck. And we are replacing it with a cliche soap opera relationship. And other gratuitous makeovers.

I've heard this repeated again and again, that RDM is "taking away the good core parts." But the evidence doesn't back up this statement. The only solid example that is continuously cited is the change in the Starbuck/Apollo relationship. Every other supposed change is based entirely on speculation. Even Starbuck and Apollo might still have a similar buddy-buddy relationship, it is possible for a man and woman to be friends!

THe other core changes supposedly being made?
That the mythos will be gone?? Pure speculation, not based in any evidence I have seen.
The Adama and Apollo will hate each other? Conflict is not hate. So again, pure unfounded speculation.
Baltar will have sex with a cylon? How do we know Baltar didn't have sex with cylons off-camera in the original.

There is ONE core change, very fundamental change....that fans are glossing over without really discussing.

In the original BSG, 90% of the conflict was external... an outside villain or outside source (usually the cylons or Baltar) who provided a black/white antagonist to the Fleet.

Based on RDM's statements, it is fair to say that he will not use this approach. Antagonists might not be so clearcut, and more of the conflict will be generated internally.

Now that's a pretty fundamental change. He has said he wants to bring a level of sophistication to scifi that is found on the best primetime dramas (I believe he cited West Wing and ER as examples). Well, that type of sophistication is usually based on internal, as opposed to external, conflicts.

This is indeed a very fundamental change. It is far more fundamental than Baltar sleeping with the enemy, or Starbuck getting his gonads cut off.

In my opinion, this approach is more mature television....It turns BSG into something I might want to watch as an adult. Yes, I loved the original BSG, but I was a kid, my tastes have changed. The simple shoot-m-up, good guys and bad guys... my tastes aren't quite the same anymore.

If there is an RDM change to be addressed, that's the truly fundamental change.

[havoc315]

Originally posted by Stevew
As I said it is you that has missed the point, be it 25 or 100 years ago. it does not need explicit sex plain and simple. Which part of does not need explicit sex plain and simple that you do not understand.
There was plenty of "love story" and that is OK as long as it is done with some class. There is no need to have explicit sex in BSG or any sci-fi IMHO. I said need and again you asssssummmeee. I have been a sci-fi fan since before you were born I would bet. There is not much I don't like but explicit sex does little if anything for the story that can't be done with class and so far all I have heard about RDM's vision is cheap junk. We are talking about BSG and nothing else. You talk about rabid BSG fans, why are you beating moores drum so hard?
BTW You should see Richards trailer, it woulg give you an idea where a good starting place is and how BSG ought to be done

Actually, I haven't beat RDM's drum at all, I've just pointed out how silly much of the criticism is. I also have not criticized Richard's trailer, but as I have said elsewhere... Even if Richard's trailer is the finest 4 minutes ever put on film, it does not mean no other project can succeed.

Now you said it does not need explicit sex. Well, if we are going to talk about need, then you're right. It also doesn't need a male Starbuck, or any Starbuck for that matter. It doesn't need Apollo, or Adama or Baltar. It doesn't need cylons. It doesn't need colonies. It doesn't need action. It doesn't need humor. It doesn't need anything.

Might sex be one of the many vehicle to tell the story? Yes, it might. And in most current scifi and fantasy, it's often used exactly for that purpose.

[havoc315]

Originally posted by thomas7g


I don't think that really make sense. Just because things have changed doesn't mean every modern show needs explicit sex. I am so glad that Roseanne didn't follow this logic :D

Yikes, that would be scary.

I did not say every modern show needs explicit sex. No show needs any one thing. But to those who say there simply should not be any explicit sex in scifi/fantasy.... have those people seen any scifi/fantasy lately??
Explicit sex is extremely common in modern scifi/fantasy.... so I don't understand the attitude of "oh gosh! I can't believe it! Sex! Oh my goodness, oh my goodness! How dare they show that on television! Scifi shouldn't have sex!"

It's like saying a sitcom shouldn't make jokes with sexual innuendo. No sitcom *needs* to use sexual innuendo for humor, 30 years ago they didn't... but we can't ignore the fact that most current sitcoms do just that.

If I were to do a remake of "I Dream of Jeanie".. and I included sexual innuendo between Jeanie and the Major, would people get all upset?

[Stevew]

You are truly a spinmeister. I never said you criticized Richard's trailer, I said you should see it.

"Well, if we are going to talk about need, then you're right. It also doesn't need a male Starbuck, or any Starbuck for that matter. It doesn't need Apollo, or Adama or Baltar. It doesn't need cylons. It doesn't need colonies. It doesn't need action. It doesn't need humor. It doesn't need anything."

The above has nothing to do with the topic, we were talking about explicit sex.
Why has Stargate done so well for the last 5-6 years with out it?
A story can be told without explicit sex, it is used to cover up bad writting, at least in sci-fi.
Kindly do not put words in my mouth

[vmnjn]

I agree with some of your points, havoc.

I also agree that some shows cannot be used to compare with BG:Redo. Different audiences, or different genres, or even different mediums. Yet there is a "cable" scifi show that can be used for concerned comparisons to BG:Redo.

Lexx

Would you like to see BG redone into a colonial/cylon version of Lexx?

Who here watched Lexx when scifi had it noticeably scheduled?

Do you feel the "level" of intimacy portrayed in Lexx would be appropiate for a BG product?

Since the Scifi Channel used this "level" of skin and quasi-soft porn for Lexx. What would keep them from approving the same "level" or a little more for BG:Redo?

The major source of contention here is the "level" of intimacy being used in BG:Redo. If the "level" of intimacy matches or exceeds that shown in Lexx, will you still watch the finished product or purchase its merchandise?

It appears that most posting fans are aiming for, overall, is a "family" scifi show. Something they would want their kids to watch with them. I would not let my child watch Lexx with or without me. I would not let my child watch NYPD Blue with or without me. I would not let my child watch Total Recall without me. Finally I would hope my child has better taste than to watch Buffy, because he would have to watch it without me. Fortunately I am still bigger than my son, and I know where the remotes are hidden.

[havoc315]

Originally posted by Stevew
You are truly a spinmeister. I never said you criticized Richard's trailer, I said you should see it.

"Well, if we are going to talk about need, then you're right. It also doesn't need a male Starbuck, or any Starbuck for that matter. It doesn't need Apollo, or Adama or Baltar. It doesn't need cylons. It doesn't need colonies. It doesn't need action. It doesn't need humor. It doesn't need anything."

The above has nothing to do with the topic, we were talking about explicit sex.
Why has Stargate done so well for the last 5-6 years with out it?
A story can be told without explicit sex, it is used to cover up bad writting, at least in sci-fi.
Kindly do not put words in my mouth

I didn't put any words in your mouth, I just demonstrated the flaw in your logic. The argument that something isn't needed, and therefore should not be included, is entirely illogical. Tell me, if you won the lottery, would you turn down the money because it was unneeded?

Now, on to your example about Stargate... I can't really say much about it, because I have only seen a handful of episodes. I know it's had limited success... enough success to stick around, not enough success to find one home.

Most modern scifi/fantasy has explicit sex. Maybe Stargate doesn't have it, I haven't seen every episode of Stargate so I don't know. But still, so what? Stargate also doesn't have vipers. Does that prove you don't need vipers, and that Battlestar Galactica shouldn't have vipers either?

[havoc315]

And I agree with some of your points....

I'll answer your questions. Fair is fair.



Lexx

Would you like to see BG redone into a colonial/cylon version of Lexx?

I never saw Lexx, only the commercials. But from what I did see, I would have to say probably not. But there is no indication this is happening, RDM has never done a Lexx-like project in his life.

Who here watched Lexx when scifi had it noticeably scheduled?

Never saw it.

Do you feel the "level" of intimacy portrayed in Lexx would be appropiate for a BG product?

Never saw it, so don't know for sure. I would say probably not.

Since the Scifi Channel used this "level" of skin and quasi-soft porn for Lexx. What would keep them from approving the same "level" or a little more for BG:Redo?

Pretty weak point. Yes, they might be willing to approve it, does that mean it's going to happen? Of course not.

The major source of contention here is the "level" of intimacy being used in BG:Redo. If the "level" of intimacy matches or exceeds that shown in Lexx, will you still watch the finished product or purchase its merchandise?

I haven't read the script, and I certainly haven't seen the finished product....... but if it did hit the level you're suggesting, then I probably wouldn't care for it. I haven't seen any indication it will happen though. All we have heard are flying rumors that BSG has 2 or 3 sec scenes. Nothing about the length of the scenes, very little about the context of the scenes. The little bit we have heard, it doesn't even sound like the scenes are the least bit titillating. (A cylon's back turning red during intercourse does not sound very erotic to me).

[thomas7g]

Havoc, you keep telling me to go to any Enterprise forum to find people who don't like Enterprise?!? lol

I think that's like going to a trek convention and try to find someone who thinks trek sucks. :D

uh... and regarding Jeannie... if this was as bad as the reports I'm hearing...than most affirmably yes!

[havoc315]

Thomas, I was hoping you would say that....
Hmmm.. the majority of fans on an Enterprise forum like Enterprise, what a shock.
About as shocking that the fans on a BSG forum like the original BSG without revision!

[thomas7g]

As to the reason why everyone keeps bringing up the starbuck-apollo relationship is because more than anything else, that was the HEART of the old series.

And yes making starbuck a female DOES change things. Especially if as stated they are to become romantically intwined.

[havoc315]

According to the most recent interview.... Apollo and Starbuck are still best friends, their relationship is still basically the same. According to RDM, they do not become romantically entwined in his script (but he does state they could possibly in the distant future).

So if the Starbuck/Apollo relationship was really the HEART of the old series, then rejoice.. It is still there. Only with a change in gender. Starbuck is still the rogue, still the best friend, etc, etc... just a bit prettier :)

[thomas7g]

actually I think you do us a disservice. I personally am not opposed to revision.

I do care that the value of the remake is suffering from what appears in every report sofar. I have yet to hear of a good reason for the sex change.

And as for the Enterprise think. Please come to http://www.subspacebbs.com/ which is a trek based forum to discuss the value of Enterprise. :D

[Stevew]

Hav
That dog will not hunt and you still keep spinning. The subject is explicit sex not vipers etc and the fact I think it is unnecessary has nothing to do with logic. You seem to be going away from the core issue explicit sex and nobody will ever convience me that it is a requirement for a successful sci-fi show. Again I say if RDM makes it as is from what we have heard then call it something else. I thought "Starball-less" was perfect.
Stargate has had a 6year run, that is success and I think it is the best sci-fi on the air right now

[thomas7g]

agreed. And Carter don't go jogging around the base in her sportsbra ;)

[havoc315]

Ahh... So Thomas, you're not against a remake, you just think it's being handled poorly? I forget if you're one of the people who would have preferred the DeSanto version?

Tell me if this article reflects your opinion about how RDM and SciFi are messing up BSG:
I have read a few articles from Ronald Moore and have heard little bits of heresay from various parties. However, the pipeline for breaking news seems to have been turned off for the time being. It seems to me that if we are not hearing anything, then either there is nothing to report -- or they don't want us to know what's going on. After such a strong negative response from the fans concerning the direction the studios originally wanted to take Battlestar Galactica in, I would have to think that they must have realized that if they were going to follow their own agenda, they better do it in secret. Nobody wants to be second guessed -- and I'm sure that they think that they know better than the fans what direction the show should go in.

They talk about honoring the original show, but everything I hear tells me that they have no real intention of following through on that promise other than in a token way, which is how the studios always try to appease the fans . . . Who knows maybe they will come up with a great show and blow everybody away with their creative vision for Battlestar Galactica, maybe they won't. No matter what happens, I personally would like to see Battlestar succeed because it's a great epic story with a lot of heart -- and it deserves a real chance to fly. My fear is, if Battlestar Galactica doesn't succeed, they will blame Battlestar itself and not the creative vision behind it. The studios will just say that if Ronald Moore can't make Battlestar Galactica successful, then nobody can.

I still believe that the studios don't understand what is special about Battlestar, nor do they understand the vast and wide ranging fanbase that supports it. . . . But the fact that nobody really believes in the show, except . . . tells me that what the studios really want is a new show. It might have the Battlestar Galactica name (which they can use for relaunching it), but essentially they're hoping Ronald Moore will come up with an exciting new concept which while borrowing from Battlestar Galactica will, in reality, be a completely different animal. If one doesn't understand what is special about a show or what made it successful in the first place, then how can one ever build upon it?

The fact is: The studios don't perceive Battlestar Galactica as having been successful. Period. So they believe they have to change it drastically to have any chance of succeeding. They also seem more concerned with building a new audience than pleasing the existing fanbase. What I don't understand is, isn't the existing fanbase (which spans generations) the one that is going to make a classic like Battlestar successful. Aren't they the ones that have always made any sci-fi show successful. Why would anyone risk losing the majority of your fans just to gain a few new converts? Again it seems that they still don't understand that the core audience for a classic like Battlestar is the one that already exists, and that they're the group they have to please if they have any hope of buying enough time to bond the audience to their new characters and storylines.

[thomas7g]

And considering how well that show is doing, I think that should show how there is little the need for gratuitous sex and relationships like that.

[vmnjn]

That is the point of difference in our views.

I see no reason why Scifi would not approve a similar "level" of intimacy for BG:Redo. They have done it before so what would keep them from doing it again?

I saw some of the Lexx episodes, however I could never manage to watch even one entire episode. The use of so much erotica in the episodes was just disgusting. Scifi ran Lexx for several seasons if I remember correctly. While what has been inferred from script leaks and rumors may be wrong. We have evidence to show that Scifi has allowed at least one "erotic" series in the past.

As another comparison, even Farscape might have to much "intimacy" for a BG:Redo product.

The affair between the blue girl and her boyfriend's son. The offer by a "manly" looking alien to be the "mate" of that same boyfriend. Even the pheremonal domination exhibited by the latest Peacekeeper nemesis may be to racey for what existing fans want.

This is my concern regarding BG:Redo. From what I am reading this is also the concern for many fans.

[havoc315]

Originally posted by Stevew
Hav
That dog will not hunt and you still keep spinning. The subject is explicit sex not vipers etc and the fact I think it is unnecessary has nothing to do with logic. You seem to be going away from the core issue explicit sex and nobody will ever convience me that it is a requirement for a successful sci-fi show.

You're not listening. Explicit sex is NOT a requirement for a successful sci fi show. Nobody ever said it was a requirement! You're arguing with nobody but yourself.
Nobody has tried to convince you that it is a requirement!

But so what???????? Who cares if its a requirement or not??? You're the only person concerned with whether explicit sex is required.

The issue is not whether explicit sex is required.
The issue is whether a tv show can possibly be any good if it has explicit sex. Are you saying its impossible for a show to be any good if it has any explicit sex in it?

[havoc315]

.

I see no reason why Scifi would not approve a similar "level" of intimacy for BG:Redo. They have done it before so what would keep them from doing it again?

And SciFi has also aired the show about contacting the dead with John Edwards (or whatever his name is). What would keep them from combining his show with BSG?


As another comparison, even Farscape might have to much "intimacy" for a BG:Redo product.

The affair between the blue girl and her boyfriend's son. The offer by a "manly" looking alien to be the "mate" of that same boyfriend. Even the pheremonal domination exhibited by the latest Peacekeeper nemesis may be to racey for what existing fans want.

This is my concern regarding BG:Redo. From what I am reading this is also the concern for many fans.

Farscape was widely praised by critics and scifi fans.

[Stevew]

I am listening, it is you who are spining and trying to distort what I say, but then that is what attornys do. I was and have been quite clear, if you choose not to understand, that is your choice and will not change what I have said. I wonder who you really are, hmmm

[havoc315]

Originally posted by Stevew
I am listening, it is you who are spining and trying to distort what I say, but then that is what attornys do. I was and have been quite clear, if you choose not to understand, that is your choice and will not change what I have said. I wonder who you really are, hmmm

lol, really resorting to that? insults and insinuations? surely you can do better.

[thomas7g]

actually, I know little of Tom DeSanto and his plan. So I can't judge his work.

But from what you posted I think there are some right things and some wrong. We are getting strong almost blinding signals that tell us that what is comming will be dissapointing to say the least, repulsive if it is as bad as the rumors.

I agree that Farscape was a good show. Still its a totallly different product. It has a leather S&M subtheme to it which really would look baaaad on Galactica.

[thomas7g]

actually havoc... you do sound like a Moore employee...not that I'm calling you one... but you do seem to follow that line. :)

[havoc315]

Originally posted by thomas7g
actually, I know little of Tom DeSanto and his plan. So I can't judge his work.

But from what you posted I think there are some right things and some wrong. We are getting strong almost blinding signals that tell us that what is comming will be dissapointing to say the least, repulsive if it is as bad as the rumors.


You avoided the trap.... applause to you. Now I need to extend some apologies.... I made some changes to the article I posted. It was actually an article written about Singer/DeSanto... I just changed the name to RDM for demonstration purposes.... To prove how quick the fans are to badmouth every project.

And the author of that article? None other than BSG's supposed biggest fan, Richard Hatch.

Sounds like Richard Hatch was saying the exact same things about the Singer/DeSanto BSG that fans here now say about the RDM project.

[Stevew]

insults and insinuations? I think not, just telling it the way I see it, I do have that right do I not.
BTW what kind of an attorney are you in case I might need one? You are very good

[havoc315]

I'm a litigator specializing in fraud.

[default]

Litigator? Fancy word for Lawyer where I come from.

No offense dude, bur lawyers are exactly what is wrong with North American/Western society. See McDonald's coffee lawsuit if you need further proof.

You can argue in circles for hours on end, but you will never convince anyone on these boards that the replacement of family values (with some tomcat shenangigans by Starbuck) with out and out sexual situations (and a complete loss of family values) will make a good show.

Now to the heart of your arguement. Can a show with sexual intensity or situations be any good? I don't see why not, there are those that claim "Sex In The City" is good (I have never watched despite a buddy of mine being on it).

Now can Battlestar Galactica be any good with jacked up secual themes? No. Why? Because that is not Battlestar Galactica. Battlestar Galactica was about family and community, not about who's doing whom.

Oh and as for the cut and paste Desanto/Moorse article... cute Matlock... real cute.

[Stevew]

Funny Darrell but the article seemed to be quite different than what the fans are saying about what has been posted reguarding RDM's version or did I miss something.
S:D

[Artemis]

Originally posted by AslanC

You can argue in circles for hours on end, but you will never convince anyone on these boards that the replacement of family values (with some tomcat shenangigans by Starbuck) with out and out sexual situations (and a complete loss of family values) will make a good show.

I'm sorry for butting in here but family values? You may not have seen it but they didn't hide the fact that Starbuck was known for screwing every female around. And they did show him dating 2 at once and lying to both about it. And how long did it take for him to get Cassiopeia in the launch tube, much of which was cut for American TV screens.

[havoc315]

Originally posted by AslanC
Litigator? Fancy word for Lawyer where I come from.

No offense dude, bur lawyers are exactly what is wrong with North American/Western society. See McDonald's coffee lawsuit if you need further proof.

A litigator is one type of lawyer..... A lawyer who actually handles court functions as opposed to someone who write contracts, or wills, etc

As to it being what's wrong with American/Western society... you're jumping on a bandwagon without the facts. First off, the McDonald's coffee lawsuit is needle in haystack type of stuff, its one lawsuit out of hundreds of thousands. Second, it would only be an indictment of personal injury lawyers (I am not a personal injury lawyer), it would not be an indictment of all lawyers. Thirdly, and lastly, I doubt you know the full facts of the McDonald's lawsuit, except what has been spread among modern folklore. Even with a full knowledge of the facts, I still would have found for the defendants... but it's not nearly as egregious once you know all the facts.


You can argue in circles for hours on end, but you will never convince anyone on these boards that the replacement of family values (with some tomcat shenangigans by Starbuck) with out and out sexual situations (and a complete loss of family values) will make a good show.[quote]

I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything, just trying to get people to stop making stuff up about the new RDM show. Replacement of family values? Huh? Did RDM say he wouldn't have family values in his show? According to his most recent post, a strong father-son bond will be inherent in the relationship between Adama and Apollo.

You are taking one rumor... that there will be a couple of sexual scenes, and from that you are leaping to the conclusion that the show won't feature any family values!

You got me talking about being a lawyer...... Well, then to use a legal analogy... Imagine a criminal trial... The only evidence is that the defendant was somewhere in the city at the time of the murder. Would that be enough to convict him of murder?

[quote]Oh and as for the cut and paste Desanto/Moorse article... cute Matlock... real cute.

Why thank you, it served its purpose.

[default]

I've said my piece. I view lawyers as one step lower than criminals.

So I bow out of what is no doubt about to spiral down into semantics and double talk.

To those who wish to keep this arguement going, best of luck.

Havoc315 (nice original nick there by theway, at least 314 other people thought of it before you) I wish you all the best in this one, but frankly it seems you just want to stir shit up and cause argeument. I won't accuse you of working for anyone, since that would be silly given the complete lack of facts. But I will simply ask that you ignore me the way I am about to ignore you.

Pax eternia

[havoc315]

Originally posted by AslanC
I've said my piece. I view lawyers as one step lower than criminals.

So I bow out of what is no doubt about to spiral down into semantics and double talk.

To those who wish to keep this arguement going, best of luck.

Havoc315 (nice original nick there by theway, at least 314 other people thought of it before you) I wish you all the best in this one, but frankly it seems you just want to stir shit up and cause argeument. I won't accuse you of working for anyone, since that would be silly given the complete lack of facts. But I will simply ask that you ignore me the way I am about to ignore you.

Pax eternia

I'd be happy to ignore you, believe me...... But to resort to insulting my profession and my screenname? If you can't handle a discussion like a mature adult...... yes, then I will most certainly ignore you.

[Artemis]

As you know I have been around here for a while so I am not a Moore spy. I have seen Richard's trailer and loved it, and have all his books personally signed. I would love to see him do this project and think that DeSanto could also do an awesome job although I do remember a lot of complaining about DeSanto leaving Apollo out of the story. Is Moore going to do a good job? I don't know I haven't seen it yet, I know I liked his work on DS9.

As for Starbuck's sex change, I kind of like the idea. You see, I don't have any external genitalia that feels threatened and if he is going to put a strong female character in the story then I am all for it. Yes, Sheba was a strong female character but she didn't show up till halfway through the series and Athena was too much a token female, like Uhura, and Cassiopeia was too girly. I like having characters I can relate to in stories and a female who is Apollo's (my favorite character) best friend is someone I, as a female, can relate to.

As for explicit sex scenes, they don't bother me. I'm an adult and if they are integral to the story then fine, if they are just gratuitous than I would rather they spend the time on good writing but if it helps the ratings then it helps get the show picked up as a series and then they can concentrate on good writing and save the sex for sweeps week.

My two cubits,
:colwar:

[havoc315]

Nice post Artemis, I couldn't have said it any better myself... and it's not for lack of trying :)

[thomas7g]

it was a lack of a convincing arguement ;)

[Artemis]

It wasn't an argument it was an opinion. Arguments have premises which followed by support lead to a logical conclusion. ;)

[dah66]

OK. We know that Baltar has sexual relations with a female Cylon and her spine glows red during the act.

Why would the spine glow red? Because she's hot? That doesn't make sense. Why would straddling Baltar generate that much heat? Friction? If the Cylon skeleton is composed of titanium, then this friction would be generating temperatures close to 1620°F. (880°C.). Wow. I guess she is hot.

So the science will be accurate in terms of no sound in space but it seems that metallurgy is another story.

Havoc -- I'm sure you will have a rebuttal for this. Maybe you can bring in a expert witness to explain this to me. If so, thanks in advance.

Dave

[Stevew]

I know Darrell I was trying to understand what his point was, it is kinda confusing :D

[emerita]

Wow, go away for a few hours and look what happens. I agree with Warrior...this is a strange turn of thoughts and kind of humorus. All this thread shows is that we all are passionate in our beliefs.....But we shouldn't turn to demeaning and name calling....that sounds to much like the Sci-fi board.*shudder*
You are right Steve...It got very confusing (and very long winded) back there. I respect everyone's point of view and I would hate for this to turn into a free for all. Looks like it has gotten under control though, so I'll sit down and shut up now.

[thomas7g]

Originally posted by AslanC
I've said my piece. I view lawyers as one step lower than criminals.

So I bow out of what is no doubt about to spiral down into semantics and double talk.

To those who wish to keep this arguement going, best of luck.

Havoc315 (nice original nick there by theway, at least 314 other people thought of it before you) I wish you all the best in this one, but frankly it seems you just want to stir shit up and cause argeument. I won't accuse you of working for anyone, since that would be silly given the complete lack of facts. But I will simply ask that you ignore me the way I am about to ignore you.

Pax eternia

Uhhh.... this wasn't good..... I take it its over. :/:

lets not demean each others names and professions here.... :(

[default]

I apologize for losing my temper. And I apologize for what I said.

It was immature of me and beneath me to do so.

It won't happen again.

[thomas7g]

Originally posted by havoc315
You avoided the trap.... applause to you. Now I need to extend some apologies.... I made some changes to the article I posted. It was actually an article written about Singer/DeSanto... I just changed the name to RDM for demonstration purposes.... To prove how quick the fans are to badmouth every project.

And the author of that article? None other than BSG's supposed biggest fan, Richard Hatch.

Sounds like Richard Hatch was saying the exact same things about the Singer/DeSanto BSG that fans here now say about the RDM project.

WHAT THE HELL??? I was engaging in an honest debate and you are trying to TRAP ME?!?!?

I don't need no mind games okay. This ain't no court. keep the tricks to yourself. And please take a break from this. :/:

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by dah66
OK. We know that Baltar has sexual relations with a female Cylon and her spine glows red during the act.

Why would the spine glow red? Because she's hot? That doesn't make sense. Why would straddling Baltar generate that much heat? Friction? If the Cylon skeleton is composed of titanium, then this friction would be generating temperatures close to 1620°F. (880°C.). Wow. I guess she is hot.
Hmmm... Baltar has a Cylon silica chip implanted by Number Six into his head. It's mentioned specifically within the script in Act Three on the second night. We don't see the implantation, but Number Six tells Baltar specifically that she's done it -- and what the Cylon chip does (ie. transfers images into his conscious mind).

The question is: Which head? :cylon: :eek:

Michael
:colwar:

[dah66]

Michael - I'm not sure I won't to know which head. I embarrass quite easily.

:)

[michaelfaries]

Actually, it's in his brain, not the, um... launch tube.

Michael
:colwar:

[dah66]

LOL. What a relief.

[AlternityOrange]

I personally can't wait for the Number Six action figure with a back that lights up whenever it straddles the Baltar figure (not included)

[jewels]

Originally posted by dah66


....Galactica was essentially a family show, so it's shocking for fans to learn that the Cylons will be having sex with humans....

...I think the point that most of us are trying to make is that we do not see the need for explicit sexual acts to be shown in the new Galactica. It was a family show that is being updated for modern audiences where family values are being replaced with sex and dysfunction.

We live in a society that is fascinated by all things crass and corrupting. Some of us want to rise above this and have something positive to share with our families. So far, the plot details that have been leaked and confirmed by Mr. Moore seem to conflict with this desire.


I am just catching up on this thread but I wanted to echo what Dave said earlier: Some of us do want to rise above the crassness and corruption so prevelent in TV these days and have something positive to share with our families, and I would add:
Something to ignite our children's fascination with what science might become in their generation.

Jewels

[thomas7g]

amen jewels :)

[jewels]

:)

[michaelfaries]

Originally posted by AlternityOrange
I personally can't wait for the Number Six action figure with a back that lights up whenever it straddles the Baltar figure (not included)
LOL!!!! You have made my day, AlternityOrange. Truly.

Thank you,
Michael
:colwar:

[thomas7g]

"Oooohhhh hooonnnnneyyy.... my baack is glooowwwing...."

"Then take a cold shoooooweeeeerrrr....."

Oh wait...she would rust... ;)

[Flamingo Girl]

You know, I was just looking at my Starbuck action figure, and while it doesn't have boobs, it also doesn't have..........hmmmmmmm......

[oldwardaggit]

It always starts out with AHHHH I'm hot, my back is glowing and then when you get married, it's GET OFF MY BACK. LOL

OWD

[vmnjn]

Sick babies are nature's alarm clock. Only they are not programmable.

Another action figure made by underpaid, crippled by their own machinery, chinese for an ever hungry quantity over quality american economy.

Ranting aside... The spine may light up, but does it have a vibration setting? Instead of "you will be assimilated," when you squeeze her does she say "prepare for implantation?"

[AlternityOrange]

Ranting aside... The spine may light up, but does it have a vibration setting? Instead of "you will be assimilated," when you squeeze her does she say "prepare for implantation?"

Hmmm, I don't think it speaks. But if you push it's head down she hikes up her skirt. :D

[emerita]

:laugh: :laugh:...you guys crack me up....... :thumbsup:

[vmnjn]

We can't have this thread near the bottom!

Sorry, I really like its title...

Ahh, nothing like the classics. Another "Flesh" Gordon rerun anyone?

[AlternityOrange]

Flesh Gordon!! I haven't seen that in more than a decade. The really sad part is it was closer to its source material than the new Galactica will be.

Anyone else have any action figure ideas?

[Flamingo Girl]

Yeah, but none that can be sold in WalMart.