Balance to the Force

[julix]

Ok,
Let's talk about this............Anakin was supposed to be the chosen one and bring balance to the force right? Well, what if his destiny was always to join the Sith in order to ultimately destroy it. Is one's life predestined? Or had Anakin choose to not kill Tyranis in Vengence could he had gone on to defeat the Sith as a Jedi????

What do you all think?

[shugotenshi]

“The prophecy...misread it could have been....” is what yoda said in episode three referring to anakin.

We know that the dark side of the force clouds everything and makes the future hard to see.

Is one's life predestined? I don't know...

[julix]

“The prophecy...misread it could have been....” is what yoda said in episode three referring to anakin.

We know that the dark side of the force clouds everything and makes the future hard to see.

Is one's life predestined? I don't know...


I remember Yoda saying that............not sure, except I think he was just questioning it............

[Darrell Lawrence]

I think by balance, it means someone who could handle both sides of it, aka balancing the power of it.

Anakin was able to be pure as a youngster, then went dark, then back again.

The only one able to ever do it, hence he balanced things out.

[Darrell Lawrence]

In addition to that, it is he who was responsible for the fall of the Jedi. Then years later, when he came back to the Light side of the Force, he caused the fall of the Sith.

So again he balanced things out.

[gmd3d]

perhap Luke and Leia are the balance.. the warrior and diplomat?? both strong in the force but in differant areas ..
it weak I know but a possibilty .. perhap No??!

[julix]

I think by balance, it means someone who could handle both sides of it, aka balancing the power of it.

Anakin was able to be pure as a youngster, then went dark, then back again.

The only one able to ever do it, hence he balanced things out.
Good points Warrior..........with both posts.

[julix]

perhap Luke and Leia are the balance.. the warrior and diplomat?? both strong in the force but in differant areas ..
it weak I know but a possibilty .. perhap No??!



I do believe the children are a key piece in this whole equation yes.........and yes they had different strenghts.

[kingfish]

Luke unlike Anakin could handle the dark side as well as the light. When Luke sees he is headed for the path his father chose he throws the lightsaber away. Palpy who is the biggest manipulator alive planned on Luke taking Vader's place at his side, ie Vader's death.

[julix]

Luke unlike Anakin could handle the dark side as well as the light. When Luke sees he is headed for the path his father chose he throws the lightsaber away. Palpy who is the biggest manipulator alive planned on Luke taking Vader's place at his side, ie Vader's death.

Hi paul(how are you?)


Yes I agree with that. But see Luke didn't have the vunerability that Anakin did. Although luke didn't have his parents he grew up in a stable home with Owen and Beru(he was so much bigger than that life-he was restless)but it was a stable life. Anakin had lost his mother the only one he had to rely on........this made him very vunerable. It was the fear of losing that opened him up to the dark side...............What I was asking was do you think Anakin had to fall to the dark side to ultimately defeat it? Was it all predestined?

[kingfish]

I have good days and very bad ones. Some of the meds I am on make me sick to my stomach. I guess it learning to live with the illness I have. :sad:

[julix]

I have good days and very bad ones. Some of the meds I am on make me sick to my stomach. I guess it learning to live with the illness I have. :sad:


(((((((((((((((((paul)))))))))))))))))))
We are here for you!

[Fragmentary]

If the final stage of conflict between the Jedi and the Sith is balance, then where does that leave things at the end of Return of the Jedi. It appears that the Sith has been utterly defeated, and of course Luke stands tall for the Jedi, but where is the balance? Shouldn't there still be the Darkside? Is it Leia?

[Darrell Lawrence]

It's Jar Jar.

[shugotenshi]

It's Jar Jar.

I second that.

[shugotenshi]

Shouldn't there still be the Darkside? Is it Leia?


Nope... http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/leiaorganasolo/index.html

[julix]

What happens after episode 6 is written in books......sanctioned by Lucas. No, Leia isn't the dark side but yes there is always the stuggle against evil.

[julix]

I also ponder that when they are refering to the force being out of balance..............do they mean that the jedi lost their way? In other words there is talk that the jedi had grown arrogant and the judement was clouded. The book really goes into great deal that when Anakin is asked to spy on Palpy this is very questionable step. In fact, in the book Obi Wan as much as says Anakin has a right to not trust any Jedi anymore.............I will look up the exact lines from the book and post it............it blew me away........The book is the bomb!!! It is so good.

[gmd3d]

julix
Yes I agree with that. But see Luke didn't have the vunerability that Anakin did. Although luke didn't have his parents he grew up in a stable home with Owen and Beru(he was so much bigger than that life-he was restless)but it was a stable life. Anakin had lost his mother the only one he had to rely on........this made him very vunerable. It was the fear of losing that opened him up to the dark side...............What I was asking was do you think Anakin had to fall to the dark side to ultimately defeat it? Was it all predestined?

good point julix I would go with that thinking

[julix]

julix


good point julix I would go with that thinking

Thanks Taranis :)

[TopGun]

I agree that there must always be an evil for good to survive

[gpdesigner]

I also ponder that when they are refering to the force being out of balance..............do they mean that the jedi lost their way? In other words there is talk that the jedi had grown arrogant and the judement was clouded.

This is a good point julix, I do remember that being said in eps 3. And as well all now arrogance is one of the traits which lead to the dark side.
But also I remember hearing that there are and will always be "Siths" and maybe it was a "Sith Lord " that took the Force out of Balance.
If I am not stretching it to much follow me on this . . .

A Sith Lord is one who has superior power from the dark side of the force, maybe not able to have total power "Over the dark side" but one who is extremely strong with it, more so than lets say the Jedi. As I understand, there are no supreme Jedi's no one that is the emperor of the Force, no one who can control it fully.
maybe bringing balance to the force meant, the removal of the Sith Lord and nothing more.

A prditurmined destiny is, if the profacy was correct and in fact, it was Anakin would brought balance back to the Force . . . it took almost 20 years and a lot of deaths, but he did do it
3d

[Darrell Lawrence]

..but he failed- Jar Jar still exists ;)

[Darrell Lawrence]

...hmm Just had a thought...

Anyone else notice there was NO reaction from Leia in regards to finding out Vader was HER father as well?

[TopGun]

Yeah, I believe you're right

[gpdesigner]

Woooooooooo hold up! . . . wait . . . . I can't listen to this . .
*puts fingers in ears*
This is madness, not the princess :wtf:
3d

[julix]

...hmm Just had a thought...

Anyone else notice there was NO reaction from Leia in regards to finding out Vader was HER father as well?



There was reaction......she looked disturbed and a bit of shock and then said "I know...somehow I have always known" Force perception.........

[julix]

Woooooooooo hold up! . . . wait . . . . I can't listen to this . .
*puts fingers in ears*
This is madness, not the princess :wtf:
3d


no indeed............

[Darrell Lawrence]

There was reaction......she looked disturbed and a bit of shock and then said "I know...somehow I have always known" Force perception.........

Nope. That was her reaction to Luke telling her they were brother/sister, not that Vader was their father.

In fact, Luke only said Vader was his father, then LATER said they were brother/sister (in the same conversation).

There was no Leia reaction to putting two and two together and realizing Vader was also her father ;)

[julix]

But Warrior..............
Remember the conversation..................It was
"The force runs strong in my family, My father has it, I have it, and my sister has it"



So yes he is saying he is her brother AND Vader is her father...........

[Darrell Lawrence]

But HER reaction was still to him being her brother, not Vader being her father.

[julix]

But HER reaction was still to him being her brother, not Vader being her father.
I must disagree...........it was the realization who her true family was/is :salute:

[Darrell Lawrence]

No. It wasn't.

She went into concern mode for her brother, starting the Obi-Wan enhanced "Run Luke, Run!" spiel ;)

[gpdesigner]

Actually after just seeing the scene . . . . . . :D
After he tells her " he's my father!" she looks at him as if she just smelled something bad and say's "your Father" so there was a reaction, but not a huge one.
3d

[Darrell Lawrence]

Right.

She says YOUR father.

Not OMG! He's my father too then! :eek:

:P:

[julix]

Right.

She says YOUR father.

Not OMG! He's my father too then! :eek:

:P:


But again...........Luke says Vader is my father and she tells him to run away.......and then they talk about power, she tells him he has a power she doesn't understand and could never have............then Luke goes into "there is more it won't be easy for you.................."speech I had posted earlier......sorry warrior..........can't agree there............ :) but I lind of see what you are saying..........

[kingfish]

I was more concernred when Leia stated she always knew that they were brother and sister. Remember the passionate kiss she gives Luke in Empire to make Han jealous.

[shugotenshi]

I was more concernred when Leia stated she always knew that they were brother and sister. Remember the passionate kiss she gives Luke in Empire to make Han jealous.

:LOL: That would've been great, especially if they had did a flashback as she was remembering it.

[TopGun]

Well, she just did it to make Han Jealous. Not a worthy reason, granted

[julix]

I just try not to think of that part..................

[harryfielder]

Just got this in the post and only 28 years late. Must be the pony express swimming across the pond... :thumbsup:

Aitch,

Click here: American Chronicle: Star Wars: Harry Fielder: Death Star Trooper (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=1228)

[julix]

Aitch,


That is soooo cool!!!!!! Thanks for posting that it was a very fun story to read. Yes, you should have posted this immediatley upon arriving at fleets!!!! I know if I had anything to do with being in or making Star Wars I would be telling everyone!! :D What else did you do with Harrison Ford???

[gpdesigner]

Nice going Harry, you have been under the camera quite a bit . . .
I found this page:
http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/ActorConnections.html

lots of good movies as well . . . .
http://www.harryfielder.co.uk/
T

[gmd3d]

Cool storie Aitch. and a great memory . I have to say I had a crush on Carrie Fisher at the time myself .. I was 7 or 8 ..

[julix]

Cool storie Aitch. and a great memory . I have to say I had a crush on Carrie Fisher at the time myself .. I was 7 or 8 ..

That was pretty young for a crush Taranis...............was it the buns in her hair???? ;)

[harryfielder]

Seems a funny old way for a man to get a living...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v422/harryfielder/starwarstcganewhope-127.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v422/harryfielder/Fielder_Harry.jpg

Aitch

[julix]

Aitch................

Is that a collectors card? I haven't seen many of the cards for any of the shows............

BTW, seems like a great way to make a living to me...... :)

[harryfielder]

Someone sent it to me to sign, first time I'd seen it,

Aitch,

[julix]

Someone sent it to me to sign, first time I'd seen it,

Aitch,



Very nice............us star wars fans can come up with some interesting things :D

[The 14th Colony]

If the final stage of conflict between the Jedi and the Sith is balance, then where does that leave things at the end of Return of the Jedi. It appears that the Sith has been utterly defeated, and of course Luke stands tall for the Jedi, but where is the balance? Shouldn't there still be the Darkside? Is it Leia?
I have not believed at all the balance of the Force had anything to with the numbers on each side. The Force requires peace and calm, and the Jedi must be at peace to use it fully. That is the balance, the balanced Force interecting with the balance of peace and calm in the Jedi him/herself. How many times did Obi-Wan and Yoda tell Luke to be calm and at peace in the original trilogy? When the Force itself is out of balance around the Jedi, even when calm and at peace the Jedi has trouble using it fully. He can still run and jump high and move objects with his mind, but he has more trouble seeing into the future and seeing through the Force to faraway events, places, people, ect. That is why Mace and Yoda agreed in AOTC that they were having difficulties using the Force in that manner...because it was so out of balance.

And the reason for the imbalance was due to the risng power of the Sith. The Sith use the Force with anger and hatred and evil, in opposition to the harmony that the Force wants to be in, and that throws the Force out of balance. So that is why Obi-Wan shouted over Anakin's fallen body, "You were the Chosen One! It was said you would destroy the Sith, not join them; bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!" Anakin brought balance to the Force when he overcame the darkside and destroyed Sidious. He should have done that sooner, before Sidious had absolute power, but by seducing him to the darkside, Sidious unknowingly postponed the inevitable fulfillment of prophesy from occuring for another 20+years.

[The 14th Colony]

I had questions about the dark side of the Force, some ideas, and a theory to explain it all. My essay concerns the potential for evil inherent in the hearts of all Jedi, and why almost all, if not all, are tempted at one time or another by the dark side. This was written about a year or more before AOTC, so I don't know if ROTS has altered any of the outcomes I wrote about, without rereading the thing. And since I'm too lazy to reread it, don't throw vegetables at me if I made any blunders.



The Dark Side Within


Is evil a mere symbolic figurative for the results of actions in opposition to what is acceptably good, or is evil a sentient ever-present, aware and intentful force which seeks to be glorified by the deeds of those who give in to its temptation? We normally consider the workings of the dark side of the Force evil, and the nature of the light side of the Force to be good. But what is good, and what is evil? We consider ‘good’ to be what is morally correct and socially acceptable, and the very definition of those actions which are in adherence of the written law. And evil, of course, is not only that which transgresses the laws of the galaxy, but also the actions and results of those who seek undeserved and selfish gain, and cause unauthorized theft or destruction to the property of others; and the infliction of pain, loss, and death to innocents. But beyond, or rather even before the laws of the Senate or individual societies take precedent, the nature of the Force itself defines and shows us what is good and just, and what is wrong and evil.

The Force exists in a tranquil state of existential harmony and fluid tranquility, and it requires all who call upon it to maintain a comparable state of calm logic and passive emotional balance. When this balance of the Force is in place, we feel peace and know goodness. The dark side of the Force, however, thrives on pandemonium and negativity, and reacts accordingly and favorably to emotions of anger, hate, and greed from those who then use the dark side to achieve such aims as we consider morally wrong. Thus, we can state that whatever the final outcome of our actions, the use of the light side is good and the use of the dark side is evil. And so, we can rightfully conclude that the light side itself is good and the dark side of the Force is evil.

That brings me to another question. When a being gives in to the dark side and becomes its willing subject, such as in the case of the dark cult of the Sith, is that person in control of the dark side, or the dark side in control of the person bound in darkness? Is the dark side a force of evil to be controlled by those of evil intent, or is the dark side a living and aware entity of evil form which then possesses and controls those with evil desires? Inherent in every heart is the potential to pursue evil and magnify the dark side of the Force, just as evil always seeks out the potential in each of us to embrace it.

Every being has the potential for evil. Every person is born with an equal amount of light side and dark side receptors; both sides call out to us seductively, and it takes a strong-willed person to choose the good side over the bad. That is how in some respects the dark side IS stronger than the light, because the evil potential within us constantly strives for recognition and gain, and the welcoming constant of the dark side around us is always at work to meet and react to the dark side potentiate within. The nature of the light side of the Force, however, is such that it chooses to remain passive and non-intrusive upon the will of those who do not welcome it. So while the light side, the good side, of the Force is, figuratively speaking, content to offer itself only to those who seek its goodness, the dark side is always at work around the passive ones striving to disrupt their calm and infringe its dark will upon their own. And when, sadly, the calm ones dwell on such negative emotions as fear, anger, greed, and hate, the dark side responds to the call and invades the good will of those it wishes more than anything else to corrupt. For only when the goodness within has been subdued and driven out can the dark side enjoy the negative peace and disharmony it symbolically enjoys.

One could ask, “Why is the dark side an ever-present danger to the Jedi mind and will, while the light side of the Force has no effect on agents of the Sith?” Well, I believe that it is the training that the Jedi commits himself to which gives him the power to maintain a separation between the temptation of the dark side on the outside and the dark side yearning from within. If, and sadly when, the two make contact and are allowed to fester and grow, the path of the Jedi is diverted and he must struggle to maintain the goodness within him and use it to overwhelm the inflamed evil nature before the dark side takes its figurative control and overwhelms the good.

This is why we are faced with dark side temptation as a constant, because the desires for both good and bad exist already in our souls, almost always at battle with one another for domination over the Jedi mind and soul. But with the Sith, however, the nature of the dark side is never willing to share dominion of the soul with a morally righteous goodness, and so the good from within must be defeated and driven out entirely, leaving no further remnant to be tempted by the light side of the Force. And this is why those who pursue the dark path of the Sith cannot return, for there is no good survived within them to remember their pasts and crave the light they left behind.

But what about Anakin Skywalker, who repented of the dark side, found redemption, and restored the balance of the Force in ROTJ? How is it that his son enabled him to remember the light he left behind and strive to return to it? As we all know, there were still some semblances of good remaining in Anakin. As powerful a Sith as Darth Vader was, he was not fully consumed by the dark side; for the will of the living Force had ensured that at least some good remained in order for the prophesy to be fulfilled. Which leads me to wonder, and seek to answer, was Anakin Skywalker, as Darth Vader, truly evil, or was he a pawn of the dark side under its possession and control? In reference to the evil nature hidden within us all, when Anakin Skywalker was seduced by the dark side of the Force, did the evil in him take control of the dark side of the Force, or did the dark side itself take control of the evil within him? I believe the latter, for if he had been destined to be purely evil and turned over entirely to the dark side, the living Force would not have left the good seeds buried deep in the soil of his soul, to be unearthed and watered later by his son’s example. I do not believe that Anakin Skywalker turned to evil completely of his own free will; I believe that evil turned on him and took control. The dark side gained its edge because he found some slight comfort in what it offered him, and before he could turn back and regain the righteous path, he had already gone too far and the dark side which at first had tempted him then took over and consumed him. Thus Darth Vader was not fully Sith, and not entirely owned by the dark side. The light side still had partial ownership of his soul, and still had plans for him in the future which Emperor Palpatine had tried to prevent from occurring.

Palpatine may have known of the Son of the Sun prophesy before he turned Anakin to the dark path, and he must have been trying to corrupt Anakin from the Jedi path to not only secure his own claim to absolute power but also to prevent Anakin Skywalker from being the one to fulfill the prophesy and bring balance back to the Force. He thought he had succeeded when he turned him to the Sith and used him to destroy the Jedi, but the will of the Force had other plans and in the end the good side of the Force prevailed; apparently proving that the light is always stronger than the dark, and the light side is good and good always wins in the end.

[gpdesigner]

you had some very interesting points in the prior post 14th, it puts a definate spin on my concept of the balance to the force. I like most were use to think as conflict being a numbers game and not really thinking about the spiritual aspect of being in and out of balance... this definately gives me something to ponder . . .
I tried reading your essay, got about 1/3 the way threw and have to bolt . .
I will get back to it tonight tho' you have some interesting ideas . . good reads

T

[julix]

This is good my friend and deep..............a lot to ponder :salute:

[The 14th Colony]

^^ ^ Thank you both.

[ernie90125]

To me it was always about numbers. The force was originally heavily ballanced in the favour of the Jedi.

Anakin reduced the force down to 2 Jedi, and 2 Sith....

Balance was achieved. As there can only be one master and one apprentice, and Anakin action´s caused the Jedi to be reduced to the same number...

The was further achieved by Ben Kenobi, who sacrificed himself to leave Luke/Yoda and Palpatine/Vader. Balance remained from the moment Anakin fulfilled his destiny until the end of the filmed Star Wars works... Thus the prophecy came true...